Skip to comments.FBI might drain Md. pond (it's now a tub with holes)
Posted on 05/12/2003 5:22:16 AM PDT by TrebleRebel
FBI might drain Md. pond as part of its anthrax probe Spores reportedly found during Dec., Jan. searches of waters near Frederick -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- By Scott Shane Sun Staff Originally published May 12, 2003
In addition, The Washington Post, citing anonymous sources, reported yesterday that divers retrieved a "clear box" with holes that could accommodate protective biological safety gloves, as well as vials wrapped in plastic.
Scientists working with dangerous microbes often use a "glove box," a sealed container made of glass or clear plastic with glove ports fixed in place to allow the researcher to manipulate equipment without being directly exposed to the germs. Such equipment ranges from laboratory-size units of the kind used at the Army's biodefense center at Fort Detrick in Frederick to small, inexpensive "glove bags" made of flexible plastic that can be disposed of after a single use.
One person who has heard a description of the box allegedly found in the pond said last night that it was not a commercially manufactured glove box or glove bag, but rather a plastic tub with two holes in it. The source, who has spoken to FBI officials, said some investigators believe it might have been part of jury-rigged equipment used to load the anthrax spores into the envelopes later sent to two U.S. senators and several media organizations. ------------------------
(Excerpt) Read more at sunspot.net ...
The way the letters were folded suggests a SYRINGE type insertion of the anthrax into the letters. But this could have been done in the woods, were any residue would quickly disperse.
It's still the refining process that gets me because it likely took many attempts to refine it to their specs. An Arab student who studied here briefly and who got the basics still comes to mind....Just like the pilots using our training schools. Saddam has the Chemical forte and Usama has the Structural forte. Patience....We have Ms. Anthrax. Saddam himself knew @#$% about Anthrax.
I wonder if there were any holes in the letters or envelopes which is why they sealed the edges which are not necessarily the weakest part of an envelope. (There's just a lot that they're not telling us.)
The statement above continues to puzzle me. We have heard, variously, that the Daschle letter anthrax was highly refined in a sophisticated centrifuge with specific additives that 'aerosolized' the anthrax, and yet there have been persistent stories that this was 'homegrown' anthrax.
My theory, which I've stated previously on FR threads, is that the vial passed to 9-11 hijacker Atta by the Iraqi agent in Prague contained the sophisticated anthrax. The hijackers were trained to use it to grow bigger batches, which would by necessity not have the additive or the centrifuged refineent.
Therefore you would have TWO different sample types, since they used the pure batch to send to Daschle.
This would also explain the evidence that the hijackers had rashes and skin conditions consistent with anthrax exposure, which evidence had emerged after 9-11 from 2 independent sources.
Well, actually, your recall has merged elements of both sources. There is a pharmacist who was approached by one of the hijackers seeking medicine, a week or so prior to 9-11. There was also a doctor who was visited by another of the hijackers, and the doctor observed unusual symptoms that, once the anthrax attacks occurred, he realized were consistent with anthrax exposure.
One report suggests that there were slits in the envelopes through which a hypodermic needle could have been inserted.
And, if someone were trying to set up Hatfill, they could have easily planted that evidence long after 9-11, then phoned in a 'tip' to the FBI.
1. the Anthrax came into the USA in syringes, ready for insertion into the envelopes OR
2. there was an Arab Student with his own little lab someplace here in the US, maybe out west like the unabomber. One of the big fires out west in 2001 got rid of the lab and any traces of the anthrax.
I still think there were 3 or 4 people involved in the whole scenario. This is not as simplistic as the unabomber.
Did the Hijackers have contact with the anthrax?? ATTA may even have had some on his person when they hit the towers. It would have burned up and left no trace. I think Atta was the only hijacker who knew about the anthrax and dead men tell no tales. But then there is Moussaoui. He was doing lousey on his "big jet" lessons but was certainly capable of flying a crop duster. Patience.
If you have been following this case, then you know that the discovery of a makeshift glove box, anthrax spores and vials "wrapped in plastic" in a pond in a search ostensibly inspired by a scene in Hatfill's unpublished bioterrorism novel is incredibly incriminating. If taken at face value, I'd say, skip the trial -- let's go straight to the execution. This great discovery is supposed to have happened four months ago. And yet, no charges, no grand jury. What does that suggest to you about the veracity of this story? I suggest that it's all about as veracious as the story that a CIA operative "earprinted" Saddam Hussein entering a bunker on March 20, and spied him being med-evaced from the scene with an oxygen mask over his face after the US rained forty cruise missiles down on the bunker a few hours later. In other words, it's a complete fabrication -- window dressing to avoid the impression that Saddam Hussein whacked the United States and got off with his life by virtue of his threat to use WMD on the American public.
The FBI has been criticized by some conservative commentators for seeming to ignore the possibility that foreign terrorists or Iraq might have been responsible for the anthrax mailings. Some suggested the case might be solved by the discovery of biological weapons facilities in Iraq, but little evidence of recent Iraqi bioweapons activity has turned up.
The purpose of Amerithrax is to convince us that the origin of those anthrax threats has been a big mystery to the United States. In fact, it never was a mystery. At the highest level, we always understood perfectly well that those threats came from the state which attacked us using terrorist proxies on September 11, 2001. See Woodward, Bush at War, p. 248, for the real story.
I just try to "think" how I would have to do this and the pre-loaded syringe concept works best. So did they have many pre-loaded (throw-away) (1 oz) syringes?? or did they extract it through the seal of a 1 oz vial and insert it into the envelopes??
Of course the evidence is all circumstantial and a lot of it may be just coincidential, but you have to admit that it's a pretty long, interesting and intriguing list that can't be easily dismissed. I don't recall anyone coming to the defense of Scott Ritter -- the white male, ex-military weapons inspector. HF sure has a lot of fans here.
I thought it was interesting that the WP story and the stories which picked it up focused on the trivial detail of the "new theory" about how the letters were loaded, rather than the apparent bombshell that the Feds found anthrax and a makeshift glove box four months ago in a pond based on a lead from Steve Hatfill's bioterrorism novel. And what I infer from that is that the story was crafted to plant a talking point in public consciousness, while somehow avoiding the question of why they haven't arrested this man or empanelled a grand jury to put him in the hot seat. This is a pattern we've seen again and again in this case. Remember "Greendale School"? Remember Hatfill's press conferences, and the photos of Hatfill's alleged girlfriend's alleged apartment allegedly turned over by FBI agents? Same modus operandi.
They suddenly swooped down on a junk dealer in Enterprise, Alabama and began to search every inch of his business including the pleasant job of digging up the septic tank.
I was watching this on TV with another grad student and we both laughed. It was so obvious listening to the owner that he was not the mad bomber that it was literally funny. Of course it turned out he had nothing to do with it and the only evidence was that the typewriter used to write some letter had once been in his junk.
Of course they have to check out all leads but this was ridiculous. The really do appear to be incompetent sometimes.
That's because this is just a made-up, BS talking point which is being disseminated right now to give a booster shot to the "domestic" theory of the anthrax. A few weeks ago, as the war in Iraq was winding down, there was another flurry of anthrax-related news stories with the same basic "take home" message. Supposedly, US Army scientists had discovered, after 18 months of trials, that the anthrax sent with the mail threats following 9/11 could have been weaponized simply by a private individual, without the resources of the state.
Now, ask yourself what might be the purpose of pushing this line now, in the wake of the resolution of the Iraq situation. I suggest the answer to that question is the same as the answer to the following: Why did the administration go to such lengths to sell us the story that we were personally targeting Saddam during the Iraq campaign? Who will be arrested first, Hatfill or Saddam? Or will neither of them ever be arrested?
They turned to the hot topic of anthrax. The powder in the letter mailed to Senator Daschle's office had been found to be potent, prompting officials to suggest its source was likely an expert capable of producing the bacteria in large amounts. Tenet said, "I think it's AQ" meaning al Qaeda. "I think there's a state sponsor involved. It's too well thought out, the powder's too well refined. It might be Iraq, it might be Russia, it might be a renegade scientist," perhaps from Iraq or Russia.
Scooter Libby, Cheney's chief of staff, said he also thought the anthrax attacks were state sponsored. "We've got to be careful on what we say." It was important not to lay it on anyone now. "If we say it's al Qaeda, a state sponsor may feel safe and then hit us thinking they will have a bye because we'll blame it on al Qaeda."
"I'm not going to talk about a state sponsor," Tenet assured them.
"It's good that we don't," said Cheney, "because we're not ready to do anything about it."
Bush at War, Bob Woodward, p. 248 (account of NSC meeting, 10/17/01)
Hardly. It's the administration that is BS-ing us. The FBI is just a tool. And if you want to understand why the administration is BS-ing us about the anthrax letters, it would be helpful to figure out why they BS-ed us about the "decapitation strikes."
Or, to put it another way, why is it that this man is smiling...
...and this man isn't?
The meeting DID occur, it's been confirmed by the Czech govt, check the story as its developed over time. The NY Times played a role in downplaying the authenticity of the meeting, with some FALSE reporting. Go figure.
Of course you could. And that's exactly what Hatfill and the boys at Amerithrax did. They made it up. It's kind of like the "earprint" story? Remember that? We were supposed to believe that the US personally targeted Saddam Hussein because a CIA operative used special "earprint technology" to ID him entering a bunker, then spied him being med-evaced away on a gurney with an oxygen mask over his face after we plopped a barrage of forty cruise missiles on the building. Remember that story? Guess what? The government has people whose jobs are making this sh*t up, and other people whose jobs are feeding it to the willing dupes in the press. And guess who sits at the bottom of this food chain?
Registered Works Database (Author Search)I would also recommend any journalists interested in the case call the FBI Washington Field Office, (202) 278-2000, and check if Pamela Lane and Jennifer Grant, the two FBI agents who Hatfill referenced in his August 2002 news conference, actually exist and can address Hatfill's claims that they mistreated his mysteriously shy girlfriend:
- Search For: HATFILL, STEVEN J., 1953-
Item 1 of 1
1. Registration Number: TXu-887-264 Title: Emergence. Description: 198 p. Claimant: acSteven J. Hatfill , 1953-, & acRoger Akers , 1947- Created: not given on appl.
Author on © Application: text: Steven J. Hatfill; revisions & some text: Roger Akers. 1/B
It is definitely not good to be the girlfriend of a person of interest. My girlfriend was locked inside an FBI car and hauled off to FBI headquarters and interrogated for hours, without once being told she has the right to leave any time she wished. Her requests for a lawyer were delayed and made difficult. Her purse, although not on the search warrant, was taken from her and its contents examined after the interrogation process while she was being driven back to her residence.Of course, the big score for a journalist who wants to make a name for himself with this story would be to find Hatfill and his girlfriend, and get them on the record, up close and personal, about their treatment by the FBI. I mean, either this fellow is guilty of five murders and is the author of a plot which terrorized the whole country, cost us $2 billion, and was used by Colin Powell to justify attacking Iraq, or he's been the victim of a monstrous smear campaign. The public has a right to know which it is. It might also be interesting to see what kind of lifestyle Hatfill now enjoys, having supposedly been without his $150K/yr from the DOJ for the last eight months. Perhaps this will all have a happy ending and Hatfill will be shamed into tieing the knot, seeing as how his girlyfriend has presumably been making up the $150K/yr shortfall in their joint income for all this time -- perhaps by selling some of those $3,000 paintings that grace the walls of her lavish, sensuously oriental, ultra-feminine apartment:
She was screamed at by FBI agents and told that the FBI had firm evidence that I had killed five innocent people. This was told to her by FBI agent Jennifer Grant and FBI agent Pamela Lane. Can you imagine that?
The FBI trumpets that I am not a suspect, and the woman I love is told the FBI -- told by the FBI that I am a murderer.
This is the life of a person of interest, Mr. Ashcroft. But that's not all. My girlfriend was told that she better take a polygraph examination and cooperate, or else. Her home checkbooks, computers, private papers and car were seized. As for her home, it was completely trashed, as is appropriate for the home of a girlfriend of a person of interest.
Some of her delicate pottery was smashed. The glass on a $3,000 painting was broken. This painting was wrapped in bubble wrap, by the way. Neatly stacked boxes awaiting shipment to her new home were ripped open, instead of opened with due regard to their contents.
Ladies and gentlemen, we have pictures of how FBI left this apartment, her apartment, which, at the time of the raid, was neatly prepared for a move to Louisiana, with all her belongings packed in nicely stacked boxes. This is one of the pictures.
I refuse to allow my girlfriend -- to this treatment, as the girlfriend of a person of interest. She is not here today. I love you. I will not state her name here. And I ask the news media, please, for common decency, if you know it, please leave her alone. She will not make a statement.
Have at it, boys!
I like the "drain the pond" angle. < /gag> Sounds like a way to burn up some budget and accrue overtime pay.
Is it safe to assume the alleged 'she' didn't move to Louisiana based on your comment? I wonder what 'she' looks like.
_Jim; sinkspur; & poohbah?
Her allegations, rather her "protrait" were important. She spoke privately with Senate staffers just before pressure was applied on the Justice Dept. In Hatfill's first speech he referred to her and her allegations - refuting allegations and querying why she would target him.