China set to field World's Most Powerful Tank

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | 12 April 2003 | Jon Dougherty

[swaimh]

China has made substantial advances in some areas of its ground and naval forces, including upgrades to tanks and armor, laser systems and anti-submarine warfare.

Jane's Defense Weekly, a respected Britain-based military journal, said the People's Liberation Army is set to deploy a new main battle tank, or MBT, that, when fielded, will become the most powerful of its kind in the world.

The magazine said the tank will feature a huge 152 mm main gun with an automatic loader that, when coupled with a new advanced aiming system, will enable the tank to fire on the move with high first-hit-first-kill capability.

The U.S. military's M1A2 Abrams MBT, which is generally considered one of the world's best tanks, features only a 120 mm M256 smoothbore gun, developed by Rheinmetall GmbH of Germany. It, too, can fire while in motion and has a high first-shot capability.

[Dataman]

Every time China announces some upgrade or advance in military technology, the whole world will be wondering how much of it was thanks to Chung Wong Foo Clinton.

[dirtboy]

We'll see how fast this tank is. Speed kills.

[Poohbah]

Why does this thing remind me of the German Maus?

[Yardstick]

The U.S. military's M1A2 Abrams MBT, which is generally considered one of the world's best tanks, features only a 120 mm M256 smoothbore gun

I never would have guessed this. I would have thought for sure the barrel would have been rifled. Is this typical of tank guns? How about the big guns on battleships -- are they rifled?

[Poohbah]

I never would have guessed this. I would have thought for sure the barrel would have been rifled. Is this typical of tank guns? How about the big guns on battleships -- are they rifled?

Battleship guns are rifled.

Tank guns are smoothbores, because spin lessens the accuracy of long-rod penetrators (they use fins for stabilization) and the penetration of HEAT rounds.

[aegiscg47]

Yes it has a 152mm gun, but the fire control, armor, and training is severely lacking. Couple that with the fact that they have no experience in large scale operational maneuvers and this article means very little.

[RightWhale]

I would have thought for sure the barrel would have been rifled

Just a guess: if such a large cannon were rifled, the torque on firing would bend something.

[AppyPappy]

Like the Russians, it all sounds good on paper.

[Robert A. Cook, PE]

Automatic loader, big shells, 3 man crew .....

Nice.

If the Chinese can keep it running. Maintained. Crewed. Electronics up and running.

(Har. Har. Har. Har.)

Wonder where they copied the (US-classified) armor?

(Not that Clinton would have sold them THAT technology, would he/she/they?)

[SJSAMPLE]

They went to a smoothebore (from the rifled 105mm cannon) for a variety of reasons;
1. Less fouling. Lands and grooves (rifling) attracts fouling which varies pressure and accuracy. It's also easier to clean a smoothebore. The 120mm will generally clean itself with the proper bore evacuator.
2. Ammunition variety. Just as with a rifle, grooves are cut for specific ranges of ammunition (projectile length), as the rate of the twist required to stabliize a round varies depending on the length (not weight) of the round. With the 120mm, spin is imparted by the projectile itself, so a wide variety of ammunition can be accomodated. This is probably the most important reason for the smoothebore.

[r9etb]

Heyyyyy, waitaminnit!!!!

Didn't the Russians just announce that they were developing the most powerful tank?

Who's next?!? Bhutan?

[appeal2]

My tank's bigger than your tank.

[grapeape]

The smoothbore design is not necessary anymore because of the type of ammo used. People could spend a whole day explaining it. No this is not the type of gun used on a Battleship. They are rifled also.

[Poohbah]

With the 120mm, spin is imparted by the projectile itself

Correction: the projectile STABILIZES itself with fins, not via spin (unlike the Clintons)

[MattinNJ]

After the Warthogs eat a column of these moving dumplings, will they be hungry an hour later?

[Larry Lucido]

Assuming the ChiComs could produce any number of these, do they have the capability to deploy and support them in any theatre of consequence? Perhaps they would be useful in an invasion of N. Korea.

[RightWhale]

a huge 152 mm main gun

What targets need such a huge gun? The crew will certainly enjoy firing this, and will probably be ready to fire it a second time in a few days.

[DarthVader]

The M1A2 Abrams has a gun mount which can accept the Rheinmetal 150 mm smoothbore which is superior to the Chinese 152 mm gun. It could turn the new Rice burner into scrap metal quick.

[bmwcyle]

[Blue Scourge]

The magazine said the tank will feature a huge 152 mm main gun with an automatic loader that, when coupled with a new advanced aiming system, will enable the tank to fire on the move with high first-hit-first-kill capability

Thus making it a big steel target for our LGB's and A-10's.

[Bringbackthedraft]

If I recall correctly, there is a tank on display at Ft Knox that was an American Monster that was made or developed at the end of WWII. It never got fielded. It had double wide tracks. All I can think of is what is going to carry those rounds for that Chinese tank and how big is its gas tank? No mater, soon its going to be obsolete. All I can think of is it must be made like some of the stuff they sold Saddam, our 30mm's will cut through them like butter. I wonder why they need that large of a tank, what are they planning?

[adaven]

After the Warthogs eat a column of these moving dumplings, will they be hungry an hour later?

Bwwahahahah!

[grapeape]

Just a little word to Russia. If china decides to grab Siberia, do you think that it is OK help them build their new tank? Just asking? Because, I would. Thanks for nothing Russia.

[AngryJawa]

Mmmmmmmmmm...Hogbait.

A-10. Go ugly early.

[mr.pink]

LOL...nice one.

[AngryJawa]

Mmmmmmmmmm...Hogbait.

A-10. Go ugly early.

[CIBvet]

Just continue buyin' that MADE IN CHINA stuff like the Free Traders and the BushBot's keep chanting.

Won't be long and the communist oligarchs will be ready with a reeeeal high-techy-type military to back up their many-million-man army .... and then our American flesh and blood will most certainly be given the opportunity to test it all out.

But by then, who's gonna remember how it all became possible for Communist China to move from Stone Age warfare to Cyber-Army in 20yrs ??

[Yardstick]

Fin stabilized. Never would have guessed it. Thanks.

[jriemer]

Sounds like a bigger target to me 8^)

[Conspiracy Guy]

Hope it's as good as their subs.

[Gabrielle Reilly]

I guess they are going to have a society filled with lonely, frustrated males as a result of their one child policy and the killing or adoption of so many little girls. War could help them solve the social imbalance in the near future. (satire)

[kidd]

I was thinking the same thing, but you said it better than I could have.

Tank superiority means nothing if you don't have control of the air.

[Dataman]

Couple that with the fact that they have no experience in large scale operational maneuvers and this article means very little.

I would think a Chinese-made fast tank would be worthless because the mtce vehicles required to follow it would be 5X the number required for an Abrams and every time a tread flew off or a plastic part broke, the thing would be disabled.

[Paleo Conservative]

The magazine said the tank will feature a huge 152 mm main gun with an automatic loader that, when coupled with a new advanced aiming system, will enable the tank to fire on the move with high first-hit-first-kill capability.

How much does this tank weigh? An Abrams weighs 70 tons. Does China have bridges that can handle the weight of their new tanks? I bet the logistics of this tank aren't too good. Anyway, what good is any tank if you don't have air superiority.

[Adams]

All your tanks are belong to us!

[SJSAMPLE]

Sorry. I saw that just after I wrote it, but it was too late to change it.

[Registered]

This guy just bought one at Radio Shack.

Those Chinese sure can build tanks!

[Paleo Conservative]

The magazine said the tank will feature a huge 152 mm main gun with an automatic loader that,

that will amputate the arms of tank crews.

[Yardstick]

Just a guess: if such a large cannon were rifled, the torque on firing would bend something.

That's an interesting angle. Maybe the gun's suspension can be lightened or simplified somewhat with a smoothbore, since there's no twisting force to deal with. Can you imagine how much torque those battleship guns must have to withstand? I've heard somewhere (history channel? imagination?) that some of the shells they fire weigh as much as Volkswagens -- that's a lot of mass to get spinning in just a tiny fraction of a second. Of course, those barrels are so massive and have so much inertia that it probably doesn't bother them much.

[ijcr]

It will never be of any use because it has chinks in the armor.

[gurkha]

smooth bore guns do not wear out as quickly as the rifled ones. They are also cheaper to produce. The fin stabalized projectiles are just as accurate as a rifled shot.

[metalcor]

I didn't see any specifications regarding the crushing capability of this tank's treads as running over civilians has been the number one requirement for Chicom tanks.
The larger gun would make it heavier and therefore more effective, I suppose.

[Bringbackthedraft]

Can you picture this tank firing a round and then tumbling back end over end? All I can visualize is 5000 troops trying to pick it up and putting it right again after each round. My uncle who fought in the 1939 Winter War against the Russians said that the Finns had a cannon without a carriage that worked that way.

[Calvin Locke]

...that large of a tank, what are they planning?

Factory Manager incentive program is based on the amount of tonnage, not working units.

Soviets slowly realized that it was not the way to run a factory. A chandelier, for example, when incentive produced
by weight, has some unwanted consequences.

[green team 1999]

bump

[Yardstick]

...the rate of the twist required to stabliize a round varies depending on the length (not weight) of the round.

Another factiod that I wouldn't have guessed but that makes sense now that I think about it. A longer round will have more of a tendency to tumble, I suppose.

With the 120mm, spin is imparted by the projectile itself, so a wide variety of ammunition can be accomodated. This is probably the most important reason for the smoothebore.

Yep, more flexible. That makes sense.

[DarthVader]

Sorry my bad! The M1A2 Abrams has a gun mount which can accept the Rheinmetal 140 mm smoothbore (not 150 mm) which is superior to the Chinese 152 mm gun. It could turn the new Rice burner into scrap metal quick.

[x1stcav]

152mm Smoothbore? I'm not certain but I think the Chicoms are at least 30 years behind the curve. Didn't we try this with an armored cav vehicle called a Sheridan in the 60's?

Of course I'm being facetious. As so many of you have pointed out just having the biggest gun doesn't mean you can be effective with it.

I was in the Fresno area on Thursday of last week and heard Victor Davis Hanson on a local talk show. The question put to him was what with the proliferation of technology, such as night vision goggles from the Russians, wouldn't our techological edge evaporate in future Iraq's?

His response was classic: The Russians had night vision equipment when they made their run into Chechnya. They proceeded to lose over a 100 tanks and suffered something like 10,000 casualties. His point being that simply haveing the latest tech without the operational doctrine and training to employ it, is worthless.

[Poohbah]

As so many of you have pointed out just having the biggest gun doesn't mean you can be effective with it.

As so many lads learn the hard way on Friday nights at the singles bar :o)