The Conservative-Libertarian clash: Values and the free society

Enter Stage Right ^ | May 12, 2003 | By W. James Antle III

[ValenB4]

Definately taking a risk when you ask for my judgment. Sometimes I'm afraid to ask for my own judgment. Gotta go to the store.

[bribriagain]

"I'll hazard a guess as to why you won't. -- Juvenile inablity"

Me thinks you protest too much. How childish.

[Cathryn Crawford]

Enjoy the store. I'm sure it'll enjoy you.

[ValenB4]

By the way, if I want to know who was the costar in Star Trek episode 439, or who did the pencil work for Superman vs. Batman comic #48, I'll ask Jonah Goldberg. He's not very useful for much else.

[bribriagain]

"It's not terribly surprising, as government is hardly the best place to look for examples of moral rectitude."

Government is only as good as the people it governs. Good government, like the Bush Administration, will not usurp our rights. If the people elect Shrillary for President, the people deserve the consequences.

[B Knotts]

So, you think that morals are taught more effectively by atheistic government than by the Catholic Church?

[B Knotts]

Yes, that's true, but...

Change in who governs is inevitable, and from time to time the wrong people will be in charge. I see limited government as a means of controlling the damage that can be done by people like the Clintons.

Obviously, we need governance; the question is how much?

[Cathryn Crawford]

You know how much I love your witty sarcasm.

[LizardQueen]

BTW, should there be laws against child molestors?

Yes, of course. In my view, gov's purpose is to protect us from one another, not to protect us from ourselves.

Therefore, laws against murder, child molestation, robbery, driving under the influence of drugs and alcohol etc. are entirely necessary. Laws such as ones against drug use and consensual sex in the privacy of ones home are not.

And there are plenty of things I believe are wrong and won't allow in my home even though I don't believe they should be illegal.

BTW, what was the point of your child molestation question? You think that because I'm a small-l libertarian I'm in favor of child abuse?

LQ

[bribriagain]

"So, you think that morals are taught more effectively by atheistic government than by the Catholic Church? "

No.

But no institution is perfect. When an institution goes astray, it needs to be checked. The recent problems with homosexuals in the Church is a prime example.

The leagal overthrow of the corrupt Clinton Administration shows our system works.

[bribriagain]

"Yes, of course. In my view, gov's purpose is to protect us from one another, not to protect us from ourselves."

Slippery slope, LQ. "Therefore, laws against murder, child molestation, robbery, driving under the influence of drugs and alcohol etc. are entirely necessary. Laws such as ones against drug use and consensual sex in the privacy of ones home are not."

OK, what about two lesbian mothers enticing their 12 year old "daughter" into an elicit trist inthe privacy of their home? "And there are plenty of things I believe are wrong and won't allow in my home even though I don't believe they should be illegal."

Good for you. But some things should be illegal. "BTW, what was the point of your child molestation question? You think that because I'm a small-l libertarian I'm in favor of child abuse? "

No, this is a conversation. Nothing more.

[LizardQueen]

OK, what about two lesbian mothers enticing their 12 year old "daughter" into an elicit trist inthe privacy of their home?

What slope? The 12 year old is a minor, minors can't consent, this is child molestation and illegal.

LQ

[bribriagain]

LQ, my point is that all things that take place in a persons home aren't necessarily legal and by extension, protected.

[Skywalk]

Ignore cinFLA

His hatred for Libertarians, whether small or big "L", is so overwhelming that he cannot process information or make reasonable or rational conclusions.

He keeps talking about NORML, but honestly who ISNT for reform of Marijuana laws? Only the most hard-core Drug Warriors are for the current insanity in that aspect of the law.

He refuses to recognize THE greatest libertarian think-thank, Cato, as libertarian.

He's also a disruptor on any thread remotely tied to libertarianism, and doesn't substantively address anything in the topic.

GET A LIFE, CinFLA.

[tdadams]

I am a conservative-libertarian hybrid. I happen to believe both in the traditional understanding of marriage and that sodomy, prostitution and private adult consensual sex generally should be legal. I believe society can and should, through law as well as custom, affirm the two-parent, marriage-based family as the ideal without criminalizing other arrangements and throwing people who live differently in jail.

This is a perfectly reasonable position that balances the interests of everyone fairly, but to many troglodyte-conservatives here on FR, this stance is utter heresy.

[tdadams]

Conservatives and libertarians are often allied against common enemies: the growth of the redistributive state, the assault on private property, the denigration of the free market and various socialist plots large and small.

And yet, so many of FR's vituperative anti-libertarians still insist that libertarians are liberals and/or closet Democrats.

[Just another Joe]

Bump for a later read.

[RJCogburn]

Reviewing your subsequent posts and posts directed to you, I'll have to amend my prior comments. You are not doing a good, or even excellent imitation.

You really are ignorant of what a libertarian is.

Really.

[Katya]

"I like "classical liberal", although it sometimes causes confusion.

I love the confusion it creates... I am surrounded by people on the left, and usually announce that I am the only true liberal in the group. I also find it useful as a political ice breaker.

I've found that my Libertarianism isn't as offensive to the left as say, the idea that I vote pragmatically. ( in other words , I probably vote for the republican in most cases). I've been able to introduce subjects that are caustic to them, (2nd amendment etc) and they are at least willing to entertain the logic behind my arguments.

[Katya]

"Libertarians are conservatives without morals or values."

That's just such an idiotic statment....I don't know where to start.

This is what I dislike about the political label "conservative". It's meaning is completely transient. In the former Soviet Republics a conservative would be a..........

Communist!

In that case you're right....I don't have the morals or values of a Russian communist.