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Useful Quotes: (for banning handguns)
Handgun-Free America ^

Posted on 05/15/2003 3:22:25 PM PDT by Drew68

Useful Quotes:

"If I were writing the Bill of Rights now there wouldn't be any such thing as the Second Amendment... This has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word 'fraud', on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime. The real purpose of the Second Amendment was to ensure that state armies - the militia - would be maintained for the defense of the state.  The very language of the Second Amendment refutes any argument that it was intended to guarantee every citizen an unfettered right to any kink of weapon he or she desires."
             - Warren Burger, former U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice, Parade Magazine, 1/14/90

 
The following quotes have been gathered by Handgun-Free America to help researchers find more information about how others view guns in America.  Listing of these quotes in no way infers that HFA endorses these quotes or the individuals and organizations who have said them.
 

Political Leaders:

"I believe all handguns should be abolished."  - Sen. John Chafee, 1/9/97.

"If it were up to me, We'd ban them all."  - Rep. Mel Reynolds, CNN Crossfire, 12/9/93.

"Ultimately, I would like to see the manufacture and possession of handguns banned except for military and police use." - Rep. Bobby Rush, Chicago Tribune, 12/5/99.

"We need much stricter gun control, and eventually we should bar the ownership of handguns except in a few cases."  - Rep. William Clay (D-MO), St. Louis Dispatch, 5/8/93.

"If it was up to me, no one but law enforcement officers would own hand guns."  - Chicago Mayor Richard Daley, 11/13/98.

"We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights or ordinary Americans to own firearms ... that we are unable to think about reality."  - President Bill Clinton, March 1, 1993.

"We are going to hammer guns on the anvil of relentless legislative strategy! We're going to beat guns into submission!"  - Representative Chuck Shumer, 12/8/93.

"Mr. President, what is going on in this country?  Does going to school mean exposure to handguns and to death?  As you know, my position is we should ban all handguns, get rid of them, no manufacture, no sale, no importation, no transportation, no possession of a handgun.  There are 66 million handguns in the United States of America today, with 2 million being added every year."  - Senator John H. Chafee, (R-RI), 6/11/92.

"Mr. speaker, we must take swift and strong action if we are to rescue the next generation from the rising of tide armed violence. That is why today I am introducing the Handgun Control Act of 1992. This legislation would outlaw the possession, importation, transfer or manufacture of a handgun except for use by public agencies, individuals who can demonstrate to their local police chief that they need a gun because of threat to their life or the life of a family member, licensed guard services, licensed pistol clubs which keep the weapons securely on premises, licensed manufacturers and licensed gun dealers."  - Rep. Stephen J. Solarz, 8/12/92.

"Indeed, that the Second Amendment poses no barrier to strong gun laws is perhaps the most well-settled proposition in American constitutional law.  Yet the incantation of this phantom right continues to pervade Congressional debate."  - Erwin N. Griswold, Solicitor General, Nixon Administration (Washington Post, 11/4/90)

Journalists/Media:

"My personal opinion is that guns kill people."  - Sam Donaldson, ABC News Primetime Live, 2/22/90.

"We will never fully solve our nation's horrific problem of gun violence unless we ban the manufacture and sale of handguns and semi-automatic assault weapons."  - USA Today, Dec. 29, 1993.

"Twenty years ago, I asked Richard Nixon what he thought of gun control. His on-the-record reply: 'Guns are an abomination.' Free from fear of gun owners' retaliation at the polls, he favored making handguns illegal and requiring licenses for hunting rifles. - William Safire, LA Daily News, 6/15/99.

"Jonesboro, Arkansas; Edinboro, Pennsylvania; Fayetteville, Tennessee; Springfield, Oregon -- all towns that live in infamy because a troubled teenager with access to a deadly gun went on a killing spree.  There are no panaceas to stop such violence but there are too many guns and too many teenagers have too easy access to them.  It is an outrage to deny that as too many politicians in the back pocket of the National Rifle Association are too wont to do."  - CNN Capital Gang, 5/23/98.

"Ultimately, a civilized society must disarm its citizenry if it is to have a modicum of domestic tranquility of the kind enjoyed by sister democracies such as Canada and Britain.  Given the frontier history and individualist ideology of the United States, however, this will not come easily."  - Charles Krauthammer, columnist, "Disarm the Citizenry".

"We are inclined to think that every firearm in the hands of anyone who is not a law enforcement officer constitutes an incitement to violence.  Let's come to our senses before the whole country starts shooting itself up on all its Main Streets in a delirious kind of High Noon."  - Washington Post, 8/19/65.

"By a curiosity of evolution, every human skull harbors a prehistoric vestige: a reptilian brain.  This atavism, like a hand grenade cushioned in the more civilized surrounding cortex, is the dark hive where many of mankind's primitive impulses originate.  To go partners with that throwback, Americans have carried out of their own history another curiosity that evolution forgot to discard as the country changed from a sparsely populated, underpoliced agrarian society to a modern industrial civilization.  That vestige is the gun - most notoriously the handgun, an anachronistic tool still much in use."  - Time, 4/13/81.

"As you probably know by now, Time's editors, in the April 13 issue, took a strong position in support of an outright ban on handguns for private use."  - Time Magazine, Letter to NRA, 4/24/81.

"The only way to discourage the gun culture is to remove the guns from the hands and shoulders of people who are not in the law enforcement business."  - New York Times, 9/24/75.

"Why should America adopt a policy of near-zero tolerance for private gun ownership?  Because it's the only alternative to the present insanity.  Without both strict limits on access to new weapons and aggressive efforts to reduce the supply of existing weapons, no one can be safer."  - Editorial, Los Angeles Times, 12/28/93.

"No presidential candidate has yet come out for the most effective proposal to check the terror of gunfire: a ban on the general sale, manufacture and ownership of handguns as well as assault-style weapons."  - Guns Along the Campaign Trail, Washington Post, 7/19/99.

"There is no reason for anyone in the country, for anyone except a police officer or a military person, to buy, to own, to have, to use, a handgun.  I used to think handguns could be controlled by laws about registration, by laws requiring waiting periods for purchasers, by laws making sellers check out the past of buyers.  I think the only way to control handgun use in this country is to prohibit the guns."  - Michael Gartner, President, NBC News, in USA Today, 1/16/92.

"Whatever is being proposed is way too namby-pamby.  I mean, for example, we're talking about limiting people to one gun purchase, or handgun purchase a month.  Why not just ban the ownership of handguns when nobody needs one?  Why not just ban semi-automatic rifles?  Nobody needs one."  - Jack E. White, Time national correspondent, Washington Times, 5/8/99.

"The great majority of Americans are saying they favor gun control when they really mean gun banishment ... I think the country has long been ready to restrict the use of guns, except for hunting rifles and shotguns, and I think we're prepared to get rid of the damned things entirely - the handguns, the semis and the automatics."  - Roger Rosenblatt, Time Magazine, 8/9/99.

"I don't understand why we're piddling around.  We should talk about getting rid of guns in this country."  - Juan Williams, Washington Post, on Fox News Sunday, 5/23/99.

"Repealing the Second Amendment is no cause for the faint-hearted, but it remains the only way for liberals to trigger an honest debate on the future of our bullet-plagued society.  So what if anti-gun advocates have to devote the next 15-20 years to the struggle?  The cause is worth the political pain.  Failing to take bold action condemns all of us to spend our lives cringing in terror every time we hear a car backfire."  - Walter Shapiro, USA Today columnist, 9/17/99.

"Get rid of the guns.  We had the Second Amendment that said you have the right to bear arms.  I haven't seen the British really coming by my house looking for it.  And besides, the right to bear arms is not an absolute right anyway, as New York's Sullivan Law proves.  We talk about ourselves as a violent society, and some of that is right and some of it is claptrap.  But I think if you took away the guns, and I mean really take away the guns, not what Congress is doing now, you would see that violent society diminish considerably."  - Roger Rosenblatt, PBS NewsHour essayist, 5/20/99.

Organizations:

"We urge passage of federal legislation - and meanwhile, in its absence, the partial remedy of state law - to prohibit, with few and narrowly drawn exceptions, the private ownership and possession of handguns, much the way existing laws prohibit machine guns, grenades and cannons."  - ACLU Board of Directors, adopted September, 1976.

"The Union agrees with the Supreme Court's longstanding interpretation of the Second Amendment that the individual's right to keep and bear arms applies only to the preservation or efficiency of a 'well-regulated militia'.  Except for lawful police and military purposes, the possession of weapons by individuals is not constitutionally protected."  - ACLU policy statement #47 (1986).

"The League, therefore, supports a ban on the further manufacture, sale, transportation and importation for private ownership of handguns and their parts."  - League of Women Voters of Illinois Gun Control Position-in-Brief.

"One tenet of the National Rifle Association's faith has always been that handgun controls do little to stop criminals from obtaining handguns.  For once, the NRA is right and America's leading handgun control organization is wrong.  Criminals don't buy handguns in gun stores.  That's why they are criminals."  - Josh Sugarman, Executive Director, Violence Policy Center, June 1987.

"I am one who believes that as a first step the U.S. should move expeditiously to disarm the civilian population, other than the police and security officers, of all handguns, pistols and revolvers ... no one should have a right to anonymous ownership or use of a gun."  - Dean Morris, Director, LEAA.

"Firearms are currently exempt from the health and safety laws that apply to every other consumer product in America, from toasters to teddy bears.  Applying those same standards to guns is the real key to reducing firearm death and injury in America.  Under these standards, handguns would be banned because of their high risk and low utility."  - Violence Policy Center, 3/16/99.

Others:

"[T]he Second Amendment does not confer an individual right to own or possess arms." - U.S. 9th District Court of Appeals, Silveira v Lockyer, 12/5/02

"[The] National Rifle Association is always arguing that the Second Amendment determines the right to bear arms.  But I think it really is the people's right to bear arms in a militia.  The NRA thinks it protects their right to have Teflon-coated bullets.  But that's not the original understanding.  - Robert H. Bork, former Federal Appeals Court Judge (Distinguished Lecture Series, UC Irvine, 3/14/89)

"Since the Second Amendment ... applies only to the right of the State to maintain a militia and not to the individual's right to bear arms, there can be no serious claim to any express constitutional right to possess a firearm."  - U.S. v Warin (6th Circuit, 1976)

"There is no reason why all pistols should not be barred to everyone except the police." - Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall, Adams v. Williams, 1972 (dissent)

"Until America, door to door, takes every handgun, this is what you're gonna have.  It's pathetic.  It really is pathetic.  It's sad.  We're living in the Dark Ages."  - Sylvester Stallone.

"To me, the only reason for guns in civilian hands is for sporting purposes."  - Sarah Brady, Tampa Tribune, 10/21/93.

"My own view on gun control is simple.  I hate guns and I cannot imagine why anyone would want to own one.  If I had my way, guns for sport would be registered, and all other guns, would be banned."  - Deborah Prothrow-Stith, Dean of the Harvard School of Public Health.

"Mutual protection should be the aim of citizens, not individual self-protection.  Until we are willing to outlaw the very existence or manufacture of civilian handguns we have no right to call ourselves citizens or consider our behavior even minimally civil."  - Garry Wills, historian/writer, John Lennon's war, Chi. Sun-times, 12/12/80.

"We are beyond the stage of restrictive licensing and uniform laws.  We are at the point in time and terror when nothing short of a strong uniform policy of domestic disarmament will alleviate the danger which is crystal clear and perilously present.  Let us take the guns away from the people.  Exemptions should be limited to the military, the police and those licensed for good and sufficient reasons."  - Patrick V. Murphy, NYC Police Commissioner, 12/7/70.

"I would have preferred to invent something which helps people and makes life easier for farmers. A lawnmower, for example."  - Mikhail Kalashnikov, 82, inventor of the Kalashnikov assault rifle.

"Sorry, it's 1999.  We have had enough as a nation.  You are not allowed to own a gun, and if you do own a gun I think you should go to prison."  - Rosie O'Donnell, talk show host.

"I believe, very strongly, that handguns should be banned and that there should be stringent, effective control of other firearms."  - William Buchmeyer, Judge, Patterson v Gesellschaft, 1206 F. Supp. 1206, 1216 (N.D. Tex. 1985).

"Guns are evil." - Natalie Merchant, 10,000 Maniacs Concert, 1993.

"The existence of a gun factory is an absurd.  That's the interruption of Mankind's evolution.  It interrupts the evolution of Mankind.  It's an absurd Man making firearms."  - Helio Luz, former Chief of Police, Rio de Janeiro, 3/17/1997.

"Guns and violence -- an American dyad. The US has more firearms per capita in civilian hands than any other country in the world. Those opposing gun control say, "Guns don't kill people, people do." But people with guns kill and maim other people MORE OFTEN, MORE QUICKLY, and MORE EFFICIENTLY than people using any other means. To me and just about every pediatrician I know, the answer to preventing children using or being shot by guns is to KEEP CHILDREN AND GUNS APART." - Dr. Marilyn Heins, M.D. F.A.A.P.

"I have the right, when navigating the streets of Philadelphia - thoroughfares supported by my taxes - to drive, walk, or ride Septa unmolested by criminals carrying handguns. The streets of Philadelphia belong to the citizens, and we would all be safer if handguns were not allowed in these public spaces. The collective rights of the community to live free of widespread handgun violence outweighs the rights of individuals to carry defensive handguns against unknown enemies. The idea that disallowing handguns in public spaces will lead to a generalized loss of freedom is a fiction created by the gun industry out of economic necessity." - Kip Leitner, Philadelphia Enquirer, 2/26/99

 

If there are additional quotes you would like to add to this page, please e-mail us at info@handgunfree.org.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; idiots
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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I found this site while perusing another thread: National Survey Results: Columbine Generation Fears Gun Violence on Campuses and have found myself entertained by it.

Here is a selection of quotes from gun-grabbers that I found amusing --particularly since most of these folks have since been rendered powerless.

Hope this hasn't been posted before.

Enjoy!

and check out the rest of their site!

1 posted on 05/15/2003 3:22:25 PM PDT by Drew68
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To: Drew68
"If it were up to me, We'd ban them all." - Rep. Mel Reynolds, CNN Crossfire, 12/9/93.

"I hit the lotto!" -- Rep. Mel Reynolds, upon learning that his underage girlfriend was bringing over her Catholic-Schoolgirl friend for a threesome.
2 posted on 05/15/2003 3:25:00 PM PDT by MediaMole
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To: *bang_list
bump!
3 posted on 05/15/2003 3:25:37 PM PDT by annyokie (provacative yet educational reading alert)
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To: Drew68
And now the only quote that matters:

"A well-regulated milita, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Amendment II, United States Constitution

4 posted on 05/15/2003 3:25:54 PM PDT by IronJack
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To: Drew68
When handguns are banned All Your Base really will belong to Them.
5 posted on 05/15/2003 3:29:00 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny
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To: MediaMole
"I hit the lotto!"

I forgot all about that!!! I knew I recognized his name LOL!!!

6 posted on 05/15/2003 3:29:38 PM PDT by Drew68
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To: IronJack
And now the only quote that matters:

If you go to their website (which I recommend for it is highly amusing) they repeat the old, tired song-and-dance about how "militia" means Nat'l Guard and not individuals.

yawn...

7 posted on 05/15/2003 3:31:54 PM PDT by Drew68
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To: Drew68
Excellent resource Drew . This is a bookmark .
8 posted on 05/15/2003 3:32:38 PM PDT by Ben Bolt
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To: IronJack
Someone who was taking an anti-gun position once pointed out that the language of the second ammendment calls for a well-regulated milita, and that pro gun people always gloss over that terminology, meaning, to him, that it was never intended for anyone to get any gun at any time and that restrictive laws were therefore constitutional. What is the position of the NRA on that opinion? I'm not taking up an anti-gun position but rather playing devil's advocate here. I thought it was a good point but wonder what some counter arguments are?
9 posted on 05/15/2003 3:35:21 PM PDT by drew
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To: Drew68
mi·li·tia ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-lsh) n. An army composed of ordinary citizens rather than professional soldiers.

Works for me. I am an army of one belonging to an army of many.

10 posted on 05/15/2003 3:39:14 PM PDT by Normal4me
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To: drew
You've been handed the red herring argument. Notice that the amendment doesn't read "the right of the militia to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." So whatever the "well-regulated militia" clause means, it in no way confers or limits the right of THE PEOPLE to keep and bear arms.

In other words, it's irrelevant.

11 posted on 05/15/2003 3:40:53 PM PDT by IronJack
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To: Drew68
And we thought the French were surrender monkeys.

America's Fifth Column ... watch Steve Emerson/PBS documentary JIHAD! In America
Download 8Mb File Here (Requires RealPlayer)

Who is Steve Emerson?

12 posted on 05/15/2003 3:41:31 PM PDT by JCG
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To: drew
"Well-regulated" doesn't mean that the ownership of guns should be regulated in the sense of being restricted. It means to "put or maintain in order."
13 posted on 05/15/2003 3:42:02 PM PDT by Reactionary
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To: drew
I thought it was a good point but wonder what some counter arguments are?

All the Bill of Rights pertain to INDIVIDUAL rights. That is why they are there in the first place. The First Amendment does not only pertain to well-regulated newspaper publishers.

In a way, I wish the USSC would just take a position on this and settle it once and for all.

Although, if the USSC declares it a "collective" right and not an "individual" right, I'm still not giving up my guns. Free men may keep guns regardless of what some black-robed judges say.

14 posted on 05/15/2003 3:42:40 PM PDT by Drew68
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To: drew
But... after the comma... it says "the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

Note that it doesn't say "the right of a militia to keep...". Every other Amendment in the Bill of Rights which uses the term "people" calls for a right conferred on an individual, not a collective.

SCR

15 posted on 05/15/2003 3:43:26 PM PDT by So Cal Rocket (Free Miguel and Priscilla!)
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To: Drew68
"If I were writing the Bill of Rights now there wouldn't be any such thing as the Second Amendment... This has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word 'fraud', on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime. The real purpose of the Second Amendment was to ensure that state armies - the militia - would be maintained for the defense of the state.  The very language of the Second Amendment refutes any argument that it was intended to guarantee every citizen an unfettered right to any kink of weapon he or she desires."
             - Warren Burger, former U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice, Parade Magazine, 1/14/90

 

"The project of disciplining all the militia of the United
States is as futile as it would be injurious, if it were capable of
being carried into execution. A tolerable expertness in military
movements is a business that requires time and practice. It is not
a day, or even a week, that will suffice for the attainment of it.
To oblige the great body of the yeomanry, and of the other classes
of the citizens, to be under arms for the purpose of going through
military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to
acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the
character of a well-regulated militia, would be a real grievance to
the people, and a serious public inconvenience and loss. It would
form an annual deduction from the productive labor of the country,
to an amount which, calculating upon the present numbers of the
people, would not fall far short of the whole expense of the civil
establishments of all the States. To attempt a thing which would
abridge the mass of labor and industry to so considerable an extent,
would be unwise: and the experiment, if made, could not succeed,
because it would not long be endured. Little more can reasonably be
aimed at, with respect to the people at large, than to have them
properly armed and equipped"

    -Alexander Hamilton, Principal architect of the justice system in which Warren Burger was employed, FEDERALIST No. 29, 01/10/1788

 

EAT IT, WARREN.

16 posted on 05/15/2003 3:45:58 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny
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To: drew
Okay...the First Amendment has long been interpreted as this..."the People" equals individuals...But when looking at the 2nd Amendment, the grabbers and liberals ingore the statement of "the People" and try to infer "State".
17 posted on 05/15/2003 3:48:13 PM PDT by IYAS9YAS (Go Fast, Turn Left!)
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To: drew
"Well-regulated" meant to the people who wrote it, that the militia should be drilled. Militias were broadly classed as regulated, meaning organized and drilling, and unregulated, meaning essentially every male citizen between 18 and 40. Among other details, a "regulated" militia could be required to keep a stipulated amount of ammunition and a specific type of firearm to hand; an unregulated one could only be directed to show up.

I think the emphasis being on the independent clause meant that the right of the people to keep and bear arms was a necessary condition for them to form a well-regulated militia, and that infringing it would ultimately infringe on their society's ability to defend itself. Stating that the dependent clause, the "militia" clause, is the main emphasis means that the amendment does not apply to "the people" per se, but only those in the militia, which would make it truly unique in the Bill of Rights. To state either one and then hold that it only applies to sporting weapons is simply weird.

18 posted on 05/15/2003 3:48:36 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Drew68
The very language of the Second Amendment refutes any argument that it was intended to guarantee every citizen an unfettered right to any kink of weapon he or she desires."

The very language of the Second Amendment refutes Justice Burger's claim:

...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

I'm people. We are all people. Why is that language unclear?

19 posted on 05/15/2003 3:49:23 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts ()
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To: Drew68
Amendment II, United States Constitution
"A well-regulated milita, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

tired song-and-dance about how "militia" means Nat'l Guard and not individuals.

When the 2nd amendment was written, there was no such thing as a National Guard.

Militia is defined as:

1.An army composed of ordinary citizens rather than professional soldiers.
2.A military force that is not part of a regular army and is subject to call for service in an emergency.
3.The whole body of physically fit civilians eligible by law for military service.

20 posted on 05/15/2003 3:52:04 PM PDT by chainsaw
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To: Drew68
"Until America, door to door, takes every handgun, this is what you're gonna have. It's pathetic. It really is pathetic. It's sad. We're living in the Dark Ages." - Sylvester Stallone.

Yo! Sly, you pathetic piece of cr@p. What's sad to me is you appearing in all those movies glorifying violence and the often inappropriate use of firearms lecturing me.

21 posted on 05/15/2003 3:52:47 PM PDT by TC Rider (The United States Constitution 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: Drew68
What is even funnier about all of these dorks is that they have no idea what the founding fathers wanted. About 99% of these jerks families came over on the boat to Ellis Island begging for citizenship here because they were oppressed in another country and now they are trying to oppress the citizens of the very country that gave them the right to not be oppressed. I am sure their grand parents or great grand parents would spit in their face if they heard the retarded rhetoric coming from their mouths.
22 posted on 05/15/2003 3:53:43 PM PDT by samuel_adams_us
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To: Psycho_Bunny
Warren was a closet commie!
23 posted on 05/15/2003 3:54:25 PM PDT by samuel_adams_us
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To: IronJack
I just saw on TV that 150,000 Troops were not enough to police Iraq, comparing it to the size of the State of
California. Here at home, on our shores, we have been attacked by foreign and domestic. With all of our Military thinly spread throughout the world, it is my opinion, we better oppose all gun-grabbers. After all, we may need our weapons to perform homeland security.
24 posted on 05/15/2003 3:56:19 PM PDT by John Doe #1 (DAV Life Member)
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To: Drew68
"A well-regulated milita, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Only by the most tortured of definitions, and taking these simple words out of the context of the time in which they were written, could one conclude that they referred to a "national guard" or other "army" of the state.

To do so means that the Founding Fathers went to the trouble of writing a special amendment that would insure that the right of an army to bear arms shall not be infringed.

To paraphrase Gallagher, "Were they that f***ing stupid?"

25 posted on 05/15/2003 3:58:51 PM PDT by Dratlatl
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To: Drew68
Whew, I followed a few of those links. Heady stuff. Interesting that they pulled the page comparing handguns usage between US and the UK.

Now I gotta go buy a new gun.

26 posted on 05/15/2003 4:06:32 PM PDT by TC Rider (The United States Constitution 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: Drew68
If the founding fathers were writing the bill of rights today, I'm certain that we would find the following: "Any individual whose housing, food or medical treatment is subsidized by the state or whose children is supported by allowances provided by the state shall be prohibited from voting in any local, state or federal election." Or something to that effect....
27 posted on 05/15/2003 4:08:01 PM PDT by Imagine
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To: TC Rider
Interesting that they pulled the page comparing handguns usage between US and the UK.

It couldn't possibly be because UK gun violence is skyrocketing following the 1997 confiscatory ban on handguns?

28 posted on 05/15/2003 4:12:20 PM PDT by Drew68
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To: Imagine
"Any individual whose housing, food or medical treatment is subsidized by the state or whose children is supported by allowances provided by the state shall be prohibited from voting in any local, state or federal election." Or something to that effect....

Disenfranchising soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines, and their families? Isn't that what Gore tried to do lately?

29 posted on 05/15/2003 4:12:35 PM PDT by Chemist_Geek ("Drill, R&D, and conserve" should be our watchwords! Energy independence for America!)
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To: Chemist_Geek
Addendum: "excepting those that may be in the employment of the several military services" Or something to that effect -- you get my drift don't you?????
30 posted on 05/15/2003 4:24:29 PM PDT by Imagine
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To: Drew68
"Ultimately, a civilized society must disarm its citizenry if it is to have a modicum of domestic tranquility of the kind enjoyed by sister democracies such as Canada and Britain. Given the frontier history and individualist ideology of the United States, however, this will not come easily." - Charles Krauthammer, columnist, "Disarm the Citizenry".

This to me is a shocking quote from him. Makes me want to send the NRA some more money, and I don't even own a gun.

And one other thing; 'not come easily' is a huge understatement. The Second is the guarantor of them all, and she won't fall without copious bloodshed.

31 posted on 05/15/2003 4:32:17 PM PDT by AlbionGirl (A kite flies highest against the wind, not with it. - Winston Churchill)
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To: Chemist_Geek
Disenfranchising soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines, and their families?

That is different. Soldiers *earn* their keep, unlike welfare recipients. Free housing, etc. for the military is not really free as it is offered in exchanged for the paltry sums that soldiers are paid.

32 posted on 05/15/2003 4:35:23 PM PDT by Drew68
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To: Billthedrill
Put nicely.
33 posted on 05/15/2003 4:36:03 PM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: Chemist_Geek
"Any individual whose housing, food or medical treatment is subsidized by the state or whose children is supported by allowances provided by the state shall be prohibited from voting in any local, state or federal election." Or something to that effect....

Add, "except those provided in exchange for services rendered." Then raise the salaries of our miliary members so that they no longer need foodstamps and subsidized housing (over and above their housing allowance and salary)

34 posted on 05/15/2003 4:39:50 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: John Doe #1
we may need our weapons to perform homeland security.

At least half of the threat to our homeland comes from our own government, the very people who are trying to disarm us.

35 posted on 05/15/2003 4:40:14 PM PDT by IronJack
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To: AlbionGirl
The Second is the guarantor of them all, and she won't fall without copious bloodshed.

Yep!

If congress passed a law tomorrow requiring every gun owner to surrender their firearms --and-- if 90% of the population complied, there would still be 6+ million gun owners owning 20+ million firearms.

In reality, it would be unlikely if even 50% complied to such an order.

The effort to seize guns from the non-compliant would be a bloody undertaking indeed!

36 posted on 05/15/2003 4:40:40 PM PDT by Drew68
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To: Imagine
Addendum: "excepting those that may be in the employment of the several military services" Or something to that effect -- you get my drift don't you?????

Yeah, but one has to be careful when drafting the proposal! *grin*

I think we all agree that while Servicemembers ought to be franchised, and handout recipients ought not to be, what about the civilian employees of government? They surely have an incentive to vote for higher taxes and bigger government, just like the handout recipients...

37 posted on 05/15/2003 4:51:53 PM PDT by Chemist_Geek ("Drill, R&D, and conserve" should be our watchwords! Energy independence for America!)
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To: chainsaw
Militia is defined as:

1.An army composed of ordinary citizens rather than professional soldiers.
2.A military force that is not part of a regular army and is subject to call for service in an emergency.
3.The whole body of physically fit civilians eligible by law for military service.

And "well regulated" does not mean regulated by government, but rather properly functioning. I put "well regulated" and "appetite" into a search engine looking for a quote from an old version of the Oxforde English dictionary. Instead I found lots of medical and vetenary articles speaking of "well regulated" cats, dogs , diabetes, etc. Here is one such article, which speaks of a "well regulated" household, which from the context clearly means properly or smoothly functioning.

I knew the term was quite common up through the mid 1800s, but had no idea it was still in common use in some circles having nothing do with guns or militias or even politics. Additional one still speaks of a clock or a gun being properly regulated, in the first case meaning that it keeps good time, and in the second meaning that it shoots where it's supposed to, or when refering to double barrelled weapons, as it's most commonly used, that the barrells shoot to the same point, like they are supposed. to.

Thus a "well-regulated" militia is merely one that works properly.

38 posted on 05/15/2003 4:53:19 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: Billthedrill
To state either one and then hold that it only applies to sporting weapons is simply weird.

It is not only weird, it is absurd in the extreme.

39 posted on 05/15/2003 5:09:31 PM PDT by mc5cents
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To: Drew68
What a bunch of garbage. Notice how most of the quotes are from the late 90's. Hey jackasses! Couldn't find anything from the founding fathers to back you up?! HUH!?

LOSERS! EVERY ONE!

"Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government,no matter how popular and respected, is the right of citizens to keep and bear arms.... The right of citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America but which historically has proven to be always possible."

-U.S. Senator Hubert H. Humphrey, Democrat from Minnesota, 1960

"[I]f circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their rights and those of their fellow citizens."

-Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist, No. 29

"The best we can hope for, concerning the people at large, is that they be properly armed."

-Alexander Hamilton

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense...."

-Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist, No.28

"These Sarah Brady types must be educated to understand that because we have an armed citizenry, that a dictatorship has not happened in America. These anti-gun fools are more dangerous to Liberty than street criminals or foreign spies."

-Theodore Haas, Dachau Survivor

"There is no doubt in my mind that millions of lives could have been saved if the people were not "brainwashed" about gun ownership and had been well armed. ... Gun haters always want to forget the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, which is a perfect example of how a ragtag, half-starved group of Jews took 10 handguns and made asses out of the Nazis."

-Theodore Haas, Dachau Survivor

"Arms in the hands of citizens [may] be used at individual discretion... in private self-defense... "

-John Adams, 1788, A Defense of the Constitutions of the Government of the USA, 471

"And that the said Constitution [shall] be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms..."

-Samuel Adams, Massachusetts' U.S. Constitution ratification convention, 1788; "Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer", August 20, 1789

"Mr. Madison has introduced his long expected amendments... The rights of conscience, of bearing arms, of changing the government, are declared to be inherent in the people."

-Fisher Ames, Letter to F.R. Minoe, June 12, 1789

"Passing more gun laws will not stop crime, I think we should more strictly enforce existing laws and try and heal our nation's social woes instead of passing more laws".

-George W. Bush

"If a gun bill will pass because of the politics of the situation, you must see to it that its burdens are imposed upon a man because of a criminal background and not because he is an ordinary citizen and perhaps poor."

-Gen. James H. Doolittle

"The one weapon every man, soldier, sailor, or airman — should be able to use effectively is the rifle. It is always his weapon of personal safety in an emergency, and for many it is the primary weapon of offence and defense. Expertness in its use cannot be over emphasized."

-General Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1943

"The whole of the Bill [of Rights] is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered individuals...It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of."

-Albert Gallatin of the New York Historical Society, October 7, 1789

"Are we at last brought to such a humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in our own possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense is the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety, as in our own hands?"

-Patrick Henry, in Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution, Jonathan Elliot, ed. 1836, v.3 p.168

"Who are the militia? They consist of the whole people."

-Patrick Henry, 1782 speech

"First, the Constitution ought to secure a genuine and guard against a select militia, by providing that the militia shall always be kept well organized, armed, and disciplined, and include, according to the past and general usage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms; and that all regulations tending to render this general militia useless and defenseless, by establishing select corps of militia, or distinct bodies of military men, not having permanent interests and attachments in the community to be avoided."

-Patrick Henry

"No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms."

-Thomas Jefferson, proposed Virginia Constitution, June 1776

"Passing a law like the assault weapons ban is a symbolic - purely symbolic - move in that direction. Its only real justification is not to reduce crime but to desensitize the public to the regulation of weapons in preparation for their ultimate confiscation."

-Charles Krauthammer, columnist, Washington Post, April 5, 1996

"[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation... [where] the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."

-James Madison, The Federalist, No. 46

"A people armed and free forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition and is a bulwark for the nation against foreign invasion and domestic oppression."

-James Madison

"[W]hen the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man, who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually. . . . I ask, who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."

-George Mason, Virginia's U.S. Constitution ratification convention, 1788

"That the People have a right to keep and bear Arms; that a well regulated Militia, composed of the Body of the People, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe Defence of a free state."

-George Mason, declaration of "the essential and unalienable Rights of the People," later adopted by the Virginia ratification convention, 1788

"Gun bans don't disarm criminals, gun bans attract them."

-U.S. Ambassador to Japan, April 20, 1994

"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom."

-John F. Kennedy

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

-John F. Kennedy

"I am pleased to accept Life Membership in the National Rifle Association and extend to your organization every good wish for continued success."

-John F. Kennedy, March 20, 1961

"By calling attention to 'a well regulated militia', the 'security' of the nation, and the right of each citizen 'to keep and bear arms', our founding fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy. Although it is extremely unlikely that the fears of governmental tyranny which gave rise to the Second Amendment will ever be a major danger to our nation, the Amendment still remains an important declaration of our basic civilian-military relationships, in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason, I believe the Second Amendment will always be important."

-Senator John F. Kennedy, April 1960

"I am thus far a Quaker, that I would gladly argue with all the world to lay aside the use of arms and settle matters by negotiation, but unless the whole will, the matter ends, and I take up my musket and thank Heaven He has put it in my power."

-Writings of Thomas Paine 56 (M. Conway ed. 1894)

"The prohibition is general. No clause in the Constitution could by rule of construction be conceived to give the Congress the power to disarm the people. Such a flagitious attempt could only be made under some general pretense by a state legislature. But if in blind pursuit of inordinate power, either should attempt it, this amendment may be appealed to as a restraint on both."

-William Rawle, 1825; considered academically to be an expert commentator on the Constitution. He was offered the position of the first Attorney General of the United States, by President Washington.

"The great body of our citizens shoot less as times goes on. We should encourage rifle practice among schoolboys, and indeed among all classes, as well as in the military services by every means in our power. Thus, and not otherwise, may we be able to assist in preserving peace in the world... The first step — in the direction of preparation to avert war if possible, and to be fit for war if it should come — is to teach men to shoot!"

-President Theodore Roosevelt's last message to Congress.

"To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace. A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined."

-George Washington, First Annual Address, January 8, 1790.

"There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the enemy."

-George Washington

"When firearms go, all goes - we need them every hour."

-George Washington

"Another source of power in government is a military force. But this, to be efficient, must be superior to any force that exists among the people, or which they can command; for otherwise this force would be annihilated, on the first exercise of acts of oppression. Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive."

-Noah Webster, An Examination of The Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, Philadelphia, 1787

"Gun control has cleared the way for seven major genocides since 1915, in which governments gone bad murdered 56,000,000 persons, including millions of children."

-Aaron Zelman of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership

GOT THAT JACKASSES!! Take your quote list against mine and see your arguments dissolve like a bleeding heart.

40 posted on 05/15/2003 5:16:40 PM PDT by GunRunner
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To: GunRunner
Great compilation of quotes GunRunner. Thanks. Bookmarked for posterity.
41 posted on 05/15/2003 5:27:53 PM PDT by mc5cents
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To: AlbionGirl
"Ultimately, a civilized society must disarm its citizenry if it is to have a modicum of domestic tranquility of the kind enjoyed by sister democracies such as Canada and Britain. Given the frontier history and individualist ideology of the United States, however, this will not come easily." - Charles Krauthammer, columnist, "Disarm the Citizenry".

This quote is from an article where he praises the "Assault Weapon Ban", because, while it does nothing to reduce crime, it gets Americans used to the idea that the government should decide who has guns or not.

He gives no rational for his statement that a civilized society must disarm its citizenry. A clear current counterexample is Switzerland.

This statement flys in the face of most of history, where many civilizations started down the road to tyranny after they disarmed their citizens.

Machiavelli (a source I rate higher than Krauthammer) says in The Prince "When you disarm your subjects, however, you offend them by showing that either from cowardliness or lack of faith, you distrust them; and either conclusion will induce them to hate you"

42 posted on 05/15/2003 5:42:47 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: Chemist_Geek
Civilian Employees of the goverment are obvious -- after all, they ARE working a 35 or 40 hour week, aren't they? This includes teachers as well, however, the protection of tenure for all teachers should be eliminated forthwith, and the requirement that teachers be educated and proficient in the area they are teaching should not only be expected, but mandated.
43 posted on 05/15/2003 5:45:36 PM PDT by Imagine
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To: drew
I thought it was a good point but wonder what some counter arguments are?

All the arguments by the founding fathers explaining in depth their logic behind the 2nd Amendment can be found in the Federalist Papers.

44 posted on 05/15/2003 5:51:37 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (Nothing worse than an angry herd of hungry finches....)
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To: Imagine
If the founding fathers were writing the bill of rights today, I'm certain that we would find the following: "Any individual whose housing, food or medical treatment is subsidized by the state or whose children is supported by allowances provided by the state shall be prohibited from voting in any local, state or federal election." Or something to that effect...

Actually it WAS there! The original franchise was limited to Property Owning Men... hardly people who would be dependent on the government for the support of their children. Note that this was before the concept of corporate welfare, crop subsidies, oil depletion allowances, etc., was created making even property owners capable of getting government support.

45 posted on 05/15/2003 6:32:37 PM PDT by Swordmaker (Tagline Extermination Services, franchises available, small investment, big profit)
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To: Swordmaker
Not by the Constitution. Franchise was generally left to the states, at least until the 14th amendment when denying it to males over 21 would reduce representation. Later the 19th Amendment overrode any state laws against women voting, then the boomers moved the age to 18. The original Constitution and Bill of Rights are pretty silent about who will be allowed the vote.


46 posted on 05/15/2003 7:14:31 PM PDT by m1911
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To: Swordmaker
Yes, I am aware of the property owning requirement. Today, I'd be happy to see one have to bring in their W2 statement to prove gainful employment for the year before they could vote. We simply have too many sponges living in this country because it's easier to go ask for food and shelter than is is to get up in the morning and go to work.
47 posted on 05/16/2003 5:19:13 AM PDT by Imagine
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To: Chemist_Geek
Not true in every case. I am a civilian employee of the government at state level. I do not vote to raise taxes. I know how things work. The less everyone has to spend because of taxes, the less revenue everyone makes (including the state). Those who say their budgets can't be cut anymore have never had to eat Top Ramen for a month straight to get by.
48 posted on 05/16/2003 7:02:09 AM PDT by IYAS9YAS (Go Fast, Turn Left!)
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To: IronJack
"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bare arms, is as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." --Thomas Jefferson
49 posted on 05/16/2003 7:11:20 AM PDT by JavaTheHutt ( Gun control isn't about guns, it's about control)
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To: Joe Brower; CapandBall
Another one from last night. It's been busy lately.
50 posted on 05/16/2003 7:19:03 AM PDT by m1911
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