Saving Our Economy

The job market for tech graduates is tight and getting tighter. People with years of technical experience are working at flipping burgers and saying “Welcome to Wal-Mart.” Outsourcing every corporate function except senior management to low wage nations such as India and China has become the latest fashion in the executive suites. There are many reasons why this has become the fad du jour but if the USA is to remain a livable nation it is time for Government policy to change in order to maintain the American economy. Those technical jobs that remain inside the USA are being given to low cost “Guest Workers” under the H1B program or if companies have gotten squeezed by the minor contraction of the H1B program they bring in people under the L1 visa program. In the interim totally qualified Americans are pounding the pavement looking for these same jobs. The means to maintain the American economy as the engine that drives the world are there but there are some government policies that must be changed. I am proposing a ten point program that will put the American economy in the front again.

First, and foremost the H1B visa program should be eliminated today. ALL H1B VISA SHOULD BE ENDED TODAY AND THOSE PEOPLE IN THIS NATION ON THAT PROGRAM SHOULD BE ON THE NEXT FLIGHT OUT OF THE USA. If this causes a hardship for some companies, oh well, the H1B program was based on the supposition there were NO Americans who could do the job. So they lied and they should pay a price for their misrepresentation.

Second, the cost of outsourcing should reflect its true cost to these companies. Revise the tax code so that the investment tax credit does not cover any development done outside the USA unless such development can not be done inside the USA. Fraud in such certification should be considered a felony and prosecuted.

Third, get rid of section 1706 of the IRS code that made it almost impossible for the independent IT consultants to do business directly with companies.

Fourth, the temporary visas for engineers coming into the USA to learn what the jobs of current IT workers are should not be granted.

Fifth, simplify the tax and regulatory environment so that contractors can be employed more readily. (See comments on section 1706).

Sixth, tighten the L1 visa program so that it is not used as way around the H1B program. In short no L1 visas will be issued to facilitate moving American jobs offshore.

Seventh, prosecute anyone who has certified falsely that they were unable to find American workers for a job when all they were doing was trying to save money by bringing in H1B low wage guest workers. A few felony convictions in this realm will do wonders for stopping future false certifications.

Eighth, repeal all government subsidies for foreign investment, and institute tariffs against those nations which only will purchase American products if we build facilities in their nations. Such restrictions by foreign nations are an infringement on the free market and must be fought. More factories in China will do nothing to improve the American economic condition. Now even Mexico is feeling the pinch the investment by American firms in the People’s Republic of China. In short access to the American Market should be dependant upon free access of American firms to the market in other nations. If guest workers from a nation are to be allowed in the USA then Americans must be allowed to work in that nation.

Ninth, the American system of higher education should be focused on Americans first and foremost. If foreign students wish to come to the USA to study that is fine if there is space available, but only on a space available basis. Priority must go to those students who will be graduating as American citizens and the public funding of higher education should not be expended on students from other nations who seek to come here study and take the knowledge back to another nation to compete with the USA.

Tenth, we as a nation must revise our overall tax and regulatory environment. We must get away from the soak the rich formulas. We must no longer have the legal system seek to micro manage every action of every person. Rule of law is important but the law should not concern itself with trivialities. We need to restore balance in our tax laws and regulatory system.

These ten points are based on come very sound principles and are a natural conservative agenda in my opinion. They are based on controlling our borders. They are based on not subsidizing foreign nationals at the expense of the basics of American citizens. They are based on demanding free markets from our competitors. They are based on returning sanity to our tax and regulatory systems. They are based on demanding responsibility and truth from our nation’s companies in their dealings with our immigration policies. They are based on holding companies accountable for their actions.

No, none of this is a giveaway program. They are not based upon taking away a free market but rather on expanding a free market. India and China in fact the entire world has a sound basis to become sound stable and prosperous economies at present. The USA should not experience deflation and depression to subsidize these nations.

The political implications of the above proposals should be clear to everyone. Advocacy of these proposals would appeal to a broad cross section of the American electorate. They could be enough to insure a long term governing plurality for the political party that adopted them. It is my hope that the Republican Party will take them to heart.

Geez, remember my first post? I said don't do away with H1B altogether, because there are non-IT jobs that utilize the program in a fair and necessary way. I have not once said that American companies should be hiring foreign nationals for IT jobs that can be done by ready and willing Americans. If all of those jobs posted go to foreign nationals, pick a company, and sue the s**t out of them. If you speak the truth, you have a great case.

But why am I not seeing any posts from the anti-H1B crowd about the lawsuits they are filing? There is legal recourse for what you are alleging, and yet not once have I seen someone seek redress. Is it easier to just complain, or is there more to the individual stories than people let on? This is an honest question, and not an accusation.

There is legal recourse for what you are alleging, and yet not once have I seen someone seek redress.

There are some civil cases pending including one's against SUN and Microsoft. In general most IT professionals do not wish to file such suits because after filing such a suit one is completely unemployable in the industry an dmost of these people do not hold to the "Class action" lawsuit ideal. Further there is a problem with standing to bring actions. Since the primary transaction for getting in an H1B worker is between the employer and the INS there is no standing for a job applicant to bring suit.

Now as to those companies that are supposedly using the H1B program in a fair and necessary way I say they should prove that is the case. In short the burden of proof must be on the company. They are the one's who wish to import a non-citizen to work in this nation. They should prove the absolute need. We can then reinstitute a very limited program to address those needs. If we are to have hardships endured by Americans let it be by those who wish to import foreign nationals rather than by Americans who seek to work.

Now as to those companies that are supposedly using the H1B program in a fair and necessary way I say they should prove that is the case. In short the burden of proof must be on the company

My company is one, and a simple FOIA to the INS will reveal everything to be above board. The "burden of proof" is borne through the process. The proof itself is on file. Again, these are non-IT positions.

The whole spectrum of labor and market is very complex. I believe this list of 10 things is very 1 sided. I work as an engineer in avionics and we subcontract some of our less exciting work to the Chinese. They do good engineering for about a dollar or two an hour. That sounds pretty free market to me.

I would agree that it was free market if the USA avionics industry had full access to market in China without the demand that goods and service be actually produced in China. Further, the lower level experience in engineering that you are getting for a dollar or two an hour would also be an excellent entry level engineering position for an American engineer. Does that dollar or two an hour count the write off of expenses for engineering development? Who will be doing the advanced avionics engineeriong in a few years?

If it is a free and fair market situation then there is no negative impact from my points. If it is not then you are taking tax dollars to subsidize foreign nations and their nationals.

The fact that you are employed and are presumably making money off this situation really should not be all that significant. Clearly you could be employed and making more money with a fully free market for American goods and services.

In short a free market wirks both ways. now if Chinese companies were subcontracting or contracting their major deveopment to your company without restrictionbs on what subcontractors you use then I would state we had a free market situation. so far all you have described is a flow of dollars jobs and engineering experience and expertise to China in return for scut work product at low cost. You have described this without teh requisite free access of American companies to sell their product without resrtictions.

I presuming you are being accurate and truthful so I merely ask for my own edification what positions you can not find Americans to work at what qualifications do you require that Americans do not have? Certainly it can not be Doctors, or Nurses. These positions require liscenses.

It is most certainly nurses, more than any. You cannot just truck in loads of nurses from just anywhere, of course. They must be from a country which provides an education that is at least equivalent to that of U.S. nursing schools. The Phillipines is a good example. They must pass the requisite U.S. exams and be eligible for licensure in the respective state, as well.

Believe me, if you started deporting foreign nurses, you'd see hospitals closing beds by the dozen, which would not be good for anyone. And I can guarantee you that there are no U.S. nurses sitting around without a job, unless that's the way they like it.

There is nothing extreme about your proposals, as a starting point.

The job listings on monster, dice, hotjobs, et.al., are more often preliminary requirements for visa certifications, rather than sincere solicitations for applicants.

It's curious how some on this board insist that everyone should "relocate" when foreigners are being imported to take their jobs. Many IT workers have for years traveled and/or relocated for new jobs and projects, and mostly at their own expense. The difference today is that Americans are not being hired, regardless of their qualifications or their willingness to relocate.

The 1706 rule gave rise to a plague of "recruiting firms" whose sole purpose was to keep IT wages out of the hands of the people actually doing the work. That started even before the H-1B program spun completely out of control under Clinton. The recruiters even laughingly call themselves "pimps". Normally recruiting/contracting firms abscond with half to two thirds of the money paid for IT work, and provide little for their cut. Repealing the 1706 rule would eliminate that waste immediately.

Ah nursing as the profession where we have supposedly insufficient people to fill the needs. I note that the wages of Nurses have not jumped to magnificent levels. I note there are many nurses who are out of the profession who say it is not economic to go back to work. Within the past year I know of MSN who were out of work for a fairly long period.

I do not buy it. If your documentation shows you have increased the compensation for Nurses to the point where the compensation is better than the CEO of your health care organization then I will buy it as valid. A good nurse should be getting paid at a professional level if you are providing that level of compensation then

Believe me, if you started deporting foreign nurses, you'd see hospitals closing beds by the dozen, which would not be good for anyone.

That is a business decision they would make in the regulatory envirornment they face. alternatively they could attract more nurses by increasing the compensation and benefits and improving working conditions.

And I can guarantee you that there are no U.S. nurses sitting around without a job, unless that's the way they like it.

Once more I can guarantee there are more people who would be willing to return to the nursing job market if the pay, benefits and conditions were better.

We do the advanced engineering, they do the sh*t work known as verification. In that they only do the grunt work, we do the final verification. We hate doing it and the cost of an engineer + support is about 200,000 per year here. The product we make goes into boeing commercial aircraft which only has one competitor. That whole equation is handled as far up the chain as washington. This may be the first year that Airbus ever outsells Boeing. Washington can pull a couple of strings and change that at anytime and they probably will. That's how things work which is why I disagree with the premise of the 10 points.

Not true. That same thinking is what fuels unions who think they can isolate themselves from the fact that there are people willing and able to do their job for a small fraction of the money. You can't live in that kind of a vacuum(sp), that's what causes entire companies to leave or relocate their operations.

A new graduate nurse with no experience and merely an AA degree is currently making over $40,000/year without overtime (in Baltimore). Their wages are increasing at faster than a 7% rate annually. There are more nursing positions in this country than there are licensed nurses. If I raised wages by 50%, the number of nurses would not necessarily increase, but your medical bills would. And then the government would force me to lower them, and then I would go out of business, and then no nurses would be working, and you and I would fall ill and die.

The point being that health care is NOT your average supply and demand operation. In many respects, it's not even qualitative competition that drives the market. Because of this, it is impossible to simply raise wages and/or benefits (which are really just dollars in another form) to address shortages, because we cannot offset those expenses with price increases.

One thing that can be done, and it will be, is to restructure the care delivery model to reduce the role of nurses. Many people, including myself, believe that this is the wrong move for the long term, but we don't mint money here in health care. The H1B program helps alleviate some of these market pressures.

A new graduate nurse with no experience and merely an AA degree is currently making over $40,000/year without overtime (in Baltimore).

Perhaps when that number is $85,000/year I admit that there is a definite need.

Their wages are increasing at faster than a 7% rate annually.

There is nothing sacred about such a rate of increase in a profession that is traditionally one of the lower paid professions nationally.

There are more nursing positions in this country than there are licensed nurses. If I raised wages by 50%, the number of nurses would not necessarily increase, but your medical bills would.

There are more nursing positions that do not actually need nurses in them but that could use such people as paramedics and former military medics than one can count. If you raised wages by 50% and improved working conditions you would have all the nurses you need unless and until someone else came up with competeing bids. Now the fact you would have to raise your charges does not particularly disturb me. The government forcing you to lower them does. These higher wages would certainly attract a large number of nursing students and rapidly the supply of fully qualified people would fully meet demand.

And then the government would force me to lower them, and then I would go out of business, and then no nurses would be working, and you and I would fall ill and die.Socialism is hell. The big problem is the government regulation and subsidy. You just want a little to benefit you when what I am proposing is merely regulating our bordersand ensuring free market access for American businesses. I presume that H1B Visa's may make sense for a brief period for the health care industry but by using the free market within the USA all those needs can be filled.

That whole equation is handled as far up the chain as washington.

I gather you think that Boeing does not make a product that can effectively compete with Airbus if you do not wish a free market. I actually have a more faith in Boeing than you seem to. Now the economics of the verification are really impressive to me but how much technology had to be given to China to get that? That should be included in the overall cost of this work but it is not.

I favor a free markety without the free flow of foreign nationals into the USA. My problem is why must the factory have been built in China when clearly the existing factories here in the USA would have been able to do the job if we had free access to their market the way their products have free access to ours.

Certainly this describes the situation in your industry precisely. I note that Boeing in order to sell to the Chinese government had to transfer significant technology and build a factory in China. This is clearly a violation of free market principles.
I gather you think that Boeing does not make a product that can effectively compete with Airbus if you do not wish a free market. I actually have a more faith in Boeing than you seem to. Now the economics of the verification are really impressive to me but how much technology had to be given to China to get that? That should be included in the overall cost of this work but it is not.
I favor a free markety without the free flow of foreign nationals into the USA. My problem is why must the factory have been built in China when clearly the existing factories here in the USA would have been able to do the job if we had free access to their market the way their products have free access to ours.

It's really very simple. They wouldn't have bought the planes if we didn't do that. That is how business works. If you think they will simply buy our planes without getting some piece of the action you don't know how business works. That will never change and calling for a change is silly. A small example of Boeing happened right here in CR Ia. Hy-Vee wanted to build a new grocery store where there oldest one stood. It was a 4 million dollar project. In your overly simplistic model they would simply have done that but that's now how it happened. They turned it into a political thing where the store was needed by the poor people who live close by. They don't have cars you see. So through advertising and politicing they squoze a million dollars out of the city to build the new store. That's just how the world works sir, welcome.

Once more I can guarantee there are more people who would be willing to return to the nursing job market if the pay, benefits and conditions were better.

You hit the nail on the head!! I've always been of the opinion that you can get any type of work done whether it be nursing, I.T. or cutting grass if you pay people enough to do it so that they can live. Look at most fast food places, they're always crying that they depend on the labor of illegal immigrants because americans are too lazy to do the work, or feel that it's beneath them. Then you compare what they're willing to pay now vs what they paid in 1980, and it's minimum wage or thereabouts. The only way anyone can afford to work in that kind of environment is if they live 20 people to a house. Sorry but americans shouldn't be forced to live that way.

If you cut off the flow of cheap labor, the work would still get done, but either the wages would rise or productivity would rise so you have 1 $20.00/hr worker doing the work of four $5.00 /hr workers. This would happen by pure economics, no government forcing a rise in wages.

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.