Key to Getting in Hall of Fame? Hitting 500 Balls out of the Park

THE WALL STREET JOURNAL ^ | Friday, May 16, 2003 | ALLEN ST. JOHN

[Anitius Severinus Boethius]

I read an story once, don't know how much I believe it, that Ty slid into second (spikes up of course) to try to break up a double play that Wagner was trying to turn. He caught Wagner with a couple of spikes in the calf. As soon as he made the throw, Wagner simply stepped on Ty's crotch (pre-cup era) and walked back to his position.

From that time onward, Honus Wagner was the only shortstop not to have to worry about Ty Cobb spiking him.

[Colonel_Flagg]

Whoa, easy, big fella. I agreed with you. Try reading the whole post next time.

Flagg

[Willie Green]

No. That was in left field. For a short period of time, they had some bullpens out there that made the left field fence shorter. It was known both as "Greenberg Gardens" (for Hank Greenberg) and "Kiner's Korner". (I guess it depended on which one was at bat. It was a little before my time, but I heard the folklore while growing up.)

[AuH2ORepublican]

"I think Joe DiMaggio played in 10 World Series in his 13-year career."

---

You are correct, Joe D. went to the World Series in 10 of his 13 seasons (he only played 13 seasons because the San Francisco Seals wouldn't sell his contract earlier and because he lost 3 years due to WWII). Even more impressive was Yogi Berra (along with Mickey Cochrane and Johnny Bench, one of the three greatest catchers of all time), who went to the World Series in 14 of his 17 seasons (excluding seasons with fewer than 10 games). The Babe wasn't too shabby in that department either---he played on 3 pennant-winners on the Red Sox and 7 more with the Yankees for a total of 10 pennants.

But what sets Babe Ruth apart from every other ballplayer was how far ahead of his time he was. Babe Ruth became a full-time outfielder in 1919 (although he still pitched in 17 games, 15 of them starts, and went 8-5 with a 2.98 ERA). That year, he broke the AL single-season home run record (16 by Socks Seybold in 1902), then the 20th Century single-season record (24 by Gavvy Cravath in 1915) and finally the all-time Major League single-season record (27 by Ned Williamson in 1884) and ended the season with 29 homers. The next year, after moving from Fenway Park to the Polo Grounds upon his purchase by the Yankees, he hit 54 homers, pushing his career total to 103 homers, thus breaking Home Run Baker's AL career record of 80 (actually, his home run production in 1919 and 1920 alone would have been enough for Ruth to break Baker's record). In 1921, Ruth broke Gavvy Cravath's 20th Century record of 119 career homers, and later in the season broke Roger Connor's all-time career record of 138 homers; Ruth hit 59 homers that year to finish the season with 162 career home runs. In his first three seasons as a full-time outfielder, Babe Ruth hit more homers (142) than any other player in Major League history had hit for his entire career. Babe Ruth reached 250 career homers in 1924 and 300 career homers in 1925. In 1929, the year in which Rogers Hornsby and Cy Williams became the second and third players in history to reach 250 career homers, Ruth hit his 500th career home run. And in 1934, the year in which Lou Gehrig and Rogers Hornsby became the second and third players in history to reach 300 career homers, Ruth hit his 700th career home run. Oh yeah, and he retired the following year with a career batting average of .342 (6th all-time, behind Ty Cobb, Rogers Hornsby, Joe Jackson, Tris Speaker and Ted Williams, among 20th Century players with 4,000 plate appearances), a career on-base percentage of .474 (2nd all-time behind Ted Williams) and a career slugging percentage of .690 (best of all time), plus a career won-lost record of 94-46 (his .671 career winning percentage is 6th among 20th Century pitchers with 100 career decisions), a career 2.28 ERA (11th all-time among 20th Century pitchers with 1,000 or more innings pitched) and only 7.18 hits allowed per 9 innings (12th all-time among pitchers with 1,000 or more IP; which is even more impressive when you consider that the first 9 guys on the list debuted in the Majors after 1950).

That Barry fellow in San Francisco is pretty good (I've been saying for over 5 years now that he's better than Ted Williams and Stan Musial, and in 2001 people finally stopped looking at me funny), but there's only one Babe.

[WaveThatFlag]

I know you did, but the context was a little troubling. You did compare the two, and you said SLG% was not important when you did so.

[Colonel_Flagg]

Archibald "Moonlight" Grahm (yes, he was a real person) might have become the greatest player if he hadn't decided to become a doctor.

And I know that too. Moonlight Graham spent the last years of his life living about an hour from my house.

And as for Bo Jackson, I'd find it hard to believe that a player who struck out in 35 percent of his career at-bats would receive serious consideration as the greatest player of all time. Yes, he *might* have been but I'd doubt it.

As you correctly note, Ruth's dominance as a both a pitcher and hitter, and his relative dominance of the game in comparison to his peers in the 1920s, qualifies him as the greatest ever.

My whole point is that basing the greatest player ever on a single statistic is not wise. Ruth's brilliance was greater on more than one level.

[Willie Green]

and measured 456' to left center with a 12' high wall. Home runs there were real shots.

I think it was Mantle who hit the light tower out in left center.
The ball was supposedly still rising when it hit!
(But maybe that's an exageration that became "truth" with repetition. I find it hard to believe that anybody could whack a ball that hard.)

I think Ruth was the first one to hit a ball out of Forbes Field going over the right field roof.
Of course, Stargell did it more often than anybody else in history.

[Colonel_Flagg]

I know you did, but the context was a little troubling.

Then why not ask about the context instead of drilling and denigrating me?

BTW, enjoying your posts on the Sorenstam threads.

[circles]

Yes, Cobb led the AL in slugging 8 times and OBP 7 times---all before the Dead Ball Era ended in 1920

Yes, thats the whole rub. Cobb never appreciated the whole Home Run Concept. He believed in little ball. He didn't try for home runs. Yes, Cobb was a product of dead ball baseball. However, he did have power. His skills were what would be admired today in a 40/40 hitter.

[grumple]

Come on!!! We all know that the reason for all the homers is global warming....Sheesh!!!

[Colonel_Flagg]

Great comment. Try hitting one out to center field in the old Polo Grounds. It was something like 275 down the lines but if you look at Willie Mays catching the Vic Wertz drive in the '54 Series, he's about ten feet short of the fence, and there's about a 15-foot wall there, roughly 460 feet from home plate.

Braves Field was another beaut - 448 down the left field line if memory serves. Obviously, deeper to the alleys :)

[AuH2ORepublican]

"It was known both as "Greenberg Gardens" (for Hank Greenberg) and "Kiner's Korner"."

---

When the Pirates acquired Hank Greenberg in 1947, they moved the LF fence in, and it was called Greenberg Gardens. But while Greenberg only played one season in Pittsburgh, hitting only 25 homers, Ralph Kiner increased his homers from 23 as a rookie in 1946 (unbelievably, he led the National League that year) to 51 in 1947. Kiner led the NL in homers every year from 1946 to 1952, and upon Greenberg's retirement before the 1948 season the short left field porch was re-christened Kiner's Corner.

[Alberta's Child]

Great post. Except that Barry fella in San Francisco is putting up meaningless numbers if he's on steroids.

[doosee]

If you look at the whole player, Bonds can hit 1000 homers and will never be the greatest. His candy$ss arm in left field and slow reaction to a sharply hit ball let a lumbering Sid Bream waddle in from second base in 97 ? to let the Braves knock Pittsburgh out of their last legit shot at a crown in the NL. Add to that that he is poison to team atmosphere and that speaks for itself.

[Willie Green]

Yeah, that sounds about right.
That shortened left field didn't last very long.
I was born in '52, and by the time I became "baseball aware"
(somewhere around age 7 or 8) it was already gone.

[Colonel_Flagg]

That Barry fellow in San Francisco is pretty good (I've been saying for over 5 years now that he's better than Ted Williams and Stan Musial, and in 2001 people finally stopped looking at me funny)

That was a terrific post until this line. By the numbers, Williams was a superior player to Bonds, and Musial never got to play in a ballpark that was designed for him. If Williams hadn't given up five peak years to the military he might have hit 700 home runs (he was averaging about 35 homers a year before and after WWII while facing pitching that wasn't torched by expansion).

Williams had six seasons with better than a .500 OBP and five more (consecutive) that were over .490. Bonds better than Williams? Not in my book.

In career numbers, Williams has by far a better BA (.344 to .295), a better OBP (.483 to .428) and believe it or not, a better slugging percentage (.634 to .595), despite Bonds having 613 homers entering this season.

And this from a fellow who agrees with every word you wrote about Ruth. I love a good baseball debate :)

[Alberta's Child]

Anyone who has Hall-of-Fame years this late in his career, with a muscle mass that is markedly larger than during the prime years of his career, should be rightly regarded with some suspicion.

[rabidralph]

Player	Age	HR	EHL	500 HR	600 HR
A. Rodriquez	27	298	52.7	97%	86%
K. Griffey, Jr.	33	468	18.0	97%	7%
F. McGriff	39	478	29.8	97%	0%
J. Thome	32	334	48.5	90%	38%
M. Ramirez	31	310	36.5	65%	26%
J. Bagwell	34	380	36.3	59%	9%
V. Guerrero	27	209	37.8	52%	26%
A. Jones	25	185	34.8	50%	26%
S. Green	30	234	41.3	43%	18%
M. Piazza	34	347	34.8	32%	0%

[Alberta's Child]

Didn't Musial accomplish some pretty bizarre feats, like getting exactly half his lifetime hits from each side of the plate, and having the same number of hits at home and on the road?