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Gallup Poll: Honest Abe, JFK Among Greatest U.S. Presidents
Gallup News Service ^ | 5/16/03 | Joseph Carroll

Posted on 05/16/2003 11:15:21 PM PDT by Jean S

PRINCETON, NJ -- An Unfinished Life, historian Robert Dallek's new book about the life of President John F. Kennedy, was released this week. The book, among other things, illustrates the gravity of Kennedy's medical problems, describes an alleged affair with a White House intern, and speculates about how Kennedy would have handled the Vietnam War. The publication of this new Kennedy biography raises the question of where Kennedy ranks in the eyes of Americans.

Lincoln, Kennedy Have Slight Edge on Greatest U.S. President This Year

An April CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll asked Americans: "Who do you regard as the greatest United States president?"

Abraham Lincoln gets the most mentions from Americans at 15%, but not by a significant margin over the second-place finisher, Kennedy (13%). Two recent presidents, Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagan, as well as the current president, are all mentioned by 10% or more of the public. Other presidents earning mentions from more than 5% of the public include Franklin D. Roosevelt and George Washington.

Gallup has asked this question four times since 1999, and over that period, Lincoln and Kennedy have typically rated near the top of the list. In 1999, Lincoln had a six-percentage-point lead over Washington, Kennedy, Reagan, and Clinton. Kennedy led the pack the next year, with a small four-percentage-point lead over Lincoln. Polling in 2001 and 2003 has found no clear-cut victor among the presidents mentioned, but Lincoln and Kennedy still appear near the top of the list. Reagan, with 18%, actually had the most mentions in 2001, probably due in part to the fact that the poll was conducted around celebrations of his 90th birthday.

Who do you regard as the greatest United States president?

Apr 5-6,
2003

Feb 9-11,
2001

Feb 14-15,
2000

Feb
1999

%

%

%

%

Abraham Lincoln

15

14

18

18

John Kennedy

13

16

22

12

Bill Clinton

11

9

5

12

George W. Bush

11

--

--

--

Ronald Reagan

10

18

11

12

Franklin Roosevelt

9

6

12

9

George Washington

7

5

5

12

Harry Truman

4

6

3

4

Jimmy Carter

3

4

3

3

Theodore Roosevelt

2

2

3

3

George Bush (the elder)

2

3

3

5

Thomas Jefferson

2

1

3

2

Dwight Eisenhower

1

1

3

2

Richard Nixon

1

1

2

2

Other

2

5

3

1

None

1

2

*

1

No opinion

6

7

4

2

2000-2001 questions asked of half sample.

Republicans, Democrats Vary Substantially on Greatest U.S. President

The latest polling finds dramatic (but not necessarily surprising) differences between the Republicans' and Democrats' choices for the greatest president in history. Three Democratic presidents -- Kennedy (25%), Clinton (21%), and Franklin Roosevelt (13%) -- are Democrats' most frequent choices as the greatest president. Lincoln is the only Republican president identified by a large number of Democrats, with 9% saying he is the greatest president.

Among Republicans in this poll, 23% mention the current president. Lincoln is mentioned by 20%, 18% mention Reagan, and 9% mention Washington. No more than 3% of Republicans nominate any Democratic president as the greatest of all time.

Independents have a more mixed view, with Lincoln, Kennedy, Clinton, and Franklin Roosevelt each getting between 11% and 16% of the votes.

Republicans

Independents

Democrats

%

%

%

Abraham Lincoln

20

16

9

John Kennedy

3

13

25

Bill Clinton

2

12

21

George W. Bush

23

6

3

Ronald Reagan

18

8

3

Franklin Roosevelt

3

11

13

George Washington

9

8

4

Harry Truman

3

5

3

Jimmy Carter

1

3

6

Theodore Roosevelt

2

3

2

George H.W. Bush

3

2

*

Thomas Jefferson

1

2

2

Dwight Eisenhower

2

1

*

Richard Nixon

2

1

--

Age Impacts Vote for Greatest President in U.S. History

There are interesting and significant differences in choice of greatest U.S. president by age. Americans tend to select a leader from the formative years of their generation. The only exceptions, once again, are Washington and Lincoln, who rank fairly high among people in all age groups despite the fact that both served long before any person living today was born.

Clinton is far and away the most likely to be selected as the greatest president among 18- to 29-year-olds; nearly 3 in 10 respondents in this age group mention him. Younger Americans are at least three times more likely than any other age group to cite Clinton as the best president. Lincoln and the current President Bush each get 10% of the mentions from people in the 18- to 29-year-old age group, getting only about one-third of the mentions Clinton does among younger Americans.

Americans aged 30 to 49 are essentially divided in their opinions on the greatest president, but Reagan, who was in office when these people were mainly in their teens, 20s, and 30s, is more likely to be mentioned by this age group than any others. Lincoln, Kennedy, and Reagan are essentially tied, with just about one in six mentioning them. Twelve percent mention the current president.

One in five Americans between the ages of 50 and 64 mention Kennedy as the greatest president, significantly more than in any other age group. Those in this age bracket also hold Lincoln in high regard.

For Americans aged 65 and older, Franklin Roosevelt and Lincoln are essentially tied as the greatest U.S. president, named by 19% and 17%, respectively. Also scoring high among this age group are the current President Bush, Harry Truman, and Kennedy.

18- to 29-
year-olds

30- to 49-
year-olds

50- to 64-
year-olds

65 and
older

%

%

%

%

Abraham Lincoln

10

16

17

17

John Kennedy

7

14

21

10

Bill Clinton

29

8

8

6

George W. Bush

10

12

9

12

Ronald Reagan

7

14

8

8

Franklin Roosevelt

4

6

10

19

George Washington

8

6

8

5

Harry Truman

2

2

4

10

Jimmy Carter

2

4

3

1

Theodore Roosevelt

5

2

3

1

George H.W. Bush

3

3

*

*

Thomas Jefferson

1

2

2

*

Dwight Eisenhower

1

1

1

1

Richard Nixon

--

2

*

1

Higher Educated Americans Pick Lincoln as Greatest U.S. President

"Honest Abe" is the top choice as the greatest U.S. president among Americans with college degrees or postgraduate education. Roughly one in five adults with degrees in higher education pick Lincoln as the greatest president, while fewer Americans with only some college or a high school diploma or less mention Lincoln.

No other president comes close to Lincoln among adults with a college degree or postgraduate education. Reagan, Franklin Roosevelt, and Kennedy trail Lincoln, each mentioned by roughly 1 in 10 Americans at these levels of education.

Those with some college or a high school diploma or less show no consensus as to the greatest president.


Post-
graduate education


College graduate only


Some college education

High school diploma or less

%

%

%

%

Abraham Lincoln

20

21

13

13

John Kennedy

11

12

13

15

Bill Clinton

5

6

13

14

George W. Bush

5

8

9

16

Ronald Reagan

12

8

12

10

Franklin Roosevelt

12

11

7

8

George Washington

7

8

8

5

Harry Truman

4

4

4

3

Jimmy Carter

3

4

3

2

Theodore Roosevelt

2

2

4

2

George H.W. Bush

2

3

2

2

Thomas Jefferson

5

4

1

*

Dwight Eisenhower

*

2

1

1

Richard Nixon

1

--

2

1

Survey Methods

These results are based on telephone interviews with a randomly selected national sample of 1,009 adults, aged 18 and older, conducted April 5-6, 2003. For results based on this sample, one can say with 95%confidence that the maximum error attributable to sampling and other random effects is ±3 percentage points. In addition to sampling error, question wording and practical difficulties in conducting surveys can introduce error or bias into the findings of public opinion polls.


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: barbarastreisand; battleshipcole; bravosierra; clintonlegacy; embassybombings; foreignembassy; impeachedpresident; jfk; kneepadbrigade; lewinsky; lincoln; mediabias; okc; rapist; rifleineliansface; vincefoster; wtc1993; wtc2001; x42
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1 posted on 05/16/2003 11:15:21 PM PDT by Jean S
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To: JeanS
I'm becoming convinced that I live in a country full of morons. I can't believe what a see in polls at times.
2 posted on 05/16/2003 11:18:00 PM PDT by AAABEST
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To: AAABEST
I think the answers are a result of the respondent’s educations. Kennedy and Lincoln are the most mentioned in public school history classes. I would guess that if they had included Martin Luther King in this presidential poll he would have received many votes too, for the same reason, although he was never president.
3 posted on 05/16/2003 11:31:25 PM PDT by Jean S
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To: AAABEST
I can't believe G. Washington scored so low.
4 posted on 05/16/2003 11:34:13 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (This tagline has been banned.)
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To: AAABEST
My husband's favorite saying has become "six out of ten".
Translation: Six out of every ten people are morons.

Sad to agree, but I'm convinced he's right.
5 posted on 05/16/2003 11:38:28 PM PDT by demkicker (I wanna kick some commie butt)
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To: AAABEST
America has been dumbed down; almost beyond repair.

Clinton is one member of the Axis of Crentonous/destructive presidents...right up there with FDR, Wilson, and Carter. JFK was a terrible president,m who probably would NOT have been re-elected; even with his father's money/Mafia connections, which got him elected in the first place.

6 posted on 05/16/2003 11:39:39 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: JeanS
The top two were shot and the third should have been...LOL

Just joking, I don't want anybody shout that are not terrorist anti-American types.
7 posted on 05/16/2003 11:40:19 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: nopardons
JFK was the first true "television president". That speaks for itself.
8 posted on 05/16/2003 11:41:34 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (This tagline has been banned.)
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To: Jeff Chandler
Yes, you are correct about that. He was also inept as a president and probably the ONLY president to be given the amount of hype, after death, as he has been. The truth ( FACTS ) concerning his presidency have been oblitterated/hidden.
9 posted on 05/16/2003 11:43:51 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: JeanS
The top three one was a manic depressive, on was a druggie and the other was a sociopath.

WE have in this country about the dumbest bunch of people, thank god more people don't vote.

Two of the top three almost got us into wars and didn't because they didn't have the guts to drop the hammer, and instead left their people stranded and hung out to dry.

BTW does this mean we are going to have to suffer thru the 40th anniversary of the magic bullet?

Old Walter cronkite will be in his glory with teddy k bringing out the good stuff.

10 posted on 05/16/2003 11:53:31 PM PDT by dts32041 (C-4 can make a dull day fun.)
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To: dts32041

I wonder what the racial breakdown of the 18-29 group is that said Clinton was the greatest president. My guess, is a large chunk of them were blacks, who sadly and honestly believe Climton was the greatest president ever. Also I wonder what the complete sample size of the 18-29 year olds were as well, so many polls have failed to get a accurate sample of 18-29 year olds.
11 posted on 05/17/2003 12:16:41 AM PDT by JNB
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To: JeanS
Reagan, with 18%, actually had the most mentions in 2001, probably due in part to the fact that the poll was conducted around celebrations of his 90th birthday.

No disclaimers are mentioned about the polling results of anyone else, interesting, and also telling. How can I trust a poll that is taken by someone with an obvious bias? They seem quite surprised Reagan topped the list in 2001!

12 posted on 05/17/2003 12:22:04 AM PDT by ladyinred
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To: AAABEST
I'm becoming convinced that I live in a country full of morons. I can't believe what a see in polls at times.

Oh I believe it! Have you ever seen "Jaywalking" on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno? The segment where he goes out on the street, or often, to college campuses, and asks the most basic questions like, "What country did we drop an atomic bomb on in World War Two?" and respondents are dumbfouded?

I honestly think that most Americans under forty could probably name only five or six presidents including President King Jr. and President Benjamin Franklin --the dead "President" on the $100 bill!

13 posted on 05/17/2003 12:23:42 AM PDT by Drew68
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To: AAABEST
I'm becoming convinced that I live in a country full of morons.

Fortunately most of them don't bother registering to vote.

14 posted on 05/17/2003 12:27:17 AM PDT by Drew68
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To: ladyinred
I find it interesting that they did this poll during the release of the Kennedy biography. That must have skewed the results.

I know some complain about these polls being posted but I do see a use for them, not for an accurate measurements of current opinion, but for what the opinion-makers want us to think.

15 posted on 05/17/2003 12:28:44 AM PDT by Jean S
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To: AAABEST
Boy, the Father of our Country can't seem to catch a break in any of these polls, consistently scoring under 10%. And half of these people vote! America is doomed.
16 posted on 05/17/2003 12:32:17 AM PDT by Freedom_Is_Not_Free
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To: JeanS
Of course 60pcent of the Amurikin pimples don't know who the hell the Vice President is.

The only thing to make of these polls is that Bill Clinton's blow job was a greater accomplishment than George Washington leading the nation to independence.

OK , I'm convinced!!

17 posted on 05/17/2003 12:39:59 AM PDT by zarf (Republicans for Sharpton 2004)
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To: dts32041
one was a manic depressive

Depressed to be sure, and with much to be depressed about. But I don't see the manic side. In the nineteenth century, depression went undiagnosed and largely unnoticed. Maybe it was regarded as more or less normal in a world where amusements were few and death a constant presence. True manic states, though, would surely have attracted more attention. Maybe they were less common in those days.

But it's certainly true that people today are stupid. Some of them will excuse the Kennedys anything. Tonight, Eleanor Clift used the word "sweet" to describe JFK's recently discovered affair. I almost choked. Some people really believe that Kennedy was being of more than human stature who can't be held to normal human standards.

18 posted on 05/17/2003 12:41:29 AM PDT by x
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To: JeanS
Look at the numbers. Bill Blowjob Clinton is always shown above GW Bush but the numbers show him below each time except for the tiny bopers.
19 posted on 05/17/2003 12:46:37 AM PDT by america-rules (I'm one proud American right now !)
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To: america-rules
I hadn't noticed that. You would think they would ask the question and post the results in a logical order. I don't see that. Good catch.
20 posted on 05/17/2003 12:49:00 AM PDT by Jean S
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To: JeanS
BUSH

LINCOLN

JEFFERSON

WASHINGTON

grant
harding
johnson

carter

clinton

21 posted on 05/17/2003 12:51:09 AM PDT by Savage Beast ("Liberalism" is decadence. It has nothing to do with liberalism.)
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To: AAABEST
Lets not forget to credit Kennedy with Vietnam and Bay of Pigs which remain historic lowpoints for the strength of American Forces.
22 posted on 05/17/2003 12:51:50 AM PDT by ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton
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To: ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton
And the Unions ( STEEL ) had him and the nation on the ropes. The tax cut helped, but the business cycles were upset by the vast numbers of stikes, whilst JFK was president.
23 posted on 05/17/2003 12:55:21 AM PDT by nopardons
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To: JeanS
A number of observations:

1) Wonder how the results would skew if you told them JFK f*cked a TEENAGED intern while president. Note: this poll was taken before that revelation.

2) Every president since WWII is mentioned *except* LBJ. Why?

3) Lincoln's popularity can be condensed into the four-word phrase every grade shcool kid has learned "Lincoln freed the slaves". No president, not even Washington, has their identitiy sewn into such a tidy and magnanimous phrase. It would be rare to find someone who credits Lincoln with his role in conducting the Civil War or the torturous demands on his personal life while in Washington, etc. This four-word cliche is all most remember about him.

4) Somebody find the 2% of Republicans that believe Clinton was the greatest president and quickly remove them from the gene pool PLEASE! How could they possibly be Republicans and make such a claim? Conversely, you know the Democrats are already stealing raw data to locate the 3% of their affiliated members that feel that way about Reagan. I'm sure if they find them, they'll be shuttled off to concentration camps or, at the very least, have their AM radios taken away.

5) I wouldn't equate the slide of various presidents (particularly Republicans) without first factoring in the impact of George W. Bush. That 11% percent came from somewhere and it is mostly from Reagan, Bush's father and Nixon.

6) Excusing the timing of Reagan's popularity in 2001 seems specious since he would have his birthday at the same time every year - and its not like he's brought out in public to celebrate them. No, I think it has to do with the Clinton Fatigue our country felt at the time, as well as uncertainty on what sort of president Bush43 would become. America wanted a president to make them proud again and Reagan was the best recent example.

7) If I had been polled I would have answered Reagan each time, even today, while admitting to some areas where he fell short, he did so much to revive his party, his country, and that country's place in the world that I shudder to think what we'd be like today had he lost in 1980 and 1984.
24 posted on 05/17/2003 12:59:53 AM PDT by Tall_Texan (Destroy the Elitist Democrat Guard and the Fedayeen Clinton using the smart bombs of truth!)
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To: nopardons
The truth ( FACTS ) concerning his presidency have been oblitterated/hidden.

Aaach!! another freeper is starting to adopt f.christian's writing style.

25 posted on 05/17/2003 1:01:56 AM PDT by rmmcdaniell
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To: rmmcdaniell
HUNH ?

No,I certainly am not.

26 posted on 05/17/2003 1:04:20 AM PDT by nopardons
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To: rmmcdaniell
Please don't go there. Don't ruin my perfectly good thead with old feuds.
27 posted on 05/17/2003 1:06:48 AM PDT by Jean S
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To: dts32041
BTW does this mean we are going to have to suffer thru the 40th anniversary of the magic bullet?

Yes, because Kennedy is the Elvis of presidents - bigger dead than he ever was alive. And secondly, because there's still no consensus on who shot him so the murder mystery endures. Interesting, isn't it, that the heavy-handed rush to judgement meant to stifle any doubt as to who was the murderer has been turned on its head into creating the most enduring murder mystery of all time. Ask 20 people and you might get 20 different theories.

28 posted on 05/17/2003 1:12:55 AM PDT by Tall_Texan (Destroy the Elitist Democrat Guard and the Fedayeen Clinton using the smart bombs of truth!)
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To: Tall_Texan
And, for you stat hounds, notice how Truman's support is equally strong among Republicans as Democrats and even higher among Independents. Oh if Truman had only come out in favor of abortion, he might score better with the 'Rats.

While I'd have trouble classifying Truman as "great", I admire what he had to go through as the Accidental President - Hiroshima, the Marshall Plan, Korea, etc. He had a lot of chances to do terrible harm to our country and managed to sidestep most of them.
29 posted on 05/17/2003 1:23:43 AM PDT by Tall_Texan (Destroy the Elitist Democrat Guard and the Fedayeen Clinton using the smart bombs of truth!)
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To: AAABEST
I'm becoming convinced that I live in a country full of morons. I can't believe what a see in polls at times.

Yes indeed. I think the main thing this polls goes to show is how ingorant out population has become.

That's unfortunate.

30 posted on 05/17/2003 2:16:43 AM PDT by The Other Harry
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To: JeanS
JeanS and Eveyone Else,

This poll is ridiculous. If you want to see a more scientifi poll conducted recently by C-Span, check out the link below. This is a poll of C-Span viewers, but also on that site are other polls of historians broken down on a number of issues.

http://www.americanpresidents.org/survey/viewer/overall.asp
31 posted on 05/17/2003 2:40:12 AM PDT by MarkDel
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To: JeanS
I think the answers are a result of the respondent’s educations. Kennedy and Lincoln are the most mentioned in public school history classes.

To be thought of as a "great president" by large numbers of peoples requires that the president in question be in office at a time when the nation itself is in great peril, and of course we have to come through it OK, as we've always done. Thus Lincoln (Civil War), Roosevelt (WWII), and Kennedy (Cuban missile crises) are always near the tops of these lists.

32 posted on 05/17/2003 2:45:52 AM PDT by libertylover (Support for abortion is caused by the same flawed thinking that supported slavery.)
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To: Savage Beast
Savage Beast,

That's a pretty good list you put together there, Here's My Top 10 and Bottom 10

The Best 10 Presidents
1. Abraham Lincoln
2. George Washington
3. Ronald Reagan
4. Franklin Roosevelt
5. Thomas Jefferson
6. George W. Bush
7. Theodore Roosevelt
8. Richard Nixon
9. Andrew Jackson
10. Harry Truman
Honorable Mention to James Madison, who was only a decent President, but his writings in the Federalist Papers are perhaps the definitive work in poltical theory.

WORST 10 Presidents
1. Jimmy Carter
2. Jimmy Carter
3. Jimmy Carter
4. Jimmy Carter
5. Jimmy Carter
6. Lyndon Johnson
7. Bill Clinton
8. Herbert Hoover
9. Warren Harding
10. Franklin Pierce
33 posted on 05/17/2003 2:49:52 AM PDT by MarkDel
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To: AAABEST
I'm becoming convinced that I live in a country full of morons. I cant believe what a see in polls at times.

I read/heard recently that 95% of the folks called to participate in telephone polls hang up or don't participate. The majority of the 5% who partake in political polls are either lonely morons happy to be talking to anybody, or partisan activists from either the left or right. It then boils down to sampling - which side had more participants, the left or right.

It's pretty clear this poll tilted left BIGTIME.

34 posted on 05/17/2003 4:32:36 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer (The democRATS are near the tipping point.)
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To: x
...Eleanor Clift used the word "sweet" to describe JFK's recently discovered affair...

I wonder if Ms Clift would consider it "sweet" if her 19-year old daughter was "polled" by her employer.

35 posted on 05/17/2003 4:41:33 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer (The democRATS are near the tipping point.)
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To: JeanS
This poll was rigged.
36 posted on 05/17/2003 5:17:53 AM PDT by William McKinley (Our disagreements are politics. Our agreements are principles.)
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To: AAABEST
Don't you think that people like Jayson Blair come up with these results? They find what they want irrespective of data. I can't believe that more people cited Bill Clinton than Reagan. I am sure that there are so many people (Democrats included) who have contempt for Scumbubba.

This is Barabara Streisand if I've ever seen it.
37 posted on 05/17/2003 5:24:42 AM PDT by faithincowboys
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Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free
That's why this poll says a lot more about the respondents than maybe we wanted to know. Funny how the Democrats love JFK, but his ideas about tax cuts and strong defense would have leave any current candidate with no chance of winning his party's nomination.
39 posted on 05/17/2003 5:42:52 AM PDT by WarrenC
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To: Jeff Chandler
" ... I can't believe G. Washington scored so low. "

who is George Washington?

results == survey population. Survey morons, get moronic results.
40 posted on 05/17/2003 5:45:10 AM PDT by snooker
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To: MarkDel
MarkDel: Good list... but remove FDR (replace with Polk). Elevate W (so far) to just below Reagan. Remove Nixon -- besides his lying and criminal coverup [I've been apologizing for him for 30 years], his price controls and other big government activities merely propogated LBJ's awful War On Poverty.

I like your WORST list... Giving Jimmy Carter the top 5 spots is appropriate: Bill Clinton and LBJ should say a prayer to JC every night, thanking him for his service. And put Harding above Herbert Hoover -- Harding and Clinton are soul-mates and should be linked throughout history on a list like yours.

41 posted on 05/17/2003 5:56:16 AM PDT by ReleaseTheHounds
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To: Tall_Texan
In a recent Ben Stein's Diary in The American Spectator, Stein includes the following parenthetical phrase in a reference to JFK's first inaugural address: (and only inaugural owing to Kruschev and Castro's cruel decision to assassinate him--see Edward Jay Epstein's astounding book, Legend) Are you familiar wtih this book? I hadn't heard of it.
42 posted on 05/17/2003 6:23:31 AM PDT by WarrenC
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To: Jeff Chandler
The only reason that George Washington scores so low is that HISTORY is no longer taught in public schools. He was the first and the best IMHO. He could have been KING or stayed in office until he died. He had a monumental task and like our PRESIDENT of today was more than up to the challange.
43 posted on 05/17/2003 6:32:29 AM PDT by PISANO
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To: MarkDel
I agree with the top and bottom 10, Mark, though I might place them in slightly different orders, with one exception--I'd scratch Franklin Roosevelt. Great minds think alike!
44 posted on 05/17/2003 6:39:46 AM PDT by Savage Beast ("Liberalism" is decadence. It has nothing to do with liberalism.)
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To: WarrenC
see Edward Jay Epstein's astounding book, Legend) Are you familiar wtih this book? I hadn't heard of it.

I'm familiar with Epstein, not with this book. Epstein is another one of a handful of authors that has made a livelihood off JFK and his death.

What makes the JFK Murder Mystery so appealing is that there are so many high profile suspects with plausible motives to kill Kennedy and plausible ties to Lee Harvey Oswald (even though some seek to exonerate Oswald altogether as just the wrong man at the wrong place - a view I find unsupportable by the facts).

Key suspects and their plausible connections (in no particular order):

* LBJ(hatred for JFK, ambition) Killing done in Texas, his Limo not shot at.
* Mafia(crackdown on mob,Joe Kennedy's election help)LHO has very vague mob ties but Ruby had very definite mob ties
* Russia(cold war,missile crisis)LHO had spent time in Russia as an alleged defector.
* Cuba(cold war,Bay of Pigs)LHO attempted to defect to Cuba after returning from Russia.
* Pentagon(Vietnam)LHO was a Marine, trained as a marksman.
* CIA(Vietnam,other world conflicts)Many believe LHO's defection was actually CIA-orchestrated spying.
* FBI(partner/rival of CIA)LHO had several contacts with FBI leading up to assassination.
* Castro's enemies in U.S.(Bay of Pigs)LHO spent time with paramilitary groups dreaming of overthrowing Castro. Many of these saw JFK as traitor for failing to provide military cover for Bay of Pigs invasion which failed.
* "Right Wing"(JFK's liberalism)Connection to LHO quite unclear but Dallas was a hotbed of conservative groups hostile to JFK.
* "Big Oil"(JFK's liberalism)Often blamed in the same breath as "right wing".
* Richard Nixon(revenge for 1960)Just happened to be in Dallas that weekend.

Then, of course, you get to those who believe LHO dreamed this all up and carried it out himself for the personal notoriety and as revenge against a society that he had great disdain for and was, in his mind, shunned by.

Hollywood could never concoct such a character as Lee Harvey Oswald. We'll probably never know with certainty who carried this out which is why the JFK Assassination is always going to have a disproportionate attention placed on it throughout history. It's a drama that has something for everyone (murder, sinister characters, martyrs, sex, innocent or not-so-innocent bystanders - all set on the world's biggest stage). It was also the central moment that awoke America from the post-WWII slumber of absolute trust in government. From the JFK Assassination to Vietnam to Watergate in ten years America (and the media) changed from a trusting people to a distrusting people.

45 posted on 05/17/2003 7:54:48 AM PDT by Tall_Texan (Destroy the Elitist Democrat Guard and the Fedayeen Clinton using the smart bombs of truth!)
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To: JeanS
I'd like to know just what JFK did to warrant being rated one of the greatest Presidents by the Demoncrats. I wonder if they know that Abe was a Republican. Probably not, since 66% of them can't identify any of the present Demoncratic Presidential contenders.
46 posted on 05/17/2003 9:31:21 AM PDT by mass55th
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To: mass55th
I'd like to know just what JFK did to warrant being rated one of the greatest Presidents by the Demoncrats

Simple, he got shot. America tends to make martyrs out of everyday people. I truly believe that had he not been shot, he and the rest of the "Kennedy Dynasty" would be in the dust bin of history. Had Teddy not been a Kennedy, and had his brothers (plural) not been shot, he would probably be in jail.

47 posted on 05/17/2003 9:47:47 AM PDT by codercpc
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To: Tall_Texan
My favorite quote, which I'm probably going to butcher, was by someone who said, "If all the people who hated the Kennedys was at Dealy Plaza that day, It would have sounded like Omaha Beach on D-Day".
48 posted on 05/17/2003 9:50:00 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: AAABEST
We live in a country where opinion is dictated by what is essentially brainwashing. It begins in kindergarten through the education system and continues to the grave through the mainstream media. There is no other explanation for results like this. People have been told for decades how great Kennedy was. Therefore he is. Sickening, eh?

MM

49 posted on 05/17/2003 9:51:16 AM PDT by MississippiMan
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To: codercpc
I agree with you totally.
50 posted on 05/17/2003 10:10:00 AM PDT by mass55th
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