Vatican Confirms Pope Has Parkinson's Disease

Yahoo News (AP) ^ | 16 May 2003 | Yahoo News (AP)

[Pippin]

Thanks, Salvation!

I'm keeping the Pope in my prayers!

[ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton]

Yeah, I agree with you the headline should perhaps read: "Vatican Confirms Pope Has Parkinson's and Is Catholic"

[gcruse]

Atheists, like Theists do their best work when not trying to recruit.

That's a nice thought.  It is, however, flying with the
wind.  And what kind of kiting is that?  ;)

[babygene]

" Parkinson's also affects the mind, sad but true."

Not exactly true... The classical Parkinson’s disease normally does not affect reasoning or memory. The condition is referred to as Parkinson’s syndrome though, because there can be a number of causes for it. The causes range from unknown, to genetic, to several viral infections, to drug abuse to environmental causes and heavy metal poisonings.

If you are talking about classical Parkinson’s disease that old people get (like the pope) it affects neither memory nor judgment. Of course, old people often have memory and judgment problems, but the Parkinson’s disease does not cause them, they just manifest themselves at the same time.

Actually, even the motor functions that are affected by Parkinson’s disease are fairly narrow. For instance, a Parkinson’s patient who can not walk, can often run very smoothly, and often can ride a bike with perfect balance.

Frying your brain with drugs can cause both Parkinson’s symptoms and loss of memory / judgment. (Of course if you had any judgment in the first place, you’d not have used the drugs.)

Parkinson’s symptoms specifically are caused by a deficiency of a chemical in the brain called dopamine. The primary treatment is administrating carbidopa/levodopa orally as often as every two hours. It works really well for about the first five years of treatment, and then most patients develop a side effect to the medication call dyskinesias. This side effect can be almost as debilitating as Parkinson’s. Dyskinesias is involuntary jerky movements of the arms or legs.

My knowledge of this subject is from my experiences as a caregiver for my wife, who has had this disease for 40 years, and going to thousands of Parkinson’s support group meetings.

To those of you who think Parkinson’s means diminished mental abilities, my wife has a patent pending on an electronic stimulator device for the treatment of Dyskinesias. She’s sharp as a tack…

[AlbionGirl]

By definition, recruiting is kiting with the wind.

[FairOpinion]

I am sorry about your wife, but I am glad that she is mentally sharp.

However, some fraction of Parkinson's disease sufferers, as the get older, do develop dementia, and of course some don't, but it appears that as the disease progresses, more and more do.

http://www.parkinson.org/pddement.htm

"Dementia, a global decline in intellect, is among the most feared complications of Parkinson disease. The behavioral consequences of dementia can be painfully obvious. Patients may be confused, disoriented, unable to be left alone. They may be agitated, delusional, moody, and disinhibited. They usually can't sleep at night, and can't stay awake during the day."

[Jhoffa_]

This is not a surprise to anyone who has seen him recently.

He looks incredibly frail and weak. You can tell he used to be a big guy, but now it looks like he barely has strength to move himself.

[babygene]

You are correct that patients with degeneration of the substantia nigra also may have a degeneration of other areas of the brain. (depending on the cause of the degeneration)

However, the clasical parkinson's refers to the brain's ability to produce dopimine, which has nothing to do with these other symptoms. (Other than whatever caused the degeneration in one area, may very well effect another)

Some old folks, regardless of the death of dopimine producing cells, have degeneration of areas of the brain that produce dementia. For the most part, this is just old age...

It is an effect that relates to ageing and the overall health of the brain, not specificly parkinson's disease. It just happens to effect some of the more sucseptible people. However, it's not parkinson's disease. The lack of dopimine (which is what Parkinson's is.) has nothing to do with dementia. It just can occur in some of the same people and may be triggered by the the same underlying problem.

[dsc]

"Atheism isn't a cover for bad behavior, I don't think, as
much as it is the inevitable outcome of unfettered rationality."

You might find it interesting to read G. K. Chesterton on the hazards of unfettered rationality. See "Orthodoxy" and "Heretics." They're available on line.

[dsc]

Double blind scientific experiments show that patients who are prayed for have better outcomes than those who are not, even when they don't know they are being prayed for. More than merely statistically significant, the difference is startling.

'Splain that, Lucy.

[AlbionGirl]

'Splain that, Lucy.

That was orignal and funny. Thanks for the smile, first thing this morning.

I'm not familiar w/the studies you're referring to, but the findings don't surpirse me at all.

And I still can't understand why someone would feel 'duty bound' (think about that phrasing?) to 'jig' the person who believes in prayer into not believing.

If someone doesn't believe in prayer or God, and someone else does, why should that fact mobilize the non-believer to 'act' to convince of an imagined, indisputable imperative of disuse. That seems so abnormal, and smacks of fanaticism.

[gcruse]

If someone can convince me to fetter my rationality, then I deserve to be taken for whatever I have, and will be.

[dsc]

I'm sorry, my note on experiments regarding the efficacy of prayer should have been directed to gcruse. I completely misread your note to him. Then I got up and read your note to me before my coffee, and completely misread that one, too. I'll just go look in the mirror and say, "Duh," a few times now, if that's okay.

"And I still can't understand why someone would feel 'duty bound' (think about that phrasing?) to 'jig' the person who believes in prayer into not believing."

If every duty is essentially a duty to God, how can an atheist have duties?

I remember from my own days wandering in the wilderness, though, a compulsion to attack the faith of others.

[dsc]

"If someone can convince me to fetter my rationality, then I deserve to be taken for whatever I have, and will be."

Well, if you're that secure in your rationality, then you have nothing to fear from reading a couple of short books, surely. Chesterton is a very entertaining writer.

[gcruse]

Well, if you're that secure in your rationality, then you
 have nothing to fear from reading a couple of short books

Open my mind to the possibility of an invisible man in
the sky?  Please.   Been there, done that.  Existentialism
is a stern master with no Big Rock Candy Mountain at the
end, but it goes farther to explaining 'things' than anything else..

[lasereye]

If I can jig someone into questioning the more blatant silliness of religion, such as prayer curing Parkinson's, then I think I am duty bound to try.

How do you know prayer doesn't cure disease? Have you investigated it?

Now, if you want to look at this scientifically though, what you want to do is get a huge number of patients such as Dr. Randolph Byrd did at a major hospital in California, 400 patients with heart attacks, you treat all of them with standard treatment for heart attacks in the coronary care unit, but half of the people get prayed for and half of them don't. If you look at the power of prayer in that kind of instance, it can show there are fewer deaths in the prayed-for group. They don't require as much potent medication such as diuretics and antibiotics, and in this particular study in this prayed-for group, nobody wound up with a tube down the throat being hooked up to a mechanical ventilator, while in this group that didn't get the prayer, there were 12 people who had to have the mechanical ventilator and the tube down the throat, and this sort of thing.

So this is one way you can look at the power of prayer and try to judge how it works. These are double-blind, randomized, controlled experiments so you can really show that there are some dramatic treatment differences.

http://www.futuretalk.org/01/quarter2/05231049.html

[dsc]

"Existentialism is a stern master with no Big Rock Candy Mountain at the end, but it goes farther to explaining 'things' than anything else.."

Sorry, but that is philosophically immature. In the end, existentialism leads only to despair.

Existentialism? Been there, done that.

But you don't seem to show any interest in looking at even one of the very interesting (and free) books I recommended.

[gcruse]

*yawn* Turn the lights out when you leave, will ya?

[dsc]

"Open my mind to the possibility of an invisible man in
the sky?"

I read an article recently (here?) that remarked on the near absence of substantial religious education after childhood.

What that means is that many, believers and unbelievers alike, rely on a child's understanding of theology.

A description of the Christian God as "an invisible man in
the sky" would seem to reflect just that.

It is very easy to reject theology as taught on a child's level, and very easy to pretend that there is nothing more than that to theology.

It is far less easy to persuade skeptics to expose themselves to "grown up" theology.