Skip to comments.Pride Before The Fall (Horowitz Sticks it to the Fundies!)
Posted on 05/20/2003 8:14:33 AM PDT by theoverseer
In four Gospels - including the Sermon on the Mount - Jesus neglected to mention the subject of homosexuality. But that hasnt stopped a handful of self-appointed leaders of the so-called Religious Right from deciding that it is an issue worth the presidency of the United States. In what the Washington Times described as a "stormy session" last week, the Rev. Lou Sheldon, Paul Weyrich, Gary Bauer and eight other "social conservatives" read the riot act to RNC chairman Marc Racicot for meeting with the "Human Rights Campaign," a group promoting legal protections for homosexuals. This indiscretion, they said, "could put Bushs entire re-election campaign in jeopardy."
According to the Times report by Ralph Hallow, the RNC chairman defended himself by saying, "You people dont want me to meet with other folks, but I meet with anybody and everybody." To this Gary Bauer retorted, "That cant be true because you surely would not meet with the leaders of the Ku Klux Klan."
Nice analogy Gary. Way to love thy neighbor.
This demand to quarantine a political enemy might have had more credibility if the target the Campaign for Human Rights -- were busily burning crosses on social conservatives lawns. But they arent. Moreover, the fact that it is, after all, crosses the Ku Klux Klan burns, might suggest a little more humility on the part of Christians addressing these issues. Just before the launching of the 2000 presidential campaign, George Bush himself was asked about similarly mean-spirited Republican attacks. His response was that politicians like him werent elected to pontificate about other peoples morals and that his own faith admonished him to take the beam out of his own eye before obsessing over the mote in someone elses.
The real issue here is tolerance of differences in a pluralistic society. Tolerance is different from approval, but it is also different from stigmatizing and shunning those with whom we disagree.
I say this as someone who is well aware that Christians are themselves a persecuted community in liberal America, and as one who has stood up for the rights of Christians like Paul Weyrich and Gary Bauer to have their views, even when I have not agreed with some of their agendas. Not long ago, I went out on a public limb to defend Paul Weyrich when he was under attack by the Washington Post and other predictable sources for a remark he had made that was (reasonably) construed as anti-Semitic. I defended Weyrich because I have known him to be a decent man without malice towards Jews and I did not want to see him condemned for a careless remark. I defended him in order to protest the way in which we have become a less tolerant and more mean-spirited culture than we were.
I have this to say to Paul: A delegation to the chairman of the RNC to demand that he have no dialogue with the members of an organization for human rights is itself intolerant, and serves neither your ends nor ours. You told Racicot, "if the perception is out there that the party has accepted the homosexual agenda, the leaders of the pro-family community will be unable to help turn out the pro-family voters. It wont matter what we say; people will leave in droves."
This is disingenuous, since you are a community leader and share the attitude you describe. In other words, what you are really saying is that if the mere perception is that the Republican Party has accepted the "homosexual agenda," you will tell your followers to defect with the disastrous consequences that may follow. As a fellow conservative, I do not understand how in good conscience you can do this. Are you prepared to have President Howard Dean or President John Kerry preside over our nations security? Do you think a liberal in the White House is going to advance the agendas of social conservatives? What can you be thinking?
In the second place, the very term "homosexual agenda," is an expression of intolerance as well. Since when do all homosexuals think alike? In fact, thirty percent of the gay population voted Republican in the last presidential election. This is a greater percentage than blacks, Hispanics or Jews. Were these homosexuals simply deluded into thinking that George Bush shared their agendas? Or do they perhaps have agendas that are as complex, diverse and separable from their sexuality as women, gun owners or Christians, for that matter?
In your confusion on these matters, you have fallen into the trap set for you by your enemies on the left. It is the left that insists its radical agendas are the agendas of blacks and women and gays. Are you ready to make this concession -- that the left speaks for these groups, for minorities and "the oppressed?" Isnt it the heart of the conservative argument that liberalism (or, as I would call it, leftism) is bad doctrine for all humanity, not just white Christian males?
If the Presidents party or conservatism itself -- is to prevail in the political wars, it must address the concerns of all Americans and seek to win their hearts and minds. It is conservative values that forge our community and create our coalition, and neither you nor anyone else has - or should have - a monopoly in determining what those values are.
LOL - this oughta be a dandy!!
Really? Tell that to the gaystapo. There should be a stigma placed on certain behaviors. I am sure Horowitz would agree with that. The only difference between Horowitz and Bauer is which behaviors they stigmatize.
Horowitz shouldn't use Scripture he doesn't believe in to make a point against people who do believe in those Scriptures. That's not very tolerant or sensitive.
They wouldn't talk like this to the boss, the Prez. I am aware that the "Human Rights Campaign" is a leftie organization that helped spearhead the Dr. Laura fiasco, they are "EXTREMELY INTOLERANT" of any views that aren't their own.
He doesn't seem to understand that tolerating their behavior is different from encouraging and promoting it.
Wait for him to go soft on abortion as well.
In the second place, the very term "homosexual agenda," is an expression of intolerance as well.
Tolerance for people who are minding their own business is one thing. Tolerance for people who are attempting to force "celebration" of homosexuality is another.
Horowitz's blinders nothwithstanding, there are groups of activists who are tireless in their attempts to portray homosexuality as "good", "normal", and something to be celebrated. Anybody who doesn't share that opinion is tagged with the idiotic epithet "homophobe" and labeled a "hater". Anybody who has religious or other misgivings about how "gay" a homosexual lifestyle is is demonized.
You don't have to be a "fundie" to believe that homosexuality is not good for the people who practice it.
The Human Rights Campaign is not the KKK, but Gary's statement here is correct. Racicot's lame excuse that he'll "meet with anybody" needed to be shown as the empty statement that it was. I think it was a fair thing for Gary to point out.
Either the RNC will be a tool for the pro-family agenda or it will not. It cannot play both sides of the fence.
Earth to Horowitz, Earth to Horowitz: Homos already have legal protections, just like every other American does. What the HRC wants them to have is special protections not afforded to the rest of us.
Disingenuous at best. Jesus didn't mention a lot of sins. Paul, however, does mention homosexuality specifically, several times, turning Horowitz's implication into an outright lie.
If homosexuals simply wanted toleration, there would be no homosexual movement. The same laws against murder, assault, and harrassment are equally applied to protect them the same as anyone else. Most of the thirty percent of homosexuals who vote republican know this or they would be democrats.
This is another case of less than perfect honesty from Horowitz. The homosexuals he is defending are not being attacked by Christians, they are creating a legal framework to ram their lifestyle down the throats of Christians.
If Horowitz wants to defend tolerance, he needs to be preaching to the homosexuals rather than the Christians.
Further, Horowitz is buying the premise that being homosexual is not being a person who behaves homosexually, but being a person with a certain inborn trait. Prove it. And if it is inborn, why is it contrary to that persons physical self -- their biology, physiology, and anatomy? Is that a mistake of nature, or did nature purposely give women a uterus, a menstral cycle, ovaries, etc...plus a desire for only female sex as some sort of cruel joke? How does buying a fake penis to satisfy another woman sexually fit into that "inborn" theory?
I would think someone as educated as Horowitz would at least admit the contrary to nature and science aspect of his theory. Would he equally defend the "civil rights" of people physically attracted to children or animals? What about the civil rights of persons who desire group sex or violent sex as long as the partner consented?
In the second place, the very term "homosexual agenda," is an expression of intolerance as well.
Labelling that expression intolerant was actually fairly intolerant on your part, David.
I know my pointing that out could also be construed as intolerant, but it still needed to be said.
I hope I didnt step on anybodys toes by pointing that out. (BTW, in no way did I mean for my use of that expression to imply that I am anything less than completely tolerant of those who lack toes, due to accident, illness or genetic diversity.)
However, this group of leaders is not the least bit helpful to advancing their issues, when they attempt such ham-handed strong-arming of the RNC and publish "open letters" which are counter-productive.
And Gary Bauer, who somehow found John McCain worthy of support, is beginning to sound like Mr. Sour Grapes to me.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.