Smoking Ban Cutting NY Lottery Sales - Business UNITES

AP - Boston.com ^ | May 22 2003 | AP - Boston

[Outraged At FLA]

Albany -- New York lost more than $500,000 in lottery sales after hundreds of bars and restaurants unplugged their lottery machines to protest the statewide smoking ban in businesses, officials said Thursday.

The protest was meant to deprive the state of revenue from the Quick Draw game and publicize bar and restaurant owners' concerns that the smoking ban will hurt business, said Scott Wexler of the Empire State Restaurant and Tavern Association.

[Outraged At FLA]

If this was already posted, feel free to delete, I searched and searched, so blame FR's search engine, not me! :P

""It's a shame that the retailers aren't getting their commission and it's a shame that the schools aren't getting the 25 cents of every dollar that they would have been getting," Hapeman said."

This is the funniest line of the entire article! I guess NYS doesn't think it is a shame about all the livelyhoods they are destroying with this arcane smoking ban they are trying to push down our throats!

[Outraged At FLA]

Its funny that this article comes out shortly after:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/23/nyregion/23SMOK.html?ex=1054353600&en=f31c46527b5f3065&ei=5062

EXCERPT:

State legislators are considering two proposals that would weaken a new state smoking ban by allowing people to light up in bars and restaurants that build stand-alone smoking rooms, or are operated by their owners.

[noutopia]

Once you get rid of the smoking ban,get rid of the Hildabeast,you people scare us with the way you vote.

[FreeRadical]

Related Stories:

State's smoking ban draws protest

NYC Smoking Ban: Stick Your Butt in Bloomberg's Face!

Passive smoking risks in doubt, study says

Cig Cops to Pack it in at 11p.m.

Thanks for the post. This is kind of a pet issue of mine so above is a tiny bit of stewardship for the thread.

The only good thing I know about the smoking ban stuff is it sure does make it e.z. to spot bad guys. Stand up and say you believe you have a right to clean air in someone else's private space and, ding ding, we've got a positive ident: stupid, meddling, state teat suckin scum.

[FreeRadical]

Oops, I forgot this one: 

Protest 'Draws' 100G from State (NY Bar Owners Fight Back)

Cool to see that lost rev number getting bigger...

[heleny]

it's a shame that the schools aren't getting the 25 cents of every dollar that they would have been getting," Hapeman said.

I don't know about NY, but if they are like California, then there will be no difference in education funding. In CA, the lottery money simply replaces what the state would have spent on education. If more people buy lottery tickets, then the increased revenues offset the amount CA is obligated to pay for education, thereby freeing more money for our legislature to waste on long-term pork programs.

[Captain Shady]

From the Associaated Press yesterday.Don't blame the cigarette companies if you can't read the warning on side of pack.

Article published May 22, 2003
Court throws out $145 billion tobacco verdict

CATHERINE WILSON
AP Business Writer

MIAMI -- A Florida appeals court erased a record-setting $145 billion award against the tobacco industry Wednesday, ruling thousands of Florida smokers could not group themselves together for a class-action attack on cigarette makers.
Tobacco company stock prices jumped on news that the 68-page order by a three-judge panel of the 3rd District Court of Appeal found several flaws with the largest punitive damage verdict in U.S. history and the two-year trial that produced it.
R.J. Reynolds Tobacco, the nation's second-largest cigarette company with brands like Winston and Camels, issued a statement calling the ruling "a major victory for the tobacco industry."
"Tobacco couldn't have wished for a more positive decision," said Martin Feldman, tobacco analyst at Merrill Lynch.
But Mark Gottlieb, an attorney with the anti-smoking Tobacco Products Liability Project at Northeastern University's law school, called the decision "a terrible blow" to Florida's sick smokers.
Margaret Amodeo, whose husband Frank lost his $5.8 million compensatory damage award for throat cancer under the ruling, said they were "very disappointed." He was too hoarse to speak. The decision discarded two other individual awards as well.
Janine Goluba, whose late mother had won a $3.5 million award, said the decision was "beyond my comprehension. ... Lie, cheat, deceive and still be able to be on top."
The six-member Miami jury decided almost three years ago that cigarettes are deadly, addictive and defective because they make people sick when used as directed. It set punitive damages for an estimated 300,000 to 700,000 smokers after deciding compensatory damages for Frank Amodeo and two other cancer victims who served as representatives of the group.
But the appeals court agreed with the tobacco industry that the class was unmanageable, found the award would have violated state law by bankrupting the companies, called the trial plan unconstitutional and chided the smokers' attorney, Stanley Rosenblatt, for making racially charged appeals to four black jurors.
He had made references to the Holocaust and slavery while discussing the sale of cigarettes.
Rosenblatt and his wife, Susan, who also represented the smokers, were out of town Wednesday and could not be reached for comment. They have the option of asking the full appeals court to review the case.
The court said that while cigarette makers were accused of similar fraudulent conduct, there are enough differences among smokers' cases that they shouldn't be allowed to sue together. The court called its conclusion "inescapable."
William S. Ohlemeyer, vice president of Philip Morris USA, the maker of industry-leading Marlboros, said the ruling "is in line with the country's legal mainstream."
"This decision clearly shows we were right," said Mark Smith, a spokesman for Brown & Williamson Tobacco Corp., whose cigarette brands include Kool, Pall Mall and Lucky Strike.
"We feel that we've been completely vindicated in every respect," said Ronald Milstein, vice president and general counsel of Loews Corp.'s Lorillard Tobacco, maker of Kent and Newport cigarettes.
He said the verdict "was fundamentally flawed from the very beginning" and "was a travesty of justice."
Liggett spokeswoman Brandy Bergman said the company was "pleased with the court's decision."
In trading on the New York Stock Exchange, shares for Philip Morris' parent Altria Group rose $3.39, or 9.7 percent, to close at $38.30; R.J. Reynolds shares gained $1.57, or 5 percent, to $33.28; and Loews shares rose $1.82, or 4.3 percent, to $44.10.
Gottlieb called the decision "very surprising" because the same court created the class in 1996 and refused once before to reconsider its decision. In the meantime, many other courts nationally have denied class-action status for smokers.
Asked about the court's flip-flop, attorney Alvin Davis, who argued the appeal for cigarette makers, said: "They were dealing with everything on almost a hypothetical basis when it went up the first time. Now they have a record that demonstrates all of the flaws."
Philip Morris hopes the decision will bolster its challenge to a $10.1 billion verdict in an Illinois class-action lawsuit by 1.1 million Illinois smokers who claimed they were tricked into believing light cigarettes were less harmful than regular brands.
Even with tobacco's victory in the Florida case, Philip Morris, Lorillard and Liggett are out $710 million. After trial, the three companies agreed to pay that nonrefundable amount to keep Florida smokers from challenging the constitutionality of a new state law on appeal bonds enacted during the case. No structure has been created for distribution of the money.
"At the time, it made sense for us," said Ohlemeyer. "It demonstrates how important it was for us to get to the appellate court."
When the appellate process ends, the industry will get back another $1.2 billion deposited with the court to appeal, a tiny fraction of what it would have been required to pay without a change in the law.
Public policy has been moving against Big Tobacco. The World Health Organization is pushing governments to adopt sweeping anti-smoking restrictions, and several states have banned smoking in most indoor workplaces and restaurants and boosted taxes on cigarettes.
The major tobacco companies settled state lawsuits for smoking-related health care costs in 1998 for a total of $246 billion.
In October, a Los Angeles jury ruled that Philip Morris USA should pay $28 billion to a 45-year smoker with lung cancer, but a judge reduced it to $28 million. Cigarette makers face more than 1,000 lawsuits by individual smokers.

[George W. Bush]

Nice links. Keep posting this stuff. I wonder why these lawyers aren't suing the states for licensing and profiting from tobacco. After all, they have always been deeply involved in the tobacco and alcohol trade.

[evad]

I don't know about NY, but if they are like California, then there will be no difference in education funding. In CA, the lottery money simply replaces what the state would have spent on education. If more people buy lottery tickets, then the increased revenues offset the amount CA is obligated to pay for education, thereby freeing more money for our legislature to waste on long-term pork programs

That is EXACTLY how it works in ALL states.

It's like the UGF pretense that you can DIRECT your contribution to a particular charity. Sure you can...and then they take that amount of money from the general fund that they would have normally given to that charity and put it where ever they choose.

It's all a mirage.

[N. Theknow]

it's a shame that the schools aren't getting the 25 cents of every dollar that they would have been getting," Hapeman said."

What a shame!

The state won't be taking a dollar from parents and giving 25 cents of it to schools.

Oh, the pain and suffering as the once profitable mob business of playing the numbers has now been taken over by.......a bigger mob.

[goldstategop]

Let's not forget the massive tax increases on New Yorkers pushed through by tax happy Dems and RINOs in the New York State Legislature. Serves' em right and I don't feel particularly feel their pain. Matter of fact I'm relishing for a change the arrogant SOBs incessant whining.

[lelio]

"A lot of them (customers) are saving money from not losing money on Quick Draw and they have more money to spend on drinking," Shastany said.
Yikes, the cat it out of the bag. Bars are going to realize that the lottery machines aren't bringing in the people (and at 6 cents net / play I think that about pays for the electricity to run the thing) and not bring them back. More money in the bar owner's pocket.
Look for a lift on the smoking ban, but only for bars with lotto machines.

[freekitty]

Too bad; so sad.

[LaineyDee]

Dallas needs to try this as well. Laura Miller imposed the same type of ban....against the rantings of the restaurant and hotel associations. Her attitude is the same as Bloomberg's. Disgusting. One hotel lost a huge revenue, right off the bat..... I think it was the Phillip Morris convention who cancelled in protest.

[Sicon]

Margaret Amodeo, whose husband Frank lost his $5.8 million compensatory damage award for throat cancer under the ruling, said they were "very disappointed."

So because her husband was too stupid to know that cigarette smoking is dangerous, or too weak to quit, they should get $5.8 million? My grandmother smoked from the time she was 13 to the time she died at 87, and she never had any cancer, emphysema, or any other "smoking-related" illness. My father smoked for over 40 years, and is now 75, and has never had any "smoking-related" illnesses. And if he did, it'd be his problem, because it was his choice to smoke. I don't care if the tobacco companies DID try to make cigarettes MORE addictive. So what? It is each individual's responsibility to make such decisions (to start smoking or not) for themselves, and to deal with the consequences of those choices. That's part of what freedom is all about.

[b4its2late]

They claim to be using the sales tax from cigs to help pay for medicaid. No wonder my taxes are going up to fund medicaid. All the smokers are quitting!

[bert]

The solution is civil disobedience. Go ahead and smoke and disregard the smoking police.

. if a customer complains, show them the door.

[Gabz]

PING!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gabz]

good links.

Stand up and say you believe you have a right to clean air in someone else's private space and, ding ding, we've got a positive ident: stupid, meddling, state teat suckin scum.

While you're right it's a good way to spot the bad guys - the problem is that these people do not consider a bar or restaurant private property - the definitions of public and private have totally blurred in the face of this issue.

[Gabz]

It's being done in Delaware.

[SheLion]

I sure hope this works!

[Conspiracy Guy]

If the smokers would go buy their smokes elsewhere that would really cut some revenue.

[FreeRadical]

the problem is that these people do not consider a bar or restaurant private property - the definitions of public and private have totally blurred in the face of this issue.

This "blurring" is precisely what makes pro smoking ban people bad people.  
They know a bar or restaurant is private property.   They know full well.  It's just that they are not getting things exactly their way if there is smoke in the air.  So, oh, lord above, something must be done. Admittedly, some are merely stupid, but the vast majority of smoking ban people are, by definition, evil.  They know what is right and wrong and they choose wrong.  

[Gabz]

If the smokers would go buy their smokes elsewhere that would really cut some revenue.

Better yet - make your own. Not only are you not paying the exhorbitant cigarette taxes (you still pay some tax, but loose tobacco is taxed differently) you avoid paying the extra 45cents per pack to cover the coasts of the Master Settlement Agreeement.

[Tumbleweed_Connection]

It's an Arturo Fuente morning.

[Great Dane]

It's a shame that the retailers aren't getting their commission and it's a shame that the schools aren't getting the 25 cents of every dollar that they would have been getting," Hapeman said.

Gee, yesterday it was a mere 6 cents on the dollar.

[Gabz]

You won't get an argument from me on that.

[Conspiracy Guy]

I think I'll start. Send me more info on products. I haven't rolled a cigarette since the early 70's.

[metesky]

State legislators are considering two proposals that would weaken a new state smoking ban by allowing people to light up in bars and restaurants that build stand-alone smoking rooms, or are operated by their owners.

See my bar here? I hereby proclaim the entire bar a stand alone smoking room.

[Gabz]

She Lion - I need your incredible set of links for making your own cigarettes. I don't have mine handy.

Flurry - the outfit we use to purchase our machine, a supematicII is www.abstobaccoshop.com

And we purchase our tobacco from a local tobacco/cigarette outlet.

Our cigarettes run between 6 and 7 dollars a carton and it takes my husband about an hour watching TV to make a carton for himself and a bit longer for me because I prefer 100s.

[Outraged At FLA]

"If the smokers would go buy their smokes elsewhere that would really cut some revenue."

That's what the Internet is for! The state and especially NYC where smokes are 6-7 dollars a pack are losing money daily by people either purchasing from the Internet, or the new tobacco black market created by the Nazi's.

"They know a bar or restaurant is private property. They know full well. It's just that they are not getting things exactly their way if there is smoke in the air. "

This is exactly the point. A restaurant or bar is not a public place, it is a private establishment. The smoking Nazi's in my area were real happy when they passed the smoking bans in restaurants a couple years ago. When having a conversation with one of them, I told them, fine, I just won't go to dinner in Dutchess county, I will go to Ulster county instead.

When you say that, they give you that look like they are trying to think of a way to ruin that for you and force you somehow to go to the nonsmoking restaurant.

I have stopped going to many of my old favorite restaurants because of their no smoking bans, and that list will increase to almost 100% if and when this new state law goes into effect. Same for the bars.

If the state legislatures really think this will not hurt business (sometimes I doubt they really believe that), they will soon find out different.

[ImphClinton]

But isn't making cigarettes more addictive depriving you of at least some of that freedon. Many have been unable to quit smoking even after many attempts.

If the companies made the cigarettes less addictive their sales would drop. Thus to keep sales increasing they made them more addictive. This was a financial decission and they were knowingly stopping smokers from quitting. Seems they do bare some responsibility.

Don't get me wrong though I am very happy this was overturned. It was way too much money. The smoker was more responsible than the manufacturer.

In a fair world the CEO's and others that decided to addict more somkers and thus kill them would be sentenced to death for murder. But the rich are almost always protected from the many crimes they commit. A rich man steals 500 Million from a bank through fraud and a meaningless fine or in some cases three years or so. A poor man robs the same bank and spends many years in prison.

[Conspiracy Guy]

Thanks. $3-4.00 a pack because of layers and layers of tax is getting old.

[Gabz]

If the state legislatures really think this will not hurt business (sometimes I doubt they really believe that), they will soon find out different.

Oh, they know all right - they just don't care. I actually received a letter from the Governor of Delaware - it was a form letter, everyone I know got the same one - that stated they KNEW business would be hurt with the ban.

In Delaware the smoking ban has been good for a number of bars and restaurants - those that are near the state line in MARYLAND and PENNSYLVANIA.

I lived in Delaware for 21 years and last month moved to Virginia - about an hour from the Delaware line - so I hear the stories down here from folks about how hard hit the bars and restaurants are in Delaware, and I had already known that before I moved.

[Gabz]

Another alternative, at least temporarily is to purchase cigarettes made by the S&M Brands cigarette company out of Kellysville, VA.

They are much cheaper than PM or RJR because they don't pay into the Master Settlement Agreement. Their 2 brands are Bailey's and Tahoe. The taxes are still there, but not the excess MSA money. In both Delaware and Virginia they run more than $10 less a carton than the majors and the Tahoes are another 42-3 bucks cheaper.

[Outraged At FLA]

"I lived in Delaware for 21 years and last month moved to Virginia"

You wont have to worry about any smoking bans there, thats for sure!

[Conspiracy Guy]

I clicked to the site and started checking it out. It's not the money. It's where it's going. Maybe this is the answer to all the government interferrence. They have started their Nazi Radio Brainwashing here in Alabama. I'm sure settlement money is paying for the crap propaganda and it's getting on my nerves. Called my C&W radio station yesterday and told them if they continue to run the ad's they lose a listener, then followed up with email. The person on the phone said she was getting a lot of calls on the subject, she said this is bigger than the Dixie Chicks thing (they haven't been played here in months). So I'm hopeful.

[Madame Dufarge]

New York lost more than $500,000 in lottery sales after hundreds of bars and restaurants unplugged their lottery machines to protest the statewide smoking ban in businesses, officials said Thursday.

I love these guys (sniff).

[cake_crumb]

" 'A lot of them (customers) are saving money from not losing money on Quick Draw and they have more money to spend on drinking,' Shastany said"

Not if they refuse to sit in the bar and play quick draw they won't.

[Outraged At FLA]

Bump.

[Outraged At FLA]

Another point being illustrated here is that the state will lose this money if people stop going to these places because they cannot smoke. If they don't go, they can't play. If that idea sinks in, the strapped for cash legislature might (let me emphasize might) start thinking it over.

[cake_crumb]

"State legislators are considering two proposals that would weaken a new state smoking ban by allowing people to light up in bars and restaurants that build stand-alone smoking rooms, or are operated by their owners"

Geeeeee, how nice of the morality police running New York State to give a theoretic possibility of a hypothetical nod to PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNERSHIP sometime in the possible in the future.

[Criminal Number 18F]

watches as numbers are randomly drawn by a computer.

Well, in that case turning the machines off probably saves the patrons money, too. A computer cannot produce truly random numbers (as anyone who's played WIndows Solitaire has probably noticed).

Here in Mass. the lottery has been totally corrupt. Not to praise La Cosa Nostra, but when they ran the numbers there was more integrity in it. You might as well light money on fire and call it performance art as gamble it with a state enterprise.

It certainly was a clever protest by the bar owners, though.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

[cake_crumb]

"If that idea sinks in, the strapped for cash legislature might (let me emphasize might) start thinking it over."

You forgot to emphasize "if"...

From what I know about New York, they're liable to try to raise the state sales tax even higher than it is now (not counting the local sales taxes added to that)

The really frightening thing is that these idiots never saw this coming as a consequense of their Gestapo legislation. These people seem to have been BLINDSIDED by the totally obvious!

[Captain Shady]

It is each individual's responsibility to make such decisions (to start smoking or not) for themselves, and to deal with the consequences of those choices. That's part of what freedom is all about.

Yes ,exactly

[Outraged At FLA]

"A computer cannot produce truly random numbers "

That was evident when the NYS lotto (pick 3 I believe?) picked the numbers 911 on Sept 11th 2002. Coincidence?

[Madame Dufarge]

Not to praise La Cosa Nostra, but when they ran the numbers there was more integrity in it.

Here's the money, see you next week - and no 1099.

[Madame Dufarge]

That's part of what freedom is all about.

Careful, you're going to scare a lot of people around here.

[Outraged At FLA]

Of course, freedom scares most of the world. :)

[Gabz]

You wont have to worry about any smoking bans there, thats for sure!

At least not in the part of Virginia I moved to!!!!!

The DelMarVa penninsula is generally treated as the red-headed step child of all 3 states.