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The Truth About Jonathan Pollard
Moment ^ | Received in e-mail 5/23/2003 | John Loftus

Posted on 05/23/2003 8:58:26 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator

When American intelligence broke the Soviet wartime code, we learned that the Soviets had infiltrated the American government. The American intelligence community’s penchant for secrecy and its refusal to admit that it had been infiltrated was so great that it failed to disclose this to President Harry S. Truman. This is how Daniel Patrick Moynihan described it:

"The Soviets knew we knew they knew we knew. The only one who didn’t know was the President of the United States. Our politics was injured for 30 years by this."—Quoted in the New York Times, March 30, 2002

here is a good reason why neither Congress nor the American Jewish leadership supports the release of Jonathan Pollard from prison: They all were told a lie—a humongous Washington whopper of a lie. The lie was first whispered in the "bubble," the secret intelligence briefing room on Capitol Hill, but it quickly spread.

Just before Pollard’s sentencing, Senator Chic Hecht of Nevada, a senior member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, telephoned the leaders of every major Jewish organization to warn them not to support Pollard in any way. Pollard had done something so horrible that it could never be made public. Several senior intelligence sources confirmed the message: No matter how harsh the sentence, Jewish leaders had to keep their mouths shut; don’t make a martyr out of Jonathan Pollard.

Washington insiders thought they knew the big, dark secret. David Luchins, an aide to Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan, announced to reporters that he had seen "secret documents confirming that Pollard’s spying had resulted in the loss of lives of U.S. intelligence agents." Luchins later recanted his statement, but not until the damage had already been done.

Pollard had supposedly given Israel a list of every American spy inside the Soviet Union. On several occasions Soviet agents in New York had posed as Israelis. The CIA reasoned that that was also true in Israel: The Mossad had been infiltrated by one or more Soviet spies. In the trade this is called a "false flag" operation: Your enemy poses as your ally and steals your secrets. In this case, the CIA reasoned in attempting to explain its horrendous losses, Pollard had passed the information to Israel he had stolen, which in turn fell victim to the "false flag" operation. Soviet agents in Israel, posing as Israeli intelligence agents, passed the information to Moscow, which then wiped out American human assets in the Soviet Union.

Pollard hadn’t meant for this to happen, but the result of the "false flag" mistake was mass murder. In a matter of months, every spy we had in Russia—more than 40 agents—had been captured or killed. At least that was the accusation, but the basis for it had been kept secret from Pollard and his defense counsel.

The public could not be told the horrifying truth: American intelligence had gone blind behind the Iron Curtain—we had lost all our networks, as the intelligence community publicly admitted more than a decade later. The Soviets could have attacked the United States without warning. Everyone who knew at the time (including me) blamed Pollard.

On March 5, 1987, at 2:22 p.m., the sentencing hearing in U.S. District Court in Washington, D.C., began in Criminal Case No. 86-207, United States of America v. Jonathan Jay Pollard. The prosecutors produced a secret letter and memo from Secretary of Defense Caspar "Cap" Weinberger referring to the "enormous" harm that Pollard had done to our national security. In his memo, Weinberger directly accused Pollard of betraying America’s "sources and methods," which is to say, he had betrayed our spies in foreign countries.

Weinberger publicly stated that Pollard was the worst spy in American history: "It is difficult for me, even in the so-called year of the spy, to conceive of a greater harm to national security than that caused by the defendant." Despite his plea agreement to the contrary with the government, Pollard was given the maximum sentence, life in prison. Weinberger later said that he wished Pollard had been shot.

A week after the sentencing, the Washington Times reported that the United States had identified Shabtai Kalmanovich as the Soviet spy in Israel who supposedly worked for the Mossad but was actually working for the KGB; he had betrayed American secrets to Moscow. Kalmanovich had been flying under a false flag. Washington insiders winked knowingly at one another: Pollard’s contact in Israel had been caught.

Just to make sure that Pollard was blamed, U.S. intelligence sources, several months later, leaked word to the press of the Kalmanovich connection. "A Russian mole has infiltrated the Mossad and is transmitting highly sensitive American intelligence information to the Russians," was the report flashed around the world by United Press International on Dec. 14, 1987. Citing "American intelligence sources," the UPI announced that the "sensitive intelligence material relayed to Israel by Jonathan Pollard had reached the KGB."

But it was all untrue. Every bit of it. Pollard wasn’t the serial killer. The Jew didn’t do it. It was one of their own WASPs—Aldrich Ames, a drunken senior CIA official who sold the names of America’s agents to the Russians for cash. Pollard was framed for Ames’s crime, while Ames kept on drinking and spying for the Soviets for several more years. In fact, Israeli intelligence later suspected that Ames played a direct role in framing Pollard. But no one in America then knew the truth.

Ames was arrested in February 1994, and confessed to selling out American agents in the Soviet Union, but not all of them. It was only logical to assume that Pollard had betrayed the rest of them, as one former CIA official admitted shortly after Ames’s arrest. Even one life lost was too many. So Pollard continued to rot in jail. No one dreamed that yet another high-level Washington insider had sold us out to Soviet intelligence. Years passed, and eventually a Russian defector told the truth. A senior FBI official—Special Agent Robert Hanssen—had betrayed the rest of our agents. Hanssen was arrested in February 2001, and soon confessed in order to avoid the death penalty. He was sentenced to life in prison without parole.

Would the Americans now admit that they had been conned into blaming Pollard? Beltway bureaucrats do not readily admit to mistakes of this magnitude. Instead, they convinced themselves that Pollard might still be at least partly to blame for the worst debacle in U.S. intelligence history. One desperate analyst from the National Security Council, looking for something to pin on Pollard, had his own theory. Maybe the Russians didn’t initially believe that their own spies (Ames and Hanssen) had procured all the names of U.S. agents in the Soviet Union. Maybe Pollard’s list tipped the scales.

Such things had happened before. Once again, Washington insiders circled their alphabet agencies to fire back at the critics who dared to suggest that Pollard might have been innocent of the major charge against him.

Meanwhile, deep inside the Navy’s intelligence service, a low-level decision was made to re-examine the Pollard case in view of the convictions of Ames and Hanssen. With sickening chagrin, the Navy discovered that the evidence needed to clear Pollard had been under its nose all along.

As my source in Naval intelligence explained, the list of our secret agents inside Russia had been kept in a special safe in a special room with a special "blue stripe" clearance needed for access. When I was a lawyer in the Justice Department and would be sent over to the CIA to do research, I was permitted to use only a blue-striped, CIA-issue legal pad for note-taking. Nothing with a blue stripe could leave the building without being scrutinized by CIA security.

But Jonathan Pollard didn’t have "blue stripe" clearance, according to intelligence sources I spoke with. That was the bombshell that would clear him of any possible connection to the deaths of our Russian agents. [Emphasis added]

Just to make sure, I checked it out, even visiting Pollard in prison to confirm it. Sure enough, there is no way on earth Jonathan Pollard could have entered the file room, let alone the safe where the list was kept.

But the intelligence community’s failure to catch this and thereby discredit a critical piece of prosecutorial evidence was, to put it mildly, a bit of an oversight. Some would say it was an obscene blunder. I regard it as an understandable mistake that was overlooked in the avalanche of phony evidence the KGB was planting that pointed to Pollard and away from Ames and Hanssen, whom the Soviets wanted to protect. Both of them had "blue stripe" clearance, as was well documented in several books that have been written on each man and his exploits.

The lack of "blue stripe" clearance was the final proof that Pollard could not possibly have betrayed our Russian agents. It should certainly have gotten him a new hearing. As a former federal prosecutor, I can state that it would be hard to rebut this kind of evidence. [Emphasis added]

The Justice Department, in one of its briefs, had specifically mentioned the "false flag" theory as grounds to support Pollard’s heavy sentence, arguing in part, that spying even for friendly countries can be damaging if information ultimately falls into the wrong hands. In this, the Justice Department had unwittingly misled the judge. Weinberger also raised the "false flag" issue in his top-secret memorandum to the judge.

The only possible way to uphold the sentence might be the "harmless error" doctrine. The government could admit that Pollard had never stolen the Russian agent list, but so what? Maybe he had passed other information that was equally damaging, so he would still deserve to remain in prison for the rest of his life.

The problem with the "harmless error" strategy is that the rest of the material that Pollard gave the Israelis was itself pretty harmless.

In fact, the original damage assessment from the intelligence community confirmed that the impact on our national security—of the release of information other than the agent names—was not serious. This assessment came after Pollard’s initial grand jury appearance, but before the Soviets began to frame Pollard with the phony Kalmanovich connection. No less a figure than Assistant U.S. Attorney Charles Leeper had characterized damage caused by the release of the information that Pollard actually gave Israel as "minimal."

The reason America suffered so little harm is simple: Pollard was stealing Soviet secrets for Israel, not American secrets for the Soviets. Before the fall of communism, the Soviets were shipping guns to nearly every terrorist group in the Middle East. Pollard knew that U.S. intelligence had been ordered to share this information with Israel—under an executive order signed by President Reagan—but had not done so. [Emphasis added]

In fact, as Pollard himself admitted in one of my three prison interviews, many, if not most, of the documents he handed over were cover sheets showing the titles of files that the U.S. was supposed to share with Israel, but were holding back. (The U.S government, according to Israeli intelligence sources, mistakenly counted the cover sheets as if they were full files and came up with the mythical "room full of stolen documents," instead of the small boxfulls or so that Pollard actually passed.) In the long run, though, the issue is not how many boxes Pollard passed, but whether anything he gave Israel did harm to America.

After the government’s "false flag" theory was blown up by the "blue stripe" discovery, the anti-Pollard members of the intelligence community had to come up with a new PR campaign for damage control. In order to justify Pollard’s life sentence, they had to show that he did do some potentially catastrophic damage to America. What they came up with was a bit of a stretch. Pollard had given Israel a set of radio frequency guidebooks, a worldwide listing of short-wave radio bands. It takes a lot of time and money to compile one of these guides, but essentially they are just publicly available information, openly deduced by listening to who is talking to whom on which radio bands.

Seymour Hersh is a famous reporter and long-time friend. (I was his secret source in his 1983 book The Price of Power—Kissinger in Nixon’s White House (Summit Books). But Sy had his leg pulled on Pollard by his CIA sources, as a result of which Sy published a story in the New Yorker in January 1999 claiming that these radio guides were just about the crown jewels of U.S. intelligence. The truth is that certain portions of the guide had already been sold to the Soviets by the Walker spy ring, according to courtroom testimony, which also revealed that the Soviets thought so little of the guides’ value that they did not even bother to ask their top spies, Ames and Hanssen, to steal the remainder of the set. Moreover, as previously noted, the government’s own damage assessment report originally concluded that the loss of the guides was a minor matter.

So much for the crown jewels. If that is the best spin the intelligence community can come up with, Pollard is probably entitled to immediate release for time served. The truth is that without the "false flag" theory, and the accompanying "worst spy in history" hysteria, Pollard would probably have been served no more than five years in prison. He has already served 18 years.

After 9/11, though, I began to realize that Pollard’s tale was only the beginning of a much bigger story about a major America intelligence scandal, which is the subject of a book I am now working on. Although Jonathan Pollard did not realize it, he had stumbled across the darkest secret in the Reagan administration’s closet. It is one of the reasons that I am serving as the intelligence advisor on a trillion-dollar federal lawsuit filed in August 2002 against the Saudis on behalf of the victims of 9/11.

Pollard in fact did steal something that the U.S. government never wishes to talk about. Several friends inside military intelligence have told me that Pollard gave the Israelis a roster that listed the identities of all the Saudi and other Arab intelligence agents we knew about as of 1984. (This has been corroborated by Israeli sources, as well.) At that time, this list, known in intelligence circles as the "blue book," would have been relatively unimportant to the United States—but not to Israel.

Since 9/11, however, Pollard’s "blue book" is of profound interest to everyone, including the U.S. These particular agents are now a major embarrassment to the Saudis and to the handful of American spy chiefs who had employed these Saudi intelligence agents on the sly. Some of the names on this list—such as Osama Bin Laden—turned out to be leaders of terrorist groups, including the Muslim Brotherhood and what we now call Al Qaeda.

In hindsight, we now know that Pollard stole the one book—that, incidentally, was alluded to in Weinberger’s secret memorandum—that unquestionably proves that the Americans knew as early as 1984 about the connection between the Saudis and terrorist groups. [Emphasis added]

How does this all fit together? During the Reagan-Bush administrations, the National Security Council wanted to throw the Soviets out of Afghanistan using Arab soldiers instead of American. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but no one thought about the long-term consequences. In imitation of the Soviet strategy of hiring terrorists, we asked the Saudis to recruit a proxy army of Islamic terrorists whom we would supply with guns and pay indirectly, according to intelligence sources. By having the Saudis hire the "freedom fighters," we could avoid embarrassing questions in Congress about giving the taxpayers money to known Arab terrorists.

In 1982, I went on "60 Minutes" to expose Nazi war criminals I had been assigned to prosecute who were then working for the CIA. It was one of those Cold War blunders. The CIA didn’t have a clue it was dealing with Nazi war criminals. It thought they were "freedom ighters." In 1985, I ended up testifying before the U.S. House Judiciary Committee about Nazis on the intelligence payroll.

Sadly, the only lesson the intelligence bosses learned was to put the bad guys on someone else’s payroll (the Saudis for one), and then reimburse them under the table. Because of my whistle-blowing during the early 1980s, the CIA was still pretty sensitive about hiring Nazi "freedom fighters" without background checks, so they were mostly kept out of the loop about the Arab terrorists hired clandestinely by the Saudis to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan.

The Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan in 1989. The naive Americans walked away from the Frankenstein monster they had created, but the cynical Saudis kept the terrorists on the payroll. From the Saudi perspective, it was safer to keep paying the terrorists groups to attack Israel, Bosnia or Chechnya rather than letting them all back into Saudi Arabia. As one U.S. intelligence bureaucrat cynically confided to me, "Sure we knew that the Saudis were giving money to terrorist groups, but they were only killing Jews, they weren’t killing Americans."

In this "Keystone Cops" affair, one wing of U.S. intelligence was hunting terrorists while another winked at the Saudis’ recruitment of them. I have spoken to numerous FBI and CIA counter-terrorist agents, all of whom tell a similar story. Whenever the FBI or CIA came close to uncovering the Saudi terrorist connection, their investigations were mysteriously terminated. In hindsight, I can only conclude that some of our own Washington bureaucrats have been protecting the Al Qaeda leadership and their oil-rich Saudi backers from investigation for more than a decade.

I am not the only one to reach this conclusion. In his autobiography, Oliver North confirmed that every time he wanted to do something about terrorism, Weinberger stopped him because it might upset the Saudis and jeopardize the flow of oil to the U.S. John O’Neill, a former FBI agent and our nation’s top Al Qaeda expert, stated in a 2001 book written by Jean Charles Brisard, a noted French intelligence analyst, that everything we wanted to know about terrorism could be found in Saudi Arabia. [Emphasis added]

O’Neill warned the Beltway bosses repeatedly that if the Saudis were to continue funding Al Qaeda, it would end up costing American lives, according to several intelligence sources. As long as the oil kept flowing, they just shrugged. Outraged by the Saudi cover-up, O’Neill quit the FBI and became the new chief of security at the World Trade Center. In a bitter irony, the man who could have exposed his bosses’ continuous cover-up of the Saudi-Al Qaeda link was himself killed by Al Qaeda on 9/11.

Congress has been told repeatedly that American intelligence never knew the identities of the Arabs who threw the Soviets out of Afghanistan. Inadvertently, Pollard stole the ultimate smoking gun that shows exactly what the leaders of our intelligence community knew and when they knew it [emphasis added]. The "blue book" Pollard stole flatly establishes that all the dots were connected many years before 9/11, and the only thing the intelligence chiefs did competently was cover up the fact that we had long known about the Saudi-terrorist link.

In the ultimate irony, Pollard may have to be let out of prison to testify before Congress about the negligence of his own superiors. Like O’Neill, Pollard had tried to warn his superiors that a wave of terrorism was coming out of the Middle East, but no one would listen. Pollard himself told me this. Pollard has admitted—to me and in writing to President Clinton—that he was wrong and stupid in passing the information to Israel on his own, but in the long run he may have committed the most unpardonable sin of all: He was right and the bureaucrats were wrong. [Emphasis added]

Pollard never thought he was betraying his country. And he never did, although he clearly violated its laws. He just wanted to help protect Israelis and Americans from terrorists. Now in prison for nearly two decades, Pollard, who is in his late 40s, grows more ill year by year. If, as seems likely, American bureaucrats choose to fight a prolonged delaying action over a new hearing, Pollard will probably die in prison. There are people in power inside the Beltway who have been playing for time. Time for them ran out on 9/11. Sooner or later, they are going to be held accountable. I hope that Pollard lives to see it.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Government; Israel
KEYWORDS: alqaeda; alqaida; antisemitism; cokehead; fatspy; hanghim; israel; pollard; saud; saudi; saudis; scapegoating; traitor; whining
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I have chosen to post all of this lengthy two-page article from a formerly anti-Pollard intelligence official because of its importance and the knowledge that most people with their minds made up would not go to the original article.

Please note two important things:
1) This is not about wanting "special treatment" for Pollard because he is Jewish or spied for Israel. Pollard has already been singled out for "special treatment" by those who imprisoned him. What we would like to know is why Pollard was treated differently from other spies who spied for friendly countries, and
2) the well-known line that Pollard spied only for money (which contradicts the claim by many of the same people that he was motivated by his e-vil Jewish ideology) breaks down when one considers that he did not want to accept any money but did so because he was pressured by his Israeli handlers.

I hope some, if not all, FReepers will read this and consider.

1 posted on 05/23/2003 8:58:26 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Send it to the justice department.
2 posted on 05/23/2003 9:12:38 AM PDT by MEG33
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To: Zionist Conspirator
What we would like to know is why Pollard was treated differently from other spies
who spied for friendly countries


Thanks for raising this issue.
Those who let the spies for other "friendly countries" go should be answering some
questions about why those spies aren't in the cells next to Pollard.

I know I sound harsh about Pollard.
But spies who think they are doing the "right thing" are always in danger of having
the material they swipe end up in the hands of really bad guys.
It's called "the law of unintended consequences".

Hence, it really doesn't matter who or why a person spied.
3 posted on 05/23/2003 9:18:08 AM PDT by VOA
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Interesting article, but it still doesn't change nor excuse the fact that Pollard was a traitor who violated his oath of secrecy. Handing classified information over to Israel, reguardless of his reasoning, was still not his discision to make. I have no sympathy for the man.
4 posted on 05/23/2003 9:23:47 AM PDT by willowpar
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To: Zionist Conspirator
In the long run, though, the issue is not how many boxes Pollard passed, but whether anything he gave Israel did harm to America.

I would strongly disagree with that. The thing is with spying that one never really knows how badly you have been compromised. When you catch the guy, even if he confesses, have you figured out 100% of what he passed on, or only 1%? Who knows? Even this article is full of confidential sources from differing intelligence agenices, all with perhaps their own agenda, making much of this report no more reliable then other reports.

How do we really know what Weinberger told the Judge? We don't. How do we really know that Pollard never took money? Because he says so? Because a source in Isreal says so?

Which all leads to this: In the case of someone betraying a country, is it really up to the home country to have to determine exactly what we betrayed and exactly what kind of harm that the betrayal did? That is costly, and takes a lot of time. Also, it is difficult to assess 100%.

So, since we are talking about betraying your conntry, why not just have this simple rule: Being a spy and a traitor is an extremly serious offense. If you do it, you will go to jail for a long, long time.

That is how I feel. Even if it turns out that Pollard did not give the list of spies (I am surprised that such a list even exists), do we really have to go back and say, "well, he could have given all sorts of stuff, the only one we know about maybe isn't too big of a deal, so let's release the traitor"?

I don't think so.

What happens if we do? Will the next potential spy be more likely to do it if he convinces himself that the stuff he is handing over isn't very serious? What if he doesn't know the true value of the stuff?

If nothing more than for the sake of deterrence: Anyone who spies against his own country should spend life in jail. this includes Pollard.

5 posted on 05/23/2003 9:23:49 AM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Also, this whole bit about Pollard being held in jail to cover up for 9/11 is total lunacy, and discredits the first half of the article.
6 posted on 05/23/2003 9:24:21 AM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
What these people do is just greedy and lazy. There is no reason to do this to this country. It is time to drop Pollard from 36,000 feet without a chute.
7 posted on 05/23/2003 9:28:08 AM PDT by bmwcyle (Semper Gumby - Always flexible)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
I hope he rots in prision. He spied on his country. He got caught and now he is paying the price. Even if this article is true, we cant allow people to steal state secrets and share them with whom they please because the secrets (according to them) are that important and the country they are sharing them with is not currrently an enemy. Spies are the lowest of the low. Any days they spend above ground they ought to consider a privilege.
8 posted on 05/23/2003 9:30:08 AM PDT by Dave S
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To: bmwcyle
Pollard was a coke head: that was what the money was really about.
9 posted on 05/23/2003 9:31:11 AM PDT by Nick Thimmesch
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Pollard’s sentence was clearly out of line, though allowable. The circumstances of his sentencing are suspect, and the government certainly seems to have violated his plea agreement. When the facts eventually come out, his case won’t stand as a shining example of American jurisprudence.

Speaking for myself, though, the reason I don’t complain about his circumstances isn’t ignorance of the facts.

He betrayed his country, violated his induction oath, and I just don’t lose a lot of sleep seeing him spend his life in prison.

IMO the real problem lies in the outrageously lenient sentences normally handed out for the same crime.

10 posted on 05/23/2003 9:31:15 AM PDT by SJackson
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To: Rodney King
Once while discussing Pollard this URL was sent to me. I thought it was a fascinating comment by Weinberger, now many years after the fact. I bookmarked and kept it for just such an occasion. It now fits with the posted article.

http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=6310

"Asked in an interview why he omitted the incident, Weinberger casually replied, “Because it was, in a sense, a very minor matter but made very important.” Asked to elaborate, Weinberger repeated, “As I say, the Pollard matter was comparatively minor. It was made far bigger than its actual importance.”"

11 posted on 05/23/2003 9:32:02 AM PDT by Courier
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To: Dave S
Even if this article is true, we cant allow people to steal state secrets and share them with whom they please because the secrets (according to them) are that important and the country they are sharing them with is not currrently an enemy.

That is the essence of the issue.

12 posted on 05/23/2003 9:34:46 AM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: SJackson
Pollard?s sentence was clearly out of line, though allowable.

I think it is fair to remark that others have gotten off with less time in jail.

The circumstances of his sentencing are suspect, and the government certainly seems to have violated his plea agreement

I have seen this argument a lot. The government did not violate the plea agreement. The judge is not a part of any agreement, and does not have to follow the reccomendation of the prosecutor. I know this first-hand. When I was 18 I was arrested in a fraternity scavenger hunt sort of thing. I had a plea with the prosecutor that I would pay a 500 dollar fine. The judge took one look at the plea agreement and said "This is crazy, I'm not going to let this kid's Dad pay a fine for him. 100 hours of community service. Dismissed."

So judges not agreeing to plea agreements is not totally uncommon.

13 posted on 05/23/2003 9:38:37 AM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Nick Thimmesch
End his habit with sudden impact syndrome.
14 posted on 05/23/2003 9:38:44 AM PDT by bmwcyle (Semper Gumby - Always flexible)
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To: Zionist Conspirator; keri; USMMA_83; neither-nor; archy
In hindsight, I can only conclude that some of our own Washington bureaucrats have been protecting the Al Qaeda leadership and their oil-rich Saudi backers from investigation for more than a decade.

I am not the only one to reach this conclusion. In his autobiography, Oliver North confirmed that every time he wanted to do something about terrorism, Weinberger stopped him because it might upset the Saudis and jeopardize the flow of oil to the U.S.

>>Interesting......

15 posted on 05/23/2003 9:41:15 AM PDT by swarthyguy
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To: Courier
Thanks for the link.

Asked in an interview why he omitted the incident, Weinberger casually replied, ?Because it was, in a sense, a very minor matter but made very important.? Asked to elaborate, Weinberger repeated, ?As I say, the Pollard matter was comparatively minor. It was made far bigger than its actual importance.?

It's hard to tell what he meant by that, and it's too bad that the reporter didnt press him. Further. Weinberger could have meant "A piece of crap spy was arrested and thrown in jail as he should have been, that's not a big deal to me so it's not in my memoirs" as opposed to "It's not important, he didn't do anything that bad".

16 posted on 05/23/2003 9:43:04 AM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
OK, I've read it, and I've considered it.

Jonathan Pollard will die in his US prison cell. He will never leave it, except horizontally.

His supporters can bitch and moan about it all they like, but if anyone seriously thinks he'll be released from US custody clearly doesn't have a grasp of American public feeling on spies and clearly doesn't understand that any US President does understand the American public enough to never allow it to happen. Much as I despise Bill Clinton, even he drew the line...he may have been stringing some people along just to see what he could get out of it, but he wouldn't dare actually do it.
17 posted on 05/23/2003 9:43:09 AM PDT by wimpycat ('Nemo me impune lacessit')
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To: Zionist Conspirator
The key to getting Pollard justice may not be walker -- aldrich -- hanssen but ...

vince foster ---

the biggest mole - mule terrorist team to inhabit the oval office !

We need treason finance reform ... state and justice dept too !
18 posted on 05/23/2003 9:45:22 AM PDT by f.Christian (( apocalypsis, from Gr. apokalypsis, from apokalyptein to uncover, from apo- + kalyptein to cover))
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To: wimpycat
Without discussing the merits of the Pollard case, I want you to know that the author of this piece who is known to me is (a) a sloppy researcher,(b) always makes giant,unsubstantiated, leaps from fact to fantasy,(c) should never be relied on. He is the kind of person who can find a conspiracy in a supermarkert barcode.
19 posted on 05/23/2003 9:48:49 AM PDT by the Real fifi
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Pollard will never be released. Don't waste your time.
20 posted on 05/23/2003 9:51:37 AM PDT by StolarStorm
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To: SJackson
IMO the real problem lies in the outrageously lenient sentences normally handed out for the same crime.

If all spies were indeed treated with the same severity as Pollard, the charge of hypocrisy in this case would not exist.

21 posted on 05/23/2003 9:53:36 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (G-d's laws or NONE!!!)
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To: Rodney King
Israelis are not stupid. It never made sense why they would be loud and public about Pollard unless they honestly believed he (and they by inference) was railroaded. They would certainly know.

If he, and they, were as guilty as purported they would want to sweep the issue to obscurity. But they always bring it up.

With this article, and Weinberger's quote, I believe that I now understand. I believe the posted article.

Pollard broke the law, no question. But he didn't deserve a life sentence.

But never mind about Pollard. If he is a victim, he is one of many, including those murdered on 9/11. The real harm to the US remains. The too cozy relationship with our mortal enemies, the Saudis.
22 posted on 05/23/2003 9:55:10 AM PDT by Courier
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Why do you give a damn? Pollard was a traitor, not a hero.
23 posted on 05/23/2003 9:56:09 AM PDT by StolarStorm
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To: wimpycat
Much as I despise Bill Clinton, even he drew the line...he may have been stringing some people along just to see what he could get out of it, but he wouldn't dare actually do it.
I can count three actual times I had respect for Clinton: when they sent Chelsea to a private school, when he refused to sign the landmines treaty, and when he didn't pardon Pollard and Peltier despite lefty pressure to do so.

According to Bill Casey, it wasn't revealing the names of our spies that was Pollard's egregious offense:

William J. Casey, the late C.I.A. director, who was known for his close ties to the Israeli leadership, stunned one of his station chiefs by suddenly complaining about the Israelis breaking the "ground rules." The issue arose when Casey urged increased monitoring of the Israelis during an otherwise routine visit, I was told by the station chief, who is now retired. "He asked if I knew anything about the Pollard case," the station chief recalled, and he said that Casey had added, "For your information, the Israelis used Pollard to obtain our attack plan against the U.S.S.R. all of it. The coordinates, the firing locations, the sequences. And for guess who? The Soviets." Casey had then explained that the Israelis had traded the Pollard data for Soviet emigres. "How's that for cheating?" he had asked.

Without addressing this charge, this article makes no case whatsoever.

-Eric

24 posted on 05/23/2003 9:56:43 AM PDT by E Rocc
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To: Courier
Israelis are not stupid. It never made sense why they would be loud and public about Pollard unless they honestly believed he (and they by inference) was railroaded. They would certainly know. If he, and they, were as guilty as purported they would want to sweep the issue to obscurity. But they always bring it up. With this article, and Weinberger's quote, I believe that I now understand. I believe the posted article. Pollard broke the law, no question. But he didn't deserve a life sentence.

If everything that Pollard and his supporters claim is true, then I would be ok if he was let out after 25 years instead of life. The issue that he has spent longer in jail then others for comparable crimes is a valid issue, which should be remedied by sentencing others who commit comparable crimes to jail for 25 years. Even if everything Pollard supporters claim is true, we simply can't have a situation where everyone makes up their own mind as to what information is serious, and what isn't.

But never mind about Pollard. If he is a victim, he is one of many, including those murdered on 9/11. The real harm to the US remains. The too cozy relationship with our mortal enemies, the Saudis.

Well, I don't feel too bad for Pollard, but I would agree that we had too cozy of a relationship with them for far too long - and that they are our mortal enemies.

25 posted on 05/23/2003 10:00:09 AM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Courier
If he is a victim, he is one of many, including those murdered on 9/11.

I sincerely hope you aren't equating Jonathan Pollard with the 9/11 victims.

Israelis are not stupid.

Americans aren't stupid, either. He's going to die in that prison, I hope you're smart enough to realize it.

26 posted on 05/23/2003 10:00:50 AM PDT by wimpycat ('Nemo me impune lacessit')
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To: StolarStorm
Pollard will never be released. Don't waste your time.

Asking questions is never a waste of time, nor is posting articles or one's own beliefs/opinions on Free Republic.

27 posted on 05/23/2003 10:01:00 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (G-d's laws or NONE!!!)
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To: E Rocc
I can count three actual times I had respect for Clinton: when they sent Chelsea to a private school, when he refused to sign the landmines treaty, and when he didn't pardon Pollard and Peltier despite lefty pressure to do so.

1. They are hypocrites. Carter was the respectful one who made his kids go to the crappy schools that he suppoted.

2. I suppose I have respect for him on the landmine treaty.

3. In all liklihood, his position had nothing to do with principle, and everything to do with either not getting enough of a bribe from Marc Rich, or fear of pissing off the intelligence community who might respond by exposing his crimes.

28 posted on 05/23/2003 10:03:14 AM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: E Rocc
Good find. This aritlce has lost all credibility. It shoots down Seymour Hersh about the radio frequencies, as if they were the last thread holding Pollard in jail, when the same article by Hersh alleges that Pollard stole our entire attack plan. Do you think the author of our current article missed that line, or just chose to ignore it hoping that most people wouldn't notice?
29 posted on 05/23/2003 10:05:47 AM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
The endless 'Free Pollard' propoganda isn't going to influence Americans or our government, especially when the propoganda is a form of bigotry. Pollard is being defended by Israelies because he is Jewish. It really is that simple. If he was a black christian, these folks would not be trying to get him released.
30 posted on 05/23/2003 10:08:13 AM PDT by StolarStorm
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To: E Rocc
You have trouble understanding what you read?

It is the theme of the posted article that what Casey, and others at the time, believed got to the Soviets by way of Pollard, actually was delivered by spies active AND UNKNOWN at that time, Ames and Hansen and who knows who else.
31 posted on 05/23/2003 10:10:48 AM PDT by Courier
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To: StolarStorm
The endless 'Free Pollard' propoganda isn't going to influence Americans or our government, especially when the propoganda is a form of bigotry. Pollard is being defended by Israelies because he is Jewish. It really is that simple. If he was a black christian, these folks would not be trying to get him released.

You are missing the point. If Pollard were a "black chr*stian" who had spied for a friendly African country, he may have already walked. The point is that Pollard was singled out for severity not shown to other spies who did the same thing.

If you persist in ignoring this (which other anti-Pollard posters admit and lament) then you are obviously not a sincere person of goodwill but a believer in the inherently sinister nature of Jewishness.

I have no quarrel with anti-Pollard people who also demand consistency in the treatment of all spies, nor with people who argue the justification of this special treatment because they feel his crime was actually of greater enormity than that of the other spies. But outside these two positions, to merely condemn the questioning of Pollard's sentence based on his (or the questioners') Jewishness is sheer bigotry.

And no, I'm not Jewish. I'm a redneck.

32 posted on 05/23/2003 10:15:42 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (G-d's laws or NONE!!!)
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To: StolarStorm
I think it's a fair guess that a spy who had nothing to do with Israel would not be an issue for Israel.

I also think it's fair to assume that to you the only issue that matters concerns that he is Jewish and the Israeli involvement.

Truth, justice, be damned.

33 posted on 05/23/2003 10:17:28 AM PDT by Courier
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To: StolarStorm
Exactly. He's a spy. Plain and simple. If it were up to me, I'd hang him. I don't care where he's from.
34 posted on 05/23/2003 10:17:33 AM PDT by NYC Republican
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To: Zionist Conspirator
None of this matters. He swore an oath to the United States and violated it. Even if he gave the Israelis something they already knew, he should get death if he doesn't cooperate, life in prison if he does. A spy is a spy.
35 posted on 05/23/2003 10:20:04 AM PDT by JustRight
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To: E Rocc; Courier
You have trouble understanding what you read?

It is the theme of the posted article that what Casey, and others at the time, believed got to the Soviets by way of Pollard, actually was delivered by spies active AND UNKNOWN at that time, Ames and Hansen and who knows who else.

Excellent point. Do you have a response, Mr. Rocc?

36 posted on 05/23/2003 10:21:05 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (G-d's laws or NONE!!!)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
This is a complex matter, but the fact that "Pollard hadn’t meant for this to happen" provides little in the way of mitigating his treasonous acts against the US -- especially in light of the terrible fact that "the result of the "false flag" mistake was mass murder."

What nobody seems to even claim is that he did not in fact sell out our intelligence secrets to a foreign country. And the facts that he is Jewish or that Israel is an ally largely are immaterial.

If Pollard had robbed a bank and he unintentionally killed one of his hostages, he still would be responsible for that death, the bank robbery, and for the use of a firearm in the commission of his crime.

Actions do have consequences, and the death of our humint assets within the Soviet Union and the resultant long-term intelligence blackout warrants far more than he has received, IMO.

Any pro-Pollard protestations beyond these realities are specious at best......

37 posted on 05/23/2003 10:22:11 AM PDT by tracer (/b>)
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To: Zionist Conspirator; Courier
It is the theme of the posted article that what Casey, and others at the time, believed got to the Soviets by way of Pollard, actually was delivered by spies active AND UNKNOWN at that time, Ames and Hansen and who knows who else.

Yeah, that's the theme. But get this, your article says the following:

In order to justify Pollard?s life sentence, they had to show that he did do some potentially catastrophic damage to America. What they came up with was a bit of a stretch. Pollard had given Israel a set of radio frequency guidebooks, a worldwide listing of short-wave radio bands. It takes a lot of time and money to compile one of these guides, but essentially they are just publicly available information, openly deduced by listening to who is talking to whom on which radio bands.

..Clearly implying that when the "false-flag" issue blew up, the intelligence people tried to nail him with the radio frequencies as their last grasp. The author goes on to point out that Hersh fell for this in his article.

The author totally skips over that in that same Hersh article is the allegation that Pollard sold our entire attack plan. Clearly, that calls into question the author's statements that the fallback position was a made up issue of radio frequencies. And clearly, one would have to wonder why the author would address the issue of the radio frequencies, and not the issue of the attack plan.

38 posted on 05/23/2003 10:28:00 AM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Courier
It is the theme of the posted article that what Casey, and others at the time, believed got to the Soviets by way of Pollard, actually was delivered by spies active AND UNKNOWN at that time, Ames and Hansen and who knows who else.
It only says this about the list of spies. Nowhere does it talk about the attack plan...an item of only one possible use to the Israelis (as Pollard had to know).

-Eric

39 posted on 05/23/2003 10:28:11 AM PDT by E Rocc
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To: tracer
This is a complex matter, but the fact that "Pollard hadn’t meant for this to happen" provides little in the way of mitigating his treasonous acts against the US -- especially in light of the terrible fact that "the result of the "false flag" mistake was mass murder."

What you are missing is that the point of the whole article is that the assertion "the result of the 'false flag' mistake was mass murder" is false. The mass murder had nothing to do with Pollard or any "false flag" in Israel but with Aldrich Ames.

If Pollard is not guilty of that particular result, then he is not guilty of it. His crime was spying for a friendly country and he should have received the same punishment as other spies for friendly countries.

So if Pollard's sentence was based on damage perpetrated by someone else, where is the justice?

40 posted on 05/23/2003 10:29:09 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (G-d's laws or NONE!!!)
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To: the Real fifi
Pollard is sitting quite pretty in a Federal Pen for sex offenders, taking up valuable space that would otherwise be
available for those in that type of psychiatric "distress".
(Thank you Hitlery for preventing the transfer to standard facilities...NOT!)

Pollard was a spy. He should have been hung.

...find a conspiracy in a supermarkert barcode.

Hmmm, I thought it was the mark of the beast (666) secreted in barcodes.

41 posted on 05/23/2003 10:33:19 AM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: Courier
I wonder about people who are so concerned about the rights of a traitor.
42 posted on 05/23/2003 10:40:24 AM PDT by StolarStorm
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Fact 1 - Pollard was briefed into security programs and not only was told, but signed documents indicating that he'd read and understood, the punishments for betraying information he'd been given in confidence to anybody not briefed into that program. Soviet, Israeli, American, anyone.

Fact 2 - He betrayed information in his keeping. This is not conjecture, it is proven.

Fact 3 - He was sentenced in accordance with Fact 1.

I am sorry that his actions and their outcome has given his friends and supporters pain, but the bottom line is that there is absolutely nothing disproportionate or inappropriate in what is happening to him. If others have been sentenced to less that is irrelevant. If others have given information to different people that is irrelevant.

The lack of "blue stripe" clearance was the final proof that Pollard could not possibly have betrayed our Russian agents.

It is nothing of the sort. That is like saying that lack of a driver's license is "final proof" that somebody accused of speeding couldn't have done it.

43 posted on 05/23/2003 10:44:45 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Zionist Conspirator
You're wasting your time.

Most everyone brings their prejudices into this.

Those who hate Jews and Israel will see a matador's red cape and nothing else. No need for reason and justice.

Many Jews bring their fears. Don't want to look disloyal so many are more then happy to leave him to his fate.

Loftus is a Catholic.

Like others who are neither Jew nor anti-Semite, just looking for answers.

I care because justice is important and because finding justice here may shine a light on real dangers as the article implies.

44 posted on 05/23/2003 10:52:30 AM PDT by Courier
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To: All
Bump for a later read.
45 posted on 05/23/2003 10:53:27 AM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet (If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends?)
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To: willowpar
Handing classified information over to Israel, reguardless of his reasoning, was still not his discision to make.

It was however President Reagan's decision to make, regardless of wether Pollard's supperiors were obeying their orders. Or do CIA agents get to disregard Presidential orders?

Pollard knew that U.S. intelligence had been ordered to share this information with Israel—under an executive order signed by President Reagan—but had not done so.

46 posted on 05/23/2003 10:55:20 AM PDT by El Gato
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To: Courier
Yes, justice is important. Traitors should be hanged. In Pollard's case, as with Hansen, we just have to live with a life sentence.

Some of us care about our country and our biases in favor of Israel do not cloud our judgement when it comes to traitors.

47 posted on 05/23/2003 10:58:08 AM PDT by StolarStorm
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To: StolarStorm
I wonder about people who are so concerned about the rights of a traitor.

That puzzles me as well. I'd be inclined to keep my eye on those people or groups who are sticking up for this guy. What exactly is their motivation to keep raising the issue that he should be released? I can certainly understand why the Israelis feel that way, but when an American does it I have to wonder why all the sympathy for this guy. He should just be thankfull that he wasn't given the death penalty.

48 posted on 05/23/2003 10:59:52 AM PDT by willowpar
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To: Zionist Conspirator
I hate to be a pessimist, but the hatred for Jonathan Pollard is so great, it would be nothing but a miracle if he was released from prison now.

The only thing I can concieve of that might free him is some sort of deal with Israel that is so important that he becomes a bargaining chip in it. This has been tried by other Israeli leaders but has up to this point failed.

49 posted on 05/23/2003 11:00:36 AM PDT by Nachum
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To: El Gato
Pollard knew that U.S. intelligence had been ordered to share this information with Israel?under an executive order signed by President Reagan?but had not done so.

You are of course taking Pollard's word for it that those were the only documents that he handed over. A traitor is not someone who I would generally trust.

50 posted on 05/23/2003 11:07:34 AM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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