Lesbian Catholic religious education coordinator denied award from the Archdiocese of St. Paul

The Star Tribune ^ | 02.22.03

[Man_of_Reason]

It's not sophistry, it's a direct quote of the Catholic Catechism.
You are right about the hypocrisy. I cannot understand how the parish let this woman in, and now condemn her when they knew all along what she was. Why aren't these members of the church condemning themselves equally as much, for they let her in. They could be at least charitable, and acknowledge the good the woman has done, the goodness in her heart, and then ask her to leave until she changes her ways.
The whole situation is a terrible mess, I hope people find the guidance for the most charitable solution.

[ninenot]

unfit to remain a member of the parish or the Catholic church

Here's where you and the Catholic Church differ. She is perfectly welcome as a member of the Church. HOWEVER, she is expected to repent AND to sin no more.

[Aliska]

I was hard pressed to find adequate roll models for my kids in our local Catholic churches.

he he. Here's another one for you. You can rake me over the coals on this one, too. Maybe we need more roll models. We sure don't have many good role models.

I got bitched out on another thread about collages versus colleges, Motherbear.

I make these kinds of errors often myself so I'm not picking on the posters.

[AppyPappy]

I think the district (whatever) was unaware of her lifestyle. When they found out that she was a practicing and admitted adulterer, they withdrew the award.

[dansangel]

With some people it is a form of dyslexia and they soon grow weary of having others point out their mistakes time and again.

It doesn't hurt to know who you might be lampooning.

Signed,
The *You-Know-What*

:-)

[Campion]

I cannot understand how the parish let this woman in, and now condemn her when they knew all along what she was.

The parish in question is notorious, and notoriously disobedient. The real hypocrisy consists in St. Joan of Arc calling itself "Catholic," when it has no intention of teaching major areas of Catholic doctrine, and in fact glories in undermining it. The fact that they hired someone, allegedly to teach Catholic religious education, who was publicly engaged in a "lifestyle" completely out of accord with (authentic) Catholic teaching, is their fault. The fact that the bishop has, up to now, let them get away with it is his fault.

[Man_of_Reason]

The news releases indicate she was a widely known lesbian. It appears that many in the parish knew and decided to do nothing. Those who knew and did nothing let evil continue. I pray that they realize, in their conscience, the wrong they have done and make amends. Has the district removed her from her teaching position or have they just taken the award away? If they have only taken the award away, then they are supporting her lifestyle.
It's my opinion that the most charitible resolution to this complex issue is to acknowledge the good the woman has done, but politiely and firmly ask her to leave until she changes her ways. I would also ask the parish members to ask themselves why they let this happen in the first place.

[Man_of_Reason]

Thank you.

[Aliska]

I'll try to be more careful in the future as I agree it isn't nice to hurt peoples' feelings. Maybe I could have made my inane little comment and been a little more tactful at the same time.

[jimt]

Here's where you and the Catholic Church differ. She is perfectly welcome as a member of the Church. HOWEVER, she is expected to repent AND to sin no more.

Your HOWEVER is exactly my point. My limited understanding of the Catholic church is that people who repeatedly commit mortal sins and are unrepentant are excommunicated, not awarded.

Have I got that wrong?

[dansangel]

*Thank-you* - you have mail.

[JNB]

The same would have applied if she was in a non married hetrosexual relationship as well. Man_of_reason, the church is not a democracy, and what this woman was doing was openly dis respecting a church teaching on morals.

[Jim Noble]

Hate is Not a Catholic Value

Don't buy this rhetoric.

No one in this story hates anybody, unless the teacher hates men and hates the Church. We do not have enough information to know whether this is true.

[JNB]

Despite St Joan of Arcs parish repuation, the Archbishop probably did not know the award he was giving out was going to a open lesbian. If he had known, the award would have never been awarded to her. Abp Flynn acted properly in this situation. The people of St Joan of Arc parish are the ones who let her teach, and this parish cares very little for many church teachings.

[ninenot]

Well, kinda.

People who are in the state of mortal sin may NOT receive the sacraments (except confession.) Excommunication is applied only in a few specific instances, such as participation in abortion, open heresy, etc.

So technically the woman is not excommunicated.

[SuziQ]

A trip to the local retreat house was more of the same with a little new age, Jungian pscyhobabble thrown in.

LOL!! I heard that about the retreats! I have avoided them like the plague since we've been here in MA. The only one I've attended was a Day of Prayer for Women given by the Legionairies for Christ. What a prayer-filled day that was!! And I didn't have to listen to a lot of fluff masquerading as Church teachings.

[jimt]

So technically the woman is not excommunicated.

Please note I didn't say she was.

But isn't excommunication a proper action for the church to take if:

1) a person repeatedly commits a mortal sin;
2) is unrepentant;
3) makes his/her sin known to others;
4) advocates that the sin is not a sin at all, both within and without the church, regardless of the church's teachings ?

I understand repentance and redemption, but in an egregious case of a non-repentant continuing mortal sinner, those things don't seem to apply until the behavior stops and the sin is repented of.

[ninenot]

Actually, the bill of particulars you list makes a very good case for a formal act of excommunication, I think...but it's past my paygrade to make such decisions. In the case at hand, Bp. Flynn would lay out the case, probably close to the way you did, and then formally declare the perp/teacher to be excommunicated. The only exception would be that Flynn could not say that the perp 'repeatedly committed the mortal sin,' because I presume Flynn does not have a camcorder in her bedroom. Assumption, in all these cases, is a fatal flaw. OTOH, if she happened to provide oral or written testimony to her actual activity with her 'partner,' that would suffice.

FYI, excommunication is meant to serve as a "pretty strong" warning that one is in proximate danger of losing one's soul (should you die unrepentant, you will be a permanent guest of Lucifer.) It is not really meant to permanently "lose" a member of the Church--it's meant to make them think real hard about their position.

[Tamar1973]

For the same reason they could take away the award if she were in the Klan.

It would be one thing if she had hidden her inclination very well, but she flaunted it. They knew BEFORE they offered her the award that she was a lesbian so to retract the reward AFTER publically stating they were going to give it to her seems unfair to me. They are setting her up for additional public ridicule and that is wrong.

[Kuksool]

The Roman Catholic Church needs to implement a healthy of church discipline.