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This is what happens when governments try to ban guns
Telegraph UK ^ | 05/01/2003) | Mark Steyn

Posted on 05/28/2003 7:29:57 PM PDT by Mensch

You would think if "gun control" was going to work anywhere it would be on a small island. Particularly a small island at whose ports of entry the zealots of HM Customs like nothing better than performing intimate cavity searches on the off-chance you've got an extra bottle of duty-free Beaujolais tucked away up there. Surely, if you also had a Walther PPK parked out of sight, these exhaustive inspectors would be the first to notice.

But apparently not. Since the Government's "total ban" five years ago, there are more and more guns being used by more and more criminals in more and more crimes. Now, in the wake of Birmingham's New Year bloodbath, there are calls for the total ban to be made even more total: if the gangs refuse to obey the existing laws, we'll just pass more laws for them not to obey. According to a UN survey from last month, England and Wales now have the highest crime rate of the world's 20 leading nations. One can query the methodology of the survey while still recognising the peculiar genius by which British crime policy has wound up with every indicator going haywire - draconian gun control plus vastly increased gun violence plus stratospheric property crime.

What happened at that party in Aston? I don't mean "what happened?" in the sense of the piercing analysis of Chief Superintendent Dave Shaw, who concluded: "There has clearly been some sort of dispute which has resulted in people coming to the premises with guns, discharging their weapons and causing this incident." You can't put anything over on these coppers, can you? But my question is directed at the broader meaning of the event. Chief Supt Shaw went on: "We have never had to deal with anything like this. In terms of the nature of the incident, it's almost unprecedented in Birmingham." He didn't quite say Birmingham is one of those bucolic tightly-knit communities where everyone in the village knows everyone else and no one locks their doors, but you get the drift: this is some sort of bizarre aberration.

I think not. When those young men decided to open fire in Birchfield Road, they were making an entirely rational decision. One reason why Chief Supt Shaw has "never had to deal with anything like this" is because Aston was long ago ceded to the gangs. And, if you can deal drugs with impunity and burgle with impunity and assault with impunity and use guns with impunity, who's to say you can't murder with impunity? The West Midlands Police have offered a reward of £1,000 for information leading to the arrest of those involved. Think about that: would you name a known gang member for a thousand quid? Once the funerals have been held and the media's moved on, the constabulary will go back to forgetting about Aston. But you'll still have to live there.

When Dunblane occurred, all of us - even, if they're honest with themselves, the shrieking hysterics baying for pointless legislation - understood it was a freak event: a nut went nuts. It happens, and, when it does, the event has no broader implications. But what happened in Birchfield Road is of wider relevance: it's a glimpse of the day after tomorrow - not just in Aston, but in Edgbaston and Solihull and Leamington Spa.

After Dunblane, the police and politicians lapsed into their default position: it's your fault. We couldn't do anything about him, so we'll do something about you. You had your mobile nicked? You must be mad taking it out. Why not just keep it inside nice and safe on the telephone table? Had your car radio pinched? You shouldn't have left it in the car. House burgled? You should have had laser alarms and window bars installed. You did have laser alarms and window bars but they waited till you were home, kicked the door in and beat you up? You should have an armour-plated door and digital retinal-scan technology. It's your fault, always. The monumentally useless British police, with greater manpower per capita on higher rates of pay and with far more lavish resources than the Americans, haven't had an original idea in decades, so they cling ever more fiercely to their core ideology: the best way to deal with criminals is to impose ever greater restrictions and inconveniences on the law-abiding.

The gangs on Birmingham's streets instinctively understand this. They know, even if the Government doesn't, that the Blairite "total" ban, which sounds so butch and macho when you do your soundbite on the telly, is a cop-out: it makes the general population the target, not the criminals. And once that happens it's always easier to hassle the cranky farmer with the unlicensed shotgun than the Yardies with the Uzis. When you disarm the citizenry, when you prosecute them for being so foolish as to believe they have a right to self-defence, when you issue warnings that they should "walk on by" if they happen to see a burglary or rape in progress, the main beneficiaries will obviously be the criminals. Aston is the logical reductio of British policing: rival bad guys with state-of-the-art hardware, a cowed populace, and a remote constabulary tucked up in bed with the answering machine on.

I see I haven't yet mentioned the touchy social factor which even squeamish British Lefties have been forced to confront: Aston is yet more "black-on-black" violence. The reason I haven't mentioned it is because there hardly seems any point. What's new? Canada also had a Dunblane-like massacre, followed by Dunblane-like legislation, and, like Birmingham, boring, bland Toronto has lately been riven by gun violence from - wait for it - Jamaican gangs. But in neither Britain nor Canada is it politically feasible to suggest that perhaps Jamaicans should be subjected to special immigration scrutiny. As it happens, that Canadian massacre, of Montreal female students 12 years ago, was committed by the son of an Algerian Muslim wife-beater, but, although we all claim to be interested in the "root causes" of crime, they tend to involve awkward cultural judgments. It's easier, like Mr Blair, just to go "total": blame everyone, ban everything.

This basic approach of addressing any cultural factors apart from the ones that correlate was pioneered by American progressives. The corpulent provocateur Michael Moore, in his film Bowling for Columbine, currently delighting British audiences, spends an entire feature-length documentary investigating the "culture" of American gun violence without mentioning that blacks, who make up 13 per cent of the population, account for over half the murders (and murder victims, too). Once you factor them out, Americans kill at about the same rate as nancy-boy Canadians.

But, as I said, it's hardly worth mentioning in relation to Britain. In my part of New Hampshire, we're all armed to the hilt and any gangster who fancied holding up a gas station would be quickly ventilated by guys whose pick-ups are better equipped than most EU armies. The right of individual self-defence deters crime, constrains it, prevents it from spreading out of the drug-infested failed jurisdictions. In post-Dunblane, post-Tony Martin Britain, that constraint doesn't exist: that's why the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea now has a higher crime rate than Harlem.

Meanwhile, America's traditionally high and England and Wales's traditionally low murder rates are remorselessly converging. In 1981, the US rate was nine times higher than the English. By 1995, it was six times. Last year, it was down to 3.5. Given that US statistics, unlike the British ones, include manslaughter and other lesser charges, the real rate is much closer. New York has just recorded the lowest murder rate since the 19th century. I'll bet that in the next two years London's murder rate overtakes it.


TOPICS: Canada; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: ban; bang; banglist; britain; guncontrol; steyn

1 posted on 05/28/2003 7:29:57 PM PDT by Mensch
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To: *bang_list
±
2 posted on 05/28/2003 7:33:48 PM PDT by Sir Gawain
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To: Sir Gawain
Of course all the criminals are the only ones to have guns. We can't have the law-abiding citizens being allowed to protect themselves against all the criminals with guns by having their own guns now, can we?
3 posted on 05/28/2003 7:45:23 PM PDT by Roxymoron
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To: Mensch
Good article. Thanks for posting.
4 posted on 05/28/2003 8:03:27 PM PDT by Mulder (Live Free or die)
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To: Mensch
This is actually a fairly old one from Steyn but it is one of my favorites.
5 posted on 05/28/2003 8:24:32 PM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: Mensch
I just sent this to a British in-law who thinks Americans are crazy to have a constitutional right to bear arms. He thinks all disputes should be settled with your fists. Maybe so, but it's not working in England very well any more. And the pubs aren't what they used to be, either, with hardly a free house left anywhere and the brewery chains running the show.
6 posted on 05/28/2003 8:34:41 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Mensch
It's easier... just to go "total": blame everyone, ban everything.

Well said, old chap.

7 posted on 05/28/2003 8:38:29 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Drug prohibition laws help support terrorism.)
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To: Mensch
Great post!
8 posted on 05/28/2003 8:49:11 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
To break into my house would require getting past an alarm system and my dog. By the above actions one has demonstrated ill and probably violent intent. In such a case I would use every effort and means I possess to kill the intruder.
9 posted on 05/28/2003 8:56:27 PM PDT by cpdiii (RPH & oil field trash and proud of it)
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To: Mensch
I thought Birmingham has always been rough.

I know Strathclyde, Scotland is really bad. 380,000 people, 82 murders(2000?2001?) That was worse than all Michigan cities outside of Flint and Detroit.

10 posted on 05/28/2003 9:00:23 PM PDT by Dan from Michigan ("It's the same ole story, same ole song and dance, my friend")
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To: cpdiii
In such a case I would use every effort and means I possess to kill the intruder.

If you do that in England you go to jail and the heirs of the perp get to sue you.

11 posted on 05/28/2003 9:12:35 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Drug prohibition laws help support terrorism.)
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To: Sir Gawain; *bang_list
WARNING:

This article appeared earlier...perhaps as early as last year.

Something fishy going on...you've been warned.
12 posted on 05/28/2003 9:13:43 PM PDT by Maelstrom (To prevent misinterpretation or abuse of the Constitution:The Bill of Rights limits government power)
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To: Prodigal Son
Wow. I'm a big Steyn fan and read this whole article w/o realizing it was him. It's grim compared to his normal work.
13 posted on 05/28/2003 9:36:36 PM PDT by gcruse (Vice is nice, but virtue can hurt you. --Bill Bennett)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
TEXAS sir, TEXAS!!
14 posted on 05/28/2003 9:57:28 PM PDT by cpdiii (RPH & oil field trash and proud of it)
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To: Mensch
BTTT
15 posted on 05/28/2003 11:39:36 PM PDT by Djarum
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To: Mensch
nancy-boy Canadians.

Man, is this guy perceptive or what?
16 posted on 05/28/2003 11:56:06 PM PDT by Tailback
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To: Mensch; All
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/711949/posts
Do Guns Save Lives?

-Empty-Barrel Gun Policies-A legacy of nonsense from Clinton, Blair, and the Left--

-A Problem With Guns (Long... but SOOOO good)--

Shooting More Holes in Gun Control

Gun Control Down Under

HCI Aussie Style (read it and weep-or laugh)

The Great Australian Gun Law CON!

British Gun Crime Soars

Gun Crimes Surge in London

More Guns on Street - Cops Fearing Increased Bloodshed (more Canadian gun control "success")

Through the Looking Glass and Back Again - From Anti-gunner to Firearms Instructor in Four Months


Swiss Gun Laws- and some rebuttal to HCI "spin"-- Thread II

Statistical Facts Gun-haters Run From

17 posted on 05/29/2003 1:46:41 AM PDT by backhoe (What part about "uninfringed" is so hard to understand? The 2nd guards the 1st...)
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To: Mensch
I LOVE his writing!
This should be chiseled in granite somewhere:

"The monumentally useless British police, with greater manpower per capita on higher rates of pay and with far more lavish resources than the Americans, haven't had an original idea in decades, so they cling ever more fiercely to their core ideology: the best way to deal with criminals is to impose ever greater restrictions and inconveniences on the law-abiding."

18 posted on 05/29/2003 6:10:37 AM PDT by Redbob
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To: Maelstrom
Ths is an old Steyn.... think it was written shortly after the New Year's shootings referenced in the article.

However, the points he makes are still very valid.
19 posted on 05/29/2003 6:14:31 AM PDT by Rummyfan
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To: AAABEST; wku man; SLB; Travis McGee; Squantos; harpseal; Shooter 2.5; The Old Hoosier; xrp; ...
Good read. And good insights into the political opportunism and social myopia of the "authorities", who ceaselessly utilize the actions of criminals to further their oppression of the law-abiding. Nothing good can be said about such a government, foreign or domestic.


20 posted on 05/29/2003 7:10:41 AM PDT by Joe Brower (http://www.joebrower.com/)
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To: Joe Brower
Of course, we won't let them ban guns. Well, they might but they would soon change their minds.
21 posted on 05/29/2003 7:21:43 AM PDT by PatrioticAmerican (Forget the spy planes - AC-130!)
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To: Joe Brower
Yep, this is one of Steyn's best.
22 posted on 05/29/2003 7:24:11 AM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Mensch
But, as I said, it's hardly worth mentioning in relation to Britain. In my part of New Hampshire, we're all armed to the hilt and any gangster who fancied holding up a gas station would be quickly ventilated by guys whose pick-ups are better equipped than most EU armies. ROTFLOL.
23 posted on 05/29/2003 7:33:08 AM PDT by Frumious Bandersnatch
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To: Joe Brower
wow. thanks. I hadn't seen this one before. great piece.
24 posted on 05/29/2003 7:33:28 AM PDT by glock rocks (shoot fast. shoot straight. shoot safe. practice. carry. molon labe)
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To: Joe Brower
Excellent read.
25 posted on 05/29/2003 7:50:59 AM PDT by AAABEST
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To: Mensch
As usual, Steyn hits the bullseye!
26 posted on 05/29/2003 8:41:46 AM PDT by Gritty
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To: Cicero
He thinks all disputes should be settled with your fists

Guess he doesn't think much of women's right to self-defense then.

27 posted on 05/29/2003 9:17:37 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (We are crushing our enemies, seeing him driven before us and hearing the lamentations of the liberal)
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To: Cicero; Squantos; TEXASPROUD; Eaker; humblegunner; Travis McGee; cpdiii
"He thinks all disputes should be settled with your fists."

In relation to guns, fists are like knives - you don't take your fists to a gunfight, either.
In my bar hopping days fists were the common way to settle disputes, and, usually, we were buying each other drinks the next day.
Times and men have changed.
Most men today would be scared sh*tless to get into a fistfight. Broken noses and busted lips hurt.
It's much easier to grab the Glock and blow them away... as long as that other person doesn't have access to one, also.
It's amazing how looking down the barrel of a handgun will cause the anger to dissipate!

The only country in which I've lived that had strict gun control that worked was Singapore.
This is a small island where the culture allows and encourages citizen control, and, as we all know, that's what the anti-gun crowd is all about.

28 posted on 05/29/2003 9:30:12 AM PDT by TexasCowboy (COB1)
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To: Joe Brower
Thanks for the ping. I didn't realize that it was Steyn either. Great article, but without a lot of the humor that I have come to expect from him.
29 posted on 05/29/2003 10:19:02 AM PDT by Badray (Molon Labe!)
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To: Badray
Yeah, I didn't notice it was Steyn either at first. Maybe he's a bit too fed up with the insanity for any of his usual humor to shine through...
30 posted on 05/29/2003 10:21:49 AM PDT by Joe Brower ("The world is weary of statesmen whom democracy has degraded into politicians." -- Ben Desraeli)
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To: Joe Brower
BTTT
31 posted on 05/29/2003 10:32:46 AM PDT by hattend
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To: Joe Brower
Good point. It's hard to be funny about something so serious.

(Or is that vey series and hugh?)
32 posted on 05/29/2003 10:41:24 AM PDT by Badray (Molon Labe!)
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To: cpdiii; Mensch; Joe Brower; Travis McGee
In my part of New Hampshire, we're all armed to the hilt and any gangster who fancied holding up a gas station would be quickly ventilated by guys whose pick-ups are better equipped than most EU armies.

The same could be said for most of Texas, in spades.

The right of individual self-defence deters crime, constrains it, prevents it from spreading out of the drug-infested failed jurisdictions.

Absolutely true. How else do you explain the fact that at the height the mob violence in the 1920's and early 30's, when full-auto guns could be had by nearly anyone (without background checks, waiting periods, permission slips from your Chief Nanny at the PD or $200 tax stamps, I might add), the only violence involving these guns was between criminals. They just didn't think it worth it to F@#* with the average citizen, when the average person could've had anything in the house, car or on their person. This is the same reason that states with "shall issue" licensing show a faster drop in crime than non- or may-issue states.

33 posted on 05/29/2003 12:26:54 PM PDT by Ancesthntr
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To: Mensch
blacks, who make up 13 per cent of the population, account for over half the murders (and murder victims, too). Once you factor them out, Americans kill at about the same rate as nancy-boy Canadians.

I didn't think we were allowed to mention this fact.

34 posted on 05/29/2003 7:40:48 PM PDT by Drew68
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To: Joe Brower
Thanks for the ping..

You're right.. Good read.

35 posted on 05/30/2003 2:42:49 AM PDT by Drammach
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To: Tailback
nancy-boy Canadians.

I had this all set to quote and read your post...damn near fell off my chair laughing at this one...

36 posted on 05/30/2003 3:04:12 AM PDT by Abundy
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To: Mensch
"In my part of New Hampshire, we're all armed to the hilt and any gangster who fancied holding up a gas station would be quickly ventilated by guys whose pick-ups are better equipped than most EU armies."

I liked that part.
37 posted on 05/30/2003 7:34:25 AM PDT by DeuceTraveler
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
In such a case I would use every effort and means I possess to kill the intruder.

If you do that in England you go to jail and the heirs of the perp get to sue you.

Not at all. Though that's happened in a few instances that are indeed regretable, they served as public notice to those involved in such matters to do a better job of disposing of the bodies and have no thoughts at all that the public police forces are any sort of service to the public. Accordingly, no more reports to them, no more *assistance with inquiries,* and if you see a copper being killed, it's nothing to do with you- they're no longer your friends.

-archy-/-

38 posted on 05/30/2003 10:12:42 AM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: Joe Brower; Badray
Maybe he's a bit too fed up with the insanity for any of his usual humor to shine through...

Don't know about that...

"I don't mean "what happened?" in the sense of the piercing analysis of Chief Superintendent Dave Shaw, who concluded: "There has clearly been some sort of dispute which has resulted in people coming to the premises with guns, discharging their weapons and causing this incident." You can't put anything over on these coppers, can you?"

His humor is always biting sarcasm.

39 posted on 05/30/2003 10:22:52 AM PDT by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: facedown
You're right. I missed that (and probably other) comments.
40 posted on 05/30/2003 11:08:24 AM PDT by Badray (Molon Labe!)
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To: Badray
Bang!
41 posted on 05/30/2003 11:34:40 AM PDT by heckler (wiskey for my men, beer for my horses)
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To: Badray
Bang!
42 posted on 05/30/2003 11:34:56 AM PDT by heckler (wiskey for my men, beer for my horses)
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To: archy
similar thing happened in Greece with the recent influx of Albanian thugs. Its just easier to dump the body of homoe invaders along the road.
43 posted on 05/30/2003 12:11:19 PM PDT by longtermmemmory
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To: Abundy
nancy-boy Canadians.

Out of the whole article, that's the part that made me laugh the most. Of course, there's a whole bunch of Canadians in the NHL that would probably disagree with that. I wonder how they vote?
44 posted on 05/30/2003 7:06:51 PM PDT by Tailback
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To: cpdiii
"...I would use every effort and means I possess to kill the intruder."

I agree, but be warned like I was by a policeman friend; say you were stopping the threat, not killing him/her. It will make a big difference in the police report and your future.

I figure my practiced Mozanbique drills will stop the threat. If the creep survives, we should be amazed.
45 posted on 05/30/2003 9:05:18 PM PDT by Blue Collar Christian (If he's a cowboy, then I like cowboys. <><)
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To: Cicero
"He thinks all disputes should be settled with your fists."

Just like an Englishman to bring his fists to a gunfight.
46 posted on 05/30/2003 9:12:31 PM PDT by Blue Collar Christian (If he's a cowboy, then I like cowboys. <><)
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To: longtermmemmory; archy
True story from many years ago in a neighboring jurisdiction...

call into Sheriff's Dept. advising to send deputies to caller's house as he had just shot and killed a burglar. Call-taker, who happened to be a deputy known to the caller, asked X, is this guy in your house?

To which X replied, "how long before the deputies get here?"

47 posted on 05/31/2003 2:45:20 AM PDT by Abundy
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To: Abundy
True story from many years ago in a neighboring jurisdiction...
call into Sheriff's Dept. advising to send deputies to
caller's house as he had just shot and killed a
burglar. Call-taker, who happened to be a deputy known to the caller, asked X, is this guy in your house?

To which X replied, "how long before the deputies get here?"

True story from archy, from several years back:

Upon calling the local 911 number to report an armed robbery no longer in progress at the business I managed, the sleepy-voiced dispatcher enquired if I wished my call directed to the local police, county sheriff or fire department. I told him I'd talk with the local cops, but he might want to give the county coroner a call and send him round, too.

That woke the lad right up.

-archy-/-

48 posted on 05/31/2003 8:52:57 AM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: archy
LOL - that will sure get your attention

re: "sleepy dispatcher"

We had one that liked to sleep on the midnight shift...every once in a while one of us would find a nice deserted spot, turn on our siren and scream into the radio:

"[car #] 10-80 !!!!," create fake statict noise and then cut transmission...

...while the rest of the shift watched this dude scramble from a dead sleep and try to contact the car involved in the "chase"

49 posted on 06/01/2003 6:13:54 AM PDT by Abundy
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To: DeuceTraveler
"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans posses over the people of almost every other nation where the governments are afaird to trust the people with arms"

James Madison, The Federalist #46

50 posted on 06/03/2003 10:52:04 AM PDT by TYVets ("An armed society is a polite society." - Robert A. Heinlien & me)
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