Border security plans alarm some

ARIZONA DAILY STAR ^ | Friday, 30 May 2003 | Ignacio Ibarra

[One_American]

Border security plans alarm some

By Ignacio Ibarra
ARIZONA DAILY STAR

Miles of taller, more imposing fencing along with new roads, dozens of more powerful stadium lights and new permanent Border Patrol facilities at Willcox and Nogales are being considered along the border, federal reports show.

The plans have human-rights advocates claiming it will further militarize Arizona's border with Mexico and add to the death toll of illegal entrants, while environmental groups worry about the impact on wildlife.

"It is shameful that the United States continues to go forward with policies that have led to this human-rights crisis while at the same time trying to fool the public into believing this is going to create more security and safety," said Isabel Garcia, of the Tucson-based human-rights group Derechos Humanos.

On Saturday, Derechos Humanos and other community-based groups, including Defenders of Wildlife, will hold a 9 a.m.-1 p.m. "teach-in" at St. Cyril's Catholic Church to discuss the plans.

The Border Patrol plans are outlined in a series of environmental assessments for projects under review.

Among them is a proposal for more than 22 miles of 15-foot-tall metal or concrete fencing that would be backed by 18 miles of a secondary chain-link fence topped with razor wire and separated by a restricted-access road.

At Nogales, the Border Patrol plans only one mile of new fencing and two miles of road. But it also proposes 15 new remote video cameras along the border and another 60 portable light units.

And at Nogales and Willcox, the Border Patrol is proposing construction of new stations to better accommodate the growth of its work force.

Plans also include Operation Desert Grip, which would allow three Border Patrol encampments in Organ Pipe National Monument and Cabeza Prieta National Wildlife Refuge. Four more encampments are planned on the Tohono O'odham Reservation but are included in a separate environmental review.

Border Patrol officials in Tucson would not comment.

The Army Corps of Engineers has determined the proposed actions will not have a significant adverse effect on the environment."

The Border Patrol's long-range fencing plans would close off nearly two-thirds of the Arizona border with Mexico, shutting not only human migration and smuggling routes, but the migration routes of wildlife, said Jenny Neely, a spokeswoman for Defenders of Wildlife.

The construction of roads and walls of new lights would be a barrier to creatures like pronghorns, jaguars and ocelots known to use migration routes in Santa Cruz and Cochise County, she said.

Wes Bramhall, of Arizonans for Immigration Control, favors the plans, saying they will reduce the number of illegal crossers and their deaths.

While there may be adverse impacts on the environment, Bramhall said the problem is overstated, considering the damage illegal border crossers cause to the border's wildlands.

* Contact Ignacio Ibarra at (520) 432-2766 or at nacho1@mindspring.com.

[One_American]

Here is some progress on securing our borders.

[gubamyster]

Ping

[Grampa Dave]

Just what Al Goron would have done, if he was president!

[ibbryn]

Environmentalists should note that the Organ Pipe National Monument Park is being DESTROYED by illegal aliens.
Based upon a story I read last year, the annual number of permitted visitors (that's means US citizens who apply for permits to camp/hike legally) is exceeded in a month by the number of illegal aliens who use the park as an entry point.
These aliens trample sensitive and endangered plant life (the Organ Pipe cactus) and leave trash and feces throughout the environmentally sensetive area. They also are responsible for numerous wildfires (I seem to remember about 7 major fires last year started by illegal aliens). There are no resources allocated to clean up after them, as the "illegal" usage is not planned on, and there is no way to replace or protect the plantlife lost.
Greenpeace and Earth First should be buying AR15s and guarding theses areas from intruders.

[DLfromthedesert]

I guess the "environmentalists" don't worry too much about the wildlife when the desert is trashed and fires set by the illegal crossers.

[Choose Ye This Day]

And something needs to be done, no doubt about it, especally to protect against potential terrorists. But as far as illegal immigrants (mostly Mexicans) are concerned, they'll just find other ways of trying to sneak in--by sea, by air, etc. Long term, this may not be the only solution.

Here's my naivete: Why not make legal immigration easier, simpler and safer? These people are going to come here anyway. Realistically, I'm afraid the border will never be militarized.

Can't we make the requirements to enter strict but attainable: you must have a job lined up (90% of illegals come here because their brother/cousin/daughter already has a job in the factory and get one for their relative down South), a place to live, and no criminal history (Mexico would have to step up and cooperate). Let's reduce the waiting list, and speed things up.

You must pay a one-time entrance fee of, say, $500 (most mojados pay the coyotes more than this to get across now), which would weed out some of the freeloaders.

You will be issued a 3-year temporary work visa only. If you have not obtained citizenship AND attained at least some basic English proficiency by the end of the 3 years, it's sayonara, back to Guadalajara. (Many illegals I have known are only planning on working here a few years then returning to their native land.)

During the 3 year temporary work period, an adult wage-earner may not have more than one child or non-earning dependent in the country.

No more automatic US citizenship for infants born in our country. Citizenship only to children of citizens.

You MUST check in voluntarily every six months with the INS and provide proof of address, proof of employment, insurance, etc. (Maybe using some type of National ID for "guest workers" only, with a bar code or magnetic strip, something difficult to fake. No genuine ID card, no job, no welfare, no school, nada.) If you fail to check in, you are automatically considered illegal and subject to immediate deportation.

Any crime committed while our guest, higher than a simple misdemeanor, will get you a one-way trip home.

I have no problem with the honest and hardworking who want to come here and engage in gainful employment. But they have to play by the rules, and we have to enforce the rules. Sure, this system might be hard to implement at first, and there would be costs involved, and the ACLU would never stand for it, but I think in the long run it would be less costly than what we do now or having our military seal our borders. At least it might be a step in the right direction.

Comments, suggestions, flames?

[Tancredo Fan]

Thanks for the ping.

Someone needs to inform that communist hag Isabel Garcia that the Constitution says nothing about this 'human rights' offal she's been trotting around, and nobody has the right to invade the United states and to live here as moochers for Mexico... or whatever holes they crawled in from.

The craziness is going full bore. Here we have this bunch of Tucson losers, the despicable lefty likes of Morris 'Sleaze' Dees (who just teamed up with the anti-American gang called MALDEF and is suing Ranch Rescue), and our own government... one that refuses to put the military on the borders.

This is 'homeland security'? Ha!

[A Navy Vet]

"It is shameful that the United States continues to go forward with policies that have led to this human-rights crisis..."

Someone please explain to this old swabbie how human "rights" is in the least way connected to a sovereign nation passively protecting its borders. Guess the racist card isn't playing so well lately...now it's human "rights". Pfft.

[glock rocks]

"It is shameful that the United States continues to go forward with policies that have led to this human-rights crisis while at the same time trying to fool the public into believing this is going to create more security and safety," said Isabel Garcia, of the Tucson-based human-rights group Derechos Humanos.

I don't have a problem with the melting pot idea here in God's land, Isabel.
You and yours fail to obey our rules, yet stir up the leftist interests with your emotional blather.
You are an enemy of liberty.

The construction of roads and walls of new lights would be a barrier to creatures like pronghorns, jaguars and ocelots known to use migration routes in Santa Cruz and Cochise County, said Jenny Neely, a spokeswoman for Defenders of Wildlife.

Yet another America hating group chimes in. If the illegal immigration problem is dealt with, the wildlife problem is solved. Next?


The plans have human-rights advocates claiming it will further militarize Arizona's border with Mexico and add to the death toll of illegal entrants, while environmental groups worry about the impact on wildlife.

... and the problem with militarization is??? Have you been downtown lately?
Our cities are militarized zones... ask any SWAT member... and they are there, why?
hey, W, close the border. Fox is your enemy. did ya forget -- yer with us er yer agin us.

... or were those just convenient words written for you for expedience?

I support our president, but cannot for the life of me understand our border policy.

[Spiff]

Here's my naivete: Why not make legal immigration easier, simpler and safer? These people are going to come here anyway.

Why not make bank robbery easier, simpler, and safer? People are going to rob banks anyway. - Absurd logic.

Here's why not to allow even more immigration: NumbersUSA.com

And the numbers in this chart don't include ILLEGAL immigration.

The immigration requirements you outlined, while reasonable, would not be obeyed by the illegal border intruder. It's still too difficult. Most of them can't read anyway (even Spanish) and wouldn't be able to understand the process, the forms, etc. It's easier to pay a coyote to smuggle you up North than to jump through any of the hoops you describe.

And another thing, why does everyone assume that the border intruders are all coming here to work? Some are coming for terrorist purposes. Some are coming to commit crimes. There are many reasons that intruders cross the border illegally. I don't care what those reasons are - they need to be stopped at the border and be unable to cross. If militarizing the border is what is necessary to accomplish this, enforce our laws, and enhance homeland security - then that is what it takes.

[glock rocks]

No more automatic US citizenship for infants born in our country. Citizenship only to children of citizens.

can this be done?

what is a "natural born" citizen?

I have to say, this idea is reasonable. dang, I'm gonna have to think on that.

[wjcsux]

I like this, too. The addition of Predator UAV's for aerial surveillance would add a nice touch.

[Ten Megaton Solution]

Three years is too long for a work visa. Six months, with registration subject to both employemnt and residence verification. Allow automatic renewals for some indefinite time.

The interpretation of the 14th Amendment anchor baby provision must be reprocessed through the courts. it was originally intended to prevent the disenfranchisement of the freed slaves in southern states after the civil war. It is archaic and needs review. It clearly should be that children born of one citizen parent (native or naturalized) will be granted citizenship.

Also, you don't address the forces on this side of the border. We have a need for cheap labor. We've paid trillions of dollars over the years to create an indigenous indolent population (the welfare maggots), and we've overpriced the labor market with mandatory minimum wages. Time to end those failed experiments.

[Ten Megaton Solution]

Oops...I made the boo-boo of not reading to the bottom of you post. Forgive me, we're practically reading from the same page.

It's what I get for letting lunch wait...

[Ten Megaton Solution]

And another thing, why does everyone assume that the border intruders are all coming here to work?

I don't think that too many of us make that assumption. Just a feeling, of course. Welfare, and all the other freebies, including school, clean running water, electricity, and medical care certainly pull them in, too.

But lets' put it this way. If we make it easy for those seeking work to come over and get it (and remember, the jobs should be open to free competition with all the "citizens" that should be kicked out of the welfare hammock), then it would be a better assumption that the others crossing the border illegally are up to no good, and the public demand for border control will increase.

[citizen]

Great news! Build 'em higher and longer

bttt

[Spiff]

I don't think that too many of us make that assumption. Just a feeling, of course. Welfare, and all the other freebies, including school, clean running water, electricity, and medical care certainly pull them in, too.

Trust me, the assumption is widespread. In Arizona, almost every newspaper and TV station refers to the border intruders as "undocument workers" when they don't even know why the illegals were here but instead assume that they're "workers". Illegal "immigrant" is also a misnomer because you don't know if the intruder intends to migrate or if they're here temporarily. The correct legal term is illegal "alien" - I prefer illegal border intruder as it gets past the whole alien/foreigner thing that can possibly be minconstrued as racist.

[cake_crumb]

The environazis are protecting the very people who are destroying the environment....kinda like when they protect a mad dictator in the name of peace...

[cake_crumb]

I'd like to know how America protecting the rights of it's citizens by tightening up on the borders will cause a human rights crisis?

OOOOOOOOOHHHHHH.....the nutballs are worried about ILLEGALS, NOT AMERICANS!!

I got it now.

[BlueNgold]

The Border Patrol's long-range fencing plans would close off nearly two-thirds of the Arizona border with Mexico, shutting not only human migration and smuggling routes, but the migration routes of wildlife, said Jenny Neely, a spokeswoman for Defenders of Wildlife.

From the "There's always an angle, you just have to find it" Department.

"If we don't let illegal immigrnats through, how will the 3 toed pygmy water buffalo get to the Colorado River in the Summer? Increasing welfare and health care burdens on our people is a small price to pay in order to secure the future of this fine creature."

GAGGGG

[Ten Megaton Solution]

Oh..no. The media isn't assuming that the Mexicans are coming over for work. They're deliberately misleading the public becuase a proper statement of the facts would increase public pressure to control the borders, and the Democrat dominated media doesn't want anyone to disturb the flow of illegal voters...workers.

[PsyOp]

"predators..."

You can have all the surveilance in the world, but if you do not have agents on the ground that can go get them, all you end up with is lots of pretty video that illustrate the problem.

Border Patrol has tons of sensors on the border, and can pretty much tell you when, where and how many have crossed on any given night in certain areas. But they only have enough agents to round up a small portion of them. The rest get away under the watchful eyes of the cameras and ground sensors.

[Ten Megaton Solution]

I forgot to add this:

The politically correct media has for decades been altering America's opinions by simpling altering our vocabulary. Did ya ever notice that the bum holding his lying "pity me with money" sign on the freeway off-ramp is called "homeless" in the evening news, but the bum that was sharing the cardboard box with him is called a "transient" because he broke into a house and killed someone?

How about the Boston Glode offensive word filter that insisted on stating that a company's revenues were "in the African-American", instead of "in the black"?

Casinos are part of the gaming industry, not gambling.

How about the use of "Affirmative Action" instead of "quota"?

And the worst one of all....calling politicians and bureaucrats "public servants".

[Ten Megaton Solution]

Arm those predators and strafe parties of illegals....

[Extremist]

The construction of roads and walls of new lights would be a barrier to creatures like pronghorns, jaguars and ocelots known to use migration routes in Santa Cruz and Cochise County, she said.

So put doggy-doors in the damned fence and while we're at it enact a shoot on sight policy for border jumpers. These people are putting a stranglehold on the resources of our border states, not to mention the effect they have on society. I read yesterday that the Texas average for 11th grade English TAKS scores is around a 44% pass rate. Illegals no doubt contribute greatly to the dumbing down of our school children. They have trampled on us long enough and its damn time we got tough and ignored the jack-asses who cry "human-rights violations". Why don't those same windbags go to Mexico and/or Central and South America to fight for human rights and better economies? If you guessed its because they are chiken-$hits..You'd be right!

[lodwick]

Stop "discussing" it and build it.

[supercat]

The interpretation of the 14th Amendment anchor baby provision must be reprocessed through the courts.

To say that a person born in this country of illegal alien parents is to go against the plain wording of the Fourteenth Amendment. Whether that provision of the Fourteenth Amendment was wise, or whether it should be repealed (but probably never will be), there is no legitimate basis for disregarding it.

Nonetheless, I can see nothing unconstitutional about passing a statute that provides that any illegal aliens who give birth to a child in this country shall be sentenced to ten years in prison and banished for life; if they are ever again caught in this country, they would receive another ten years and re-deportated. If the parents want to be with the child, the child would have to leave the country with them.

Such a policy would probably discourage a lot of 'anchor babies'.

[hattend]

"It is shameful that the United States continues to go forward with policies that have led to this human-rights crisis while at the same time trying to fool the public into believing this is going to create more security and safety," said Isabel Garcia, of the Tucson-based human-rights group Derechos Humanos.

Isabel, what's really shameful is that your group isn't down in Latin America trying to end the corruption, poverty and class warfare that is causing this huge mass migration of citizens to the north.

[FITZ]

said Isabel Garcia, of the Tucson-based human-rights group Derechos Humanos.

Isabel should be glad ---this is doing something ---they won't suffocate in trailers and train cars in the hot Texas or Iowa or Arizona heat if they never make it across in the first place. They won't have to worry about losing any rights in the USA because they won't be here. Maybe Isabel and her ilk could move to Mexico now also and start worrying about Mexican rights in their own country.

[FITZ]

Not to mention that many of the illegals settle in the SW where they can easily keep their own culture etc but the SW USA cannot handle cities of millions of people, why don't the environmentalists look at what has become of S. Cal as it fills up with people ----do they want the national parks turned into government housing projects for all the new people they intend to import?

[FITZ]

We've paid trillions of dollars over the years to create an indigenous indolent population (the welfare maggots),

But who were their ancestors? Some are descended from people brought over for cheap labor back in the days of slavery, others are descended from Europeans who we "needed" for their cheap labor in the Industrial age. And many of the welfare class are immigrants themselves who came specifically to get in on it.

[omega4412]

Casinos are part of the gaming industry, not gambling.

Right. The "gaming industry," not the "gambling racket"

[DLfromthedesert]

And why is a Catholic church letting her use its property to do her dirty work?

[Tancredo Fan]

And why is a Catholic church letting her use its property to do her dirty work?

Because they are a huge part of the problem. They think they are above the law, and it appears that they and the invaders are.... which appears to present a constitutional problem.

[PLMerite]

I think it would require some Constitutional "fine tuning."

But of course it can be done if there is the political will.

[Jennikins]

No genuine ID card, no job, no welfare, no school, nada.) If you fail to check in, you are automatically considered illegal and subject to immediate deportation.

Who is going to deport them if they can't find them? Do you actually think they are going to "check in"??

I had friends coming into the LA area, and they wanted to stay at a Ramada Inn. I looked in the phone book, and found about 20 pages of " Ramirez" as a last name as I was looking for the Ramada Inn near where I live. How could anyone find a person who should be deported if there are that many names, many with the same first names?

[philetus]

The "environmentalists" only exist to steal land from American citizens.

They will not interfere in anything that helps bring the "elite's" ultimate goal closer to reality.

[45Auto]

There is no strong political will in the US to actually really do something about securing our southern border. The reason? Money and lobbying pressure from agribusiness and others on pimp-Congressmen. To wit:

"Today, potential candidates for mass deportation can be traced through what analysts say is the main source driving illegal immigration: jobs. Yet elected officials under lobbying pressure from special interests have derailed every recent worksite enforcement attempt by the INS.

According to the Center for Immigration Studies, the modest number of illegal immigrant workers it managed to round up through its 1998 raids during Georgia’s Vidalia onion harvest were overwhelmingly obscured by the thousands who fled the fields to avoid arrest.

Soon, local pressure from employers and local politicians resulted in letters of outrage from both of the state’s Senators and three of its Representatives to the U.S. Attorney General and Secretaries of the Departments of Agriculture and Labor citing a “lack of concern for the farmer.”

Translation: greedy agribusiness wants cheap labor and would like immunity from the laws of the land to get that labor. Shielding itself from criticism by projecting a sentimental image of “family farms” that hasn’t corresponded with the industrialized and corporate-controlled agricultural reality in this country in years, agribusiness uses political power to violate the law for profit.

Other industries that run on cheap illegal labor, like the restaurant trade, do the same less crassly. These interests are guilty of aiding, abetting, and profiting from crime and should be treated as such. We can start by imposing sufficiently large fines on employers of illegals.

Under a realistic deportation program, Congress would allocate the necessary workforce funding for INS inspectors to target key trades and worksites. A working model appeared in April 1999, when the INS embarked on Operation Vanguard, targeting illegal workers in the Midwest’s meatpacking industry through audits of employee personnel records.

Why the meat-packing industry? Because in the last 30 years, meat-packing has gone from being one of the most solid and well-paid blue collar jobs to a low-wage sweatshop industry, almost entirely on the backs of cheap foreign labor, much of it illegal. This erosion of the economic base of the American working class must be resisted if we are to maintain our commitment to a middle-class society. (And by the way, do you think these people are going to vote Republican?)"

[45Auto]

The above quotes are from an article in Front Page Magazine:

Steve Brown

[45Auto]

Homeland security without strong border control is a joke; or worse, it really is about further erosion of Constitutional protections against privacy intrusions of a nosy government into the lives of - not illegal aliens - but its own citizens. Perhaps the government really does fear its own citizens more than it does another 9/11. Yeah, I know, just another paranoid conspiracy theorist.

[One_American]

"We can start by imposing sufficiently large fines on employers of illegals".

I agree. To stop this invasion will take several steps;

1)Secure the border from San Diego, CA to Brownsville, TX.
2)Fine and/or prosecute the employers of illegal aliens.
3)Cut all services to illegals exept emergency medical care. Let there be no incentive for 'freebies' for illegal aliens
4)Deport all illegal aliens.

I'm afraid it will never happen though. If they choose not to enter our country by legal means then they deserve nothing.

[F16Fighter]

" Someone please explain to this old swabbie how human 'rights' is in the least way connected to a sovereign nation passively protecting its borders."

The insane apparently think they should be running the asylum as well...

Isabel Garcia is of the ilk of loons who upon assaulting someone in the face with their fist would later claim the victim's face was a "weapon."

[Choose Ye This Day]

"Who is going to deport them if they can't find them?...How could anyone find a person who should be deported if there are that many names, many with the same first names?"

How do we deport them now? I mean, that's what the INS has been trying to do for decades. It's much harder when the vast majority of immigrants are illegal. Make the legal process easier for those that want to work honestly, and you'll have fewer lawbreakers to hunt down.


"Do you actually think they are going to 'check in'??"

The honest ones that are here to work--of course they will. Especially when the ID Card is needed to be hired, get services, etc. If somebody doesn't check in, the INS can just "cancel the card," making it show up as invalid the next time a potential employer swipes it, or the police swipe them when they pull 'em over for speeding, etc.

[Choose Ye This Day]

>>>Why not make legal immigration easier, simpler and safer? These people are going to come here anyway.

"Why not make bank robbery easier, simpler, and safer? People are going to rob banks anyway. - Absurd logic."


Umm...excuse me. Last time I checked, bank robbery is a crime.

LEGAL immigration, as I specifically stated, is not a crime. That's how my ancestors got here. Yours too?

My problem isn't so much with the numbers of immigrants coming in, it's with the fact that they do it illegally, and once they're here they are living in a shadow culture. We don't know where they are, they often steal others' identities, etc. They tend to congregate in Spanish-speaking neighborhoods and enclaves, rather than assimilating, because they fear that too much interaction with gringos increases their chances of getting caught and deported.

Let's make it easier for the honest workers to come here temporarily, but let's do it in a smart way so we know where they are.

[DakotaGator]

The plans have human-rights advocates claiming it will further militarize Arizona's border with Mexico...

I like this plan.

[EastCoast]

We need a grassroots movement against the Ford Foundation and the Club of Rome until their existence is no longer a threat to our sovereignty.

[bybybill]

When Reagan was the Gov. of California, he was a for "guest workers" which was a great idea. Over the years it has become the "guest welfare" program.

[Brownie74]

I could really care less what Isabel Garcia thinks.

She can take a leap at a rolling donut for all I care!!!

I think I will fire off an email to Ms. Nacho.

[MissAmericanPie]

Everyone keeps claiming that no terrorists have come across the Mexican border. Why is that? Has everyone forgotten about the five terrorists brought into the country by a coyote and found within a couple of miles of Bush's Crawford ranch?

One would think that this would have been front page news for weeks, but nooooo, not a whisper. Fox News isn't really doing such a good job with it's fluff pieces, and it's tendency to be a non-stop account of Laci Peterson, whom I feel sorry for but could manage to get buy with a once a month update on the progress of the case.

[4Freedom]

What do you believe the 14th Amendment says?

You make it sound like it says 'All persons born in the United States are citizens of the United States.'

It doesn't. That's only what the stupid Liberals want you to believe it says.

You have to ignore half the words in that clause to arrive at that misinterpretation.