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Europe Returning to Pagan Roots
NewsMax ^ | May 30, 2003 | Fr. Mike Reilly

Posted on 05/30/2003 9:55:54 PM PDT by Hugenot

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To: Hunble
Ducking what? :P All I did was point out that there WERE patriotic Christians in the Roman Empire. And in that instance, they got the shaft big-time. Otherwise, I got nothing to say about the rest of the thread as I'm not a history major or anything of the sort. Just pointing out a specific story which I heard a while back (Oughta pop the tape I made into the vcr and refresh my memory).
321 posted on 06/01/2003 9:38:42 PM PDT by Green Knight (Looking forward to seeing Jeb stepping over Hillary's rotting political corpse in '08.)
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To: Green Knight
Unpatriotic in the sense that they didn't participate in the myriad state rituals and devotion to the Emperor.


How do you feel about people who refuse to stand during the Pledge of Allegiance? I suspect the Romans felt the same way.
322 posted on 06/01/2003 9:41:35 PM PDT by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus, Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: ffusco
Well, I guess that's where you and I part ways, then, because I don't view the two as comparable. Big difference between uttering the phrase "One nation under God" and forcing people to worship the Emperor as if he were a god. And whatever I may think of people who don't say the Pledge of Allegiance, I don't think they should be forced to do so. They certainly don't deserve to die for not doing so, the way Morris and his men died even though in every other way they were completely loyal to the empire.
323 posted on 06/01/2003 9:48:13 PM PDT by Green Knight (Looking forward to seeing Jeb stepping over Hillary's rotting political corpse in '08.)
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To: Green Knight
I don't agree with their hard line either, but tried to put it in perspective. And as for persecuting people who don't stand for the Pof A- it wouldn't be Christian!

324 posted on 06/01/2003 9:54:36 PM PDT by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus, Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: ffusco
The Pof A-? Wuzzat? Oops, Pledge of Allegiance. Nevermind.
325 posted on 06/01/2003 10:07:46 PM PDT by Green Knight (Looking forward to seeing Jeb stepping over Hillary's rotting political corpse in '08.)
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To: jscd3
Wait for the various protestant freepers to descend upon you for that one.
326 posted on 06/01/2003 10:46:27 PM PDT by TheAngryClam (Nil igitur mors est ad nos neque pertinet hilum/quandoquidem natura animi mortalis habetur)
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To: TheAngryClam
Freeper Schism?
327 posted on 06/01/2003 10:52:46 PM PDT by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus, Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: ffusco
Which one?

The Great Scism is probably the Libertarian/Republican divide, with the protestant reformation being the Go Pat Go people and the general other people who hate the GOP for being too, well, willing to be successful.
328 posted on 06/01/2003 11:50:27 PM PDT by TheAngryClam (Nil igitur mors est ad nos neque pertinet hilum/quandoquidem natura animi mortalis habetur)
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To: ffusco
Christainity was one new reilgeon among dozens practiced throughout the Empire and for the most part thet were all tolerated.

As mentioned above, Christianity was "tolerated" for about 120 out of 250 years. And this toleration was a kind of soft persecution like that under Trajan where Roman agents were enjoined not to seek out Christians, but any who were presented to them and admitted that they were Christians, could be subject to the death penalty. That's not exactly "tolerance" in any modern sence of the word.

Mithraism from Persia, the olympian gods, Isis from Egypt, Sol Invicta (early monotheism) Sibylline oracles. Rome was a cosmopolitan place like America is today, with many different peoples and beliefs.

All the cults you mention above did not possess the exclusive character of Christianity. The Romans used their polytheistic religion as a tool of cultural assimilation when they annexed neighboring kingdoms. To keep everybody happy, they simply annexed that nation's pantheon into their own. As is well known, they were not successful in doing this in Judea and this led to a string of horrible civil wars in that region.

As Christianity is sprung from Judaism, it's not surprising that they'd share this exclusivity that prevented them from worshiping false gods. That 1st Commandment is a real bear.

Augustus Ceasar decreed that Synogogues were invioble and Jews were exempt from appearing in court on the Sabbeth.

Augustus was incredibly savvy and knew when to press the issue and when to keep his powder dry. This was a trait that was shared by depressingly few of his successors.

Romans persecuted Christains because they felt that they alone possessed the truth ( which at that time was hardly self-evident) and that All other religeons, even state ones were false.

You mean like the cult of the Emperor, for instance? That was the big no-no for most Christians and where many got in trouble.

They refused to observe ritual acts (think Pledge of Allegiance) .

Sorry, but it's impossible to compare the mandatory worship of a god-on-earth to the voluntary reciting of the Pledge of Allegiance in this country.

You are welcome to think what you want about me and question my faith but its rather un-Christain of you.

One simple answer will clear any questions up. You have been transported in time to the court of the Emperor Marcus Aurelius--one of the five good emperors by most accounts. You, as the Catholic you are, have been accused of being a Christian and are asked to sacrifice to the Roman gods and renounce your faith. If you do not do so, the result is scorging and beheading. What would you do?
329 posted on 06/02/2003 10:51:50 AM PDT by Antoninus (In hoc signo, vinces )
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To: ffusco
That's a loaded question.

Sure it is. However, I have no trouble answering it for myself. God coming to earth in human form, revealing the secrets of the Kingdom of Heaven to simple men, allowing himself to be killed and rising from the dead after three days--these things had a much greater impact on Western civilization than Plato's writings.

This is not to take anything away from Plato, mind you. He was a genius with many brilliant, radical, and revolutionary ideas, no doubt about that. And it is commonly recognized that Plato's ideas helped lay the groundwork for Christianity. Indeed, I think some medieval Christian scholars considered Plato sort of a gentile prophet.
330 posted on 06/02/2003 10:57:56 AM PDT by Antoninus (In hoc signo, vinces )
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To: Antoninus
Excellent reply to my evasive answer, BTW. I would have to say that Christ has been the biggest spiritual inspirational figure in history, and Plato perhaps the biggest intellectual inspiration in History. Plato WAS to the mind what Christ IS to the soul.
331 posted on 06/02/2003 12:58:17 PM PDT by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus, Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: freedom moose
hi f m,
just read your response to my post. Maybe post- Christian would be more accurate. I have not been to Europe, only have read much on how pagan practices are gaining in popularity around Europe. Of course I do not mean the church, that is, the body of believers in Christ, are not there, of course not. There are true Christians everywhere, but I just mean in the secular world of popular "religion".

Here in America, there are lots of true Christians everywhere. But in the secular culture, it is very very post Christian and is definately becoming pagan in belief (worldview) in many areas, especially here in CA. I live in the most secular part of America. Eastern new age "spirituality" is really gaining ground here.
332 posted on 06/02/2003 1:58:04 PM PDT by Gal.5:1 (yes I am a Gal, no I'm not 51 or 5'1")
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To: Gal.5:1
especially here in CA. I live in the most secular part of America. Eastern new age "spirituality" is really gaining ground here.
yeah, i hear that alot about CA from friends. I guess it's been that way for a while. :(
are they still playing with crystals? or was that just a bad stereotype of CA new-agers?
333 posted on 06/02/2003 2:09:04 PM PDT by freedom moose
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To: Hugenot
"Aetas parentum peior avis tulit
nos nequiores, mox daturos
progeniem vitiosiorem."


--Ovid

Our fathers, viler than our grandfathers
begat us who are even viler
and we shall bring for a progeny more degenerate still.
334 posted on 06/03/2003 6:11:15 AM PDT by TheWillardHotel
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To: freedom moose
crystals are so 80's, lol. Right now yoga is huge. It is everywhere. In ads, in beauty supply shops, in stores, at the "YMCA", at the recreation center, in the hospitals, in the public schools. It is being marketed to everyone, young and old as either exercise or a health therapy. Also being taught in schools and seen around the community are traditional American Indian religion (spirits, totem poles, dreamcatchers, medicine wheel), honoring 'Mother Earth', saving the Earth, Mexican pre-Christian (pagan) ceremonies involving spirits and the dead etc, Astrology. I know it is everywhere and just the tip of the iceberg , but it's all so popular here. Eastern spirituality disguised as new innovative ways of achieving health and awareness are the main thing I've noticed lately around here (SF bay area). Here's a letter I wrote to the editor; of course it did not get published. It was way too long, anyway.

May 21, 2003

Editor, San Mateo Times,

I am a former resident of Burlingame, and a former student of Lincoln school; I graduated in 1979. I went on to B.I.S., Mills , CSM and CA State. I am now raising my three children at home full time in San Mateo.

I have many memories of Lincoln school, but the best is the memory of our beloved P.E. teacher Rudy Benton, or “Mr. B.” He was so much fun. Where else would I have learned sports, square dancing, obstacle courses and “The Hustle”? (Remember disco?) I will always remember Mr. B. In the 70’s, P.E. was not about finding inner peace and ‘going into yourself’.

Except for some ‘values clarification’ lessons, which attempted to get me to challenge the values I was learning at home and in private institutions, my public education at Lincoln was neutral in the areas of philosophy, worldview and religion. As a student of government sponsored, tax funded schooling, I received my religious education at home, and also in church. But that was 1979.

Today I noticed the front page story “P.E. Goes Hip” in the Times newspaper. I am outraged (but not surprised) that Lincoln school is teaching Yoga to the students. The fact is, Yoga is basically an application of the Hindu theistic philosophy, or belief system. Therefore Lincoln school is in effect teaching eastern religion to the children of Burlingame with the help of two private organizations, Sinnyo-En Temple and Mills-Peninsula Health Services, “in partnership”.

This public-private partnership method of attempting to bypass the Constitution and teach children to believe in the world’s various religions or the neo-pagan, ecumenical “new faith” of global universalism or “spirituality”, purposely continues the deconstruction of our nation’s Judeo-Christian founding, heritage and worldview.

San Mateo, CA
335 posted on 06/03/2003 10:58:18 AM PDT by Gal.5:1 (yes I am a Gal, no I'm not 51 or 5'1")
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Comment #336 Removed by Moderator

To: NIHIL; Admin Moderator
Oh, you're lame. Try again, flame boy.

You're just a troll, and one of Satan's patsies. How frustrating it must be not to have his playbook.


Pathetic.

Admin, watch for this clown which (not who) signed up 8-2-03.
337 posted on 08/02/2003 10:19:05 PM PDT by petuniasevan ("There are lies, damned lies, and statistics." -Mark Twain)
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