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To: AntiGuv
"The authoritarian, ecumenical impulses of the former have been breaking down inexorably for at least four centuries now into a fractured, decentralized patchwork."

Exactly, beginning with the fleeing of people from Europe for the new world (America). And why were these people fleeing Europe, to escape the oppressive rule of church and state. So today, we have some people who want to re-create that European model here.

Maybe it is we who still have something to learn and not the EU.

5 posted on 05/30/2003 10:29:15 PM PDT by Kerberos (Ah yes the liberal democrats, united as ever in opportunism and error. Tony Blair 3/18/03)
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To: Kerberos
Exactly, beginning with the fleeing of people from Europe for the new world (America). And why were these people fleeing Europe, to escape the oppressive rule of church and state. So today, we have some people who want to re-create that European model here.

Yeah, a "church" that was specifically set up so that a degenrate king could divorce and remarry. I still find it amazing that anyone is surprised, historically speaking, that such a "church" turned out to be tyrannical.

Otherwise, the point of your premise is wholly ludicrous. I guess that's why strong churches grew up so quickly in the United States? And when the immigrants of the 19th and 20th century came here (the large majority Catholic), it was to escape political-statist oppression of the kind that killed priests, burned churches, and attempted to control religious leaders. There are many in this country today who attempt to do similar things to those religious leaders who don't tow the secular/elitist line on issues such as homosexuality, abortion, birthcontrol. We will fight them now as we did then.

And guess what? We already know the ending. The good guys win.
148 posted on 05/31/2003 9:09:52 AM PDT by Antoninus (In hoc signo, vinces )
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To: Kerberos
It's ironic that the pagan cultures trumpeted by many fat computer geeks would have killed them in childhood if they had been born into them. Porky was killed when he couldn't keep up.
294 posted on 06/01/2003 2:46:35 PM PDT by zonan
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