Ex-Army boss: Pentagon won't admit reality in Iraq

USA TODAY ^ | 3 Jun 03 | Dave Moniz

[SLB]

WASHINGTON — The former civilian head of the Army said Monday it is time for the Pentagon to admit that the military is in for a long occupation of Iraq that will require a major commitment of American troops. Former Army secretary Thomas White said in an interview that senior Defense officials "are unwilling to come to grips" with the scale of the postwar U.S. obligation in Iraq. The Pentagon has about 150,000 troops in Iraq and recently announced that the Army's 3rd Infantry Division's stay there has been extended indefinitely.

[SLB]

This is not a case of sour grapes. It is a "told you so" and you didn't listen.

[SLB]

Rummy is going to have start turning on the charm or face the music.

[verity]

If you continue grinding your axe, you may have to purchase a replacement. :~)

[Future Snake Eater]

Oh for God's sake, who didn't already know all this? Bush had been saying all along that we'll be there as long as it takes, so has Rumsfeld. And, obviously, it'll take a sizeable force to execute the mission. These people need to quit their bitching.

Would they have NOT supported the war had they faced the reality of our commitment, post-war?

[AppyPappy]

I think the Administration has talked the UN into taking over the occupation in exchange for oil money. I think that is why the UN is going along now.

[aristeides]

FYI.

[Mustang]

Post Japan's defeat, we were there about 5 or 6 years...also in Germany for 1 or 2 less, in assisting them to get their act together. (geeezzzz...we're still their).

Democracy isn't Nescafe...ya'just don't add water.

Mustang sends from "Malpaso News"

[SLB]

Post Japan's defeat, we were there about 5 or 6 years...also in Germany for 1 or 2 less, in assisting them to get their act together.

Exactly right on the money. White was talking realism and Rummy was trying to lead the public into believing this would be a "slam bam, thank you mam" type of operation. How long have we had troops in Bosnia?

[Grampa Dave]

So who did you vote for president in 2000?

[SLB]

Neither Bush nor Gore!

[caltrop]

The people who wanted us to go to war with Iraq weren't much interested in hearing anything that didn't support their position. I have a problem with that since I see the armed forces' mission as defending the US instead of wandering around the world looking for dragons to slay.

Beyond the financial cost, we're going to commit a huge percentage of the Army to this effort. Hopefully, we won't need them to defend the US in the meantime.

I didn't support our invasion of Iraq, don't support our occupation and believe that, in a couple of years, most of us will be sorry we ever heard of the place. The sooner we're out of there the better.

[Grampa Dave]

So you voted for one of the third party losers, that you will not admit to.

When you have elected a president and a congress, maybe we will pay attention to your whining. Now your whining is irrelevant.

[ContemptofCourt]

So you voted for one of the third party losers, that you will not admit to.

When you have elected a president and a congress, maybe we will pay attention to your whining. Now your whining is irrelevant.

What a ridiculous comment.....and SLB has a point. The administration sold the people a bill of goods that did not include the occupation of Iraq with hundreds of thousands of US troops....oh, sure, they said that we would be there as long as it takes blah blah blah, but they said that for people like you, so then when we are having this very conversation you can use that as your argument.

And Iraq is different than Germany or Japan. If you can't see that, then there is really no reason to debate this issue.

[Grampa Dave]

No it isn't.

The third party whiners/losers hate our president, Rummy, Powell and our military more than the Rats do.

They are the ridiculous ones who sound and act like Baghdad Bob with all of the whining and moaning. They are as relevant as Baghdad Bob was/is.

[Austin Willard Wright]

Well said. It is a fascinating to see all the pro-war "revisist" newspeak here about everything from WMD to to democracy in Iraq. Before the war, I was repeatedly reassured that it would take a minimal number of troops to occupy the country and also that a "democratic" interim government would be created quickly.

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

I'd measure the honesty of this administration and THIS military against the press and the NGOs and the retired military - the facts are stubborn things.

The press, with their selective reporting, 24/7 negativity - purposely ignoring the daily logs from CENTCOM - the lengthy detailed records of our good works and progress in securing the nation - ignoring the big picture daily, that in a nation of 24 million newly freed Iraqis and over 200,000 Coalition troops - we have NO riots, very few casualties weekly - the numbers don't match the accusations from the press and their anti-American mouthpieces in Iraq - this is not "chaos", this is NOT a nation that doesn't want us.

The press, imho, is guilty of war crimes by not accurately reporting the facts - by just plain lying to the American people, the world - and the Iraqi people now being further terrorized by those who want our efforts to fail.

For every sacrifice our troops make, for every Coalition casualty - we take out far more regime bad guys and terrorist wannabes. Where's the press on that daily story? Or how the Iraqi people in every community are pointing out the weapons' caches and bad guys to US? You think the Iraqi people would just let all that weaponry sit there if they didn't welcome the USA? Do you know how many truckloads we've carted away and mountains we've detonated? Press doesn't report that, either. Our enemies provided the Iraqi people with plenty of weapons to use against us. They CHOSE not to.

Many are attempting to sow fear and anger, and incite uprisings in Iraq today. Some, NGOS, etc., because they profitted by spreading anti-American hate - blaming us for Saddam starving the Iraqi children, some just took Saddam's $$$ and remained silent for years. Most either hate President Bush and/or have much to lose when the world sees that the "evil capitalist military industrial complex" IS the true liberator of the oppressed people. Then, we have the militant Islamists who resent our occupation - mostly from outside of Iraq.

Make no mistake, THIS press has been undermining our efforts from day one. Our enemies know how to use our media - and our media is more than happy to let them.

---

June 2, 2003
Release Number: 03-06-04

COALITION AND IRAQI POLICE WORK TO MAKE IRAQ SECURE (June 2, 2003)

CAMP DOHA, Kuwait -- Coalition Forces continue to aggressively patrol Iraq to eliminate crimes against people and property, rid populated areas of weapons, ammunition and explosives, and stop the black market trade in fuel and other commodities. Coalition Forces also continue to conduct joint security patrols with Iraqi police in their efforts to increase the professionalism of the police force and prepare them for their role in a self-governed Iraq.

Weapons Turn-In Program:

Iraqi citizens voluntarily turned in a variety of weapons under the Weapons Turn-In Program that began June 1. In Baghdad alone, Iraqi citizens turned in 9 AK-47 rifles, 50 heavy machine gun rounds, 35 rocket-propelled grenade launchers and a variety of small arms ammunition to Coalition Forces. They expect an increase in the number of weapons and munitions the Iraqi people will turn in as they become more confident about the value of the program. The amnesty period of the Weapons Turn-In Program will run through June 14.

Coalition Activity:

Soldiers from the 173d Airborne Brigade raided several sites yesterday in Kirkuk to capture former regime members. They captured the former personal bodyguard of Uday Hussein at one site and captured a total of six other suspected former regime members.

Soldiers from the 1st Brigade Combat Team, 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) raided a suspected black market for weapons in the Qayyarah market yesterday. They detained 18 people for questioning, and seized 92 blasting caps and 3 rolls of detonation cord.

Soldiers from the 1st Brigade Combat Team, 4th Infantry Division raided two sites north of Baghdad yesterday. They detained two people for questioning, and seized two AK-47 rifles and several cases of ammunition.

Soldiers from the 1st Battalion, 44th Infantry Regiment raided a site in Tikrit yesterday after they observed tracer fire coming from the same direction. They detained one man for questioning, and confiscated six AK-47 rifles, several hundred light machine-gun rounds and a shotgun.

Members from 1st Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment and U.S. Army military police worked in Al Hillah together and arrested two men yesterday for selling Liquid Petroleum Gas on the black market. They also confiscated several weapons and about 1 million Iraqi Dinar from confessed gun dealers during Al Hillah vehicle checkpoint operations.

Police Activity in the Last 24 Hours:

Coalition Forces conducted 14 raids and a total of 2,363 patrols throughout Iraq. Of those patrols, they conducted 249 joint Iraqi and Coalition patrols. They also detained or arrested 76 individuals for a variety of criminal activity, including looting, curfew violations, weapons violations, theft, larceny and dealing drugs.

Recent Police Activity:

In the last 24 hours of raids and patrolling activity, soldiers from V Corps seized 12 AK-47 rifles, 5 light machine guns, 17 rocket-grenade launchers, 11 pistols and 14 grenades. They turned the weapons into U.S. military collection points for safekeeping or disposal.

Iraqi police and soldiers from the 233d Military Police Company served a larceny warrant on an Iraqi man in Baghdad recently. They took the suspect to the Al Karrada Police Station.

Soldiers from the 204th Military Police Company raided a site in Baghdad recently to capture former regime members. They captured 16 people who were members of the Old National Police Academy Faculty and high-ranking associates in the Ba'ath Party. They took the captured former faculty and regime members to a U.S. military facility for questioning.

Iraqi police and soldiers from the 307th Military Police Company apprehended four suspects while on a joint patrol in Baghdad recently. The suspects fired on them when the patrol attempted to stop the small truck they were driving. The truck occupants attempted to flee the scene, but they disabled the truck when they tried to drive through several strands of concertina wire. The passengers fired at the patrol as they attempted to flee. The patrol members returned fire, chased after the suspects, and finally apprehended them. They searched the truck and confiscated 2 AK-47 rifles and 45 rounds of ammunition. Patrol members took the four suspects to the East Baghdad Jail, and turned the truck and contraband into a U.S. military collection point.

---

CENTCOM:

 

June 3, 2003
Release Number: 03-06-06

COALITION EFFORTS AID IRAQ'S RECOVERY (June 3, 2003)

CAMP DOHA, Kuwait – Coalition Forces continue to assist in developing a safer and more secure environment in Iraq through the following activities.

BAGHDAD
Coalition Forces:
• Continued measures to reduce crime, host neighborhood advisory council meetings and provide school and medical supplies.
• Contracted 350-400 Iraqis to begin work at the International Airport, tentatively planning on resuming commercial traffic in the next month.
• Reports the Baghdad City Hall should be fully operational in 2 weeks.
• Recently destroyed 34 tons of captured Iraqi ordnance. A total of 6,319 tons of ammunition from 13 out of 23 cache sites have been consolidated and removed from Baghdad to date.
• Collected soccer balls for distribution as part of “Operation US Soccer,” an American Youth Soccer Organization sponsored program.
• Worked with the Government of Jordan and Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) key officials to increase Iraqi business involvement with the Jordanian American Business Association (JABA) Iraqi Reconstruction Conference. About 400 business and government officials have registered for the conference.
• Provided Coalition military construction support to assess and repair an Iraqi police station, restore municipal facilities at Abu Ghraib, and the Mansour, Thawra, Al Rashid, and Karkh.
• Met with about 500 food distribution agents to prepare for food distribution operations this week.
• Met with USAID representatives to share information on civil affairs capabilities and provide small loans to businesses.
• Distributed 3.4 million liters of gasoline, and 58,940 bottles of propane in Baghdad.

NORTHERN IRAQ

IRBIL / MOSUL / TIKRIT / KIRKUK
Coalition Forces:
• Conducted a Task Force Neighborhood mission in Makhmur, focusing cleanup operations on the local school and market area.
• Continued road-building operations in the Bardiyah area.
• Continued deliveries of potable water to the Sununi area, and hosted a meeting among local water supervisors and Red Cross personnel to determine the long-term water supply needs in the area.
• Replaced unserviceable culverts in Baqubah.
• Plan to fill medical supply shortfalls within 48 hours in Al Biaj.
• Received 22 trucks of bulk food shipments at Ar Ramadi UN Food distribution site, for a total of 525 shipments to date.

SOUTHERN IRAQ

AL KUT
23rd Marine Regiment recently:
• Assisted in efforts renovate a former Iraqi Army water treatment plant that provides filtered and chlorinated water to approximately 5,000 people.

AN NAJAF
7th Marine Regiment recently:
• Reported continued power improvements. The city currently has 100 megawatts of power, 55 from the power grid and 45 from the power plant, more than double their previous power supply.
• Assisted in World Food Program food distribution at two sites.

AL HILLAH
• Received 33 benzene/gasoline trucks.

AS SAMAWAH
• Reported electric power was restored to 60 megawatts, which exceeds pre-war conditions.
• Coordinated with the Ministry of Education in Baghdad for funds to support end of year school tests and test administration.

---

VOICES OF FREEDOM
Quotes from the grateful Iraqi people. Y

“I cannot describe how I am glad. After so many years of dictatorship, we have chosen our own leader.”
Kemal Kerkuki, after participating in the election of Kirkuk’s new mayor, The New York Times, 5/29/03

“I’m not going to mention his name in class anymore. No more Saddam.”
Naheda Muhammad Nage, an Iraqi schoolteacher, The New York Times, 05/28/03

---

Survey shows Iraqi people support US Presence
MEMRI ^ | May 28, 2003 | Al-Sharq Al-Awsat via Memri

SURVEY CONDUCTED BY THE IRAQI INSTITUTION FOR DEMOCRACY IN BAGHDAD SHOWED THAT MOST IRAQIS SUPPORT CONTINUED AMERICAN PRESENCE UNTIL DEMOCRATIC ELECTIONS ARE HELD IN IRAQ. (AL-SHARQ AL-AWSAT, LONDON 5/28/03)

[SLB]

And Iraq is different than Germany or Japan. If you can't see that, then there is really no reason to debate this issue

Sometimes folks can't see the forest for the trees. It is so obvious that they do not choose to understand or even listen to logical arguements.

[hchutch]

I'd love to hear you explain away those mobile labs we found. Are they "baby milk factories"? If so, why were they scrubbed down with a caustic substance?

And explain away the pattern of conduct that Saddam engaged in, while you're at it. If he ditched the WMDs, why not say so and show it on CNN? Oh, and explain away that little chat in Prague that an Iraqi intelligence agent had with Mohammed Atta and that Boeing airliner at Salman Pak, if you can...

[SLB]

in a couple of years, most of us will be sorry we ever heard of the place.

I am already seeing email from the rank and file soldiers telling a whole different story than what the military is allowing the press to release. Many of the posters to this thread just show how easily even FReeprs are led down the wrong path.

[Richard Kimball]

They are as relevant as Baghdad Bob was/is.

No they're not. Baghdad Bob could get a cable TV show in a minute. You think any of these guys could?

[dennisw]

So you voted for Ralph Nader or a libertarian loon for president. You just couldn't pull the lever for George Bush as did 95% of Freepers. You're too precious and pure to do that

[Grampa Dave]

They are as relevant as Baghdad Bob was/is.

No they're not. Baghdad Bob could get a cable TV show in a minute. You think any of these guys could?

Excellent point!

[Miss Marple]

What e-mails? From which soldiers? I have seen several e-mails as well, and they support the mission in Iraq and say nothing like you are inferring.

[jpl]

Nobody's getting fooled, it's all sour grapes, and it's mostly coming from old Clinton stooges. I say don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. And besides, it's good for the generals to be reminded every once in a while that even though their opinions are welcome, their job is to follow orders.

[ilgipper]

At what point did anyone in Washington, or here for that matter, say that we wouldn't have a long term obligation in Iraq, and that it would take some time to transition? I missed those comments.

[ilgipper]

Iraq is not the same as Germany or Japan, but Germany was not the same as Japan. Each case involves a different set of people, and a different culture. It was said here that it took 5-6 years in Japan, 1-2 year in Germany, yet people here think 30 days after Iraq was taken, we should be bringing all our troops home. Talk about unreasonable expectations.

[Eagle Eye]

He's a name caller, not a debater.

He's swallowed the official line as well as the hook and sinker.

[Protagoras]

So who did you vote for president in 2000?

Good question,,,,,,,,,for a pollster. But irrelevant to the topic. Unless changing the topic is the goal.

[Protagoras]

No it isn't.

The third party whiners/losers hate our president, Rummy, Powell and our military more than the Rats do.

I don't and I have the same concerns as well as others. Now what?

What did you have for breakfast this morning?

[BOBTHENAILER]

And Iraq is different than Germany or Japan. If you can't see that, then there is really no reason to debate this issue.

We've been in the newly liberated Iraq about 2 months now and already the naysayers, handwringers and world class thumbsuckers (to borrow A Rummy classic) are howling, pi$$ing and moaning about how wrong everybody was in the Pentagon. Give it some time and then complain, until then, hide and watch and you may be severely disappointed.

Our leadership from the top down to the lowest private on the streets of Baghdad have done a magnificent job, unequaled in history. All you want to do is tear it down.

[Grampa Dave]

No it is right on target when the third party losers/whiners attack our President, Rummy and other administration people.

It is time to identify the attackers as the irrelevant losers in American Politics. They can't win at the ballot box, so they try to electronically lynch the winners.

[Protagoras]

They can't win at the ballot box, so they try to electronically lynch the winners.

So any criticism is an electronic lynching? No questions can be asked? No one is allowed to hold anyone's feet to the fire?

It is time to identify the attackers as the irrelevant losers in American Politics.

It's time for you to attack the questions and topics instead of the posters.

[Eagle Eye]

No it is right on target when the third party losers/whiners attack our President, Rummy and other administration people. It is time to identify the attackers as the irrelevant losers in American Politics. They can't win at the ballot box, so they try to electronically lynch the winners.

You sound like the reverse side of the clintonoid coin. Your smear tactics are straight from the liberal democrat playbook.

SLB didn't attack anyone, but you feel the need to silence any opinions that don't mesh with yours.

[Grampa Dave]

Naah.

The days of Republicans rolling over and allowing the third party whiners to attack our President, his cabinet and our military are over. Get used to it.

[Protagoras]

What about the topic?

[Protagoras]

So any criticism is an electronic lynching? No questions can be asked? No one is allowed to hold anyone's feet to the fire?

[BOBTHENAILER]

What did you have for breakfast this morning?

Thick cut hickory smoked bacon, two eggs over easy, imported Hatch New Mexico green chiles (hot) diced and mixed with the eggs, white sourdough toast topped off with a steaming mug of extra strong coffee.

Makes for a strong foundation to fend off attack mice against this Administration. And you?

[Redbob]

Perhaps the public is now learning why White was fired in the first place: lack of judgement.

And now he's making pronouncements like this in hopes that people won't forget his name. Probably angling for a job with CNN.

[Eagle Eye]

"There you go again."

Nothing wrong with supporting the President and his administration, but not at the expense of objectivity and truth. You are no different that the clinton koolaid drinkers.

Has it ever entered into you mind that things may not be what they seem or what you hope them to be?

[Grampa Dave]

BOL.

Now you are sounding like Baghdad Bob!

[Eagle Eye]

Yeah, you are right, anyone that doesn't get in lockstep with you is an anti-Bush propgandist.

You probably know a whole lot more about things in the mideast than the rest of us because you spend so much time watching tv news. And posting to FR.

[Grampa Dave]

It is real tough be a third party loser/whine these days!

Who is pulling your cords/strings, Pat or Harry?

[Eagle Eye]

I'm a registered Republican. Just not a bootlicker.

I think Bush has some some good things, but in this or any past administartion, what you see isn't always what you are getting. YOu've gotten so caught up in cheerleading that you've lost any objectivity you might have once had to the point of not even recognizing yourself as a strict partisan. Oh well, time for me to go eat some supper.

[Grampa Dave]

Not a Bootlicker is a code for I voted for Pat and the Perot Rat.

Did you vote for GW in the 2000 election?

Who do you plan to vote for in 2004?

[Protagoras]

Makes for a strong foundation to fend off attack mice against this Administration. And you?

I'm not interested in using this thread for off topic questions. The answer would be just as irrelevant to the thread as the question the other poster asked.

Message me if you want to know the answer to the off topic question.

[Protagoras]

How does the shoe polish taste?

[Squantos]

LOL........Stay Safe !!

[Protagoras]

So any criticism is an electronic lynching? No questions can be asked? No one is allowed to hold anyone's feet to the fire?

You are too old to be a coward.

[Protagoras]

Cat have your tongue?

[Dark Wing]

FYI