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Battle of Midway, 4-7 June 1942
http://www.history.navy.mil/index.html ^ | Unknown | DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY -- NAVAL HISTORICAL CENTER

Posted on 06/03/2003 9:57:13 PM PDT by eeman

The Battle of Midway, fought over and near the tiny U.S. mid-Pacific base at Midway atoll, represents the strategic high water mark of Japan's Pacific Ocean war. Prior to this action, Japan possessed general naval superiority over the United States and could usually choose where and when to attack. After Midway, the two opposing fleets were essentially equals, and the United States soon took the offensive.

Yamamoto's intended surprise was thwarted by superior American communications intelligence, which deduced his scheme well before battle was joined. This allowed Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, the U.S. Pacific Fleet commander, to establish an ambush by having his carriers ready and waiting for the Japanese. On 4 June 1942, in the second of the Pacific War's great carrier battles, the trap was sprung. The perserverance, sacrifice and skill of U.S. Navy aviators, plus a great deal of good luck on the American side, cost Japan four irreplaceable fleet carriers, while only one of the three U.S. carriers present was lost. The base at Midway, though damaged by Japanese air attack, remained operational and later became a vital component in the American trans-Pacific offensive.

(Excerpt) Read more at history.navy.mil ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Japan
KEYWORDS: militaryhistory; usmilitaryhistory; worldwartwo; wwii
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1 posted on 06/03/2003 9:57:14 PM PDT by eeman
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To: eeman
Anniversary bump.
2 posted on 06/03/2003 10:02:24 PM PDT by SkyPilot ("Don't believe everything you read in the newspapers." ----- Jayson Blair)
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To: eeman
From ...http://www.centurytel.net/midway/midway.html.... Great Midway site

This remarkable photo shows all fifteen of Torpedo Eight's TBDs as they depart for their attack on Kido Butai on 4 June 1942. To my knowledge, this photo has never before been published.


3 posted on 06/03/2003 10:04:20 PM PDT by tophat9000
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To: eeman
Great post. Admiral Nimitz's brilliant and daring gamble. Just saw the movie with Charleton Heston and Henry Fonda and Robert Mitchum(Halsey) over Memorial Day.
4 posted on 06/03/2003 10:09:56 PM PDT by microgood (They will all die......most of them.)
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To: tophat9000
Thanks for that site.
5 posted on 06/03/2003 10:10:54 PM PDT by microgood (They will all die......most of them.)
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To: sphinx; Toirdhealbheach Beucail; curmudgeonII; roderick; Notforprophet; river rat; csvset; ...
Battle of Midway anniversary ping!!

If you want on or off the Western Civlization Military History ping list, let me know.
6 posted on 06/03/2003 10:12:33 PM PDT by Sparta (Tagline removed by moderator)
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To: tophat9000
Douglas TBD-1 Devastator
Type:           Torpedo bomber
Crew:           2, Pilot and observer/rear gunner
Armament:       one .30 cal machine gun firing forward,
                one .30 cal machine gun in rear cockpit,
                one torpedo, or one 1000 lb. bomb

Specifications:
        Length:         35' 0" (10.67 m)
        Height:         15' 1" (4.60 m)
        Wingspan:       50' 0" (15.24 m)
        Wing area:      422 sq. ft (39.2 sq. m)
        Empty Weight:   5600 lbs (2539 kg)
        Gross Weight:   10194 lbs (4623 kg)

Propulsion:
        No. of Engines: 1
        Powerplant:     Pratt & Whitney R-1830-64
        Horsepower:     900 hp

Performance:
        Range:          716 miles (1152 km)
        Cruise Speed:   128 mph (206 km/hr)
        Max Speed:      206 mph (331 km/hr)
        Climb:          720 ft/min (219.45 m/min)
        Ceiling:        19500 ft (5943.3 m)

7 posted on 06/03/2003 10:14:53 PM PDT by Sparta (Tagline removed by moderator)
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To: Sparta
can you put me on your ping list? I generally don't post on them but I look at them. I've been posting a lot lately because I have been on vacation--taking time off for our new baby boy who is one week old today
8 posted on 06/03/2003 10:24:00 PM PDT by eeman
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To: eeman

can you put me on your ping list?

No problem.

I've been posting a lot lately because I have been on vacation--taking time off for our new baby boy who is one week old today

Congratulations on the new baby boy.

9 posted on 06/03/2003 10:26:18 PM PDT by Sparta (Tagline removed by moderator)
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To: tophat9000
I found that website, I was going to post a picture--that same one actually, or a picture of the Hiryu after it was hit by US dive bombers

Battle Damage to Hiryu

However, I could not put the picture in the response, could you tell me how that is done?

10 posted on 06/03/2003 10:30:33 PM PDT by eeman
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To: Sparta
Thank you. My wife, bless her heart, is very liberal whereas I am the opposite. It will be interesting to see how he turns out along the way. Whatever he turns out to be, he is just sooo intoxicating and I just hold him forever (or until he needs to be fed).
11 posted on 06/03/2003 10:35:56 PM PDT by eeman
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To: Sparta

12 posted on 06/03/2003 10:35:59 PM PDT by Light Speed
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To: microgood
I saw the movie on AMC I think a few months ago. I just read Gordon Prange's book Miracle at Midway" this past week. The book was okay-to-good. It certainly was not as good as the hype around it when it was originally published way back when. For one thing, a few maps or diagrams would have been nice.

In contrast to the movie "Midway," Prange asserts that the Japanese planning for the attack was well before Mitchell's raid on Tokyo. You get the sense from that movie that the B-25 raid inspired Yamamato to attack Midway

13 posted on 06/03/2003 10:46:48 PM PDT by eeman
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To: eeman
It is kind of ironic that the USS Midway(CV41) was stationed in Japan at SRF Yokosuka for many years after the war (not sure when it began being based there but it was commisioned in 1945). They finally replaced it with various Forrestal class carriers in the late 80s or early nineties under protest from the Japanese (They totally resist Nuclear carriers).
14 posted on 06/03/2003 10:48:32 PM PDT by microgood (They will all die......most of them.)
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To: eeman
In contrast to the movie "Midway," Prange asserts that the Japanese planning for the attack was well before Mitchell's raid on Tokyo. You get the sense from that movie that the B-25 raid inspired Yamamato to attack Midway

I did not notice that. Thanks for that insight. I was so focused on the spotter planes and who knew what and when they knew in that movie. I was not thinking of their motives at the time I saw the movie.

My assessment has always been that the Japanese did not know where our carriers were when they attacked Pearl, and did not know where they were when they attacked Midway. Big mistake when you have someone as daring as Nimitz around.
15 posted on 06/03/2003 10:58:13 PM PDT by microgood (They will all die......most of them.)
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To: microgood
That movie is very factually correct, which is something that seems to be no longer important (U571, Saving Private Ryan, Peal Harbor). However it was very hard to follow. To be fair, however, it is hard to keep straight who did what and when. Basically all I can remember is that the torpedo planes were all wiped out and by luck the dive bombers came at the right time
16 posted on 06/03/2003 11:03:57 PM PDT by eeman
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To: eeman
Basically all I can remember is that the torpedo planes were all wiped out and by luck the dive bombers came at the right time

Having just seen it, they spent a lot of time covering the Japanese trying to decide whether to arm their planes with bombs or torpedoes after the first strike on Midway. Some advisors were proposing a second assault on Midway Island and others were cautious about finding American carriers. They did find the Yorktown(I think) by plane(they followed our planes back to it) and pummeled it, but we had found them and they never actually found our other two carriers(according to the movie).
17 posted on 06/03/2003 11:15:53 PM PDT by microgood (They will all die......most of them.)
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To: microgood
I have to finish my thought that I started in my last post before I was interrupted by having to do a diaper change and burping (see my posts 8 and 11 on this thread).

What fascinates me about Midway is that the first three of four Japanese carriers were all hit in five minutes. The whole balance of the Pacific war shifted in five minutes.

18 posted on 06/03/2003 11:19:26 PM PDT by eeman
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To: microgood
Yes Nagumo screwed up by not launching all of his planes the moment they found the Yorktown. Had the Japanese just stopped re-arming the planes and launched them at the Yorktown, there would have much less secondary explosions (from the on-deck and in-hangar planes with their bombs and fuel) which doomed the carriers.
19 posted on 06/03/2003 11:23:19 PM PDT by eeman
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To: eeman
If you see the movie "Midway" listed as 2 hours ( As TBS airs it ) , avoid it. The Coral Sea battle is cut out completely, making a conspicious hole in the film's continuity and the word "Japs" is censored every time they use it.
20 posted on 06/03/2003 11:28:09 PM PDT by Hillarys Gate Cult ("Read Hillary's hips. I never had sex with that woman.")
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To: microgood
I was on a FR thread about some of these same topics with a very knowledgeable gentleman whom I presume was in the Navy. It was very interesting thread, full of information, check it out.

No small task getting Kitty Hawk into dry dock

21 posted on 06/03/2003 11:29:48 PM PDT by eeman
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To: Hillarys Gate Cult
I must have seen the edited version of the movie, because there was nothing about the Battle of the Coral Sea in what I saw
22 posted on 06/03/2003 11:32:25 PM PDT by eeman
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To: Light Speed
That is a very famous picture and one of the clearest I've seen. Look at the wreckage atop the big gun at the rear. It is of an American dive bomber. You can pretty clearly see a piece of the wing resting against the base of the gun.
23 posted on 06/03/2003 11:32:33 PM PDT by StupidQuestions
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To: eeman
there would have much less secondary explosions

Had no idea that was a factor.

Great knowledge base report. I also saw a movie that explained the Japanese carriers had poor Fire/Control capabilities in comparison to US carriers. Not that it would have made a difference based on the devastating nature of our attack, but was a factor in the ensuing carnage.
24 posted on 06/04/2003 12:04:31 AM PDT by microgood (They will all die......most of them.)
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To: eeman
What fascinates me about Midway is that the first three of four Japanese carriers were all hit in five minutes. The whole balance of the Pacific war shifted in five minutes.

Incredible. That is what happens when a guy like Nimitz decides to destroy the Japanese Navy and gets his wish. It was such a daring and amazing event that it is hard to understand at the human level.
25 posted on 06/04/2003 12:16:52 AM PDT by microgood (They will all die......most of them.)
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To: Sparta
What would have happened had the Japanese carriers not have been found, or if the battle of Midway had not occurred?

How do you imagine the rest of the pacific theater would have been affected? How do you imagine the war effort in total would have been affected?

26 posted on 06/04/2003 3:24:40 AM PDT by William McKinley (Our differences are politics. Our agreements are principles.)
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To: eeman; Sparta; Joy Angela; conservogirl; Ragtime Cowgirl; amom
June 10, 1942 =

ALOHA RONNIE's Birthday


June 4-7, 1942 =

ALOHA RONNIE's Mother wonders who's coming first...


Little ALOHA RONNIE...

or the JAPANESE..!!!
27 posted on 06/04/2003 3:28:53 AM PDT by ALOHA RONNIE (Vet-Battle of IA DRANG-1965 www.LZXRAY.com)
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To: eeman
"Basically all I can remember is that the torpedo planes were all wiped out and by luck the dive bombers came at the right time"

Torpedo Eight and the dive bombers were supposed to have fighter cover when they went in. As happens in battle the fighters and dive bombers were late. Torpedo Eight went in anyway and lost every plane and every crew but one who ditched (later rescued). The dive bombers of one flight wnet in first to draw away the Japanese fighters so that the rest could break through.

We lost a lot of very brave people that day who did what had to be done.

Regards,

28 posted on 06/04/2003 4:00:33 AM PDT by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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To: eeman; Sparta
Thanks for the ping Sparta.

Thanks for the thread eeman.

"Miracle at Midway" Bump

29 posted on 06/04/2003 5:51:04 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Experience varies directly with equipment ruined.)
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To: Jimmy Valentine
The surviving Torpedo Eight crewman was George Gay. I understand that when he passed away about five years ago, per his instructions, his remains were scattered at the location where he was downed--to forever be with the rest of the lost crews.

These were great, brave men. Very few of them left today.
30 posted on 06/04/2003 6:18:16 AM PDT by PeteyBoy (The best part of waking up--is waking up.)
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To: eeman

31 posted on 06/04/2003 6:41:23 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Experience varies directly with equipment ruined.)
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To: eeman
Congrats on the new baby.
32 posted on 06/04/2003 6:42:34 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Experience varies directly with equipment ruined.)
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To: eeman
The original version of the movie had the Coral Sea battle removed, it was put back in fo a "Directors Cut" of the film.
33 posted on 06/04/2003 6:46:53 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Experience varies directly with equipment ruined.)
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To: eeman
IF you get a chance read "Incredible Victory" very goo d book about Midway.
34 posted on 06/04/2003 6:49:50 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Experience varies directly with equipment ruined.)
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To: eeman
Good to remember. A fine example of "Victory Disease" and a splendid example of fine Intel Work!

And never forget the courage of all of the Naval Aviators, especially those of Torpedo Squadron 8 of the USS Hornet! One survivor, Ensign Gay...no hits...but they brought the Jap fighters and AA guns down to sea level, leaving the skies open for the dive bombers.

35 posted on 06/04/2003 6:53:14 AM PDT by Redleg Duke (Stir the pot...don't let anything settle to the bottom where the lawyers can feed off of it!)
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To: SAMWolf
Another good book termed by Stephen Ambrose as "Superb...the best book on the greatest sea battle ever fought." is Return to Midway by Robert D. Ballard and Rick Archbold. Just six months after Pearl Harbor, the US was able to stop the Japanese naval offensive in the Pacific for the remainder of the war. Breaking the Japanese Naval code, JN 25, was a key to the victory. The gallant but tragic heroism of Torpedo Squadron Eight will live forever in the miliary annals of this country.
36 posted on 06/04/2003 7:09:48 AM PDT by kabar
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To: eeman
Here's your pic.........just do what I do....tape it to your screen and press enter.


37 posted on 06/04/2003 7:18:58 AM PDT by Focault's Pendulum
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To: SAMWolf
As luck would have it, John Ford, the famous director, was serving as a Navy Commander at the time of the battle and was located on Sand Island, which suffered major attacks by the Japanese against the Midway islands. He filmed the attacks until one blast rendered him unconscious. He made a film from his experiences, Battle of Midway, which won the 1942 Academy Award for the best documentary. It was the first film made on a real battlefield with only real combatants before the lens. It is no wonder Ford was such a patriot and made so many great films about the spirit of America.
38 posted on 06/04/2003 7:19:30 AM PDT by kabar
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To: eeman
"Man Proposes, God Disposes"

God was clearly on our side

"In God we trust"
39 posted on 06/04/2003 7:22:31 AM PDT by The Pheonix
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To: kabar

Click the picture to read about Lieutenant Commander John C. Waldron and Torpedo 8 at Midway

40 posted on 06/04/2003 7:28:41 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Experience varies directly with equipment ruined.)
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To: SAMWolf
Thanks for the info regarding the book, "Incredible Victory" and for your congrats. I will probably need to wait until my next vacation.

Changing the topic but staying within the subject of military history, you should read, "Siezing the Enigma: The race to break the U-Boat codes." The book is completely non fiction but reads like a well done Clancy thriller (ie his old stuff). I could not put it down

41 posted on 06/04/2003 7:33:17 AM PDT by eeman
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To: eeman
Remembering Torpedo Squadron 8


June 4, 1942: Torpedo Squadron 8, off the USS HORNET, attacked the Japanese carriers off Midway. Flying old, slow aircraft armed with defective torpedoes and lacking fighter cover, they were all shot down without inflicting any damage on the enemy. But by attracting the attention of the Japanese combat air patrol, their sacrifice made possible the success of the American dive bombers that arrived overhead minutes later, to devastate the Japanese carriers Akagi, Kaga, and Soryu, bringing victory at Midway

Lt. Commander John C. Waldron KIA
Lt. Raymond A. Moore KIA
Lt. James C. Owens KIA
Lt.(jg) George M. Campbell KIA
Lt.(jg) John P. Gray KIA
Lt.(jg) Jeff D. Woodson KIA
Ens. William W. Abercrombie KIA
Ens. William W. Creamer KIA
Ens. Harold J. Ellison KIA
Ens. William R. Evans KIA
Ens. George H. Gay WIA
Ens. Henry R. Kenyon KIA
Ens. Ulvert M. Moore KIA
Ens. Grant W. Teats KIA
Robert B. Miles, Aviation Pilot 1c KIA
Horace F. Dobbs, Chief Radioman KIA
Amelio Maffei, Radioman 1 KIA
Tom H. Pettry, Radioman 1 KIA
Otway D. Creasy, Jr. Radioman 2 KIA
Ross H. Bibb, Jr., Radioman 2 KIA
Darwin L. Clark, Radioman 2 KIA
Ronald J. Fisher, Radioman 2 KIA
Hollis Martin, Radioman 2 KIA
Bernerd P. Phelps Radioman 2 KIA
Aswell L. Picou, Seaman 2 KIA
Francis S. Polston, Seaman 2 KIA
Max A. Calkins, Radioman 3 KIA
George A. Field, Radioman 3 KIA
Robert K. Huntington, Radioman 3 KIA
William F. Sawhill, Radioman 3 KIA


42 posted on 06/04/2003 7:35:30 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Experience varies directly with equipment ruined.)
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To: eeman
Code breaking during the war is a subject all on it's own.

I love Clancy's "Ryan" series.
43 posted on 06/04/2003 7:36:51 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Experience varies directly with equipment ruined.)
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To: Redleg Duke
Certainly the actions of Waldron and VT-8 were horrbily brave. However, Gordon Prange in "Miracle at Midway" makes the point that the post-battle publicity that they received overshadowed the gallantry and sacrifice of others who were equally as noble. For instance, 10 out of 14 torpedo planes of VT-6, under the command of Lt. Commander Eugene Lindsey were shot down in their torpedo attack without air cover, including Lindsey. He conjectures the story of the sole survivor of VT-8, Lt. Gay and the fact he was charismatic is why VT-8 was singled out more so than other torpedo squadrons. I just say prayers for all of them in my remembrance.

As for victory disease by the Japanese, one anecdote I read in the Miracle at Midway is that one of the communications of Japanese code they broke were some orders posting a soldier/soldiers to Midway to start in August of 1942. The orders were, of course, broadcasted before the battle

44 posted on 06/04/2003 8:12:29 AM PDT by eeman
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To: eeman
Oops,excuse me, Ensign Gay, not Lt. Gay
45 posted on 06/04/2003 8:16:09 AM PDT by eeman
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To: SAMWolf
Thanks. Too often we view these battles from a larger perspective, e.g., codes broken, ship movements, etc., but it still boils down to the courage and skill of the individual combatants and their ability to accomplish their mission.
46 posted on 06/04/2003 8:17:36 AM PDT by kabar
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To: eeman; Poohbah
The thing that won Midway was Wade McCLuskey's refusal to quit looking. He found that destroyer, and followed it to the Kido Butai. Enterprise's SBDs took out two carriers, and then they split Hiryu with the Yorktown SBDs later on June 4.

I wonder if Yorktown would have survived Midway had Fletcher not been in charge of TF 17. Fletcher was NOT exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer and should have been relieved after his poor performance during the Wake Relief Expedition.
47 posted on 06/04/2003 8:26:45 AM PDT by hchutch ("If you donít win, you donít get to put your principles into practice." David Horowitz)
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To: hchutch
Running low on fuel and decided to keep looking knowing there was the possibilty of not mnaking it back to the carriers. Amazing men.
48 posted on 06/04/2003 8:38:13 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Experience varies directly with equipment ruined.)
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To: Hillarys Gate Cult
"Japs" is censored

We could do everything distructive imagionable to the enemy, but we couldn't call them "Japs." Please. In all honesty we called more censorable names than "Japs".

49 posted on 06/04/2003 8:42:31 AM PDT by oyez (Is this a great country or what?)
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To: eeman
Point well taken. The VT-8 Saga got a boost from Winston Churchill's reaction to it also. Also, VT-8 being wipped out except for one man is stuff of legends...the other squadrons actually had survivors.

That attack is a classic example of the "fog of war".

50 posted on 06/04/2003 8:43:24 AM PDT by Redleg Duke (Stir the pot...don't let anything settle to the bottom where the lawyers can feed off of it!)
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