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What happened in Katanga?
4 June 2003 | Central_Floridian

Posted on 06/04/2003 2:39:07 PM PDT by Central_Floridian

I have read in "Noned dare call it treason" by John A. Stormer and on the internet that the UN violently established a communist regime in the Congo in 1962-1963. If anyone knows of proof for or against this and would share their knowledge with me I would be grateful.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Unclassified
KEYWORDS: 1962; africa; belgiancongo; congo; katanga; katangaprovince; kisangani; luddowitte; lumumba; patricelumumba; stanleyville; un; unitednations; witte

1 posted on 06/04/2003 2:39:08 PM PDT by Central_Floridian
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To: Central_Floridian
Noned=None. Sorry
2 posted on 06/04/2003 2:40:04 PM PDT by Central_Floridian
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To: Central_Floridian
Lots of info on Katanga if you do a Google search.
3 posted on 06/04/2003 2:46:16 PM PDT by Lucy Lake
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To: Central_Floridian
See if you can find the book "A Fearful Master" by G Edward Griffin. He documents it rather well.
4 posted on 06/04/2003 2:46:28 PM PDT by El Sordo
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To: Central_Floridian
I read that book in the early 60's and loaned it or lost it. I can't remember too much now, but I have used it in my tag line for the past few months. The inside cover gave the source for the title and I always thought it was someone like Ben Franklin, but now I saw other sources, so I'm not sure. Heck, maybe my tag line is not exact either.
5 posted on 06/04/2003 2:48:11 PM PDT by Mark (Treason doth never prosper, for if it prosper, NONE DARE CALL IT TREASON.)
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To: Central_Floridian
Cehck out "Leopold's Ghost" for deeper background.
6 posted on 06/04/2003 2:50:48 PM PDT by fourdeuce82d
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To: Mark
"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." -- George Washington

7 posted on 06/04/2003 2:55:57 PM PDT by El Sordo
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To: Mark
I believe the correct quote is as follows:

Treason doth never prosper
What's the reason?
For if it prosper
None dare call it treason
8 posted on 06/04/2003 2:57:14 PM PDT by catpuppy
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To: Mark
Your quote is from Ovid, the ancient Greek philosopher.
9 posted on 06/04/2003 3:04:01 PM PDT by keithtoo (Luvya Dubya)
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To: Central_Floridian
Run your google search on Congo and add Patrice Lumumba. He was installed as the leader of the country and was a committed Communist. He died in a plane crash and was memorialized in Moscow by naming the "university" where the Communists trained third world activists in Communist techniques "Patrice Lumumba University."

Many people thought the CIA was responsible for the plane crash. We supported a break-away province of Katanga (where most of the valuable minerals were)during their civil war.
10 posted on 06/04/2003 3:47:53 PM PDT by wildbill
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To: Central_Floridian
The book you mention is a clever mixture of truth and untruth,and I would read it with a certain amount of caution;but the author is right: The UN did back the Soviet-sponsored Patrice Lumumba by force of arms.

The USA and Britain resisted this ploy : not openly, but more indirectly - "looking the other way" when the breakaway Province of Katanga ( which, yes, had the mineral wealth the Soviets were seeking ) hired mercenaries : recruited from the ranks of US Special Forces, and British SAS, who were " on leave of absence ".
11 posted on 06/04/2003 4:12:57 PM PDT by genefromjersey (I may SEEM a bit crotchety, but ... I'm REALLY a mean old coot !)
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To: wildbill
>>>He was installed as the leader of the country and was a committed Communist. He died in a plane crash<<<

Actually, Patrice Lumumba was not "installed". He was democratically elected by the people of the Congo in the first and only democratic election in their nation's history.

And he did not die in a plane crash. He was tortured and disfigured, and then executed by a firing squad carried out by Belgian soldiers. That information is available in a book published 5 years ago by a Belgian author, Luddo Witte.

The person who died in the plane crash was former UN Secretary General, Dag Hammersjkold, a Swedish diplomat. It has long been rumoured that the CIA conspired in the murders of both Lumumba and Hammersjkold.
12 posted on 06/04/2003 4:23:15 PM PDT by AveMaria
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To: genefromjersey; Travis McGee; Squantos; harpseal; Clive
Mike Hoare's 5 Commando, The Wild Bunch if ever there was one.
13 posted on 06/04/2003 4:29:20 PM PDT by TEXASPROUD
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To: Central_Floridian
CIA - The World Factbook 2002 -- Congo, Republic of the
... Colombia Comoros Congo, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Republic of the Cook Islands ... Congo, Republic of the ...
Description: Features map and brief descriptions of geography, economy, government, and people.
more hits from: http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cf.html  - 94 KB

An MBendi Profile: Congo - Overview
... Congo - Overview General ... Africa Overview Congo is an independent republic with a democratic ... between Gabon and Democratic Republic of Congo (formerly Zaire) and forms part of the ...
Description: An MBendi Profile: Congo - Overview
more hits from: http://www.mbendi.co.za/land/af/co/p0005.htm  - 35 KB

Congo: A Continuing Human Rights Disaster (Human Rights Watch, 2001)
... displaced by ethnic conflict in Eastern Congo © Human Rights Watch, Suliman ... Russia (Chechnya) and Democratic Republic of Congo March 29, 2001, Human Rights Watch Oral ... Backgrounder on the Democratic Republic of the Congo January 31, 2001 Civil Society Under ...
Description: Congo: Focus on Human Rights - Human Rights Watch Publications, reports and other documents
more hits from: http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/congo/  - 15 KB

Heart of Darkness: the Tragedy of the Congo, 1960-67
Heart of Darkness: the Tragedy of the Congo, 1960-67 When Laurent Kabila and his vengeful ... would be the "Democratic Republic of Congo." The Western press either ignored this ... madness that was the Democratic Republic of Congo during the period 1960-1997 sprang in large ...
http://www.worldatwar.net/chandelle/v2/v2n3/congo.html  - 56 KB

Rhodesia
... The Un-American United Nations In the 1960's the UN invaded Katanga (in the Belgium Congo) and foiled that provinces quest for independence from communist murderer and torturer Patrice Lamumba and ...
Description: news and history from Zimbabwe
http://www.eaglesup.com/rhodesia.html  - 33 KB

14 posted on 06/04/2003 4:29:56 PM PDT by backhoe (Just an old keyboard cowboy, ridin' the trackball into the sunset...)
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To: TEXASPROUD
To be sure ! The very one !
15 posted on 06/04/2003 4:40:15 PM PDT by genefromjersey (I may SEEM a bit crotchety, but ... I'm REALLY a mean old coot !)
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To: grizzfan
I have read a considerable amount on the net, but I was looking for some solid evidence one way or the other, and books tend to be more reliable than web sources.
16 posted on 06/04/2003 5:17:00 PM PDT by Central_Floridian
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To: El Sordo
I will look for that book. Thanks
17 posted on 06/04/2003 5:17:36 PM PDT by Central_Floridian
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To: wildbill
Really now? I read in several places that UN forces used USAF airplanes.
18 posted on 06/04/2003 5:19:15 PM PDT by Central_Floridian
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To: Central_Floridian
I have an autographed copy of None Dare Call It Treason and met Stormer years ago in Clear Lake, Texas.
19 posted on 06/04/2003 5:20:10 PM PDT by blam
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To: AveMaria
Could you post a link to some documentation of those charges? That's very interesting.
20 posted on 06/04/2003 5:21:33 PM PDT by Central_Floridian
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To: genefromjersey
Could you point out a few inaccuracies (in None dare call it treason) or post a link to a page that does so? The truth is important.
21 posted on 06/04/2003 5:23:29 PM PDT by Central_Floridian
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To: backhoe
Thanks for those links. I will read them later.
22 posted on 06/04/2003 5:24:59 PM PDT by Central_Floridian
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To: Central_Floridian
Thanks for looking- be sure to run a web search for more info; those were just a few grabbed at random. I was a teenager when some of that stuff happened, I mostly remember it was a bloody horror with the un's heavy hand all over it.
23 posted on 06/04/2003 5:28:18 PM PDT by backhoe (Has that Clinton "legacy" made you feel safer- yet?)
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To: AveMaria
Actually, Patrice Lumumba was not "installed". He was democratically elected by the people of the Congo in the first and only democratic election in their nation's history.

I grew up in Congo. There has never been a "democratic election" by recognizable standards EVER in Congo/Zaire

And he did not die in a plane crash. He was tortured and disfigured, and then executed by a firing squad carried out by Belgian soldiers. That information is available in a book published 5 years ago by a Belgian author, Luddo Witte.

Somehow I doubt that Mssr. Witte also told of the countless people "sacrificed" at the foot of the Lumumba statue by his followers in 1964 in the town of Kisangani (Stanleyville). There were a number of Americans as well - hacked up by machete or mowed down by machine guns. They didn't even bother to clean up the blood afterward - they simply took the bodies and dumped them in the Congo River.
24 posted on 06/04/2003 5:36:34 PM PDT by safisoft
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To: TEXASPROUD
Mike Hoare's 5 Commando, The Wild Bunch if ever there was one.

I grew up in Congo. One of my childhood friends' heroes was Mike Hoare. Mike Hoare rescued a compound of foreigners near Kisangani, when Lumumba supporters opened fire on unarmed children and women. They rescued them and their servants etc. My friend was one of the rescued ones. My older brother had a friend who was shot (age 10) and his brother maimed by the brave Lumumba soldiers who machine gunned the kids grouped in a room.
25 posted on 06/04/2003 5:40:59 PM PDT by safisoft
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To: El Sordo; Central_Floridian
FYI re: The Fearful Master ..

Entire book online
The Fearful Master: A Second Look at the United Nations
- G. Edward Griffin - 1964

G. Edward Griffin's The Fearful Master: A Second Look at the United Nations burst on the scene in 1964. It brought to a hugely propagandized populace vitally needed truths about the foundation and deeds of the organization most had been persuaded to accept and even applaud. Even before finishing the book, readers developed their own well-founded revulsion toward the world body. They realized for the first time the threat to freedom and national independence posed by this organization. This newly found awareness given with such clarity and unquestionable accuracy by Mr. Griffin's work, continues to grow, as does the demand that the United States withdraw completely from the United Nations and all of its subsidiary institution.

26 posted on 06/04/2003 6:02:34 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi .. Support FRee Republic)
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To: Central_Floridian
Sorry, hoss ! It's been - gee ! - at least 40 years since I heaved out my copy.

It was given to me by some glittery-eyed,perpetually angry gentleman a few months before JFK was asassinated (I never get that word right ! ), and I read it cover-to-cover, and back again; compared it to the actual history I remembered,and then deep-sixed it.
27 posted on 06/05/2003 5:26:21 AM PDT by genefromjersey (I may SEEM a bit crotchety, but ... I'm REALLY a mean old coot !)
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To: AveMaria
mea culpa! You're right--on all counts--my memory failed me once again. It was Hammarshkold who died in the plane crash.
28 posted on 06/05/2003 10:32:41 AM PDT by wildbill
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To: Central_Floridian
>>>Could you post a link to some documentation of those charges? That's very interesting.<<<

I apologize for the week long delay in replying to your post, because I have not visited the free republic site in that time. You may want to read this interesting story from last year in the Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A35560-2002Jul20
29 posted on 06/12/2003 7:21:06 PM PDT by AveMaria
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To: Central_Floridian

Great Book! there is now an updated version and another one on Education, a must read.


30 posted on 05/12/2005 1:57:29 PM PDT by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: Central_Floridian

Remember Katanga!


31 posted on 01/14/2012 7:54:41 PM PST by Coleus (John 3:16, John 6:53–58,)
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