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Treasure of Nimrud Is Found In Iraq, and It's Spectacular
WALL STREET JOURNAL ^ | Friday, June 6, 2003 | DAVID LUHNOW

Posted on 06/06/2003 9:38:04 AM PDT by presidio9

Edited on 04/22/2004 11:49:05 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

The treasure of Nimrud survived 2,800 years buried near a dusty town in northern Iraq. It then spent 12 years tucked away in a vault. Until Thursday, it was uncertain whether it had survived Saddam Hussein's son, a U.S. missile strike, looters, a flood and a grenade attack. But it has been found intact in the dark, damp basement of a bombed out central bank building.


(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: archaeology; artifacts; found; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; iraq; northernfront; treasureofnimrud; vault
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1 posted on 06/06/2003 9:38:04 AM PDT by presidio9
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To: presidio9
You mean it wasn't looted?
2 posted on 06/06/2003 9:41:15 AM PDT by My2Cents ("Well....there you go again.")
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To: presidio9
What a fascinating story.
3 posted on 06/06/2003 9:44:33 AM PDT by Trust but Verify
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To: My2Cents
You mean it wasn't looted?

I'll thank you to NOT make fun of the greatest cultural atrocity in the HISTORY of mankind.

4 posted on 06/06/2003 9:45:25 AM PDT by presidio9 (Run Al, Run!!!)
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To: presidio9
"One man was killed when he fired his rocket-propelled grenade at the vault while standing less than 10 feet away."

What can you say?....

NeverGore
5 posted on 06/06/2003 9:46:19 AM PDT by nevergore (Those wacky aliens...)
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To: presidio9
This is wonderful. Now that Iraq will become a democratic, decent country, they could build up a great tourist industry.

I am sure a lot of people, myself included would want to visit their many historic sites and treasures.
6 posted on 06/06/2003 9:49:38 AM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: nevergore
"One man was killed when he fired his rocket-propelled grenade at the vault while standing less than 10 feet away." What can you say?....

Simple natural selection: the weak and stupid die!

7 posted on 06/06/2003 9:50:58 AM PDT by bullseye1911 (True peace comes only when one side loses!)
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To: presidio9
I'll thank you to NOT make fun of the greatest cultural atrocity in the HISTORY of mankind.
Sorry, but that distinction goes to the burning of the library at Alexandria.
8 posted on 06/06/2003 9:54:32 AM PDT by eastsider
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To: eastsider
Sorry, but Ceasar was a Democrat, so that's just not possible.
9 posted on 06/06/2003 9:56:39 AM PDT by presidio9 (Run Al, Run!!!)
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To: presidio9
Et tu, presidio?
10 posted on 06/06/2003 9:58:07 AM PDT by eastsider
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To: presidio9
While initial reports talked of some 170,000 pieces stolen, it is now clear that perhaps only a few thousand artifacts were taken, experts say.

Heck, they didn't have a "few thousand" on display! That is, after all, rather a large number of artifacts as a quick trip to any local art museum will reveal.

Nevertheless, I can feel real archaeologists cringing at this article. Gold is known as the "G-word" in the field, and for good reason - recent experience shows that it attracts looters who despoil artifacts of more historical value in trying to steal it.

This isn't to minimize the value of the stuff in the crates, but while it may be more pleasing to view a golden crown instead of a clay tablet written in cuneiform, it is the latter that is of more historical value. Once found and catalogued, all of these objects become objects of art, not necessarily of scholarship.

Hmm...a Marine Colonel who's a homicide prosecutor and has a Master's in classical antiquities...that reminds me...I haven't heard the left bleating about illiterate military robots lately...

11 posted on 06/06/2003 10:01:19 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: presidio9
"They're real, and they're SPECTACULAR!"

(Teri Hatcher on Seinfeld.)

12 posted on 06/06/2003 10:04:05 AM PDT by PBRSTREETGANG
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To: Billthedrill
Actually, when the dust and smoke of leftists blathering clears, it will turn out to be a 'few' objects looted, maybe a few dozen. I'm not minimizing the loss either, but it is not a priority of military personel to protect museums, banks, etc. Their job is really very simple: kill people and break things. HUU-AHH!
13 posted on 06/06/2003 10:06:26 AM PDT by AIRFORCE76 ("from my cold dead fingers..")
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To: presidio9
Sorry, but Ceasar was a Democrat, so that's just not possible.

Was that Julius, Caligula, Augustus, Nero? All of them hated the Senate, they proclaimed Emporership, not a democracy.

14 posted on 06/06/2003 10:06:30 AM PDT by Zavien Doombringer (Private 1st Class - 101st Viking Kitty.....Valhalla.....All the Way!)
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To: Zavien Doombringer
Sorry. Liberal?
15 posted on 06/06/2003 10:09:15 AM PDT by presidio9 (Run Al, Run!!!)
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To: presidio9
I'll thank you to NOT make fun of the greatest cultural atrocity in the HISTORY of mankind.

This was more of a cultural atrocity than the Nazi's stealing every single piece of art in Eastern and western Europe? Or the Nazi's trying to kill every member of an actual culture(Jews)? Interesting. Do you have a vested intrest in Iraq that would bias your opinion?

16 posted on 06/06/2003 10:11:31 AM PDT by SengirV
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To: nevergore
"One man was killed when he fired his rocket-propelled grenade at the vault while standing less than 10 feet away."

What can you say?....

Wrong weapon.

17 posted on 06/06/2003 10:12:30 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (A bad day FReepin' beats a good day workin'.)
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To: Dark Wing
ping
18 posted on 06/06/2003 10:12:38 AM PDT by Thud
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To: presidio9
hehehe, yes, liberal. They did what they wanted liberally :)
19 posted on 06/06/2003 10:13:02 AM PDT by Zavien Doombringer (Private 1st Class - 101st Viking Kitty.....Valhalla.....All the Way!)
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To: presidio9
With bemused U.S. soldiers looking on, the man lifted every manhole cover in the area until he found a valve that stopped fresh water from flowing to the building.

Iraq is upgrading its GIS right now. Experts from all over the world and Redlands are in the region with recommendations for new hardware, the appropriate software, and legions of tech support. Data acquisition is expensive, the most expensive part of the system, but necessary, and is underway using remote resource sensing, GPS, and SAR.

20 posted on 06/06/2003 10:14:53 AM PDT by RightWhale (gazing at shadows)
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To: SengirV
No, but I know that this is the case, because the New York Times said it was.
21 posted on 06/06/2003 10:15:21 AM PDT by presidio9 (Run Al, Run!!!)
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To: presidio9
gotcha, I'm a little slow =)

But in my defense, I have never read a single article from 'The Old Grey Whore'

22 posted on 06/06/2003 10:22:44 AM PDT by SengirV
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To: bullseye1911
Simple natural selection: the weak and stupid die!

No, the lack of real capitalism. Otherwise, he would have been exposed to Quake, or Doom, or...

23 posted on 06/06/2003 10:28:48 AM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: presidio9
...when U.S. forces failed to prevent looters from hauling away thousands of artifacts from ancient civilizations that sprang up in the Tigris-Euphrates valley.

Nope, no bias here. Move on...

24 posted on 06/06/2003 10:52:48 AM PDT by bruin66 (Free Martha!)
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To: RadioAstronomer; Physicist; wideminded; Theresa; Torie
ping
25 posted on 06/06/2003 11:04:02 AM PDT by Fifth Business
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To: bruin66
...when U.S. forces failed to prevent looters from hauling away thousands of artifacts from ancient civilizations that sprang up in the Tigris-Euphrates valley.

Nope, no bias here. Move on...

BIG FAT BUMP!

26 posted on 06/06/2003 11:11:37 AM PDT by Pagey (Hillary Rotten is a Smug, Holier - Than - Thou Socialist)
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To: presidio9
"I'll thank you to NOT make fun of the greatest cultural atrocity in the HISTORY of mankind"

- p9

The cultural loss experienced with looting in Iraq is nowhere near the magnitude of the loss associated with the destruction of that ancient library that held many one-of-a-kind scrolls. Sorry but the name escapes me.

Compared to that, the cultural loss in Iraq seems like the cultural damage inflicted when it was proven that Milli-Vanilli were just lip-synchers.

Hmmmm...What was the name of that library and who looted it?

27 posted on 06/06/2003 11:21:07 AM PDT by Triple (All forms of socialism deny individuals the right to the fruits of their labor)
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To: eastsider
"The greatest library of the ancient world, the Library of Alexandria, which had been collecting works since 330 BC, was destroyed by the Muslims in 641 AD. When asked what to do with the library after the capture of Alexandria, Caliph Umar [advisor to and father-in-law of The Prophet Muhammad] replied: "If the books are in accordance with the book of Allah, we may do without them, for the book of Allah more than suffices. If they are not in accordance, then there is no need to preserve them." It took six months to destroy the library, losing forever much of the scholarship of the ancient world. It was the most evil act of vandalism in history. " - Humphery ? (website found through google)

Exactly what I was thinking... The library at Alexandria

28 posted on 06/06/2003 11:29:24 AM PDT by Triple (All forms of socialism deny individuals the right to the fruits of their labor)
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To: presidio9
The University of Pennsylvania has a collection from the Royal Tombs of Ur in ancient Sumer (pre-Assyria), dating back 5,000 years. Fantastic stuff.
29 posted on 06/06/2003 12:05:36 PM PDT by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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To: Tijeras_Slim; mhking; archy
"One man was killed when he fired his rocket-propelled grenade at the vault while standing less than 10 feet away."

Hold muh pita alert!

30 posted on 06/06/2003 12:07:38 PM PDT by Shermy
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To: Triple; eastsider
If the books are in accordance with the book of Allah, we may do without them, for the book of Allah more than suffices. If they are not in accordance, then there is no need to preserve them.

I had heard this story before and it sounds plausible, but a recent book I read about Alexandria claims that the date and cause of the library's destruction are still uncertain.

"The date of the library's destruction has long been a matter of debate. Caesar (100-44 B.C.) has been a suspect, because in his De bello alexandrino he describes how his troops set fire to a warehouse filled with papyrus scrolls near the port; but in fact the place he describes is clearly too far away to have been the Library. Another suspect is the Muslim general Amr ibn al-As, who conquered Alexandria in AD 642; but the stories about him are related by a Christian writer and cannot be trusted. Strabo was in Alexandria in 25 BC, and although he refers only to the Mouseion [research institute next to the library], it is likely that much of the information he supplies about Egypt comes from the Library; equally, if it had already been destroyed, he would surely have mentioned the fact. Once again we should probably think in terms of the violence and destruction that accompanied the wars between Zenobia of Palmyra and the Emperor Aurelian in the second half of the 3rd century. or the disturbances at the end of the centrury during the reign of Diocletian." - Alexandria, Jewel of Egypt - Jean-Yves Empereur

It seems strange that they can't narrow it down more than this. I suppose if the remains of the Library could be found, it might be possible to date the destruction of the physical building.

31 posted on 06/06/2003 12:12:15 PM PDT by wideminded
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To: Shermy; Squantos
"One man was killed when he fired his rocket-propelled grenade at the vault while standing less than 10 feet away." Hold muh pita alert!

Hoist with his own petard, as they say. An *own goal.*

Sounds like an untrained user not real familiar with the effects of either end of an RPG-7. I'm reminded of the story of some North Koreans who captured a US M18 57mm recoilless rifle in the early days of that war, decided to try it [the weapon vents the fearsome blast of it's launch to the rear] and a bunch gathered around to see how it worked....

Figuring he had it turned backwards, the intrepid shooter turned it around for the next shot, and that was the end of that. A variation of the story was used for a scene in the 1985 Arnold Schwarzenegger film Commando. The moral of the story is to be careful about telling your best war stories to aspiring Hollyweood script writers.

-archy-/-

32 posted on 06/06/2003 12:18:52 PM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: archy
I believe the story here is US customs agents.......in Iraq

Stay Safe !

33 posted on 06/06/2003 12:28:25 PM PDT by Squantos (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
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To: wideminded
"Another suspect is the Muslim general Amr ibn al-As, who conquered Alexandria in AD 642; but the stories about him are related by a Christian writer and cannot be trusted." Alexandria, Jewel of Egypt - Jean-Yves Empereur
The French ...
34 posted on 06/06/2003 12:40:13 PM PDT by eastsider
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To: presidio9
a great boost for the museum, which gained the world's attention in the days after the war when U.S. forces failed to prevent looters from hauling away thousands of artifacts from ancient civilizations that sprang up in the Tigris-Euphrates valley.

Hmmmmmmmmm.

Looks like even the Wall Street Journal has succumbed to the mindless political invention of the American "Progressives": that armies are tasked to "prevent looters" in the midst of the shooting phase of a war; any war!

Americans are still dying daily in Iraq.
The war is not yet over dammit!

Can we expect a correction any time soon?

35 posted on 06/06/2003 12:44:23 PM PDT by Publius6961 (Californians are as dumm as a sack of rocks)
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To: eastsider
The French ...

I knew that would be the first comment someone would make.

The fact is this guy is a recognized authority on the history and archaeology of Alexandria. Despite their other faults the French do have over 200 years of credibility in Egyptian archaeology.

36 posted on 06/06/2003 2:31:28 PM PDT by wideminded
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To: presidio9
I hope you are kidding! Nothing in that part of the world is the greatest ANYTHING!

Before Iran fell to islamic pondscum as the Shah died, I walked the same stones as Esther in the ancient capital of Persepolis (phonetic spelling). Got lotsa pictures. After the islamic pondscum took over the country, they destroyed the area, razed the archeological restoration and undid all the work of the historians who were trying to piece it all together.

Iran, Iraq, it's all the same; pondscum! If the museum in Bagdad simply ceased to exist, with all contents, it might be sad but, certainly, no cultural atrocity. Islam is the cultural atrocity (which they prove by their own actions, on a daily basis)!

Stay vigilent, stay armed, and never trust a muslim or a liberal, both terrorists wanting to kill or control you, differing only in weaponry and technique!

37 posted on 06/06/2003 2:50:55 PM PDT by mil-vet
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To: eastsider; Triple
Here's another (English) source that says the same thing:

From: http://www.bede.org.uk/library.htm:

"In the thirteenth century the great Jacobite Christian Bishop Gregory Bar Hebræus (died 1286), called Abû 'l Faraj in Arabic, fleshes the story out and includes the famous epigram about the Koran. Again there is no clue as to where he found the story but it seems to have been one doing the rounds among Christians living under the dominion of the Moslems. Gregory is happy to record plenty of far fetched tales about omens and monstrosities so we must treat this story with the greatest suspicion. As it is not even included in the original version of his history but only in the Arabic version that he translated and abridged himself very late in life, he may not have known the story when he first put pen to parchment. In The Vanished Library, Canfora mentions a Syriac manuscript published in Paris at the end of the nineteenth century by François Nau. It was written by a Christian monk in the ninth century and details the conversation between John and Caliph Omar. After help from email correspondents, I have finally been able to find this elusive document in its French translation and ascertained that it makes no mention of any library and appears to be an example of a theological dialogue between two representative individuals. In other words it is not historical and has no pretensions to be.

The verdict on Omar

The errors in the sources are obvious and the story itself is almost wholly incredible. In the first place, Gregory Bar Hebræus represents the Christian in his story as being one John of Byzantium and that John was certainly dead by the time of the Moslem invasion of Egypt. Also, the prospect of the library talking six months to burn is simply fantastic and just the sort of exaggeration one might expect to find in Arab legends such as the Arabian Nights. However Alfred Butler's famous observation that the books of the library were made of vellum which does not burn is not true. The very late dates of the source material are also suspect as there is no hint of this atrocity in any early literature - even in the Coptic Christian chronicle of John of Nikiou (died after 640AD) who detailed the Arab invasion. Finally, the story comes from the hand of a Christian intellectual who would have been more than happy to show the religion of his rulers in a bad light. Agreeing with Gibbon this time, we can dismiss it as a legend."

38 posted on 06/06/2003 3:07:20 PM PDT by wideminded
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To: eastsider; Triple
Here's a link to an article by Bernard Lewis where he says the same thing.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/3517

39 posted on 06/06/2003 3:20:40 PM PDT by wideminded
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To: presidio9
How very interesting: In what remains a chaotic and essentially lawless country the size of California, barely passified by less than one coalition soldier per square mile on average, the "recovery" of these valuable items was *not made public* for fear that they'd be snatched up by bad folks.

Is it unreasonable to conjecture that the same policy might be advisable in the case of "recovery" of assembled WMDs and their chemical, biological and nuclear components and precursors?

Hm?
40 posted on 06/06/2003 4:07:28 PM PDT by RightOnTheLeftCoast
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To: firebrand; StarFan; Dutchy; stanz; RaceBannon; Cacique; Clemenza; rmlew; NYC GOP Chick; ...
ping!

Please FReepmail me if you want on or off my infrequent ‘general interest’ ping list.

41 posted on 06/06/2003 4:10:21 PM PDT by nutmeg (USA: Land of the Free - Thanks to the Brave)
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To: presidio9
Pacified. Gadzoox.
42 posted on 06/06/2003 4:11:51 PM PDT by RightOnTheLeftCoast
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To: presidio9; Lurking Libertarian
"Nimrud, near the biblical city of Nineveh"

wooooooa!
so the bible was right!

tres cool!

(LL i thought you might find this interesting)
43 posted on 06/06/2003 4:13:39 PM PDT by ALS ("No, I'm NOT a Professor. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!")
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To: BibChr
a "you might be interested in this" bump
44 posted on 06/06/2003 4:17:00 PM PDT by drlevy88
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To: ALS
Thanks for the ping.
45 posted on 06/06/2003 4:17:51 PM PDT by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: drlevy88
Indeed I am! Thanks.

Dan
46 posted on 06/06/2003 5:20:48 PM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: FairOpinion
good news ping
47 posted on 06/06/2003 5:23:21 PM PDT by dennisw
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To: mil-vet
Before Iran fell to islamic pondscum as the Shah died, I walked the same stones as Esther
in the ancient capital of Persepolis (phonetic spelling). Got lotsa pictures.
After the islamic pondscum took over the country, they destroyed the area, razed the
archeological restoration


That certainly is an under (or un-) reported example of The Religion Of Peace at work.

I've heard/seen Perseopolis (sp?) talked about alot on TV/travel shows as well,
never heard about the Islamics mucking it up after the Shah was pushed out.
48 posted on 06/06/2003 5:26:06 PM PDT by VOA
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To: VOA
I heard about the destruction of the restoration project from some folks who left at the very last moment - this is back in the late 70's, of course.

I have no idea as to the extent of their destructive effort - had to do with the fact that it was one of the Shah's projects and was, therefore, tainted by the devil.

Very sad - it was such a thrill to see the original inscriptions and carvings mentioning Xerxes (phonetic spelling, again - it's been a while - LOL) and such. The whole city had been built by Jewish labor - the way the records were translated, it was like they were contractors rather than slave labor - I guess I should read up on that, but Iran is such a depressing subject.....

49 posted on 06/09/2003 8:16:03 AM PDT by mil-vet
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To: wideminded
The fact is this guy is a recognized authority on the history and archaeology of Alexandria.
I'm aware of the debate surrounding the burning of the library at Alexandria. My point -- to the extent that I ever have a point on FRidays other than getting in a cheap and lighthearted shot -- was to give M. Empereur a dose of his own dismissive medicine.

Perhaps a more serious iteration of my post would have been, M. Empereur's statement that "the stories about him are related by a Christian writer and cannot be trusted" is polemic, not scholarship.

50 posted on 06/09/2003 10:54:49 AM PDT by eastsider
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