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CUBA VIES FOR 2012 OLYMPICS
SABC.com (South Africa) ^ | 6/7/2003 | Staff

Posted on 06/07/2003 9:12:47 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez

Cuba is set to make a bid to host the 2012 Olympic Games. Cuban government officials announced say the island nation would make a bid for their capital Havana to host the 2012 Olympic games.

Jose Ramon Fernandez, head of the Cuban Olympic Committee, said his country's bid was partially based on their success in previous Olympics. In the last three Olympic games, Barcelona '92, Atlanta '96 and Sydney '00, Cuba finished as one of the top 10 national medal winners.

In the Sydney games, Cuba finished with 11 gold medals, 11 silver medals and 6 bronze medals. "Our country solicits the right to host the 2012 Olympic based on the success, on the successes of the development of our sports nationally and internationally, of the proven solidarity we have in our avocation and our long, recognised and unblemished history in the bosom of the Olympic movement," said Fernandez.

Officials recognised that there would be strong competition from Moscow, Paris, London, Madrid, New York, and Leipzig. July is the deadline for declarations of intent. "We understand perfectly that the responsibility of the aspiring city increases and that it faces contenders who are equally strong and have their own merits," said Fernandez.

"Despite this, being a poor and underdeveloped country, we trust in our struggle, confident in the victory."

The only Latin American country to host the Olympics was Mexico in 1968. Cuba's bid to host the 2008 Olympics has been rejected by the Olympic committee. The host nation of the 2012 Olympics will be announced on July 6, 2005 in Singapore. - Reuters


TOPICS: Cuba; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Political Humor/Cartoons
KEYWORDS: 2012; castro; cuba

1 posted on 06/07/2003 9:12:48 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: William Wallace; Prodigal Daughter; afraidfortherepublic; JohnHuang2; Budge; A Citizen Reporter; ...
"In the Sydney games, Cuba finished with 11 gold medals, 11 silver medals and 6 bronze medals."

Technically, Cuba won 12 Gold medals, but the rowing team never turned around after crossing the finish line, so they had to give the gold to the second place team.

3 posted on 06/07/2003 9:19:14 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Cuba será libre...soon.)
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To: American Female
2012? Won't Castro be dead by then?
4 posted on 06/07/2003 9:19:20 PM PDT by umgud (gov't has more money than it needs, but never as much as it wants)
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: Luis Gonzalez
LOL! I wouldnt either!
6 posted on 06/07/2003 9:36:30 PM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: Luis Gonzalez
By then, Cuba will be an island paradise, with a booming capitalist market, and surging wealth.

And Castro's grave will be a national spitoon.

7 posted on 06/07/2003 9:37:44 PM PDT by dead
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To: American Female
Under current law, the average US citizen wouldn't be allowed to go to the games, thus reducing the attendance and it would not work.

However, this is a great proposal. It will stir the Cuban people to become a democracy. Heck, Fidel can't last much longer. He was old when I was a kid.

Cuba has great potential. Can't you just imagine all the prestine beaches the US could turn into casinos?

8 posted on 06/07/2003 9:38:02 PM PDT by AGreatPer (And deliver us from Evil Hillary, Amen.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
I bet these folks don't get to go to opening ceremonies.



GLADYS IBARRA LUGO, HOLDING A PHOTOGRAPH OF: RAFAEL IBARRA ROQUE AND MARITZA LUGO FERNANDEZ (HER PARENTS)
from: Center for a Free Cuba
9 posted on 06/07/2003 9:42:09 PM PDT by visualops (Just 'cause I'm only a tagline doesn't mean I can't order my own pizza demmit.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
The only place more inappropriate than NYC for hosting the olympics would be Communist "Cuber."
10 posted on 06/07/2003 10:04:07 PM PDT by Clemenza (East side, West side, all around the town. Tripping the light fantastic on the sidewalks of New York)
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To: umgud
2012? Won't Castro be dead by then?

If he's not, everyone else in Cuba will be.
11 posted on 06/07/2003 10:33:34 PM PDT by T. Buzzard Trueblood
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To: Clemenza
The only place more inappropriate than NYC for hosting the olympics would be Communist "Cuber."

Unless the host has no money, the Olympics Games have yet to meet a host that it considers "inappropriate".


12 posted on 06/07/2003 10:34:23 PM PDT by Polybius
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To: Luis Gonzalez
What ? Castro decided to bankrupt his country by building all those facilities for olympics which would cost at least hundreds of millions of dollars ?

To what purpose does this posturing serve ?

13 posted on 06/07/2003 10:44:51 PM PDT by TigerLikesRooster
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To: Luis Gonzalez
"Technically, Cuba won 12 Gold medals, but the rowing team never turned around after crossing the finish line, so they had to give the gold to the second place team. "

LOL!
14 posted on 06/07/2003 10:46:34 PM PDT by honeygrl (--- ;) ----)
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: American Female
Anyone in Cuba talented at taking to the water is an American by now soaking up your tax dollars in Miami.

"......an American by now soaking up your tax dollars in Miami."?

What kind of a bigoted and ignorant crack is that?

Cuban Americans happen to be one of the most financially successful immigrant groups in American history. This particular Cuban-born Cuban American that grew up in Miami paid $106,000.00 (one hundred and six thousand dollars) in Federal taxes this year, paid a little less last year and will pay a little more next year.

From your profile page, it seems that you are a college student. Considering the amount of Federal tax support that colleges receive, should I make a wise crack about you and your fellow college students soaking up my tax dollars?

BTW, if it weren't for the Cuban American vote in Miami that gave 78% of it's vote to George W. Bush in 2000, Al Gore would be President of the United States right now.

16 posted on 06/07/2003 11:30:31 PM PDT by Polybius
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To: Luis Gonzalez
this was in the Onion, right?
17 posted on 06/08/2003 6:57:45 AM PDT by xsmommy
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Thanks for the heads up!
18 posted on 06/08/2003 7:48:50 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Luis Gonzalez
hehehehe...:)
19 posted on 06/08/2003 9:41:00 AM PDT by skinkinthegrass (Just because you're paranoid,doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. :)
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To: Polybius; American Female
"......an American by now soaking up your tax dollars in Miami."?...What kind of a bigoted and ignorant crack is that?...From your profile page, it seems that you are a college student. Considering the amount of Federal tax support that colleges receive, should I make a wise crack about you and your fellow college students soaking up my tax dollars?

an A BERT...wantta-be, must be wanting to get some thread-time...not quite DU prov...yet. :/

20 posted on 06/08/2003 9:49:42 AM PDT by skinkinthegrass (Just because you're paranoid,doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. :)
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To: AGreatPer
"Cuba has great potential. Can't you just imagine all the pristine beaches the US could turn into casinos?"

Cuba's potential will be realized by Cubans.

21 posted on 06/08/2003 1:29:41 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Cuba será libre...soon.)
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To: xsmommy
Nope...truth is stranger than The Onion at times.
22 posted on 06/08/2003 1:30:30 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Cuba será libre...soon.)
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To: American Female; Polybius
"Anyone in Cuba talented at taking to the water is an American by now soaking up your tax dollars in Miami."

Five siblings left Cuba in the early sixties: my father and his sister, my mother and her brother and sister.

They brought with them their parents and a total of 8 kids (us).

My father retired as CFO of a multi-national company that grows, processes, and trades sugar in the world market, my mother opened a small business which employed four at the time she retired. They had one child after they arrived here; he is a corporate attorney (a damned good one), my middle brother is a nuclear physicist, and I am a Sales Manager for a Top 20 company generating sales in excess of $320 million a year.

One uncle is a Real Estate developer, his wife the Legal Assistant of the Senior Partner in a well-known Miami-based law firm, their daughters are a Computer Systems analyst, a teacher, and a registered nurse.

The next uncle runs a multi-million dollar a year construction firm, his son is his right-hand man inspecting all sites being developed, his other son owns and operates a 125-seat restaurant. His wife owned a beauty parlor until she retired, sold it a quite a profit.

My mother's sister worked as a seamstress until retirement, her husband was a Maitre D' at a famous South Beach resort until his death. Their oldest son is a veterinarian, the daughter married a VP with Chrysler, and raised her children, and their youngest drowned while swimming in a Miami canal. He was fifteen, and a brilliant student.

Our parents cared for our elderly at home until it became necessary to bring them to hospitals, we did not take money from the government for them. Our parents paid for all our tuitions, with the exception of those, like my youngest brother, who earned MERIT BASED scholarships; my brother received a 100% scholarship to the University of Miami, as well as to the Law School at UM both based on his academic achievements. Not one single one of us took out a student loan.

We have been too occupied with the process of becoming fabulously successful to take any time to soak up tax dollars...hell, we've generated more than most.

Our story as a family is not unique within the Cuban immigrant community.

Drop me a résumé after you graduate, and I'll see if we can help you find a way to earn the living you owe those of us who paid for your education.

23 posted on 06/08/2003 1:58:10 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Cuba será libre...soon.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
:: high five:: : )

guess you made short shrift there, luis!

24 posted on 06/08/2003 2:20:51 PM PDT by xsmommy
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Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: Luis Gonzalez
"Cuba's potential will be realized by Cubans."

I certainly hope so. It depends upon so many variable factors at this time.

26 posted on 06/08/2003 2:58:59 PM PDT by AGreatPer (And deliver us from Evil Hillary, Amen.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Why not?

Having the fascist Cubans host the games in 2012 would be a great follow-up to having the fascist Chinese host them in 2008.

27 posted on 06/08/2003 3:01:17 PM PDT by Mulder (Live Free or die)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
"We have been too occupied with the process of becoming fabulously successful to take any time to soak up tax dollars...hell, we've generated more than most"

Soo uhm, can you adopt me? I'll learn spanish! My kid are young enough to learn to call you grampa (or abuelo as babelfish tells me is the spanish word) too! LOL
28 posted on 06/08/2003 4:06:33 PM PDT by honeygrl (--- ;) ----)
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To: American Female
I guess since you paid $100,000 plus on your tax dollars that makes up for the millions ILLEGAL immigrants and illegal Cubans receive in welfare and free medical care every year, right?"

Your original comment was ignorant and ill-advised, now you're bordering on idiocy.

Since you seem to be one about facts, let's check the pertinent facts here, shall we?

The discussion at hand, one begun by your comment on this thread, has concerned itself with Cuban immigrants, of which there not MILLIONS of here in the US by the way...as a matter of fact, there are quite possibly NO ILLEGAL CUBAN IMMIGRANTS IN THE US!

Do you know why I say that? Because of a law called the Cuban Adjustment Act of 1966 (check your facts before posting bad information).

Do you know what the first thing a Cuban who has just landed on US soil does?

He looks for a way to turn himself in to the authorities so that he can claim refuge under the CAA!!!

Now, even a college person such as yourself would understand that ANYONE WHO IS NOT HERE LEGALLY WOULD WANT TO AVOID THE AUTHORITIES AT ALL COSTS!

Look at your own idiotic cut-and-paste "facts".

"Over 700,000 illegal aliens are living in Florida"

"Immigrant Admissions FY'91-'98: Top Ten Countries Rank Country No. of Immigrants 1.) Cuba

How does being admitted translate into "illegal"?

I'm not done with your lesson for the day, I'll be back later...looks like that there fancy learnin' school house you go to ain't learnin you too good, so I reckon a couple of Cuban immigrants are about to teach you a thing or two.

P.S. Why don't you compare the dollar figures posted to the overall cost of all entitlement programs in the US today.

One of the first things you need to learn, is to think for yourself, instead of allowing this organization or that organization lead you by the nose to whatever conclusion they want you to make.

The problem is not the illegal alien, the problem is the welfare State...period.

You want to be a conservative?

Learn to fight the disease, not just medicate the symptoms.

29 posted on 06/08/2003 4:08:30 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Cuba será libre...soon.)
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To: honeygrl
"My kid are young enough to learn to call you grampa"

Yeah, but would they get along with their seven and three year-old uncles?

30 posted on 06/08/2003 4:11:50 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Cuba será libre...soon.)
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To: American Female
Sounds like, at that rate, Cuba will be empty and castro can die a lonely death. Maybe then people can go back to raclaim their country and make it successful.
31 posted on 06/08/2003 4:14:23 PM PDT by honeygrl (--- ;) ----)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
"Yeah, but would they get along with their seven and three year-old uncles? "


My 2 1/2 yr old gets along with almost anyone. My 7mth old is tricky though.. she dislikes most men for some reason. I think it's simply because they aren't mommy. Could be the deeper voice thing. She love ALL children though. The louder the better.
32 posted on 06/08/2003 4:19:53 PM PDT by honeygrl (--- ;) ----)
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Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: American Female
"Fidel Castro is an evil man, he has turned a once beautiful island into a communist, impoverished nation. I'd like to be a fly on the wall during his judgement day. "

Well, he's getting pretty old and he's gotta die one day. How come no one has assassinated him yet?
34 posted on 06/08/2003 4:41:52 PM PDT by honeygrl (--- ;) ----)
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To: American Female; Luis Gonzalez
A little touchy are we? My comment was taking a humorous tone and I am sorry if you don't agree with me, however I am perplexed at your response. Yes, only evil, white, "bigots" such as myself .....Furthermore, Polybius, I would expect more of an intelligent debate coming from someone so accomplished. Calling me a bigot and insinuating that I am a racist because I state the obvious is an oversight on your part. "Anyone in Cuba talented at taking to the water is an American by now soaking up your tax dollars in Miami."

Ummm......Where did I ever mention the word "racist", American Female? Could you please show us where?

I labeled your remark as "bigoted and ignorant".

Your "racist" comment is another case in point in ignorance. In your world, are only those people that don't speak Spanish eligible to be "white"?

My family, as do many Cuban families, has roots in the northern Spanish regions of Galicia and Asturias which were Celtic regions during the Roman conquest. (Thus the name "Galicia" from the Roman "Gallaecia" meaning "Land of the Celts".) As such, my great-grandfather, my grandfather, my father, myself and my children had and do have blonde hair and blue eyes and the skin under our bathing suits is just as white as yours.

My brunette cousins that take after the Castillian sides of the family are no less "white" than a brunette Frenchman.

How did we surrender our "whiteness" to you?

A "bigot" is defined by Webster's as "one obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his own church, party, belief or opinion." Such intolerance is often displayed by generalizations demeaning another group in broad terms.

Nineteenth Century examples were comments such as:

Anyone who is Irish is a drunk.

Anyone who is Catholic can never be a loyal American as Catholics owe their allegiance to Rome.

Twentieth Century examples were comments such as:

Anyone who is Jewish is deceitful and avaricious.

Anyone who is Polish or Russians is a Slavic untermenchen and is inferior to the German Aryan race.

Anyone who is Black is lazy and likes watermelon.

Your "humorous" example was:

"Anyone in Cuba talented at taking to the water is an American by now soaking up your tax dollars in Miami".

If I were to engage in such statements, I could contribute:

Anyone who is a college student will spew forth ignorant and sophomoric comments.

However, not all and, as a matter of fact, most college students do not spew forth such comments.

Your comments about every illegal alien that ever crossed the border are dumped right on the lap of all Cubans in Miami in general.

An occasional bigoted remark does not a bigot make. Defending such remarks and claiming that they are justified....well, that's another matter.

Every population group has crime and every population group has welfare dependents. The Pacific Northwest county that I now live in has one of the highest welfare rates and teenage pregnancy rates in Washington State and it is almost exclusively "Anglo" and lily white.

What generalizations should I draw from that?

In order to judge a population, you need to look at it's statistic as a whole. As a whole, Cuban Americans have been one of the most financially successful immigrant populations in America and financial success means you pay more taxes.

In 1997, 55.1 percent of second-generation Cuban Americans had an income greater than $30,000 versus 44.1 percent of "Anglo Americans", 36.9 percent of second-generation Cuban Americans had an income greater than $50,000 versus 18.1 percent of "Anglo Americans" and eleven percent of Cuban Americans had incomes greater than $100,000 versus nine percent of Anglo Americans and less than two percent of other "Hispanics" or "Latinos" or whatever this label is to describe anyone with a Spanish surname.

Of course, I realize that we shouldn't be so "sensitive" to your "humorous" generalizations.

Maybe Luis and I need to learn how to be less sensitive and maybe you and your college professors can help us in this regard.

Next week, American Female, go to one of your African American professors, bring him a watermelon and make a "humorous" comment about how anyone who is Black likes watermelon and how anyone who is Black is "soaking up our tax dollars".

Next, go to one of your Jewish professors and make a "humorous" comment about how anyone who is Jewish must really know how to take the money out of a Gentile's pocket.

Please write back to Luis and me about how your African American and Jewish professors handled your sophomoric "humor" so that we may learn to be just as good sports as they were.

35 posted on 06/08/2003 5:33:27 PM PDT by Polybius
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To: Luis Gonzalez
If they just had the wooden spike to put into Castro.
36 posted on 06/08/2003 5:35:53 PM PDT by bmwcyle (Semper Gumby - Always flexible)
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To: Polybius
"Anyone who is Jewish is deceitful and avaricious."

I thought Jewish people were wealthy and good with money.

And anyway, I notice that you didn't jump on Luis when he ALSO made a joke about the Cuban rowing team in the Olympics. While I doubt the tax dollars part is true, I thought the swimming remark was funny. Get a sense of humor. People who can't laugh at themselves aren't any fun. I don't get all annoyed when I get called a redneck since I'm from GA. It's because I can laugh about me and my fellow rednecks.
37 posted on 06/08/2003 8:39:59 PM PDT by honeygrl (Don't be a PC-Nazi.)
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To: honeygrl; Luis Gonzalez
I thought Jewish people were wealthy and good with money.

That is hardly how the 20th Century bigots in Germany I was reffing to depicted Jews.

Anti-Semitic cartoons from Der Stürmer

As for how American Northerners in 1868 depicted the Irish, the Southerners and the Jews, you can look at this Thomas Nast cartoon.

And anyway, I notice that you didn't jump on Luis when he ALSO made a joke about the Cuban rowing team in the Olympics. While I doubt the tax dollars part is true, I thought the swimming remark was funny. Get a sense of humor. People who can't laugh at themselves aren't any fun. I don't get all annoyed when I get called a redneck since I'm from GA. It's because I can laugh about me and my fellow rednecks.

There is a world of difference between a good-natured Jeff Foxworthy style joke about "rednecks" and making a statement such as:

"Anybody that is a Southerner is a welfare parasite soaking up your tax dollars".

It is true that Southerners laugh at themselves for being "rednecks" and Cubans laugh at themselves for being "Cubanazos".

However, we Cuban Americans see no more humor in some people such as American Female falsely depicting one of the most successful and hard working immigrant groups in American history as welfare parasites "soaking up your tax dollars" any more than Southerners see humor in some people falsely depicting Southern heroes such as Robert E. Lee as "symbols of Southern racism".

I know that for a fact because I have spent considerable time on Civil War threads repeatedly defending Southerners and their heritage from such cheap shots.

When those cheap shots come, Southerners are in no mood to "laugh at themselves" and there is absolutely no reason why they should be.

If you want to read the history lesson on the reputation of Robert E. Lee that I gave to a Boy Scout leader from New England who believed that naming a Boy Scout Council in Richmond, Virginia after Robert E. Lee in 1942 was an act of Southern racism, you can read it in Post 138 on this thread.

38 posted on 06/08/2003 11:02:43 PM PDT by Polybius
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To: Polybius
Well, the swimming part was funny anyhow. And now she's been educated on the mistake of the welfare thing.
39 posted on 06/09/2003 12:04:38 AM PDT by honeygrl
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To: Polybius
"When those cheap shots come, Southerners are in no mood to "laugh at themselves" and there is absolutely no reason why they should be."

Well, I can always laugh at myself as long as it's meant to be a joke. It's one of the traits you have to learn to survive public schools in the US :)
40 posted on 06/09/2003 8:30:45 AM PDT by honeygrl
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To: honeygrl
I don't get all annoyed when I get called a redneck

I'm sorry honeygrl, but the proper term is "Appalachian-American"!
41 posted on 06/09/2003 8:35:40 AM PDT by GodBlessRonaldReagan (where is Count Petofi when we need him most?)
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To: Polybius
And I just read the post yuo made defending R.E.Lee on the boy scout thread and it is very well written and was very educationaly. I love to learn about the civil war. Of course the only books I could bring myself to read about it were fictional. LOL I've read Gone With The Wind atleast 5 times because I loved the characters and enjoy stories set in that time period. I also love any movie that was set before the hoop skirt went out of style. I think the reason a lot of us southern women dislike feminism so much is because we have "Southern Belle-itis" and WANT our men to take care of us. You know of any good historical fiction set in Cuba from an author that actually researched it well? I'd love to read something like that. It has to have a little romance involved though.
42 posted on 06/09/2003 8:57:04 AM PDT by honeygrl
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To: honeygrl
Well, I can always laugh at myself as long as it's meant to be a joke. It's one of the traits you have to learn to survive public schools in the US :)

The stuff they throw out on the Civil War threads is seldom a meant to be a joke and the Southern-bashing gets pretty viscious.

When I jump in to defend to integrity and honor of someone like Robert E. Lee, someone new to those threads usually ends up calling me a Southern redneck who is probably a fourth generation member of the Ku Klux Klan.

It's funny when they find out that I'm a Cuban American instead of a Southron American. :-)

43 posted on 06/09/2003 9:00:32 AM PDT by Polybius
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To: Polybius
"The stuff they throw out on the Civil War threads is seldom a meant to be a joke and the Southern-bashing gets pretty viscious."

That's the difference. I think half of her comment was joking and the other half was half-joking due to lack of education on the matter. I don't think she was intentionally trying to be mean. On the civil war threads, a lot of the people genuinely hate the whole idea of The Old South and anyone who defends it or people who militarily defended it.
44 posted on 06/09/2003 9:44:37 AM PDT by honeygrl
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To: honeygrl
And I just read the post yuo made defending R.E.Lee on the boy scout thread and it is very well written and was very educationaly. I love to learn about the civil war. Of course the only books I could bring myself to read about it were fictional. LOL I've read Gone With The Wind atleast 5 times because I loved the characters and enjoy stories set in that time period. I also love any movie that was set before the hoop skirt went out of style. I think the reason a lot of us southern women dislike feminism so much is because we have "Southern Belle-itis" and WANT our men to take care of us.

If you want to ease yourself into something other than Civil War novels, you may want to read the diaries of some Southern women of the era. You will then get the "Southern Belle-itis" and other woman-stuff of the period without the man-stuff about whether Lee should have followed Longstreet's advice to attempt to turn the Union left flank at Gettysburg instead of.....

The diaries would include:

Sarah Morgan's Diary

Mary Chesnut's Diary

Lucy Breckinridge's Diary

You know of any good historical fiction set in Cuba from an author that actually researched it well? I'd love to read something like that. It has to have a little romance involved though.

Romance?

Well.....ummmm.....Jeez, honeygrl, Cuban guys don't go around reading romance!

Wouldn't you like to consider a good book on how Mahan's concepts of seapower affect the military logistics and therefore the military outcome in any conflict on islands such as Britain and Cuba and therefore account for the longevity of the defending forces on such......

You're nodding off already. O.K. Romance......

(Mutter, mutter.......Yeah, Cuban and Southern guys talk tough but the fact is that we have a ring through our noses and are led around by women who talk sweetly and ask nicely......Why can't my California-born wife get off her feminist horse and be more like a Southern or Cuban lady....Mutter, muttter....)

Research. Research......

O.K. Here are two.

Back during the Cuban Wars of Independence from Spain, a certain Evangelina Cisneros caught America's fancy as a damsel in distress when she was rescued from a Spanish prison by an American reporter from the Hearst newspaper chain. On a hunch, I did a search and, sure enough, someone sat down and wrote a historical novel about it with romance in it.

White Rose: Una Rosa Blanca

A while back, someone gave me a contemporary novel about three Cuban women on different sides of the Castro Revolution that's been sitting unread on my bookshelves for years. The reviews say that it has a little bit of romance in it in the form of letters to a long lost love from the gandmother's earlier days.

Dreaming in Cuban

If you read any of them, let me know how you liked them.

45 posted on 06/10/2003 8:30:19 AM PDT by Polybius
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To: Polybius
Wow, thanks! Part of the reason I like Gone With the Wind type novels is that they put a lot of history in along with the romance and personal stuff. I do enjoy learning history but I need a little extra incentive to read about it rather than listen to someone just tell me what happened like they did back in school. I'm going to check out all of those links eventually! Thanks!
46 posted on 06/10/2003 2:51:18 PM PDT by honeygrl
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Comment #47 Removed by Moderator

To: American Female; Luis Gonzalez
In my last post I presented both of you gentleman with strong, legitimate facts regarding immigration to the United States illegal and "legal" and the Herculean costs to the tax-payer. Besides stating the fact that the overwhelming immigration problem in the state of Florida is costing millions for the state and Floridian taxpayers, I also provided you with statistics, facts, and information regarding the nationalities of Floridian immigrants, which place Cuban immigrants in overwhelming numbers.

I posted several citations given by the Federal government and independent organizations concerning the financial detriment of immigration to Florida. Using the power of logical deduction, one can assume since so many Cubans comprise the statistics attributed to immigrants of south Florida, whether “legal” or not, some of them are “soaking up tax dollars in Miami”. The fact that refugees are automatically granted citizenship under the CAA, only further enables them to rely on government subsidized programs providing your island brethren good old American greenbacks at the expense of the Florida taxpayer, as we can see from my previous posts.

Let me guess, American Female. You are the product of a public high school education, aren't you?

Your powers of "logical deduction" are extremely sophomoric.

To begin with, you suffer from the GIGO (Garbage In-Garbage Out) Syndrome.

The immigrant population statistics in Florida do not, as you falsely claim, "place Cuban immigrants in overwhelming numbers". According to the U.S. Census of 2000, Cuban Americans comprise only 31.1 % of all so-called "Latinos" in Florida:

Hispanic Population of Florida by region of Origin/Nationality, U.S. Census 2000

The other 68.9% of so-called "Latinos" in Florida are a combination of Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, Central Americans, South Americans, etc.

And that does not even included the wave of Haitian immigrants that are not counted as "Latinos" or "Hispanic" or whatever the meaningless catch-all label of the week is for someone with a Spanish surname.

That 31.1% minority of the Florida "Latinos" that the Cuban Americans now represent includes every Cuban American from immigrants that have been in this country since 1960 to third generation Cuban Americans born this very year.

Since you are still a college student (and I will assume, for the sake of argument, that you have not failed any grades), that means that you were born after 1980. My first cousins and I, the yougest of the cousins, came to the U.S. from Cuba in 1960. By the year you were born, one of my cousins was C.P.A. and owner of his own accounting firm, one cousin was the CEO of one of the largest banks in Florida, one cousin was the owner of a multi-million dollar business and I was an M.D. and a U.S. Naval officer in the U.S. Navy Medical Corps.

However, your "logical deduction" mixes our immigrant statistics with the illegal alien statistics of the Mexican illegal alien that crossed the Rio Grande five weeks ago.

Your "logical deduction" is so sophomoric that it fails to consider that all "immigrants" are no more equally interchangeable than all "females" are.

By what you consider "logical deduction", Werner von Braun, the German immigrant designer of the Saturn 5 rocket that put Americans on the moon, was a drag on America as much as the Mexican illegal alien who crossed the border last year and now belongs to a street gang.

By what you consider "logical deduction", "females" are a drag on the American taxpayer.

To wit: All second or third generation welfare mothers are female. Female welfare mothers are a drain on American taxpayers. Statistics will show that about half of all student in your college are female. You have admitted that you are a female at that college. Using the power of logical deduction, one can assume since so many females comprise the statistics attributed to welfare mothers in America, you and the other female students at your college are “soaking up tax dollars”.

BTW, setting up a Strawman Argument by changing your original "anybody" to the "some" in your last post does not win you any more debating points than first claiming that a statement that "Anybody who is a female is soaking up tax dollars" actually means "Some who are female are soaking up tax dollars".

What you consider "logical deduction" won't get you very far up the corporate or professional ladder once you graduate from college and have to compete in the Real World, American Female. Unless you are in college simply to get an "Mrs. Degree", it would behoove you to improve your powers of "logical deduction" unless you want to go through life asking, "Do you want fries with that."

I realize that you seem to be a very concrete thinker, American Female, and that you have difficulty with abstract concepts. However, try to understand that, if pigs are vertebrates and swallows are vertebrates, it does not follow that pigs fly like swallows.

Not all vertabrate groups are alike. Likewise, not all immigrant groups are alike.

Different immigrant groups come from different cultures.

Some cultures value education and others don't. Some cultures have a greater work ethic than others. Some cultures have a long history of mercantile success and some cultures don't.

I am sure that, academically, you are far above the second generation Central American Amerindian whose parents may have never set foot in a school and who never valued the importance of education for their children.

On the other hand, from what you have shown us, I would wager that the typical second generation Asian-American college student on the West Coast chews you up and spits you out academically.

Cuban Americans are successful because we come from a cultures that instills the values that lead to success.

In your last post, you expressed incredulity at how a Cuban could possibly be more successful than people that "came from Europe". Where do you think white Cubans originally came from, American Female? Mars?

Most Cubans can tell you from what region of Spain each branch of their family came from. During pre-Castro days, Cuba and Argentina had the highest per capita income and the largest per capita middle classes in all of Latin America. Cuba even had a large amount of immigration from Europeans seeking greater economic opportunity in Cuba than they had in Europe.

Thus, a large percentage of Cuban immigrants had a family history of economic and educational success going back 100 or 200 years.

One hundred and fifty years ago, my wife's "European" ancestors were Polish peasants growing potatoes in Poland. One hundred and fifty years ago, my Cuban ancestors were business owners, professionals and men of letters in Cuba. In 1912, while my wife's Polish-American grandfather achieved the highest education that family had ever had by graduating from high school and leaving it at that, my Cuban grandfather was earning a doctorate degree at an American Ivy League university before going back home to Cuba.

When Castro came, hundreds of thousands of solid, middle class Cubans with solid educational and business experience came to the U.S.

Yes, things were tough and our income was not very high that first decade. My father was a hospital administrator and part owner of a Volkswagen dealership in Cuba. When we first got here, he had to drive a taxi for several years. My uncle was an attorney in Cuba. When we got here, he had to pump gas at a gas station for several years.

However, we and the tens of thousands of other Cuban families that had left everything from large businesses to Mom and Pop stores back in Cuba simply buckled down and used the same values that had made them economically successful in Cuba to become succesful here.

In the 1960's and 1970's, while my wife's "Anglo" parents (the first of their family to ever graduate from college) believed that public school was good enough for their children, Cuban immigrant parents typically scrimped and sacrificed to do whatever it took to send their kids to private or Catholic schools.

In the 1960's and 1970's, while "Anglo" kids were into drugs and sex and losing their virginity in high school, Cuban American kids were still living the values that America used to have in the 1940's.

In the 1960's, while "Anglo" Baby Boomers were being spoiled rotten by their parents who had lived through the Depression, Cuban American kids were growing up like the Baby Boomer's parents learning a work ethic from their parents who were trying to regain the economic success that they had lost to Castro.

So, yes, second generation Cuban Americans have kicked economic butt in the U.S. just like Asian-Americans have kicked economic butt in the U.S.

Here are the year 2000 economic statistics quoted from U.S. Government sources:

By 2000, the Cuban-American population reached 1,241,685 persons divided into 474,258 households with a median income of $30,084. This translates into a total household income of $14.2 billion. In addition, in 1997, 125,182 Cuban-owned businesses, 30,203 of them with paid employees, had sales and receipts in excess of $26 billion.

Those U.S. Government figure are for ALL Cuban Americans including the ones who may have landed in the U.S. three months ago and may be pumping gas at a filling station as my uncle did when he first came to the U.S.

The statistics that I quoted you stated that they were for SECOND GENERATION Cuban Americans. (Sociologists consider young immigrant children to be "second generation" and their immigrant parents to be "first generation".) The second generation is my generation and Luis' generation. We benefited from the non-public school education that our Cuban parents and tens of thousands of other Cuban parents sacrificed to give us. We benefited from the work ethic that our Cuban parents instilled in us. We benefited from the old time values that the "Anglo" Baby Boomer generation rejected.

In short, American Female, we second generation Cuban Americans academically and economically outperformed your parent's Baby Boomer "Anglo" generation just as present-day second generation Asian Americans are outperforming your present-day "Anglo" generation.

The reason we did so and the reason Asian-Americans are now doing so is not rocket science.

In the 1960's, America's Baby Boomer generation threw out the old-fashioned values that had made America great.

The Cuban Americans and the Asian-Americans never let those values go. That is why we are doing better than you and your Baby Boomer "Anglo" parents.

For the future, you will need to turn that around.

If not, 20 years from now, you will be working for the people who work for the people who work for my kids...... and my oldest kid is only in 7th Grade right now.

48 posted on 06/11/2003 1:08:13 AM PDT by Polybius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Polybius; honeygrl
Ah!

Cuban men don't go around reading about romance, but we do read about passion.

49 posted on 06/11/2003 4:09:22 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Cuba será libre...soon.)
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