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Airline Confiscates Empty Cigar Lighters Packed in Checked Luggage
Cigar Aficionado ^
| May 27, 2003
| James Suckling
Posted on 06/08/2003 1:05:01 PM PDT by ml/nj
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To: Political Junkie Too
It never ceases to amaze me the amount of bleating and whining I observe on this forum from the ill informed and down right ignorant. (This comment was not directed at you Political Junkie Too as you have taken the time to research your comment its just an observation on my part).
The simple fact of the matter is a pipe lighter where the flame can be locked on is a prohibited item dangerous good as classified by IATA.
These rules have nothing to do with September 11th they are all to do with the safety of the Aircraft, crew and passengers.
A prime example of lighter is your Zippo or similar whether fueled by liquid or gas the lighter itself is ok, spare fuel in either you carry-on or hold luggage is not.
If you are unsure if an item you have is prohibited read the back of your ticket or ask a representative of your airline. If you cannot be bothered to do this and get caught out you only have yourself to blame.
61
posted on
06/08/2003 2:43:53 PM PDT
by
KiaKaha
To: KCmark
It's not a license to steal.Au contraire, mon ami. But 'tis such. Hang out with some of these failed cop wannabes and listen to them brag about their "scores".
62
posted on
06/08/2003 2:46:55 PM PDT
by
woofer
To: KiaKaha
The simple fact of the matter is a pipe lighter where the flame can be locked on is a prohibited item dangerous good as classified by IATA. Fair enough. Then the man should have been given back his property and allowed to make alternative transportation arrangements for his property and/or himself.
63
posted on
06/08/2003 2:51:36 PM PDT
by
supercat
(TAG--you're it!)
To: clintonh8r
To be honest...I'm not sure if I had that one.
To: strela
Personally I don't consider my cigar lighter a "gas torch". It's a freaking lighter. It is quite simple to verify it is empty. What danger does it pose? Why could she not give it back to him? (But could give it to someone else? That's just weird). It does sound to me like it was appropriated, probably because it was silver or gold. I call this government supported airline induced theft.
To: Jack Black
BTW: I like AVO Dominae's and CAO Maduros.
To: ml/nj
This sort of thing never happens if you boycott the airlines' airport/POW camps.
Bankruptcy tends to clarify things for people.
To: Jack Black
Personally I don't consider my cigar lighter a "gas torch". It's a freaking lighter. It is quite simple to verify it is empty. Again, American Airlines' posted rules make no distinction between an empty or full cigar lighter of the type that was confiscated. And again, the author of the piece bore the primary responsibility to make sure that his personal property could be transported under the rules laid down by American. This he arguably failed to do.
What danger does it pose?
Your lighter? Probably none. But are you willing to assign the same level of confidence to everybody else's lighter as well?
Why could she not give it back to him?
Their policy their rules. Don't like it? Then don't fly American (or likely any other airline from what I've seen, as they all seem to have similar policies).
It does sound to me like it was appropriated, probably because it was silver or gold.
Then color me amazed that my gold and silver cufflinks and studs, my gold pendant, my Seiko maritime watch, and my ring made it through TSA hell on my recent trip, because all did so without a hitch.
I call this government supported airline induced theft.
I call it failure to exercise due diligence on the part of the author of the piece.
68
posted on
06/08/2003 3:19:54 PM PDT
by
strela
(Just shoot me now, 'cause I've done it all.)
To: ml/nj
Pretty interesting considering that a freight forwarder could send this over the counter on AMERICAN Airlines or anyone else and send them with no problems.
69
posted on
06/08/2003 3:22:41 PM PDT
by
Centurion2000
(We are crushing our enemies, seeing him driven before us and hearing the lamentations of the liberal)
To: KCmark
"I've had to remind them of that twice now as they tried to take nice pens."
They tried to take your pens? What was their proffered justification for this?
Now I HAVE heard everything!
To: ml/nj
Besides everything else, I guess I wonder why the Airline wouldn't charge the guy ten bucks and mail his dangerous cargo wherever he wanted it mailed. Treating customers like that is a sure path to bankruptcy. Unfortunately, treating customers like that is standard procedure, the Airline Attitude. No wonder everybody has stopped flying unless they absolutely, positively have to go somewhere they can't drive. No wonder that the major carriers are going broke. Good riddance - unless Congress makes us subsidize them.
To: strela
But we were free once. I know we were, I can remember it.
72
posted on
06/08/2003 3:52:04 PM PDT
by
Rifleman
To: Henrietta
They claimed they were too sharp. ?! I raised my voice a little, said, "You will have to take every pen from every passenger or we're gonna have a problem." They called a supervisor who said it was ok to give me my property back. You always take the chance of a bogus arrest I suppose, but I can't just stand there and let them steal.
My wife had her sharp tweezers taken. A cop started getting closer when she was questioning the security on their pilfering. I told her she should have filed a complaint with him (the cop) instead of being intimidated. The security finally agreed they should not have taken the tweezers, but as they were already in the 'security box', they couldn't get them back for her. What crap. But if you want to catch your flight, you just go along to get along.
73
posted on
06/08/2003 3:55:51 PM PDT
by
KCmark
(I am NOT a partisan.)
To: strela
I just don't see any cause for outrage here. The guy failed to follow the rules and paid for it. If he doesn't like it, let him do the due diligence next time or take the bus. Let's face it - had he been carrying an empty 59-cent Bic instead of a empty $300 model, this would never have happened. Some little tin tyrant at the gate saw something she felt like helping herself to, and decided to pull a Silly Rule out of her butt to suit the occasion. Airlines have lots of Silly Rules, designed for instant use when an employee notices that a passenger is for some unaccountable reason having a nice day.
Why not give passengers the option of mailing the offending item home?
To: strela
Don't like it? Then don't fly American (or likely any other airline from what I've seen, as they all seem to have similar policies).
BS! That argument was lost when our government sent them checks. Yes, I'm willing to take a chance on everyone elses lighter. Freedom is becoming an illusion. We are too open a society. It is our strength and weakness. I am not willing to give that up in the name of security. I'm surprised by anyone who would.
75
posted on
06/08/2003 4:04:51 PM PDT
by
KCmark
(I am NOT a partisan.)
To: strela
As for my cheap Bic, I don't drop a bill and a half on a freaking cigar lighter because I risk part of my disposable income to attempt to become wealthy to the point where I can afford things like $150 lighters without blinking an eye. If you're trying to make the point that anyone who uses a disposable lighter is a liberal, it is laughable at best. Of course using a cheap Bic lighter doesn't make you a liberal. It's using the victim's possession of an expensive lighter to make a cheesy class-warfare argument that makes you a liberal. As an example of this, go to Salon.com and look up Arianna Huffington's archived rants on SUV owners.
To: ml/nj
"Couldn't you just give me the lighters back?" I asked politely. "I am unauthorized to do that, and I could be fined if I did so,"
The implication of this exchanges is the AA employee is concerned about some government regulation or law.
That being the case, the rights of the passenger were violated in two ways:
Amendment IV
"...warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
The AA employee had no warrant, fulfilling the requirements of the 4th amendment.
Amdnement V
"... nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation."
It is for the public use that his property was taken.
If the AA employee was not acting as a deputized federal agent, but as a private citizen employed by AA, acting on AA's private property regulation, then she should be charged with theft.
77
posted on
06/08/2003 4:12:35 PM PDT
by
tahiti
To: BlazingArizona
Let's face it - had he been carrying an empty 59-cent Bic instead of a empty $300 model, this would never have happened. Some little tin tyrant at the gate saw something she felt like helping herself to, and decided to pull a Silly Rule out of her butt to suit the occasion. (Said "Silly Rule" being clearly posted beforehand on the company's web site and provided in their dead tree literature, well before the guy ever flew. Of course).
Then I'll ask you the same question I asked earlier in the thread, said question to which I still have failed to receive an answer. If petty theft is indeed American's company policy as seems to be the charge of many here, then why weren't my silver and gold cufflinks/watch/ring/pendant, etc. taken from me during my recent trip? A strong enough metal chain could certainly be used to strangle somebody, a watch could be the cleverly-concealed timer for the Semtex molded into my humble but comfortable SAS loafers, and my ring could contain a chip with records of Osama bin Ladin's last 5 high colonics.
Airlines have lots of Silly Rules, designed for instant use when an employee notices that a passenger is for some unaccountable reason having a nice day.
Hyperbole. On the other hand, my recent flights were smooth (if not giddily enjoyable) experiences. For example, I would pay extra - MUCH extra - to be able to take a flight that allowed smoking. Figure the odds.
Maybe a lot of the author's troubles can be pinned on the attitude he displayed - The Golden Rule and all that.
Why not give passengers the option of mailing the offending item home?
Ask American Airlines. I don't have the answer to that one. Better yet, if they have a policy you don't like, then fly with another airline. There is no Constitutional right to stuff yourself into a thin metal cigar with 200 other people and go zooming halfway across the country at accelerated speeds.
78
posted on
06/08/2003 4:35:18 PM PDT
by
strela
(Just shoot me now, 'cause I've done it all.)
To: KCmark
I carry a recent printout of the TSA "What Can I Bring?" list, and am prepared to say, "Well, gosh, there must be some confusion...your own website says I can bring it, see? Why don't you call your supervisor."
I'm not going to let them steal from me. Good for you for not letting them steal from you.
To: Rifleman
But we were free once. I know we were, I can remember it. Free to carry potential explosives on aircraft filled with other people? Free to simply make up our own rules as we go, dreamily ignorant of other people's safety? No, I can't say that I ever recall living in that sort of country.
80
posted on
06/08/2003 4:38:40 PM PDT
by
strela
(Just shoot me now, 'cause I've done it all.)
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