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Psychiatric Association Debates Lifting Pedophilia Taboo
CNSNews.com ^ | 6/11/03 | Lawrence Morahan

Posted on 06/11/2003 2:18:54 AM PDT by kattracks

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To: kattracks
If anybody is surprised by that, I have a bridge in New York you may be interested in.
151 posted on 06/11/2003 2:11:02 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: Clint N. Suhks
"Oh please, society is a group of individuals and you know that’s who and what I was addressing. .. Nice try again at sophistry though."

Ok.. then address which rights of these collective individuals are being violated by private consensual adult sodomy. As a side note, can you go through a single thread without saying "sophistry"?

"so AGAIN where is sodomy listed in the constitution like gun ownership"

See my earlier posts. We can go around on this all day.

"I’m prepared to live by the constitution unlike you and if you live in one the states that has sodomy laws that would make you a felon."

More BS from you. AND... now you pretend to know what sexual practices I engage in? Quit thinking about what I get up to, Clint.

On to what you think the government should busy itself with and has an interest in...

"It does for the sake of society, like consensual pedophilia, bestiality, drug and euthanasia laws."

Disagree, except for pedophilia and euthanasia.. but those arguments are for another time. Try to stick to a single topic.

"Nope, the truth is not an attack on ones character, it’s simply the truth."

Ad hominem means instead of debating the points of the argument, you debate characteristics of your opponent. It may be true or untrue. Once again you show problems understanding definitions and logical fallacies.

"This thread is about paraphilic disorder so homosexuality, bestiality…are all included."

No, this thread as titled is about lifting pedophilia from the list of mental illnesses. It incorrectly states that the psychiatric association is trying to lift the taboo, but anyway.. it isn't about homosexuality.

So again.. If you want to argue about homosexuality, either mail me or keep it on a thread about homosexuality.

152 posted on 06/11/2003 2:12:52 PM PDT by Qwerty (Breakin' the LAW, Breakin the LAW!)
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To: kattracks
Dr. Laura is on the air as I speak:
"I told you so. And I HATE being vindicated [by this news]."
153 posted on 06/11/2003 2:14:28 PM PDT by L.N. Smithee (Just because I don't think like you doesn't mean I don't think for myself)
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To: kuma
I have a 1953 editor of Encyclopedia Americana. It is interesting to read the article on Homosexuality. What did they learn about homosexuality between 1953 and 1973? Nada!Yet they completely changed their view of it. So much for the "science" of it.
154 posted on 06/11/2003 2:57:53 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: goldstategop
Again, we don't for the most part blame someone these days for their alcoholism; we don't see it simply as a moral weakness," he added.

Liberal/leftist/secular humanist/moral relativists in action. Nothing is a moral weakness because the only "sin" is to think that there is such a thing as "right and wrong". The only wrong is to tell someone they have a moral weakness, or proclaim some behavior or desire as wrong. They are hypocrites, fools, and want to destroy the world.

Anyone who thinks that paraphilias are not moral weaknesses probably seeks kiddie porn or worse on the Internet.

155 posted on 06/11/2003 3:00:20 PM PDT by First Amendment
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To: maxwell
I reminded myself that the age-of-consent issue is one that will preclude the legalization of pedophilia, as far as the law is concerned.

Homo-activists have had as part of their platform to eliminate or lower the age of consent. In 1972 they officially wanted to eliminate it but since that was too extreme for societal acceptance they decided to lower it gradually. Check out Europe's age of consent laws - I believe the Netherland's is something like 12.

156 posted on 06/11/2003 3:22:47 PM PDT by First Amendment
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To: Qwerty
Removing it as a mental illness is NOT condoning it, any more than saying murderers are not necessarily mentally ill. If you have a victim, it's still a crime.

Define "condone" -- and please, don't just give me a dictionary definition. Define it in the context of your above statement. What steps would the APA have to take to actually "condone" pedophilia, in your opinion?

157 posted on 06/11/2003 4:08:00 PM PDT by L.N. Smithee (Just because I don't think like you doesn't mean I don't think for myself)
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To: L.N. Smithee
Such redefinition perverts the very process of definition. Like the character in Alice in Wonderland/Through the ZLooking Glass, who said that words mean precisely what I want them to mean. This ignores the fact that thought we can conceive of many models, only some will fit reality.
158 posted on 06/11/2003 4:45:53 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: drlevy88
Thanks for the nomination! };^D)
159 posted on 06/11/2003 4:48:25 PM PDT by RJayneJ (To nominate a Quote of the Day rjaynej@freerepublic.com or put my screen name in the To: line.)
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To: L.N. Smithee
What I am am talking about is what Orwell deplored in "1984."
160 posted on 06/11/2003 4:49:51 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: kattracks
Just as I said on other threads, that what wasn't accepted yesterday but is today, and what isn't accepted today someone will want to tomorrow - well, that day is now here.

161 posted on 06/11/2003 4:51:44 PM PDT by ApesForEvolution ("The only way evil triumphs is if good men do nothing" E. Burke)
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To: MEG33
That is what was said about homosexuality.
162 posted on 06/11/2003 4:54:15 PM PDT by mlmr (The chickens always come home to roost........unless they are eaten by the racoons.)
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To: Kevin Curry
Hey, whatdoyaknow KC? It wasn't even a week from the last thread where we predicted the pervert activists next agenda item.
163 posted on 06/11/2003 4:56:20 PM PDT by ApesForEvolution ("The only way evil triumphs is if good men do nothing" E. Burke)
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To: saramundee
I have a close family member that I have recommended get "voluntary" therapy.

I've never met a gay or lesbian that wasn't dysfunctional in many ways and I've been regularly exposed to the local homosexual community since I was 12 years old. I've seen many of the relationships first hand. Homosexuality is just 1 symptom of complex unresloved problems.

Loving someone means you want the best life possible for them. Sometimes that involves personal responsiblity on their part instead of just protesting the APA and society so we can all "pretend" nothing is wrong.

This is our society's problem. First we condone all hetero/sexual disorders so how could we condemn yet another. They are still hetero (all homosapiens reproduce heterosexually) but a symptom of their problems is being attracted to the same sex.

The fact remains that in 1973 they removed Homophilia because they believed it would help lessen the stigma not because they had any scientific studies that supported their socio/political beliefs.
164 posted on 06/11/2003 5:40:42 PM PDT by kuma
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To: Qwerty
Ok.. then address which rights of these collective individuals are being violated by private consensual adult sodomy.

The law is being violated whether it be consensual a violation or not and homosexuals don’t have that right in many states. What rights of consensual incestuals are being violated through same-sex incest? The drug user, the bestial and his private property…???

As a side note, can you go through a single thread without saying "sophistry"?

Sure, I do it all the time, funny how it usually comes up when “debating” you?

See my earlier posts. We can go around on this all day.

Bullogna, you’ve NEVER offered one bit of credible logic supporting why the 9th isn’t at the mercy of the 10th. I’d be happy to give you Madison’s and Jefferson's oppinion against your incredible piece of logic “9th amendment hint” if I thought you’d bother heeding our founding fathers take on it.

More BS from you. AND... now you pretend to know what sexual practices I engage in? Quit thinking about what I get up to, Clint.

Eww…I’d rather not, but unlike a normal mentally healthy person (Heterosexual), sex is something they do. To the mentally ill person proclaiming to be ('Homosexual'), sex SODOMY is what they are; to pretend your perversion isn’t sodomy is laughable.

On to what you think the government should busy itself with and has an interest in...

Misdemeanor fines are fine by me when those who practice perversion are found. The government (the people) wants to protect our society from those who pervert and seek to negatively change it.

Disagree, except for pedophilia and euthanasia.. but those arguments are for another time. Try to stick to a single topic.

Actually they are exactly the same arguments for homosexuality, if you’re going to make it based on consent then don’t be a hypocrite.

Ad hominem means instead of debating the points of the argument, you debate characteristics of your opponent.

Boy talk about sticking to the subject, ad hominem is prejudice of character, irrational attack, AKA lies…Try looking up the word in your dictionary.

No, this thread as titled is about lifting pedophilia from the list of mental illnesses.

It’s about paraphilic disorder to which pedophilia is ONLY one of many including homosexuality. If you’d bother reading past the title maybe you’d be better prepared.

It incorrectly states that the psychiatric association is trying to lift the taboo, but anyway. it isn't about homosexuality.

It’s coming up for debate at he next APA convention. Homosexuals are lobbying to remove gender identity disorder (a paraphilia) from the DSM, paraphilic disorders often have more than one syndrome afflicting a person, homosexuals often have multiple paraphilia's including their disorder of homosexuality. This is all part of the homosexual agenda, to say any less Is laughable.

So again.. If you want to argue about homosexuality, either mail me or keep it on a thread about homosexuality.

As long as you keep making erroneous public statements there’s not need, you might as well get use to it. Should you ever want to talk about leaving your pathology for any reason I'm always willing to help, just Freepmail me..

165 posted on 06/11/2003 6:32:45 PM PDT by Clint N. Suhks
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To: kattracks

I am speechless..

Can bestiality be far behind?

Head Shrinker: "No! there's nothin wrong with ole' Bob, he just likes to rape sheep. He's as normal as anyone else.. Perfectly fit to be a boy scout leader in my professional opinion.. "

166 posted on 06/11/2003 6:50:08 PM PDT by Jhoffa_ (Your Momma SO FAT, when she wear a "Malcom X" tee shirt, helecopters land on her back)
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To: Jhoffa_
PS: In case no one noticed.. That second paragraph that's quoted up there is dangerously close to normalizing rape.

Read it again, with that thought in mind and see what you think.

This is completely unacceptable and cannot be allowed to be foisted off on gullable Americans as some kind of "scientific breakthrough" or something..

167 posted on 06/11/2003 6:52:54 PM PDT by Jhoffa_ (Your Momma SO FAT, when she wear a "Malcom X" tee shirt, helecopters land on her back)
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To: George W. Bush
{psychiatrists have argued that there is little or no proof that sex with adults is necessarily harmful to minors. Indeed, they have argued that many sexually molested children later look back on their experience as positive}

Unfortunately judges and law enforcement are beginning to believe these ideas, especially when it comes to female public school teachers having affairs with male teen students. Often, judges give these female sex offenders lighter sentences than their male counterparts. The media all too often treats such stories as sensational soap opera stories. Given society's attitudes toward these cases, it shall be a matter of time before men, both straight & gay, demand the same rights as these female sex offender teachers.

168 posted on 06/11/2003 6:58:26 PM PDT by Kuksool
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Comment #169 Removed by Moderator

To: kuma
The fact remains that in 1973 they removed Homophilia because they believed it would help lessen the stigma not because they had any scientific studies that supported their socio/political beliefs. I think they abandoned their stance on homosexuality because they abandoned Freud's theory about it. Since homosexuality did not respond to their treatments, they denied that it was a mental illness.
170 posted on 06/11/2003 7:11:53 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: saramundee
**I don't know the people you've been around but dysfunction is a personality disorder not a symptom of homosexuality.**
Homosexuality is an symptom of dysfunction.

1 out of 2 gay men will contract AIDS in their lifetime. It has everything to do with the vulnerabilities of anal intercourse.

Your son is going to face a lifetime of the gay lifestyle.
Please read this article and find out what is in store for him.
http://www.fathersforlife.org/dale/aidsindx.html

If you actually read the studies in this article, many of which were conducted by gay activists themselves during the height of AIDS awareness campaigns, please ask yourself honestly if you want this life for your son. That or at least allow your son to read it and make critical life decisions.

http://www.peoplecanchange.com
http://www.freetobeme.com

After reading many of these articles out of concern for family & friends, I would be in tears if one of my two sons ever faced that life.

As far as my life expierences are concerned, I've been not just aware of the outward public life but the very private personal lives. Being in a gay/lesbian bar at the age of 15 was a real eye-opener for me. That is just one experience out of many.
171 posted on 06/11/2003 7:43:05 PM PDT by kuma
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To: from occupied ga; Kevin Curry
Still waiting for a reply from KC? No surprise. He's just a troll trying to divide the Republican big tent. He and a few other DU-wannabes hop on here to slam Libertarians so the Dems have a chance at winning an election.

I found this thread through his forum link, and no surprise there. Any time there's a thread on here talking about pedophilia or some other perversity, he's on it. It's like a sexual weirdo thread checklist--but he inevitably justifies his constant presence there by discussing his personal theory that "Libertarians are behind it all!"

His interest in lewd and just plain immoral sexual practices sure is indicative of something--repression. Projecting that way is just plain sad. I certainly wouldn't recommend he go visit a member of the APA--they'll tell him he's normal. Thank God, though, that he's repressing his desires, because whatever he's got locked in that sick head of his is just too perverse to be let out.

I just hope it's not locked in your basement, too, Mr. Gumb, er, Curry.
172 posted on 06/11/2003 7:43:19 PM PDT by LibertarianInExile ("It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again." - Buffalo Kevin)
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To: Lazamataz
Well--Satan's a very neatly-fitting theory/actuality, ain'a?
173 posted on 06/11/2003 7:43:30 PM PDT by ninenot (Joe McCarthy was RIGHT, but Drank Too Much)
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To: saramundee
John Maynard Keynes was a homosexual, so who will ever claim that homosexuality makes one academically or even socially disabled. That does not mean that it is wrong, as is today so often claimed, to classify homosexual behavior as sexual deviance. Even in societies where, say pederasty, is social acceptable, it is circumscribed by well-defined rules of behavior. Socrates may have liked boys, but he never took one as a wife. One of his brightest students, Alcibiades, was scorned because he insisted on sleeping with grown men. In other words, bisexuality was normal, but not the behavior that one observes in San Francisco or "homosexual marriage." Since the purpose of marriage is to produce children, any Greek who stablished a household with his male lover would be regarded as an eccentric. Pederastic relationship had an educational function that--I dare say-homosexual scoutmasters would like to introducew to American society. But these ended when the "pupil" grew a full beard.
174 posted on 06/11/2003 7:55:37 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: MEG33
"Not going to happen...no way,no how~!!"

Don't be so sure about that.. it's all about who is in power ... and their agenda.

175 posted on 06/11/2003 11:41:19 PM PDT by Zipporah
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To: Labyrinthos
I agree .. I have a friend whose father-in-law sexually abused his own granddaughter.. he got NO jail time and had to go to therapy.. that was IT..nothing more. And a side thought.. and hey if it comes to fruition, this will save the Catholic church a lot of money..
176 posted on 06/11/2003 11:48:30 PM PDT by Zipporah
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To: murdoog
"You left out "fabulous"

Drat my incompetence.
177 posted on 06/11/2003 11:58:13 PM PDT by dsc
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To: Qwerty
You know? This is something that turns my stomach, but I do have to admit that I was wrong in the first post I made. Taking this off as a mental illness, gives those scumbags less of a chance of getting out, or off, due to claiming mental illness.

So, thank you for replying and getting me to thinking about this more! :o)
178 posted on 06/12/2003 12:03:39 AM PDT by Teetop (Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first.)
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To: RobbyS
"John Maynard Keynes was a homosexual, so who will ever claim that homosexuality makes one academically or even socially disabled."

Not a good example, in my book.

Japan has been trying to pull themselves out of depression using Keynesian economics for about 15 years now, and it just keeps getting worse. Keynes' economic theories, IMO, were as disordered as his sexuality.

If only they had heard of Mises and Hayek...
179 posted on 06/12/2003 12:20:36 AM PDT by dsc
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To: saramundee
"I do not know any gay people who are mentally disturbed."

You don't know any that aren't.

The manifestation of disordered behavior indicates the presence of the disorder. Homosexual behavior is disordered.
180 posted on 06/12/2003 12:22:11 AM PDT by dsc
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To: saramundee
"My son just graduated from high school. He was number 2 in his class. He was given a four year academic scholarship. Yeah, that's dysfunctional."

Ooooo, that just sank in.

Just graduated high school, so presumably he started manifesting SSAD symptoms before the age of 18.

Did you make any attempt to discover the identity of and report the predator who molested or seduced him and precipitated your son's SSAD?
181 posted on 06/12/2003 12:24:22 AM PDT by dsc
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To: LibertarianInExile; Kevin Curry
Any time there's a thread on here talking about pedophilia or some other perversity, he's on it. It's like a sexual weirdo thread checklist

Hehehe...how would you know Pot?

but he inevitably justifies his constant presence there by discussing his personal theory that "Libertarians are behind it all!"

Look Kevin, you’re the only one that thinks Liberaltarians and liberals are out to change society with their big experiment. Thank goodness that Liberaltarians are still the irrelevant 2% of the political population they always were, glad there’s still a little common sense left in this country.

182 posted on 06/12/2003 12:47:29 AM PDT by Clint N. Suhks
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To: kattracks
I truely believe we are all headed back to the times of the "wild west". These lunatics will gain protection by the government, but the decent people of this country will revert to protecting their own. And high time too. I pray my kids never face animals such as these. The offender(s) would never see the inside of a courtroom.
183 posted on 06/12/2003 1:06:27 AM PDT by Terridan (Please lord, protect our children... Where is Wyatt and Doc Holliday when ya need them? ;()
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To: dsc
Right or wrong, Keynes was a very bright lad, and his standing shows that "homophobia" was extinct in England by his generation. George Orwell commented in 1947 that it no longer required bravery for someone to identify himself as homosexual.
184 posted on 06/12/2003 1:06:32 AM PDT by RobbyS
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To: RobbyS
Something I've been thinking about: how come intelligent people are wrong so often? There even seem to be some kinds of error to which intelligent people are more prone than the dimmer bulbs.

Perhaps memory, verbal facility, and intelligence are different functions, but we assume that a good memory and verbal facility indicate the presence of intelligence.

As for the entirely normal aversion that normal people have for sexual deviants, was it the case that it was extinct in 1947, or that it had become dangerous to show it?
185 posted on 06/12/2003 1:16:22 AM PDT by dsc
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To: dsc
If people understood the IQ testing better they would know that while it can test overall intelligence it is also designed to show that people are not intelligent in all areas but each individual has talent in a few.

A person can have an average IQ and be extremely intelligent in one area.

However, intelligence does not mean someone cannot be mentally ill. Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Napolean etc... were all intelligent, but frighteningly so.

Einstein is an indisputable genius but his private life was equally dysfunctional.

Thomas Jefferson was intelligent but there is no debate his personal life was riddled with problems. He couldn't solve the problem of slavery in his own life and was unable to resolve it while in public office as well. Even though he knew it would result in a civil dispute eventually.

Often times I think that those who are pecularly talented are more inclined to be dysfunctional. It's as though they can only channel all their thoughts & energy into that one area.
186 posted on 06/12/2003 1:43:34 AM PDT by kuma
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To: LibertarianInExile; Kevin Curry
I think he misunderstands libertarians. They have a live and let live philosophy, but they also are strong advocates of protecting your family and your property. (not to mention gun ownership).

Scenario one - Liberal hears cry for help coming from daughter's bedroom and walks in on intruder. Liberal response - appeal to reason and plead with intruder not to hurt anyone.

Scenario two - Libertarian hears cry for help cominging from daughter's bedroom and walks in on intruder. Libertarian response - double tap, and maybe a couple more if the corpse is still twitching.

Granted there is a much more morally ambiguous case that made the news here a few months ago. 13 year old girl got (communication via internet) a 22 year old guy to sneak into her bedroom for sex while parents were home. Parents discovered this (what a surprise - some people are too dumb to do anything but dig ditches) Cops came and arrested 22 year old who was charged with child molestation. The DA told the media that it was pretty obvious that the girl was an active and willing participant in the whole thing and in fact it was her idea, and he regretted that he couldn't charge her with anything.

187 posted on 06/12/2003 3:57:18 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: kuma
I think of the difference between Washington and Hamilton. Hamilton was obviously tremendously more intellectual than Washington, yet without Washington Hamilton could never have succeeded. After Washington's death Hamilton blundered into a fight with Adams, a fight that not only cost Adams the presidency but put the government in the hands of Jefferson. I hate to quote Gore Vidal--incidentally another example of one who is too clever by half--but Hamilton and Aaron Burr were mortal enemies because they were so much alike. Neither had what the English call judgement although each was fertile in expedients.
188 posted on 06/12/2003 7:31:51 AM PDT by RobbyS
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Comment #189 Removed by Moderator

Comment #190 Removed by Moderator

To: Clint N. Suhks
Imagine. Whenever and wherever sexual perverts try to push their foul public agenda on the rest of America I show up and push back. That disturbs the liberals and libertarians who are straining with all their energy to open the sewage sluices.

Judged from their twisted and warped perspective, resisting moral rot must seem perverse indeed.

191 posted on 06/12/2003 10:09:18 AM PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: saramundee
Yeah, I've seen those "changed" homosexuals. They aren't changed.

Oh really, how many? I know two who've changed for many years with no regrets. And of course there are these myths.

I don't know why you're buying that myth.

No dear, the myth is yours and we’re sure one you need to hang on to to deal with the trauma from your poor child and uncle.

192 posted on 06/12/2003 10:21:59 AM PDT by Clint N. Suhks
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To: saramundee; dsc
dsc: Did you make any attempt to discover the identity of and report the predator who molested or seduced him and precipitated your son's SSAD?

saramundee: Ya know what? People like you are the ones who have problems. I won't even dignify your post with a response beyond this.

He didn’t learn his behavior on his own, it always starts with an older peer. But you can hide your head in the sand and pretend it didn’t happen, homosexual predators are not going away. Hope you don’t have anymore vulnerable kids.

193 posted on 06/12/2003 10:32:59 AM PDT by Clint N. Suhks
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To: Kevin Curry
Whenever and wherever sexual perverts try to push their foul public agenda on the rest of America I show up and push back.

Well listen here Kettle, your opinion makes you opinionated, you should live and let evil live, and you shouldn't comment on other's opinions.

Sincerely
Pot

194 posted on 06/12/2003 10:42:14 AM PDT by Clint N. Suhks
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To: LizardQueen
Species identity disorder is not listed, so far, aren't you glad?
195 posted on 06/12/2003 10:43:14 AM PDT by Old Professer
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To: L.N. Smithee
"Define "condone" -- What steps would the APA have to take to actually "condone" pedophilia, in your opinion?"

I think the APA would have to take the stance that not only is pedophilia not a mental illness, but that it was not harmful and/or may be beneficial to children. I realize that some have made this claim, but it is NOT a mainstream idea.

196 posted on 06/12/2003 10:57:21 AM PDT by Qwerty (Breakin' the LAW, Breakin the LAW!)
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To: saramundee
I would imagine your son spent many enjoyable visits to your uncle's house while he was growing up.
197 posted on 06/12/2003 11:02:39 AM PDT by Old Professer
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To: saramundee
I thought about emailing you and talking on a personal level more about myself and my own expierences. I've come to the conclusion that would be pointless and possibly only used against me in the future.

**I know it probably makes you feel better**

HIV can be carried for up to 10 years and the carrier not even be aware of it. With all the new medications people are now living 20 yrs or longer. Unfortunately I have to tell you that all you need is to give it some time. Unfortunately for me I've seen AIDS with my own eyes.

**For some reason you can't get beyond it.**

It's called facing the FACTS even when I don't want to. It's a result of caring TOO MUCH to be able to just stick my head in the sand and "pretend".

Everyone and I mean EVERYONE I've ever met that was gay/lesbian (or any sexual disorder for that matter) came from a dysfunctional family. You seem to think that careers and public achievements mean that one's family cannot be dysfunctional.

**As for my son, I am sure he will have a wonderful life. He's a wonderful human being.**

You seem to be thinking that I feel the need to personally attack your son. I don't. All of us have flaws. He's not a freak just someone with a sexual disorder.

**bigotry**

Name calling is all you have. That and all the activist propaganda you can get your hands on. Posting on this forum usually means for most people they can spot a leftist non-arguement. However, our own weaknesses often blind us in select areas.

**Bury your head in the sand**

I can tell by your replies that even if you read the information on the sites I provided you links to, you have chosen to bury your head in the sand and pretend a "gay" life is a happy life.
198 posted on 06/12/2003 12:23:43 PM PDT by kuma
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