Flush Toilets Called 'Environmental Disaster'

CNSNews.com ^ | 6/12/03 | Marc Morano

[kattracks]

CNSNews.com) - Forget the convenience and sanitation of the flush toilet that industrialized nations have enjoyed for most of the past century.

A growing number of environmentalists are now advocating the expanded use of compost or dry toilets worldwide to combat what they see as an international water crisis.

Proponents of dry toilets, set to convene at the first annual international Dry Toilet 2003 conference in Tampere, Finland, August 20-23, warn of "environmental disaster" if developing nations aspire to flush toilets so prevalent in the industrialized world.

Critics of the upcoming conference say the widespread use of dry toilets in the developing world is nothing more than a "celebration of primitivism" and call the flush toilet the "greatest public health advance in the modern era."

A waterless dry toilet, which generally costs about $2,000, collects human urine and feces and requires emptying by humans on a regular basis. Advocates claim the resulting matter can then be composted and used as fertilizer for food crops.

Larry Warnberg, a featured speaker at the conference, said China and other developing world nations cannot aspire to mimic the U.S. and Europe's reliance on modern flush toilets and the resultant sewage infrastructure.

"That is a wrong turn, and it will just be an environmental disaster. The same is true in Brazil and Africa. There are better choices," Warnberg told CNSNews.com. Warnberg, who will speak to the conference about "Reducing Regulatory Barriers to Composting Toilets," also markets manuals on how to build a do-it-yourself dry toilet.

Warnberg calls his toilet designs S.C.A.T., for Solar Composting Advanced Toilet.

Warnberg laments the widespread use of flush toilets in the industrialized nations of the U.S. and Europe, and he does not want to see the flush toilet adopted by the developing nations in Africa and South America.

"I think it is a mistake to inflict that convenience on a developing county and cost without realizing what the consequences are," Warnberg added.

'Celebration of primitivism'

But critics bristle at the notion that the developing world cannot aspire to the standards of the industrialized world.

"The dry or compost toilet might suit those who wish to drop out of highly developed industrial society, but to advocate them as a solution for developing countries is totally unacceptable and represents little more than a celebration of primitivism," said Ceri Dingle of the British-based charitable education group Worldwrite, which focuses on development issues and sponsors international student exchange programs.

"Thirteen percent of Africans have a sewage connection; that is, a flushing toilet leading to a sewage system, while for North America, the figure is 100 percent and Europe 92 percent," said Dingle. "This is what the developing world aspires to, not make do and mend."

Dingle's group sponsored a campaign on June 7 that included a march by "volunteers from developing countries who want their desire for piped water, flushing loos (toilets) and modern facilities taken seriously."

"The preoccupation with dry toilets is also an anti-human prejudice based on complete panics and irrational fears about planetary water shortages," Dingle added.

Dennis Avery, director of global food issues for the Hudson Institute, agreed with Dingle and was blunt in his defense of the modern flush toilet.

"It's one of the greatest public health advances in the modern era. It's not only convenient, but it is also safer" Avery told CNSNews.com. Avery said the public benefits from the lower incidence of diseases like cholera and typhoid since the widespread use of modern flush toilets and sewage treatment systems.

The flush toilet is not even responsible for significant water usage, according to Avery.

"You can't solve the water problem by taking care of something that is only 5 to 10 percent of the usage," Avery explained. Agricultural use of water accounts for about 70 percent of worldwide water usage, and industry accounts for about 23 percent, according to Avery.

'A matter of education'

Dry toilet advocates claim the devices have advantages but concede there is the issue of routine emptying of excrement from the toilets.

Warnberg's website explains that the dry toilets need to be emptied at 6- to 12-month intervals, "depending on loading," and his design includes the use of earthworms to "provide mixing and aeration."

Warnberg concedes the emptying procedures may make some people squeamish. "It takes more responsibility than a flush toilet, there is no getting around it. Some systems are easier to use than others. It's largely a matter of education," Warnberg said.

But one past user of a dry toilet chronicled his negative experiences in an essay published on this website called "The Trouble With Composting Toilets." The essay, written by Dave Keenan, details his problems with insects and odors that his dry toilet produced in his home.

After having decided that "Thomas Crapper's flush toilet was a fiendish invention," Keenan bought a dry toilet and initially "basked in the warm glow of having done the right thing for the environment" before encountering a problem.

"No matter what I tried over the years, there were always times when one could not lift the lid without several flies lifting off and heading for the kitchen," Keenan wrote.

"Even if I was to be convinced that there was little health danger from flies coming out of the toilet and landing on food, e.g. drosophila (fruit flies) go straight for the fruit bowl, how would I convince my guests that it was ok?" Keenan added.

After four years of living with the dry toilet, Keenan gave up and installed a flush toilet in his home.

"So, from my experience, I cannot recommend composting toilets to anyone, unless they have a serious water shortage, and they live in a non-urban area, and they locate it outside their insect-screened house envelope (on a verandah would be fine)," he wrote.

'Dangerous, dangerous, dangerous'

Another purported benefit of dry toilets is the ability to use the composted excrement for fertilizing human food crops.

"A proper dry toilet system with the recycling of the urine and the feces as a compost product, brings more productivity to crops and improves the land quality," Tittiina Repka, conference secretary of the upcoming Dry Toilet conference, told CNSNews.com.

Repka believes cultural taboos in many parts of the world will have to be changed for people to accept using their feces and urine as fertilizer for food crops.

"People seem to think that human [manure] is something really dirty and should not go into any kind of food circulation systems," Repka said.

But not everyone sees the use of composted human feces on food as a panacea.

"It's dangerous, dangerous, dangerous. You are talking about all kinds of bacterial issues; human manure has human pathogens in it." Avery countered.

Despite claims by advocates of dry toilets that excrement is safe for use as fertilizer if it's properly composted, Avery remained skeptical.

"In labs, under ideal conditions, human manure can be safely disinfected. But manure in the hands of average people out there day after day, time after time, you are taking about enormous risk," Avery said.

"Can you imagine a block full of homes, each of them dumping their wastes in their backyard this way; the odor, the disgust, the public health risk?" Avery asked.

Dingle of Worldwrite does not see the need to even contemplate using your homegrown feces for fertilizer.

"Since chemical fertilizers have massively increased the productivity of commercialized agriculture, there is no evidence to suggest we even need to concern ourselves with preserving and using human waste since we have developed much healthier alternatives," Dingle said.

Avery predicted that dry toilets would ultimately go down the drain.

"If you didn't have to handle [composted feces], if you didn't have to put this on your food crops, if you didn't have to accept the odors and the filth and the disgust, maybe it then it would sell," Avery said.

See Related Article:
Introduction of the Flush Toilet Deplored at Earth Summit (Aug. 20, 2002)

E-mail a news tip to Marc Morano.

Send a Letter to the Editor about this article.

[kattracks]

Dry toilet advocates claim the devices have advantages but concede there is the issue of routine emptying of excrement from the toilets.

Maybe thee environmentalists can start an organization composed of volunteers from their ranks to do the emptying. It shouldn't really bother them, they are used to shoveling bulls... um, nevermind.

[Barn Owl]

This sounds like a bunch of crap to me.

Barn Owl

[pcx99]

Warnberg calls his toilet designs S.C.A.T., for Solar Composting Advanced Toilet.

Uh... Well... I guess there's not much you can really add to this save that the name pretty much conveys everything you need to know.

[Caipirabob]

Time to buy more ammo.

[raisincane]

Way back when, they were called "Honey Dippers". Good job for these whackos!

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

I want a toilet that flushes! When I have enough money, I hope to go to Canada and get one. Here is a simple suggestion of what we could do, however. Since the enviro-wackos have already immobilized most of our toilets anyway, we should use Clinton pots [formerly called chamber pots] and have a special, metal container to mass collect the waste. The container should be on sturdy wheels, possibly with a trailor hitch, because when it's close to full, we wheel the contents to the nearest enviro-wacko neighbor and allow our enviro-friendly neighbor to flush it for us. Our neighbor could even be paid what would normally go to the septic tank guy. But anyone who doesn't pay taxes can have the service for free.

One problem, cleaning up the Clinton pot. It's kind of like trying to cover up all the Clinton crimes. Something gets dirty in the smelly process.

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

"...It shouldn't really bother them, they are used to shoveling bulls... um, nevermind..."

Uups. You said it better and before me. Sorry. Fun thread. =]

[Joe Boucher]

The flush toilets mandated by the govt are a disaster. The mandated 1.6 gallon flush couldn't flush a rat turd down the toilet.
When I move I'm going to the Home Depot and buying a couple of new toilets and taking my old trusty 5 gallon flushers with me.

[MetalHeadConservative35]

Maybe thee environmentalists can start an organization composed of volunteers from their ranks to do the emptying. It shouldn't really bother them, they are used to shoveling bulls... um, nevermind.

ok im sorry i cant resist

Here I Sit Same As Ever Took A Dump,Pulled The Lever The Toilet Clogged..The Water Flowed Look Out World,Its A Motherload

once again sorry but i couldnt resist lol

[xm177e2]

Environmentalists... snicker...

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

"Time to buy more ammo."

We could take some of Saddam's hollow ammo and load it with Clinton. That was the true reason for such weaponry anyway, to help us out.

[johniegrad]

I have a better idea. Let's just eliminate running water.

[dawn53]

The flush toilets mandated by the govt are a disaster. The mandated 1.6 gallon flush couldn't flush a rat turd down the toilet. When I move I'm going to the Home Depot and buying a couple of new toilets and taking my old trusty 5 gallon flushers with me.

At our house we've figured this must be the government's logic for the low flow toilets.

Since it takes 1.6 gal. to flush, but you have to flush 3 times instead of just once, you are still saving .2 gal. per bathroom use. (end/sarcasm)

[weegee]

It's odd that the same lefties who claim that they want the government out of their bedrooms (it's not there in reality) demand its presence in the bathroom.

[Free the USA]

fyi

[weegee]

I have a better idea. Let's just eliminate running water.

If Albert Gore Junior had been a "native American", his Indian name would have been Running Water (remember his incontinent experience with that iced tea at the fund raising meeting?).

[AdmSmith]

It's one of the greatest public health advances in the modern era. It's not only convenient, but it is also safer" Avery told CNSNews.com. Avery said the public benefits from the lower incidence of diseases like cholera and typhoid since the widespread use of modern flush toilets and sewage treatment systems.

Affirmative. But a sewage treatment system is required, that is why there are a lot of diseases when they flush everything into the sea or into a river. A very effective way of spreading bugs.

Environmentalists can be flushed with the other crap.

[mc5cents]

If it's brown, flush it down;
If it's yellow, let it melllow.

[Rodney King]

What the enviro wackos ought to do to advance this is to supply free beer to men, as I am much more likely to pee in the bushes when drunk than when sober.

[The Wizard]

I just got two new Kohler's and they're great, even with the reduced water tank.....it seems that if you get a new model, scientifically designed for less water, it's works well....

[Bella_Bru]

The flush toilets mandated by the govt are a disaster. The mandated 1.6 gallon flush couldn't flush a rat turd down the toilet.

Most people say they need to flush their "low flush, envrio friendly" toilets more times each trip than they had to with the old 5 gallon standard. Seems that those low flush beauties might not be doing the job, if you get my meaning.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Speaking of "scat," could small household pets get themselves trapped in this apparatus?

[libertylover]

Proponents of dry toilets, set to convene at the first annual international Dry Toilet 2003 conference

Now here's a group of people with waaaaaaaaaay too much time on their hands.

[JudgemAll]

This sounds like a bunch of crap to me.

Of course, that's the whole point, no toilets, eat crap.

1000s of years of progress in hygiene and home and community environment must be destroyed for the sake of making man participate in the natural selection process, leaving with his own feces.

If the environment cannot be submited to adaptation to man, man must be an animal while the ecoterrorists will enjoy walking naked.

[JudgemAll]

Dry toilets? Euuh, they have these in Europe and the toxic fumes coming out are a health hazard. What was that, last month these kids in Kenya actually died in a latrine because of the fumes.

[neb52]

If I may share a story from my Boy Scout council here in Fort Worth, TX. At one of our main camps that is used for summer camps, we have latrines in each camp. These latrines are simply a big hole in the ground with thick concrete walls(so not to harm the water table) and a wooden shelter on top. Well these are honky dory for us boy scouts, but with parents night and with the increase number of women that now participate in the troops, we have flush toliets at the camp in various places. Of course the toliets that were installed are the 1.6gallon tanks. We had to put signs on the tanks of the toliets that read please hold handle down for ten seconds when flushing. This is due to that the kids not wanting to use the latrines anymore, would flush the toliets just like the 5gallon tanks back at home. Causing the toliets to clog up and little boys usually will not tell anybody about it. So more boys use it and use it, thus by the end of the week you have a toliet filled(if not over flowing) of excrement. Since the 1.6gal does not provide enough water, we found that this is remeded by holding the handle for at least ten seconds to allow enough water to flow through. Thus eliminating the whole purpose of the 1.6gal toliets.

We have not installed anymore flushing toliets in years, since we cannot get ahold of the 5gal toliets anymore. But the problem is that everybody wants the flushing toliets instead of the latrines.

At Big Bend National Park they have these dry toliets( I assume they are the same as is in this article) that is like a latrine, but has a solar panel that dries the box out and then a helicopter picks it up to be dumped out somewhere. This is great for outdoor places, but at home give me a break. I image this article is only the begining. you know they have been trying to get us to cut down on the number of showers to save water, this way we can be like the more sophisticated and highly cultured FRENCH!!!!

[neb52]

Oh, so if we are suppose to dump these dry toliets out, does this mean we will be bringing the piss boy back from Mel Brooks' History of the World.

"Oh Piss Boy!"

[germanicus]

A waterless dry toilet, which generally costs about $2,000

Why is it whenever modern technology is removed from something, the price goes up? This dry toilet will be an ecological disaster when everyone figures out that storm sewers are a great place to dump their waste.

[LRS]

It's so clever. I jump in through the hole in the top.

"> I scratch all I want and the litter stays in. And oh... it's so private!

"> I jump out. The built-in tracking mat cleans my paws. How helpful!

And I'm off! I can't smell anything, can you?

[LadyDoc]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005MF9T/muttcatscom/102-2122935-3476953

should solve the problem.

Except it's a bit small for my tush...

[BlueLancer]

""Oh Piss Boy!"

"Oui, m'seur?"
Yes, and lots of it.

[RogueIsland]

The essay, written by Dave Keenan, details his problems with insects and odors that his dry toilet produced in his home.

Ummm, there's a reason that outhouses were built outside the home, dude.

[RushLake]

Maybe thee environmentalists can start an organization composed of volunteers from their ranks to do the emptying. It shouldn't really bother them, they are used to shoveling bulls... um, nevermind.

Spot on as usual, the envirostalinists need to lead the way. In Michigan, Governor Jenny Mulhern has formed a committee to pontificate to the rest of us on the evils of "urban sprawl". The group includes former RINO governor Bill Milliken and other lefties. They want us all to move back to Detroit, Flint, and other decayed crime ridden corrupt cities. I wrote a letter to the leftist Detroit News suggesting that Mulhern, Milliken et al lead the way back to Detroit as an example to the rest of us. The News didn't print it of course.

[judicial meanz]

I really wonder if any of these idiots involved in this anti-flush toilet movement ever grew up in a home without indoor plumbing? Fighting snakes on the "path", freezing your can off on cold nights, and all the other assorted hassles involved.

If not, maybe they should spend a week or two with chamber pots and outhouses just to get some perspective.

I like my flush toilet. I earned it. I dont care how many gallons of water it wastes, I am keeping it. I wish it used a lot more water, like the older ones they were successful in banning.

Enough of these liberals. I cant even use the bathroom in peace!

[wireplay]

The Toto SuperMax low-flow toilets are great and really work. They cost around $350 each and were recommended by my plumber. Not a single problem yet since we replaced our original low-flows with these bad boys.

You can also modify the ones at the camp to get higher flow rates. Use a ping pong ball or a bobber and tie it to the rubber thing that controls the water flow. It will cause a lot more water to come through. Adjust as necessary.

[Thebaddog]

I used one of those solar dumpers out west on a hike, and you have never smelled a smell like that thing. Send the environuts to that outhouse and lock the door behind them.

[jimt]

Proponents of dry toilets, set to convene at the first annual international Dry Toilet 2003 conference in Tampere, Finland, August 20-23, warn of "environmental disaster" if developing nations aspire to flush toilets so prevalent in the industrialized world.

Anybody know who pays for this idiocy? "Dry Toilet 2003"?

[jammer]

Detroit is not a city. It's a third world country.

[Trueblackman]

????

[Tijeras_Slim]

If toilets are banned, what will my dogs frink out of? :-D

[openotherend]

Environmental wackos flow down hill. Payday is Friday. I think I've got it.

[FourPeas]

first annual international Dry Toilet 2003 conference

I think we need a logo contest for this to help them out with their t-shirt design.

[SendShaqtoIraq]

"When I move I'm going to the Home Depot and buying a couple of new toilets and taking my old trusty 5 gallon flushers with me."

Buy the power flusher toilets. They do use a lot less water, but still work because they use air pressure. My cousin has had one for years, and my aunt just bought one. They aren't much more expensive that the regular toilets either.

[FourPeas]

Here are the keynote speakers at the conference and the title of their addresses:

Kaarin Taipale, Finland: "What is the colour of sustainable development"

Jan-Olof Drangert, Sweden: "A history of mental views on the re-use of human-rerived nutrients" The last part of the abstract states: The last part of the paper will focus on views among residents to eating food produced with the help of human-derived fertilisers.

Ron Sawyer, Mexico: "Sanitation as if it really mattered: Getting toilets out of the (water) closet and into the loop"

Martin Oldenburg, Germany: "Toilets for the re-use of natural resources - Examples and Applications"

[Straight Vermonter]

Here in vermont there are a lot of back to earth types including those with no electricity at all in their homes. Now if that is their choice that is fine I don't have a problem at all but I can see the out cry against toilets bginning.

We were house shopping a while back and found what looked like a very nice home at considerably under market value. After speaking to the home owner we learned it was because there were no conventional toilets in the home. The toilets dumped into a big vat in the basement which had to be shoveled out from time to time. Where it was to be shoveled to, I had no idea.

[IFly4Him]

This is series... I'm off to flush the toilet...

[FrankR]

Isn't it funny how when these tree-huggers have something to SELL, all of a sudden they can find numerous 'ENVIRONMENTAL' fault with successful methods that have been used for hundreds of years?

They obviously don't remember the stench, flies, and other problems with OUTDOOR TOILETS...or having to go out and empty the "slop jar" at 8am when it's -10 degrees outside.

This guy is trying to get attention, and get the water toilet outlawed (a la Freon) so he can sell his product (a la new Freon).

This will be about as popular as "NEW Coke" was.

[Mixed Grill]

> "Thirteen percent of Africans have a sewage
> connection; that is, a flushing toilet leading to a
> sewage system, while for North America, the figure
> is 100 percent and Europe 92 percent," said Dingle.

1) Where's the missing 8% in Europe? France? Just go on the sidewalk, I guess.

2) I giggle like a schoolgirl that someone named "dingle" is talking about topics scatological.

[RightOnline]

"...the first annual international Dry Toilet 2003 conference in Tampere, Finland..."

...........now there's a hoppin' conference that's a "don't miss"....................put on yer party hats, boys....................

[ChicagoGuy]

If they outlaw toilets, only outlaws will have toilets.


If they wanna outlaw flush toilets, they're gonna have to pry mine from my cold, dead butt.