Iranian Students are reportedly holding 3 Hebollah hostage demanding release of 80 students

Interview with Iranians in Tehran | 6.13.2003 | DoctorZin

[CyberAnt]

It was reported on FOX News - it was an official statement given by Ari Fleischer directly from the President.

[jabotinsky]

look i agree that radical jihadism in the ME makes secular democarcy tough to instill.

but take it from me, Iran is an entirely separate case that can not be simply thrown in with the rest of the arab mideast.

first, as you know iranians are not arabs. they are mostly persians with azaris etc making up the rest of the populace. Persia has a long and impressive history BEFORE jihadism was forceably imposed on it by the invading arab armies. many persian scholars still bristle at the arabs for this and as you know before '79 iran and the arabs werent too chummy.

i will leave you with a personal anecdote from the mid 80's when i was youngster 6 or 7 playing soccer in the streets of tehran with my buddies. I was the only Jewish kid on the block and the rest were muslims, with some bahais and christians, zorastarians. we lived in a middle class neighborhood. and while most people were devout in the religious belief, THEY were not jihadi. its hard to uinderatnd unless you have seen it for yourself, the kids I played with couldnt give a rats ass about the filastin indoctrination at school, they were more captivatred by the "thriller album" that was just out.

dont get me wrong, after 9/11 we should NEVER let our gaurd down against that part of the world, back stabbing is routine there. but at the same time, we hinder our own interests if we assume ALL of them are jihadis.
they are not, and we should exploit this fully to our advantage.

[cake_crumb]

"There AIN'T NO WAY islam is going to allow a secular democracy to exist in its midst."

Turkey did....for a long time. Turkey was the only secular Islamic democracy. Thus, it was ignored by the Arab world - and most of the West, which preferred holding up IRAN as a symbol of Islamic democracy. No telling what the government of Turkey might morph into now. IIRC, the public voted in Sharia law. We can HOPE they'll retain most of their original legal and social structure.

[LibWhacker]

I agree with you 100%. I've come more and more to view Iraq as key to the region, certainly not Iran, with one caveat: Iran must be made to understand that further support of terrorism is unacceptable and it must be deprived of its aspirations for WMD soon, simply because it is so close to fully developing them. IMO, this is unlikely to occur without force.

Other than that, the devil with them. They're not Arabs. They're not predominantly Sunni. They are predominantly Shiite, however, and therefore will never be reliable allies in this fight against islamic terrorism.

I'm very, very pleased with the outcome in Iraq. It's quite a prize and I think it'll be viewed by historians as the turning point in our war against terrorism. Iran is almost a footnote.

BTW, does anybody know if it is true that Ghengis Khan wiped out all the original Persians? In other words, there are no real Persians left today; all the so-called Persians of today are really the descendants of invaders and other interlopers. (Well, that was a topic of discussion a few months ago, but I never saw the conclusion of it. Sounds a bit unlikely to me. Just wonder if it was ever settled to anyone's satisfaction.)

[cake_crumb]

"nothing is easy in the ME, it is a treacherous place."

Yes, it is. Your arguments are good. I was trying to point out that you are oversimplifying.

"unlike iraq, iran is more homogeneous and better educated overall."

IRAQ was supposed to be well educated, and they stole containors of cesium, dumped them out and used them for food and beverage storage.

"I was proposing is for the US military to bloody the noses of the jihadis. here is a perfect opportunity to put tomohawks (sp?) to use, laser guided missiles (amen), etc etc. the grassroots for a change from theoCRAPic rule to civilized democracy in iran is infinitely more developed than in iraq.

Look...that is not a justifiable case to make in extending military action to Iran when we have not yet sevured Iraq and jihadis are still flooding into Afghanistan from all over the Arab world. We're not ignoring Iran, as some have speculated. That would be suicidal in terms of US national interest. Likewise, we're not ignoring Syria. Or Lebanon, Egypt, Libya or ANY part of the 'Arab world'.

In Iraq, microbuses loaded with 150 women and children purposely run US military checkpoints in the hopes of being MARTYRED. Looting of museums is staged for propaganda value. Our troops are accused of fighting and dying just to look uo the skirts of Muslims women. All in the hope of raising the banner of the Kahlifah over more and more of the world, and all dutifullay reported ad nauseum by an enthralled press.

Misdirection within misdirection, within misdirection.

We've got to do things at the pace we feel is in the best interests in terms of security. US security AND that of the rest of the world. We are already within the belly of the Beast, and have no intention of moving at anyone's pace but our own.

[cake_crumb]

"I agree with you 100%. I've come more and more to view Iraq as key to the region, certainly not Iran, with one caveat: Iran must be made to understand that further support of terrorism is unacceptable and it must be deprived of its aspirations for WMD soon, simply because it is so close to fully developing them. IMO, this is unlikely to occur without force"

Actually, we also must never forget that Iran WANTS to be key.

As a seperate race, the Persians may be diluted, but so are all races when you get down to it. Races are nothing more than a designation for breeds of the same species, after all. However, the Persians are still very, VERY much with us today.

[LibWhacker]

So what's your opposition to secular, reformist student protesters, then?

I'm not opposed to them.

I'm not opposed to the Lakers winning the playoffs next year, either. Doesn't mean I'm going to get out on the court and try to help 'em win.

All I'm saying is it doesn't follow that we should bend over backwards to help the Iranian hooligans students. Ordinarily, we might have some interest if they could offer us a credible guarantee that there was something in it for us. But that's just it: An Iranian guarantee is about as valuable as a guarantee from Arafat himself, utterly worthless.

[jabotinsky]

you have made several excellent points re the need for patience etc

and granted i am admittedly an impatient type of guy when i see a bully around -take the sob head on..
so i wonder if we are not making a huge mistake as the longer we wait to act the closer iran is to the bomb. once they go nuclear, we are screwed.
they will use it. u can bet on it.

would love to read your response,
jabo

[harpo11]

Bumping for FReedom!!! Perhaps, President Bush is and has been discreetly working to help those in Iran who are brave and courageous enough to stand for freedom and liberty and throw the brutal yoke of tyranny off their land.

[Lady In Blue]

Will you please let up on President Bush!!! He has a full plate. How would you like it to hear comments from the peanut gallery trying to tell you what to do when you've already got your hands full,for pete's sake!

[DoctorZIn]

Iwant to post an update on the main story.
Apparently the student movement took three Hezbollah prisioner and were demanding the release of the 80 students that had at that point been arrested by the regime.

The story continues that memebers of the Iranian Parliment met with the students and convinced them that this was not going to help their cause and thus they released the prisioners.

I will keep posted on further updates.

[mvpel]

I spell it 7.62x39.

[freedom44]

I'm sorry you say, but you're one of the most ignorant so-called 'conservatives' on iran. I SERIOUSLY doubt you're conservative, but let's move on.

President Bush supports Iranians for some specific reason. I know you probably think our President is 'stupid', but he's actually brilliant and knows what he's doing.

444 days?
That had alot to do with our overthrow of a Secular pro-demoracy government on Iran for a dictatorship in 1953.

Both US and Iran have made their mistakes, but please don't act so ignorant.. at least learn something before ranting and raving.

[freedom44]

Were the Iranians 'druken' in 1953 when 85 percent of Iranians wanted a Secular democractic republic under Dr. Mossadeqh which was overthrown by mi6 and cia?

Guess that drunken secularist society wasn't good enough.

nor do you respect 2,500 years of Secularist Persian history?

read a book, it might help..

[freedom44]

Liberaljacker,

How dare you insinuate that Genghis Khan wiped out the Persians?

How pathetic can you get?

[TomB]

Freedom, have you read this yet?

If so, what do you think?

[LibWhacker]

Go back to iran. They deserve you.

[freedom44]

You're a lone 'loser' in a system filled with thousands of people in support of Iranian students.

I seriously doubt you're conservative.

[LibWhacker]

Go wash your feet in the urinal, raghead. You know NOTHING.

[SauronOfMordor]

They're all muslims, get it? I swear, I do not want us to lift a finger to help them. Bush is right to ignore them.

The impression I get is that the Iranian students are against the Mullahs and their control over the country. This, by definition, makes the rebellion a rebellion against Islam itself.

Am I correct in this, DoctorZIn? That the rebellion seems a rebellion of people who are tired of rigid Islam, who are tired of living under Sharia law, and who would prefer to live more like the West?