Catholic bishop of Phoenix arrested

FOXNEWS | 6/16/2003 | John Gibson

[sinkspur]

Roman Catholic bishop John O'Brien was arrested for leaving the scene of a fatal hit-and-run accident, and his car impounded.

[FITZ]

Maybe a few are guilty of some unfortunate Irish jokes,

My Irish grandfather told the best Irish jokes ---he knew every Pat and Mike joke ---jokes aren't hate no matter what political correctness says. I don't understand the defensiveness ----obviously this bishop doesn't represent the Church but the fact that he's still a bishop is a very bad reflection on the current hierarchy. The American Catholic Church has some serious problems and they need to fix them. The Church will survive this fool.

[Centurion2000]

They'd better not let this guy walk on bail. Flight risk as I'm sure the Vatican would protect him if he made it there.

[Catspaw]

Arizona does not go on daylight savings time. I can tell you that at 8:30PM in So Cal, the sun has set about 20 minutes prior and it is nearly dark. So, by that same time, I suspect it is completely dark in Phoenix.

That may well be so, but how could he not notice the damage to the car?

 

Rob Schumacher/The Arizona Republic Bishop O'Brien's car is towed from his north Phoenix home.

[Aloysius]

So, by that same time, I suspect it is completely dark in Phoenix.

OK. Thanks.

[Endeavor]

I agree wholeheartedly with each of your points. And so would my Irish grandmother.

[habs4ever]

That settles it.Nice pic..can't fudge this one now.

[tracer]

D. None of the above....

[sinkspur]

Sinkspur, I've appreciated your posts for some time, but lately you've taken an immoderate, even bitter tone.

Bitter tone? Because I've opposed bishops who've covered for pederasts, and even participated in moving them to new, fertile ground?

I have a bitter tone about this because I don't buy that a man of God is unaware that he hit a human being (there was windshield damage, for heaven's sake, and dogs don't cause windshield damage), and I'm curious as to why he had to be tracked down like a common criminal.

You're dreaming up excuses for the guy.

[CdMGuy]

I was just replying to someone who did not realize that Arizona does not go on DST. That person thought it was still light.

As for me, there is no question that the Bishop should have stopped, especially when I read in the article that his windshield was damaged, as you were so kind to post the picture for us.

Dark or light, when you hit a person or animal, unless it is a glancing blow, you know you hit or ran over something. It is apparent that the Bishop had something to hide. As a Catholic, it saddens me that a high church official would place his personal situation above an injured party. This man seems to have lost all sense of goodness.

[TBall]

Wow, I finally click on this thread and I'm surprised that the Bishop is not being charged with child molestation. Only hit and run what a relief

[autoresponder]

- "or Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker, etc.

56 posted on 06/16/2003 6:01 PM EDT by Diddle E. Squat

- That's two Protestants involved in maritial infidelities, more can be found, but not countless hundreds of homosexual predators of young male teenagers that have been and are countueing to be covered up by their superiors, the church, politicians, and the judicial system.

- If you can find a list of hundreds of that criminally attacked minors boys thru NEXUS, feel free to post it here on FR.

- The Catholic church has an abiding cancer within and continues to cover up for priests and shuffle them around and even out of the country.

- "Suicide is painless,
- it brings on many changes..."

- Defending the indefenseable only indicts yourself; just as Islam has become a mockery and an instrument of insane savage subhumans operating on a level below that of early primates by cloning themselves into copies of their crazed founder, it is possible for any religion to throw itself into the sewers of denial and immorality.

- Face reality; demand change and clean out your septic tank or continue to lose membership and new moral prospects to lead your religion.

- Denial is a hideous joke...

[Catspaw]

I didn't know what the cops had when they arrested the Bishop, but the damage to the windshield is substantial and unmistakeable.

And this update. The Bishop was taken to the hospital for treatment for high blood pressure.

Shortly after 1:30 p.m., the bishop left in an unmarked police car. Authorities said he was under arrest and faces one count of leaving the scene of a fatal accident, a Class 4 felony. Before authorities could book him, O'Brien experienced high blood pressure and had to be transported from Madison Street Jail to St. Joseph's Hospital and Medical Center. http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0616obrien-fatality-ON.html

[B-Chan]

By what method do you tell fiction from non-fiction, "Honey"?

[FITZ]

lately you've taken an immoderate, even bitter tone.

Isn't that sort of the same immoderate tone many of us Americans took with Clinton? Just because he was an American president, what he did as president was out and out immoral and wrong. There was no defending him --- if a foreigner would say "your president is a very immoral man, he lies, commits perjury, rapes and should be removed from office", wouldn't we all have agreed? I know the bishop isn't as bad as Clinton but there is no way he can be defended. He's an insult to the religion.

[B-Chan]

Your grade:
F

The correct answer is C.

As in “See me after class”.

[Servant of the Nine]

That is Maricopa County, Sheriff Joe Arpaio.
The one with the tent city County Jail.

Mighty hot there in the summer.
Green Balony.
Pink Underwear.

Perhaps he will receive a call to minister to sweaty men in pink underwear.

This indictment is just a place holder till they sort out a Vehicular Homicide charge.

So9

[JoeFromCA]

This guy should be a poster boy for the failings of the roman catholic church. I was in Arizona last week and the local news was non-stop about this turkey and the DA's success in nailing him for harboring abusive priests. This bishop or whatever he calls himself had the gall to go on TV and specifically repudiate the agreement he had signed admitting his guilt!! He said he had gone to Washington and met with the pope' s US rep and the pope (speaking thru this rep) had told him to tell the DA he answered to the pope, not the DA.

It's no surprise to me, having seen the lying .... on TV, that he would continue his criminal career. Hopefully he'll be put away for the rest of his life.

[Endeavor]

Clearly, with more precision than you're used to.

[sinkspur]

This indictment is just a place holder till they sort out a Vehicular Homicide charge.

If O'Brien knew Reed, then I'd agree.

But it'll be tough to get anything more than manslaughter out of this.

[Servant of the Nine]

That may well be so, but how could he not notice the damage to the car?

The Shape of the impact in the glass and the bloody splotch on the roof above look like the guy was flipped head first into the windshield and then over the car.

So9

[B-Chan]

How rude.

Let's hear your answer: where did the Bible come from? How do we know that the books in the Bible today are all divinely inspired Scripture, and who got to make that decision?

And -- more importantly -- by what authority did they decide?

[JoeFromCA]

It just occurred to me that the same Mariposa Cty DA who nailed this guy for harboring abusive priests (and whom the bishop dissed on TV last week) will now be prosecuting him for manslaughter/murder/felony hit and run. This perp is REALLY toast. The only party I feel sorry for, of course, is the guy whom the bishop killed, and his family.

The roman catholic church better get its checkbook out again. Maybe the pope and the vatican could contribute this time?

[saradippity]

We don't have daylight savings time in Arizona. I predict there will be much more to this story.

[Servant of the Nine]

How do we know that the books in the Bible today are all divinely inspired Scripture, and who got to make that decision?

And -- more importantly -- by what authority did they decide?

The Emperor Constantine in fact made the decision, at a time when he was not even baptized into the faith.

His authority was the combined legions of the Roman Empire.

So9

[xJones]

A similar thing happened to me. I reasoned I'd struck a large dog and kept going.

Did the large dog crack your windshield? When the object hits the windshield, even in the dark, you know what you've hit.

[CCWoody]

So this is the only way we can get rid of these losers? ~ RobbyS

Some of us had this thing called a Protestant Reformation.

Woody.

[Endeavor]

Look, I don't know what your problem is - I don't see the Catholic Church as infallible. You do. You've made your point.

You aren't going to change my mind. Your behavior certainly doesn't entice me to be interested in your point of view, and I doubt that many others find your points salient, or even clever.

Your theological view is not the point of this thread.

[george wythe]

What a sad episode.

As a Catholic, I'm hurt to find out a minister of the gospel did not stop to help an accident victim, or at least, to call for help.

What happened to the Good Samaritan example to help people injured on the road?

[JoeFromCA]

It also just occurred to me that in state prison this bishop will get a dose of the abuse the priests he criminally harbored were handing out to children in their care. Again, very sad and a tragedy for the victim, but certainly poetic justice for the bishop.

[CCWoody]

Or, worse, he didn't know he'd hit somebody. Or, somebody else was in the car with him and he doesn't want anybody to find out about it.

Just speculating here why a bishop would hide. ~ sinkspur

You see, if one of us Protestants had suggested that maybe the bishop had someone in the car with him (I made this same suggestion to several over email) I expect that we would have been kicked off of FR faster than a pederast could have found a tender young victim.

Here's another suggestion: perhaps the bishop is just plain evil.

Woody.

[gcruse]

I'm sick to death of these people. Sick!

Just another reason to home church.

[george wythe]

where did the Bible come from?

Which books are inspired, this I know,
Because Martin Luther told me so.
Only sixty six belong,
Deuterocanonicals were too long

[RobRoy]

>>Would we be seeing this on Fox News if the driver had been one of us? Somehow, I don't think so...and sadly, it could just as easily have been one of us.<<

No.

Because one of us would have stopped. A lot of people are missing the point here. His crime was not hitting a j-walker. If he had stopped, he would have no charges against him, unless he had some other, as yet unknown, crime from which he was running (drunk; girlfriend with him, etc.)

The reason he is in trouble is that it appears that he left the scene.

Remember, when you hit a J-walker, it's not your fault. You are the victim.

Oh, and if the windshield was broken, any - I repeat, ANY - reasonable person would stop, get out, and see what the heck it was that he just hit. That is, unless he was really drunk or had something else to hide.

[ultima ratio]

That said, there was nothing priestlike in this bishop's behavior. Why is this so often the case? What's the sickness behind these symptoms?

[Diddle E. Squat]

I was being sarcastic. Throw the book at the guy.

[sinkspur]

Here's another suggestion: perhaps the bishop is just plain evil.

He very well could be. He's certainly cowardly, and somehow thinks he's bulletproof after this "plea deal" with the Maricopa DA.

He reminds me of Edwin Edwards, perennial felon and former governor of Louisiana.

[CCWoody]

Your grade:
F
The correct answer is C.

As in “See me after class”.


Gee, you would have figured that the Catholic Church could have at least autographed the books of the Bible so that there would be no doubt that the "Church" invented the Bible. Of course, the rest of us who are not under some kind of delusion of granduer realize that the books of the Bible were written by various people of various educations and backgrounds through various times in history under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Woody.

[B-Chan]

"How do we know that the books in the Bible today are all divinely inspired Scripture, and who got to make that decision? And -- more importantly -- by what authority did they decide?"

The Emperor Constantine in fact made the decision...

LOL!

Care to back that one up?

[RobRoy]

>>Let's hear your answer: where did the Bible come from? How do we know that the books in the Bible today are all divinely inspired Scripture, and who got to make that decision?

And -- more importantly -- by what authority did they decide? <<

Those are really good questions. I'd start with the book "The Case for Christ," and then go on to dryer stuff like "Evidence that demands a Verdict" and its sequel. If you want more, read the ancient sources themselves.

A good spirital starting place on the whole issue, and the lightest reading of all, is C. S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity."

There has been an awful lot written on the subject over the last 2000 years.

[redhead]

""Just speculating here why a bishop would hide." Agree with your 'speculations'. . .and no doubt,he was hiding or just 'getting his grip'; . . .or maybe he just thought a deer jumped off the city sidewalk or somesuch. . . . Pathetic, pathetic excuses for Moral leadership. . ."

Yup. And, if there was 36 hours between the time of the accident and the time of the arrest, it would give him plenty of time to get rid of the alcohol on his breath (forgive me, bishop, if I am in error here...). If he was under the influence of alcohol, it could help explain why he would leave the scene.

[sabe@q.com]

"He can't run a diocese from a prison cell can he?"

He will probably be given bail... During the scandal the Bishop stated that even if arrested for obstruction of justice, the Pope wouldn't of accepted his resignation...

It will be interesting to see if the Pope does now...

[sabe@q.com]

He was coming home from giving a mass...

What's sad is... if he had just pulled over and called the police he wouldn't be in trouble...

[RobRoy]

...unless there is more to it...

[sabe@q.com]

"O'Brien may not have known he'd hit a pedestrian."

There's a picture of the car windshield... he had to have hit something... Even leaving the scene after hitting an animal is against the law...

[B-Chan]

Look, I don't know what your problem is - I don't see the Catholic Church as infallible. You do. You've made your point.

Thanks. My "problem" is that the FRoundheads think they can come out and snipe at the Catholic Church and get away with it. My job is to reach out to them in a spirit of Christian fraternity and destroy that misapprehension.

You aren't going to change my mind.

I don't have to. God will do that -- in His own sweet time. My job is to defend the truth, not to sell it.

Your behavior certainly doesn't entice me to be interested in your point of view...

What "behavior"? I never insulted you. I never called you a name. I attacked ideas, not people. That's the "behavior" that FR requires from us. I'm sorry you feel that I'm badly behaved.

...and I doubt that many others find your points salient, or even clever.

Salient? I think so. Clever? Unlikely. I don't think I've had a clever moment in my life.

Your theological view is not the point of this thread.

Tell it to those who see the "point" of this thread as an opportunity to castigate the Roman Catholic Church as an institution. Denigrating me is fine; I refuse to sit back and let them denigrate my faith.

[Antoninus]

My working theory: someone else was driving the car.... A good, close, male friend of the bishop.... Perhaps even a "partner" in crime ...

[Catspaw]

The Shape of the impact in the glass and the bloody splotch on the roof above look like the guy was flipped head first into the windshield and then over the car.

The forensics team will be all over the car.

However, if he had been drinking, it's been too long from the time of the accident until the arrest. Any alcohol he may have had in his body is long gone--no DUI.

I figure leaving the scene of the accident is the first of the charges, though. Depending on how the law is written in AZ, he could be looking at vehicular homicide.

[BlazingArizona]

Just speculating here why a bishop would hide."

There's a lot of backgroud behind this story.

o'Brien has been under suspicion for a year of covering up a huge child molesting scandal in the Phoenix diocese, with numerous priests accused of molesting. Most of those accused fled with Church help, including being reassigned to places like Mexico. O'Brien, on the thin edge of being indicted for all of this, just plea-bargained last week, agreeing to finger the renegade priests.< P> So when he was driving home that night he was obviously in no mental condition to drive, whether or not any 'substances' were involved.

[B-Chan]

Look, I don't know what your problem is - I don't see the Catholic Church as infallible. You do. You've made your point.

Thanks. My "problem" is that the FRoundheads think they can come out and snipe at the Catholic Church and get away with it. My job is to reach out to them in a spirit of Christian fraternity and destroy that misapprehension.

You aren't going to change my mind.

I don't have to. God will do that -- in His own sweet time. My job is to defend the truth, not to sell it.

Your behavior certainly doesn't entice me to be interested in your point of view...

What "behavior"? I never insulted you. I never called you a name. I attacked ideas, not people. That's the "behavior" that FR requires from us. I'm sorry you feel that I'm badly behaved.

...and I doubt that many others find your points salient, or even clever.

Salient? I think so. Clever? Unlikely. I don't think I've had a clever moment in my life.

Your theological view is not the point of this thread.

Tell it to those who see the "point" of this thread as an opportunity to castigate the Roman Catholic Church as an institution. Denigrating me is fine; I refuse to sit back and let them denigrate my faith.

[rmvh]

Re your # 1...

It is time that all Catholics should be given a choice: either leave the country now or face public trial for public perversion!!!.

As any sane person knows, only the Catholic religion has perveted leaders, ignorant followers, and in turn has never contributed military or political heroes or made other significant contributions to America as all other major religions have in this country.....and in much greater abundance!!

Lets pillage this ill begotten faith and all of it's followers.

In the meantime, Please have a nice evening