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Catholic bishop of Phoenix arrested
FOXNEWS | 6/16/2003 | John Gibson

Posted on 06/16/2003 2:12:52 PM PDT by sinkspur

Roman Catholic bishop John O'Brien was arrested for leaving the scene of a fatal hit-and-run accident, and his car impounded.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: Arizona
KEYWORDS: bishop; hitandrun; obrien; phoenix
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To: Robert_Paulson2
What you said. Excellent post - and absolutely dead-on right.
351 posted on 06/17/2003 5:44:10 PM PDT by Xenalyte (I may not agree with your bumper sticker, but I'll defend to the death your right to stick it)
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To: TotusTuus
And I saw the spaceship.
352 posted on 06/17/2003 5:45:00 PM PDT by MARTIAL MONK
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To: saradippity
That was another case of homosexual favoritism,the ones who raped and sodomized boys were never treated like that

I never thought it odd how harshly priests who married were treated, until I learned about the coverup of the boy molestations.

Even the nun in Boston who baptized a baby (I know her personally) was on the street with her few belongings in twenty-four hours after our brother Bernard found out what she did.

The American bishops can move very fast when they want to.

353 posted on 06/17/2003 5:45:44 PM PDT by Jim Noble
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To: IrishRainy
PLEASE, get your facts straight before you pontificate to others about it.

Rainy, I think this is a gossip thread. No facts are necessary.

It is just a little humerous to see these posters make, of all people, Bishop Thomas O'Brien into the devil himself.

You know as well as I, that his Excellency is a weak leader and a tribute to mediocrity, but he is not an immoral monster.

A tragic accident occurred. Could have been any of us - and almost happened to me along that same strecth of road, on several different occasions no less.

354 posted on 06/17/2003 5:48:11 PM PDT by TotusTuus
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To: MARTIAL MONK
And I saw the spaceship.

I was wondering how long it would take before a spaceship made it to this thread.

355 posted on 06/17/2003 5:53:06 PM PDT by TotusTuus
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To: Thorondir
the USMC has always been about 60% Catholic

This sounds awfully high to me. I wasn't able to find the current breakdown but I did find the Marine casualty statistics from Viet Nam:

Protestant: 61%

Roman Catholic: 33%

356 posted on 06/17/2003 6:02:36 PM PDT by wideminded
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To: sinkspur
Okay, to play your game: The ex-bishop is involved in this same accident (occurred under 3 miles from his home). The problem of this fatal traffic accident is better how?

This situation is separate from other "issues" that has occurred in the Diocese of Phx. I don't agree with your, and others, assessment of those other issues. Don't need to bother writing about it because it will serve no purpose.

Concerning the accident: Did the Bishop leave the scene of the accident knowing what happened? That would be a bad thing. And illegal. That is the 64K question. Until the full set of facts are in, I don't know for sure. But I doubt it.

357 posted on 06/17/2003 6:09:54 PM PDT by TotusTuus
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To: TotusTuus
Did the Bishop leave the scene of the accident knowing what happened?

If he didn't, he should have sensed something was up when he was TOLD, on Sunday, that the police were looking for him.

Yet, he stayed on the lam for another 12 hours.

Unlike you, I think he knew what he did, he was just scared to death.

Cowardly, IOW.

358 posted on 06/17/2003 6:14:44 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: TotusTuus
Could have been any of us

You and I would have stopped.

359 posted on 06/17/2003 6:17:02 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: TotusTuus
This situation is separate from other "issues" that has occurred in the Diocese of Phx. I don't agree with your, and others, assessment of those other issues. Don't need to bother writing about it because it will serve no purpose.

It will serve no purpose other than to remind lurkers that O'Brien signed a consent agreement to relinquish control over sexual abuse cases to a layman in lieu of being indicted for obstruction of justice (for which the DA had plenty of evidence and was ready to charge the bishop).

360 posted on 06/17/2003 6:20:25 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
The title Your/His Eminence is for Cardinals. O'Brien is not a Cardinal.
361 posted on 06/17/2003 6:24:53 PM PDT by ELS
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To: sinkspur
It will serve no purpose other than to remind lurkers that O'Brien signed a consent agreement to relinquish control over sexual abuse cases to a layman in lieu of being indicted for obstruction of justice

No, he did not. That is not what the agreement states. It has been posted elsewhere, if not on this thread.

362 posted on 06/17/2003 6:31:28 PM PDT by TotusTuus
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To: TotusTuus
No, he did not.

Well, the DA was ready to indict him for obstruction of justice, and O'Brien admitted to moving priests, even though he knew they were guilty of pederasty, and did not inform pastors or parishioners of the receiving parishes.

And, when O'Brien came out and said "there was no cover-up," DA Romley, when questioned about it, said "Does the bishop not remember what he signed?"

Totus, you can spin the agreement however you want to spin it, but the only reason O'Brien wasn't behind bars for that offense was the DA worked out a deal with him.

363 posted on 06/17/2003 6:37:13 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: wideminded
Well,it seems to me that shows Catholics were either overrepresented among the troops or they were less able to defend themselves and thus died.

This country has always had between 17% and 23% Catholics,the fact that 33% lost their lives in Nam supports either that Catholics go into the military in higher numbers than non-Catholics or are more apt to die.

I don't know about the 60% number either.

364 posted on 06/17/2003 6:42:52 PM PDT by saradippity
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To: Havisham
Look, does anyone here honestly think O'Brien would have left another human being to suffer or die if he had understood what had happened?

Knowing this man's tendency to hide from unfavorable media (and not very good at that, I might add)....sadly, yes.

365 posted on 06/17/2003 6:57:46 PM PDT by kstewskis ("political correctness is intellectual terrorism...." Mel Gibson)
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To: sinkspur; TotusTuus
Sinkspur,you are wrong again.The county Attorney said,in defending his position in not indicting him to begin with,that he could have indicted him but he might very well have been found not guilty. But the bigger problem was that had he been found guilty,he probably would have gotten a year or two which most likely would have been suspended anyway.

He felt that his cooperation and acknowledgement would not hinder other charges if new information came out and would save time in the long run.

Regards the wildlife in Phoenix,I lived in what could have been called the inner city (4 miles south of the action) and this week coyotes were spotted walking around within a block of my house.

BTW,I have no idea of what happened last Saturday night but I suspect the bishop has been scared out of his wits for a while now,unfortunately because he has lied so frequently,he has no credibility. Let this be a lesson for all,"TELL THE TRUTH".

366 posted on 06/17/2003 6:58:31 PM PDT by saradippity
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To: TotusTuus
Could have been any of us - and almost happened to me along that same strecth of road, on several different occasions no less.


I agree with most of your post but this part.

exceppt.... YOU would have stopped after the accident. YOU would not have tried to get the windshield replaced on Sunday to hide your crime. YOU would have offered last rites. The problem is, this bishop, did not.

I hardly think his actions representative of my Catholic family members... and suggest humbly that YOUR reactions to such an accident would very likely be like theirs... stop, call for police, offer assistance, and pray for the wounded... till the medics, police and fire department officials arrived.

May your tribe increase... and may this bishop's... be put out to pasture.
fwiw...

to be honest with you, I don't know even ONE catholic family member or friend who would behave in any other way, than to do what is right in such manners. The ones I know won't even tell a little white lie... let alone leave the scene of an accident.

367 posted on 06/17/2003 7:03:38 PM PDT by Robert_Paulson2 (What price treason?)
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To: saradippity
The county Attorney said,in defending his position in not indicting him to begin with,that he could have indicted him but he might very well have been found not guilty.

Which, as you know sara, could be said of any defendent, in any case, anywhere, at any time.

No. Romley didn't indict him because he didn't want to be the first to indict a Catholic bishop in a sex abuse case, so he gave him a way out, which was to relinquish authority over sex abuse cases to someone else, and he had O'Brien sign an agreement that said, basically, that O'Brien was guilty.

368 posted on 06/17/2003 7:04:26 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: B-Chan
You bring up good points. True, much of what we view, and think to be real, is just subjective interpretation. But where does that leave us? If we can't really be certain of anything, then do we reject everything as possibly false, or accept it all, because it might be true? Without granting some common sense leeway, we are stuck with no guidposts, we are just lost. But how does this apply to the possibly devine nature of scripture? If you must accept that the Bible is devinely inspired, since there is no way to prove the notion false, then must you accept all religious texts?
369 posted on 06/17/2003 7:12:04 PM PDT by plusone
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To: sinkspur
You hit it on the head again... EXACTLY....
The DA had given him a way out.
It appears that sovereignty, or irony, may have just taken that option away for good.

The agrement was posted here. O'Brien said as much as "I am guilty" in his agreement. The spinning of the agreement however was becoming way to clintonesque...

The manslaughter charge will not be so ambiguous.
370 posted on 06/17/2003 7:16:59 PM PDT by Robert_Paulson2 (What price treason?)
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To: Robert_Paulson2
No excuse for Swaggart though. If you cannot keep it zipped, or resist going after "strange" women, you don't really belong in Christian ministry...

Agreed.

One thing I have to respect Swaggart with, is that he faced the music, and publicly asked for forgiveness for his sin(s). Something many of us Catholics wished our church leaders would do, when they've done wrong.

371 posted on 06/17/2003 7:26:52 PM PDT by kstewskis ("political correctness is intellectual terrorism...." Mel Gibson)
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To: kstewskis
Not to be too hard on the Catholic leadership... I think some have.
Don't ask for a list... but some have done the right thing.

372 posted on 06/17/2003 7:30:57 PM PDT by Robert_Paulson2 (What price treason?)
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To: Dusty Rose
how vital it is to place our faith and trust in Him, not in church leaders who are bound to disappoint us

Church leaders are not immune from human weaknesses and sin, they also need salvation, they also can go to Hell --- it's not really any different in a corporation, just because someone is higher up in status doesn't make them less likely to commit fraud, embezzle or cheat. We can't believe leaders and other higher-ups are some special class ----they all need their feet held to the fire, they all must be watched closely and kept honest.

373 posted on 06/17/2003 7:33:04 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: sinkspur
He was probably on the horn to pedophiles in other countries, that he had "relocated" with help from a few cardinals... trying to get out of the country quick.

I would LOVE to see his phone logs.
Bet the DA is already seeking them...
Bet the Bishop, will try and NOT surrender them because his calls are "church business" only... and not subject to the courts...

Bet the DA gets the long distance calls accounting anyway...
374 posted on 06/17/2003 7:34:56 PM PDT by Robert_Paulson2 (What price treason?)
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To: Havisham
Look, does anyone here honestly think O'Brien would have left another human being to suffer or die if he had understood what had happened?

I don't know what he understood, he might have been drunk and not thinking or understanding much. The way I see it ---it's not so different than when you work for a corporation and some VP is caught doing something undefendable. It's not loyalty to the corporation to defend or even try to understand those who might be higher up but behaved like criminals or oafs. You don't quit your job because they do ---you're glad that they were caught and hope things get cleaned up so the company can survive.

375 posted on 06/17/2003 7:37:19 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: Robert_Paulson2
Not to be too hard on the Catholic leadership... I think some have. Don't ask for a list... but some have done the right thing

Thankfully, yes. And they are the majority. Our parish priest is one of thoese who did the right thing for us last summer, and was punished for it.

Last summer, our parish wrote a letter to O'Brien to address the scandal, and our concerns about it.some ....our parish priest was thrown out of his office and threatened never to bring the subject up again.

Of course, it brought a "collective sigh" to us. But then again, it taught us a thing or two. Let God handle it. Things will work out the way they are meant to be.

376 posted on 06/17/2003 7:37:41 PM PDT by kstewskis ("political correctness is intellectual terrorism...." Mel Gibson)
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To: wideminded
I guess we fight better.
377 posted on 06/17/2003 8:57:36 PM PDT by Thorondir
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To: FITZ
The stampede to convict O'Brien (or any catholic priest, for that matter) makes me uneasy.
378 posted on 06/17/2003 8:59:04 PM PDT by Havisham
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To: Robert_Paulson2
He was probably on the horn to pedophiles in other countries, that he had "relocated" with help from a few cardinals... trying to get out of the country quick.

Uh....oh never mind.

379 posted on 06/17/2003 9:41:17 PM PDT by St.Chuck
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
Had Rome relieved him, he'd have never been there, drunk, to kill that man.

Can't you read? He had absolutely no time at all to get drunk. Witnesses at the Mass he presided at have come forward and said he was perfectly fine at 8:00. Are you saying he drank enough to become drunk in half an hour in the car, or are you just making vile accusations because you obviously HATE the Church?

380 posted on 06/18/2003 4:52:15 AM PDT by IrishRainy
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To: Havisham
If he were a CEO of some big company, wouldn't there also be a stampede to convict him? Or a federal judge? I don't think being part of the Catholic clergy, especially the hierarchy should give him a break ---I think it's right to hold our moral leaders to very high standards. It's not that they won't fail, they are only human and susceptible to sin just like everyone ---but if you choose to be (or believe God calls you to be) in positions over the rest of us, then you have a duty to live up to the expectations. I think it's even worse for a bishop to do this kind of thing than it would be for a Congressmen to have done it. God is the final Judge though ---and He might have more compassion than us.
381 posted on 06/18/2003 5:01:28 AM PDT by FITZ
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To: FITZ
Here is how it goes: Like the klintonista feminists who would never swallow bubba's behavior should it have COME from a pubbie, so the tribalist catholics here behave.

Only THEIR guy can do it. Now, that THE VERY SAME folks are OUTRAGED at what klintoon did, regarding coverups, rogering young honeys, will EXCUSE behavior far worse, in that it involved children and coverups SHOWS the operation of hypocrisy.

First, you need to possess tribal identity...this is MY gang. Second, you defer your morality or principle to the tribe. Third, you polarize the group to an outside force to induce cohesion of the group, and ensure conformity....

Like limbaugh yesterday. He had several callers who said they would not vote for bush due to his socialist policies. Limbaugh, tribalist extraordinaire, replied in kind saying, "well, who ELSE are you gonna vote for...the dems will ruin the country (sic)"...

Polarity. Keep the tribe in line by threating an outside adversary. Never mind that your tribe has done the very things that they threaten the OTHER tribe may do. The OTHER guys are the reason why you have to sell your principles down the river, why you have to accept socialism...cause it is better than...? This is called FRAMING A PARADIGM. You set the parameters. People then take on the perspective that serves those who install the perspective. The tribalist, polarity perspective of political parties serves BOTH parties, OBVIOUSLY. As long as the people have little choice between alternatives, BOTH groups ensure employment. As long as problems don't ever get fixed, you are guaranteed a polarity issue to exploit every four years. If both SOLVE problems, they lose power, money, and relevance.

An ounce of poison or a pound, we are only arguing about degree. Coke or Pepsi.

382 posted on 06/18/2003 5:20:17 AM PDT by galt-jw (guess what? you've been had!)
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To: Robert_Paulson2
Do you have any evidence that he KNEW he had hit a human being? I thought not. NONE of us know what actually happened, and I'm sure we won't for some time.

He didn't try to have the windshield fixed on Sunday, by the way...it was Monday morning. He told his secretary to inquire about it. He obviously wasn't hiding the condition of the car, either, as you would expect if he knew he had killed a man in a hit-and-run accident. He drove it to church so he could say Mass on Sunday and then to visit his sister in Scottsdale. Hardly the actions of a criminal trying to cover his tracks, I'd say.

I just wish someone had managed to get the license plate number of the other car that hit the victim...you know, the one who not only ran him over with his car but then dragged him 40 feet.

As a lifelong Catholic, I was raised to think highly of priests. If I had to take the word of a priest over a regular old Joe, the priest would win. I believe the Bishop when he says he thought he hit an animal, and I will continue to believe him until it is proven otherwise.

383 posted on 06/18/2003 5:24:49 AM PDT by IrishRainy
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To: Havisham
The stampede to convict O'Brien (or any catholic priest, for that matter) makes me uneasy.

It's called a witch hunt, and it's all the rage. Didn't you get the memo?

384 posted on 06/18/2003 5:28:03 AM PDT by IrishRainy
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To: St.Chuck
Uh....oh never mind.

Yeah, I know. With some people, it's absolutely pointless....

385 posted on 06/18/2003 5:29:33 AM PDT by IrishRainy
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To: galt-jw
Like the klintonista feminists who would never swallow bubba's behavior should it have COME from a pubbie, so the tribalist catholics here behave.

Ah, but you're wrong. What I object to is the lack of due process in this situation. As far as the charges of abuse by homosexual priests, many of these accusations are 20 or 30 years old. It's hard to prove a negative -- when did you stop beating your wife, Mr. Blumenthal? Didn't Drudge get sued for that remark? Yet when it's a Catholic priest being accused, everyone just assumes that it's true. Later, if the charges are dropped, mainly due to lack of evidence, it's just a blurb on page 22 of the local paper -- nobody cares if he's found innocent.

Also, look at the money involved in these massive cases, such as in Boston. At stake in one settlement is 85 million dollars, with approximately 300 "victims" sharing in it. After the lawyers get their share -- you didn't think they were doing this cause they "care so much" for the victims, did you? -- that's about 200,000 for each of them. Needless to say, people were coming out of the woodwork claiming they had suddenly regained their long-repressed memories of abuse at the hands of Father Joe. Some of these same people "couldn't bear to tell anybody about it" when it happened because they were too ashamed, but they can get on the stand and tell a courtroom full of strangers all the sordid details. Hmmm, sounds slightly suspect to me.

Don't get me wrong, some of these people have legitimate claims. If they can back up their accusations and a jury believes the evidence, then lock them up and throw away the key. On the other hand, don't convict possibly innocent "men of the cloth" based on faint recollections. Remember, this supposed "crisis" has spawned a cottage industry (Voice of the Faithful, SNAP) not to mention lined the pockets of a good many people, including attorneys. Follow the money, and remember these men are innocent until PR0VEN guilty.

386 posted on 06/18/2003 5:53:08 AM PDT by IrishRainy
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To: IrishRainy
I agree - and I find it pathetic the way the media is handling this too... "So chief, are you sure he wasn't impaired? asolutely? positively?" Whether you hate the Catholic church or not, this guy deserves a little respect. And if there was any reason for suspecting he did not realize he hit something other than an animal, it will come out in the trial. Seems the press is in such a rush to negatively judge everything these days... I'm fed up with the mainstream press...
387 posted on 06/18/2003 6:32:43 AM PDT by craig61a
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To: IrishRainy
Speaking of the memo: I just heard a Phx journalist on MSNBC convict and sentence O'Brien. Journalist started out by saying that O'Brien's resignation was 'voluntary in that his own actions placed him in that position'. Among other prejudicial statements, Journalist said O'Brien will plead guilty to avoid a trial and will serve jail time. He brought down his imaginary judge's gavel with the coda, "That's how it will go down." This is a case where the word 'chilling' really applies.
388 posted on 06/18/2003 9:31:33 AM PDT by Havisham
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To: IrishRainy
If the information I posted re the (now former) bishop is anyway incorrect, I would appreciate knowing in what respect it is incorrect. Thank you.
389 posted on 06/18/2003 9:55:47 AM PDT by JoeFromCA
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To: kstewskis
Yes, I honestly think that this (now former) bishop knew that he hit a human being and intentionally left him to die. Most of don't encounter evil on a daily basis so we find it hard to comprehend that it exists. This (now former) bishop is evil.
390 posted on 06/18/2003 10:02:16 AM PDT by JoeFromCA
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To: FITZ
Yes, I honestly think that this (now former) bishop intentionally left another human being to suffer and die.
391 posted on 06/18/2003 10:04:41 AM PDT by JoeFromCA
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To: FITZ
If he were a CEO of some big company, wouldn't there also be a stampede to convict him? Or a federal judge? I don't think being part of the Catholic clergy, especially the hierarchy should give him a break ---

Frankly, no, I don't think this preternatural lynch mob would have organized itself so completely and so quickly if it were someone less cowed, both psychologically and legally. That goes for O'Brien and the church. And I haven't asked for a special break for O'Brien, just common, ordinary due process of law. I think Thomas Sowell was talking about people like you when he wrote 'The Quest for Cosmic Justice', and it wasn't an endorsement, either.

392 posted on 06/18/2003 10:09:21 AM PDT by Havisham
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To: All
If he were a CEO of some big company, wouldn't there also be a stampede to convict him? Or a federal judge? I don't think being part of the Catholic clergy, especially the hierarchy should give him a break ---FITZ

Frankly, no, I don't think this preternatural lynch mob would have organized itself so completely and so quickly if it were someone less cowed, both psychologically and legally. That goes for O'Brien and the church. And I haven't asked for a special break for O'Brien, just common, ordinary due process of law. I think Thomas Sowell was talking about people like you when he wrote 'The Quest for Cosmic Justice', and it wasn't an endorsement, either.

393 posted on 06/18/2003 11:15:49 AM PDT by Havisham
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To: Havisham
I think Thomas Sowell was talking about people like you when he wrote 'The Quest for Cosmic Justice', and it wasn't an endorsement, either.

I don't really care if it would be an endorsement or not --I think we really need to hold our moral leaders to a very high standard. If they can't live up to doing what is right, let them step down, we don't need that kind. I don't feel like following priests and bishops into Hell, if they don't chose the way of God, get them out of the way --and now I see the Vatican has also accepted his resignation ---are they guilty of expecting too much also?

394 posted on 06/18/2003 3:19:34 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: IrishRainy
As a lifelong Catholic, I was raised to think highly of priests. If I had to take the word of a priest over a regular old Joe, the priest would win. I believe the Bishop when he says he thought he hit an animal, and I will continue to believe him until it is proven otherwise.

Same here ---and as an American I was raised to think highly of presidents ----but then we had Clinton. I believe someone has to earn respect, you can't just give it to them.

395 posted on 06/18/2003 3:24:39 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: IrishRainy
"I believe the Bishop when he says he thought he hit an animal, and I will continue to believe him until it is proven otherwise."

Well, in his mind it was an animal. Maybe a pink elephant.

396 posted on 06/18/2003 3:30:02 PM PDT by Ex-Wretch
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To: FITZ
I don't really care if it would be an endorsement or not --I think we really need to hold our moral leaders to a very high standard. If they can't live up to doing what is right, let them step down, we don't need that kind. I don't feel like following priests and bishops into Hell, if they don't chose the way of God, get them out of the way --and now I see the Vatican has also accepted his resignation ---are they guilty of expecting too much also?

I see the distinct possibility that O'Brien has wanted to step down for some time and that Holy Father finally agreed that it should take place now. Resigning is one thing but should the bishop go further and plead guilty if he's actually innocent? Wouldn't good catholics regret our part in such an injustice and ashamed of our haste to push him down the stairs on his way out, so to speak?

397 posted on 06/18/2003 7:48:16 PM PDT by Havisham
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To: JoeFromCA
...and the DA's success in nailing him for harboring abusive priests. This bishop or whatever he calls himself had the gall to go on TV and specifically repudiate the agreement he had signed admitting his guilt!!

Okay, this is what I mean. He didn't harbor abusive priests. He did what the clergy and the schools DID in the 60s and 70s. They listened to the mental health "experts" who felt homosexuality and pedophilia could be "cured" via therapy. Now we know differently but at that time it was the accepted treatment. 150 years ago doctors didn't sterilize surgical instruments and guess what? People got massive infections and died. Oops. Should we call those people monsters? Of course not. They did what they did in good faith, thinking they were actually helping people.

Same here. Show me one shred of evidence that Bishop O'Brien didn't think he was doing the right thing, and that he KNOWINGLY put children into the hands of these predators. I don't think you can because you can't actually get into another person's mind to determine what they were thinking.

In retrospect, should he have handled this situation differently? Certainly, as should hundreds of other clergy members, doctors, educators, and Scout leaders. However, at the time they were doing what they felt was best, which is the best we can hope for.

398 posted on 06/18/2003 9:13:01 PM PDT by IrishRainy
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To: JoeFromCA
Yes, I honestly think that this (now former) bishop knew that he hit a human being and intentionally left him to die. Most of don't encounter evil on a daily basis so we find it hard to comprehend that it exists. This (now former) bishop is evil.

And what predisposes you to think that "the Bishop knew he hit a human being and intentionally left him to die?" Certainly not the facts, since they have not been ascertained yet. You know, in a trial, where we get to hear both sides of the story, see the evidence, etc., and then make up our minds.

Have you ever met the Bishop? Ever talked to him? Ever seen him preside over a Mass? You know, if he was truly evil, I doubt God would have allowed him to continue as a priest for so long. So I think your characterization of him as evil is a bit extreme, to say the least.

I think it is safe to say that this gentle, shy, good man has been feeling a bit beleaguered lately, what with the daily assaults upon his character and reputation such as evidenced here, let alone in the media. Coupled with his elderly age and his deteriorating physical condition, I think the burden of being the Bishop of Phoenix is too much for him at this time, so retirement is probably a good idea.

399 posted on 06/18/2003 9:27:35 PM PDT by IrishRainy
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