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Catholic bishop of Phoenix arrested
FOXNEWS | 6/16/2003 | John Gibson

Posted on 06/16/2003 2:12:52 PM PDT by sinkspur

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To: sinkspur
Re your # 1...

It is time that all Catholics should be given a choice: either leave the country now or face public trial for public perversion!!!.

As any sane person knows, only the Catholic religion has perveted leaders, ignorant followers, and in turn has never contributed military or political heroes or made other significant contributions to America as all other major religions have in this country.....and in much greater abundance!!

Lets pillage this ill begotten faith and all of it's followers.

In the meantime, Please have a nice evening


151 posted on 06/16/2003 5:24:34 PM PDT by rmvh
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To: Endeavor
Look, I don't know what your problem is - I don't see the Catholic Church as infallible. You do. You've made your point.

Thanks. My "problem" is that the FRoundheads think they can come out and snipe at the Catholic Church and get away with it. My job is to reach out to them in a spirit of Christian fraternity and destroy that misapprehension.

You aren't going to change my mind.

I don't have to. God will do that -- in His own sweet time. My job is to defend the truth, not to sell it.

Your behavior certainly doesn't entice me to be interested in your point of view...

What "behavior"? I never insulted you. I never called you a name. I attacked ideas, not people. That's the "behavior" that FR requires from us. I'm sorry you feel that I'm badly behaved.

...and I doubt that many others find your points salient, or even clever.

Salient? I think so. Clever? Unlikely. I don't think I've had a clever moment in my life.

Your theological view is not the point of this thread.

Tell it to those who see the "point" of this thread as an opportunity to castigate the Roman Catholic Church as an institution. Denigrating me is fine; I refuse to sit back and let them denigrate my faith.

152 posted on 06/16/2003 5:24:38 PM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: RobRoy
I doubt there is... if he had just pulled over and called the police...
153 posted on 06/16/2003 5:32:02 PM PDT by sabe@q.com
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To: Antoninus
If he wasn't the one behind the wheel they wouldn't have arrested him...
154 posted on 06/16/2003 5:32:07 PM PDT by sabe@q.com
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To: ultima ratio
That said, there was nothing priestlike in this bishop's behavior.

Agreed. I hope they throw the book at him.

Why is this so often the case?

It isn't really. Catholics just get more press. Don't forget, the Enemy owns the media and will use it as a stick to beat the Church with whenever God allows him to. It is precisely because the Church is God's real address that we get taken seriously. When a comical clown like Swaggart gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar, it's an occasion for humor; when one of Our Guys gets busted, it's news. Why? Because the Enemy knows we're For Real, that's why; we rate the deluxe treatment.

What's the sickness behind these symptoms?

Rebellion. Americans will not tolerate being told what to do by anybody. That goes triple for most of the members of the USCCB. Who is that Pope guy to tell them that sexing the kinder is a sin, anyway?

If I were Pope, I'd send bishops like this to the Abbey of Tierra del Fuego where they'd spend the rest of their lives under a vow of silence cleaning out the filthiest toilets I could find. Better harsh penance today than a millstone around the neck in the Hereafter!

155 posted on 06/16/2003 5:32:08 PM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: Antoninus
If he wasn't the one behind the wheel they wouldn't of arrested him.
156 posted on 06/16/2003 5:32:11 PM PDT by sabe@q.com
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To: sinkspur
Here's something I wondered about after seeing a picture of Father O'Brien that accompanied another article last week: Isn't he an unusual-looking individual? I'm not referring to the dyed hair, but to the shape of his face and his expression. Does this particular facial structure have any further meaning? Or am I just making too many connections? Not that his physiognomy should convict him of anything, but it is probably true that you can read a lot into a person's expression. The picture below is the best one I could link to, although it doesn't really convey the full effect.


157 posted on 06/16/2003 5:34:56 PM PDT by wideminded
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To: ultima ratio
That said, there was nothing priestlike in this bishop's behavior.

Agreed. I hope they throw the book at him.

Why is this so often the case?

It isn't really. Catholics just get more press. Don't forget, the Enemy owns the media and will use it as a stick to beat the Church with whenever God allows him to. It is precisely because the Church is God's real address that we get taken seriously. When a comical clown like Swaggart gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar, it's an occasion for humor; when one of Our Guys gets busted, it's news. Why? Because the Enemy knows we're For Real, that's why; we rate the deluxe treatment.

What's the sickness behind these symptoms?

Rebellion. Americans will not tolerate being told what to do by anybody. That goes triple for most of the members of the USCCB. Who is that Pope guy to tell them that sexing the kinder is a sin, anyway?

If I were Pope, I'd send bishops like this to the Abbey of Tierra del Fuego where they'd spend the rest of their lives under a vow of silence cleaning out the filthiest toilets I could find. Better harsh penance today than a millstone around the neck in the Hereafter!

158 posted on 06/16/2003 5:37:40 PM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: B-Chan
If I were Pope, I'd send bishops like this to the Abbey of Tierra del Fuego where they'd spend the rest of their lives under a vow of silence cleaning out the filthiest toilets I could find. Better harsh penance today than a millstone around the neck in the Hereafter!

If they're in Tierra del Fuego take away their shoes, too.

Maybe that's too cruel?
159 posted on 06/16/2003 5:37:42 PM PDT by Desdemona
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To: ultima ratio
That said, there was nothing priestlike in this bishop's behavior.

Agreed. I hope they throw the book at him.

Why is this so often the case?

It isn't really. Catholics just get more press. Don't forget, the Enemy owns the media and will use it as a stick to beat the Church with whenever God allows him to. It is precisely because the Church is God's real address that we get taken seriously. When a comical clown like Swaggart gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar, it's an occasion for humor; when one of Our Guys gets busted, it's news. Why? Because the Enemy knows we're For Real, that's why; we rate the deluxe treatment.

What's the sickness behind these symptoms?

Rebellion. Americans will not tolerate being told what to do by anybody. That goes triple for most of the members of the USCCB. Who is that Pope guy to tell them that sexing the kinder is a sin, anyway?

If I were Pope, I'd send bishops like this to the Abbey of Tierra del Fuego where they'd spend the rest of their lives under a vow of silence cleaning out the filthiest toilets I could find. Better harsh penance today than a millstone around the neck in the Hereafter!

160 posted on 06/16/2003 5:39:23 PM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: sinkspur
19th Avenue and Glendale is a VERY well lit area. I don't see how he could claim not to have seen anything.

The absolute worst part of this is that the man might have needed final rites. If he died without absolution, with Bishop O'Brien driving away, it's a horrendous thought. Was the man killed instantly, or did he lie there dying? We haven't heard any of the details yet. The radio here is BLAZING!

161 posted on 06/16/2003 5:41:14 PM PDT by McGavin999
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To: rmvh
It is time that all Catholics should be given a choice: either leave the country now or face public trial for public perversion!!!.

There ya go! Take the strait-jacket off for an hour, and look what comes out on the keyboard!

As any sane person knows, only the Catholic religion has perveted leaders, ignorant followers, and in turn has never contributed military or political heroes or made other significant contributions to America as all other major religions have in this country.....and in much greater abundance!!

Sane? According to you?

Take away the Catholic hospitals and Catholic schools and you couldn't afford the tax bill!

And, since Catholics have been the majority religion in this country for a very long time, I'd surmise that more Catholics died for your freedom in the military than United Methodists (no disrespect to the United Methodists.)

And, if it wasn't for us Catholics, you likely would be getting your booze from a still in your back yard.

So get on your knees, boy, and raise a glass to the Catholic Church!

162 posted on 06/16/2003 5:41:37 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: cricket
Just speculating here why a bishop would hide."

There's a lot of backgroud behind this story.

O'Brien has been under suspicion for a year of covering up a huge child molesting scandal in the Phoenix diocese, with numerous priests accused of molesting. Most of those accused fled with Church help, including being reassigned to places like Mexico. O'Brien, on the thin edge of being indicted for all of this, just plea-bargained last week, agreeing to finger the renegade priests.< P> So when he was driving home that night he was obviously in no mental condition to drive, whether or not any 'substances' were involved.

163 posted on 06/16/2003 5:42:58 PM PDT by BlazingArizona
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To: sinkspur
My theory: someone else was driving the car.... A good, close, male friend of the bishop.... Perhaps even a "partner" in crime ...
164 posted on 06/16/2003 5:45:02 PM PDT by Antoninus (In hoc signo, vinces )
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To: wideminded
I'm not referring to the dyed hair, but to the shape of his face and his expression. Does this particular facial structure have any further meaning?

He thinks he's a babe magnet.

The dyed hair is bad enough.

A 67-year-old bishop who dyes his hair must think people give a damn what he looks like.

Image. And, I'm sure image is what caused him, likely plastered to the gills, to drive away from this accident.

After all, isn't being drunk worse than killing a man?

165 posted on 06/16/2003 5:49:49 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: sinkspur
I think perhaps he had been drinking. I hit a coyote once and trust me, you know you've hit something. There is no way he wouldn't have known.

My personal opinion is that God weighed in on getting Bishop O'Brien out of the church.

166 posted on 06/16/2003 5:49:50 PM PDT by McGavin999
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To: McGavin999
My personal opinion is that God weighed in on getting Bishop O'Brien out of the church.

Yes, but why did someone have to die? And what's taking so long in Los Angeles?
167 posted on 06/16/2003 5:51:31 PM PDT by Desdemona
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To: McGavin999; Alex Murphy; drstevej; RnMomof7
If he died without absolution.... ~ McGavin999 Woody.
168 posted on 06/16/2003 5:53:42 PM PDT by CCWoody
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To: McGavin999
My personal opinion is that God weighed in on getting Bishop O'Brien out of the church.

Well, if that's true, I hope God cut poor Mr. Reed some slack.

169 posted on 06/16/2003 5:59:49 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: Desdemona
Yes, but why did someone have to die?

Perhaps it was his time, and perhaps God was giving Bishop O'Brien an opportunity to exercise good judgement. The Bishop failed once again. He should have been removed over the pedophile issue, but once again he used bad judgement. Had he pulled over, had he called the police, had he given last rites to the poor man, who knows. We don't even know if the man was killed instantly, although being hit by a second car makes that kind of a moot question. Who was in the second car?

170 posted on 06/16/2003 5:59:50 PM PDT by McGavin999
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To: sinkspur
When it rains, WOW! Does it RAIN!!
171 posted on 06/16/2003 5:59:50 PM PDT by ninenot (Joe McCarthy was RIGHT, but Drank Too Much)
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To: sinkspur
You gotta wonder what Rick Romley, the Maricopa County Attorney, is thinking now... considering this happened right after he entered into that consent agreement rather than indicting him for obstruction of justice...
172 posted on 06/16/2003 5:59:51 PM PDT by sabe@q.com
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To: McGavin999
My personal opinion is that God weighed in on getting Bishop O'Brien out of the church.

Well, if that's true, I hope God cut poor Mr. Reed some slack.

173 posted on 06/16/2003 5:59:51 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: sinkspur
You gotta wonder what Rick Romley, the Maricopa County Attorney, is thinking now... considering this happened right after he entered into that consent agreement rather than indicting him for obstruction of justice...
174 posted on 06/16/2003 5:59:51 PM PDT by sabe@q.com
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To: Desdemona
Yes, but why did someone have to die?

Perhaps it was his time, and perhaps God was giving Bishop O'Brien an opportunity to exercise good judgement. The Bishop failed once again. He should have been removed over the pedophile issue, but once again he used bad judgement. Had he pulled over, had he called the police, had he given last rites to the poor man, who knows. We don't even know if the man was killed instantly, although being hit by a second car makes that kind of a moot question. Who was in the second car?

175 posted on 06/16/2003 5:59:52 PM PDT by McGavin999
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To: sinkspur
Bitter tone? Because I've opposed bishops who've covered for pederasts, and even participated in moving them to new, fertile ground?

Baloney. You only show up on the pederast threads implicating the more conservative bishops--even those at whom only the most tenuous accusations can be levelled. You're suspiciously absent from the myriad threads on Mahoney and the other liberal AmChurch pedo-protectors.
176 posted on 06/16/2003 6:03:38 PM PDT by Antoninus (In hoc signo, vinces )
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To: CCWoody
Woody, I'm not a catholic, although I do go to a catholic church from time to time. Administering final rites is not a power, it's a responcibility that the priest has. The fact that the Bishop did not think of the comfort he could have given a dying man.......well.....that says a lot about what the Bishop thinks of his duties.
177 posted on 06/16/2003 6:03:39 PM PDT by McGavin999
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To: cricket
Just speculating here why a bishop would hide."

There's a lot of backgroud behind this story.

O'Brien has been under suspicion for a year of covering up a huge child molesting scandal in the Phoenix diocese, with numerous priests accused of molesting. Most of those accused fled with Church help, including being reassigned to places like Mexico. O'Brien, on the thin edge of being indicted for all of this, just plea-bargained last week, agreeing to finger the renegade priests.< P> So when he was driving home that night he was obviously in no mental condition to drive, whether or not any 'substances' were involved.

178 posted on 06/16/2003 6:04:29 PM PDT by BlazingArizona
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To: autoresponder; Coleus
- That's two Protestants involved in maritial infidelities, more can be found, but not countless hundreds of homosexual predators of young male teenagers that have been and are countueing to be covered up by their superiors, the church, politicians, and the judicial system. - If you can find a list of hundreds of that criminally attacked minors boys thru NEXUS, feel free to post it here on FR.

Be careful what you wish for... There's a Freeper out there who's got just such a list, I believe...
179 posted on 06/16/2003 6:07:24 PM PDT by Antoninus (In hoc signo, vinces )
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To: Antoninus
You only show up on the pederast threads implicating the more conservative bishops--even those at whom only the most tenuous accusations can be levelled. You're suspiciously absent from the myriad threads on Mahoney and the other liberal AmChurch pedo-protectors.

With all due respect----bullshit!

180 posted on 06/16/2003 6:09:12 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: Antoninus
Perhaps even a "partner" in crime ...

Maybe it was a long time companion.

181 posted on 06/16/2003 6:10:58 PM PDT by Aloysius
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To: McGavin999; Matchett-PI
... it's a responcibility that the priest has. ~ McGavin999 Woody.
182 posted on 06/16/2003 6:11:03 PM PDT by CCWoody
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To: Desdemona
did someone have to die?

It's just a horrible tragedy. It could be symbolic of the souls who are dying through their carelessness.

183 posted on 06/16/2003 6:11:22 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: CCWoody
The Protestant Reformation: Otherwise know as throwing out the baby with the bath water.
184 posted on 06/16/2003 6:11:24 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: CCWoody
Some of us had this thing called a Protestant Reformation.

Yeah, and juding from all the Shelby Spong types out there, you all did a fine job of it...
185 posted on 06/16/2003 6:11:55 PM PDT by Antoninus (In hoc signo, vinces )
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To: sinkspur
Just speculating here why a bishop would hide.

Assuming he was drunk (why else would anyone leave the scene of what was just an accident), the prosecutor can no longer obtain breathalizer or blood test evidence of drunk driving and making a case for negligent homicide would be more difficult, the penalties for which are far greater. this my not save him because if he was driving drunk, there are likely to be witnesses to his drinking and his drunken state could be proven by eyewitness testimony. Basicly, he knew he was screwed and he is desperately hoping to avoid the consequences of his crimes as he did with the sex abuse cases.

In any event, he and the diocese need to get out their checkbooks.

186 posted on 06/16/2003 6:12:21 PM PDT by connectthedots
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To: sinkspur
He thinks he's a babe magnet.

Or maybe a babe-in-arms magnet.

187 posted on 06/16/2003 6:13:34 PM PDT by wideminded
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To: BlazingArizona
O'Brien, on the thin edge of being indicted for all of this, just plea-bargained last week, agreeing to finger the renegade priests.

At least you didn't stay "Stick it to the renegade priests."

188 posted on 06/16/2003 6:15:20 PM PDT by connectthedots
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To: BlazingArizona
It was a consent agreement... not a plea bargain... BIG DIFFERENCE...
189 posted on 06/16/2003 6:16:30 PM PDT by sabe@q.com
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To: CCWoody
Thank God I'm not under this sacerdotal nonsense.

You should be thanking the Devil for your current state in life.

190 posted on 06/16/2003 6:16:32 PM PDT by Aloysius
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To: McGavin999
The "Bishop" has a lot more to worry about than spending his remaining days behind bars. His failure to stop is unforgiveable by anybody less than God and certainly not by criminal statutes.

He should spend that time behind bars wisely or there will be hell to pay in a manner of speaking.

191 posted on 06/16/2003 6:17:49 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Antoninus
The Protestant Reformation assured us that no matter how much the Catholic Church embraced modernism, the Protestants were at least one step ahead in the 'goofy' category.


192 posted on 06/16/2003 6:21:36 PM PDT by Aloysius
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To: Antoninus; autoresponder
here is a brief list of PROTESTANT ABUSERS, which numbers into the thousands!! Replete with Incest, Rape, abuse, adultery, etc. >>>

Oh? Do you mean married Protestant Ministers when you say that?

What do you suppose we do with the Protestants who are "married" and still "abuse" children? Some say it's the celibacy issue of the RCC and yet many married Protestant Clergy abuse children. I guess Satan has his roots in all religions. There is a big coverup going on here with married Protestant Ministers abusing Children. What will happen to them during the Rapture?

726 PROTESTant MINISSTERS ABUSE CHILDREN

http://www.reformation.com/CSA/startPage.html

http://www.cin.org/users/msmith/reformation/baptistsabuse.html

Catholic bashing and pedophile priests
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26955

Minister Rapes Teen
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0530minister-sexcharge-ON.html

Sex scandals also affect Protestant clergy
http://www.freep.com/news/religion/prot5_20020405.htm

U.S. Protestants also facing sex abuse scandals
Expert: Frequency of abuse by Protestant clergy may equal that of Catholic priests
http://www.thehollandsentinel.net/stories/040602/rel_040602027.shtml

Accusations filed against NY ministers
http://www.layman.org/layman/news/news-from-pcusa/accusations-filed-against-ny-ministers.htm

A 14-year-old girl in foster care is raped and impregnated by Deacon Stephen Andrews of the Advent Christian Church in Kennebunk, Maine, a trusted figure. She gives birth. Andrews gets 5 years in prison, 3 of them suspended, despite the protests of the prosecutor.

Salvation Army Captain William Douglas is convicted of molesting, sodomizing and sexually terrorizing young Indian boys in a village in British Columbia. Douglas was acquitted of similar charges in 1985; the judge said he could not accept that a minister would lie.

Born-again Delaware preacher William J. Keichline, Sr. is commended by the legislature for running Mission of Care ministry for the homeless. As a landlord he assaults and rapes a girl for 3 years starting when she is 7, threatening to evict her family if she tells. He gets eight 20 year prison terms for rape, bondage and child pornography.

Included in the study were prominent clergy and evangelists who had made names for themselves through special ministries or "good works."

The profile of the typical minister charged with molesting children: a 45-year-old man (ages ranged from 24 to 80 at the time of arrest), with 4 to 5 named victims, most often boys in their early teens.

Of all the accused, 37% involved female victims, 58% male victims, and 3.2% children of both sexes. (In 1% of the cases, the sex of the victim was not identified.)

Charges for all 190 cases involved a total of 847 victims. Most ministers, however, were suspected of molesting many other children. Conservatively, the 190 clergy had at least 4,000 other victims, for a low estimate of an average of 21 victims each. These children were not included in charges for pragmatic legal reasons, because they had been molested in other cities and times, or because the statute of limitations had been exceeded. Some estimates were anecdotal based on investigations or confessions by the molester.

Convicted ministers averaged 5 victims each, with 133 ministers molesting at least 651 named victims.

Information on the marital status of Protestants, gleaned from newspaper accounts so therefore incomplete, showed that at least 43% were married. This would dispel the idea that celibacy alone triggers ministerial child molestation. Twelve cases involved clergy charged with molesting their own children, stepchildren, adopted children or foster children.

While many see therapy as a panacea for this crime, only about a third of the convicted ministers and priests had had some kind of counseling or psychiatric evaluation, mandated or otherwise.

Typical Profile

The average age of priests charged last year with sexual abuse of children was 50 years. The range was 35 to 73 years.

The average Protestant minister was 46 years, with a similar range.

Lay Catholics and Protestants charged with sexual abuse were typically caught while in their 30's.

Many Previous Records

Shockingly, 11 out of 46 Protestant ministers charged in 1990 with criminal sexual abuse had prior convictions--almost a quarter of the cases:

All prior convictions were since 1985. Most of the men received light sentences enabling them to return to the pulpit--and continued sexual abuse of children--quickly. Churches are not only failing to check ministers' records, but in some instances are knowingly hiring convicted child molesters.

Five of the 23 nonordained Protestant church workers charged last year had had run-ins with authorities, including one discharged from the Navy for molesting boys.
In 22% of the cases, cover-ups shielding Protestant ministers were reported, in a variety of denominations. These included out-of-court settlements, defrocking a suspected child abuser but not notifying authorities about the abuse, "spiritual support," complicity, congregations applauding accused abusers, and telling reporters "The whole church knows he's not guilty," and "We're solidly behind him." "Satan can get his claws into anyone," said the friend of an Episcopalian rector accused of 73 counts of sodomizing and abusing mentally and emotionally handicapped boys before church functions.

The most blatant cover-up involved a Salvation Army minister who was permitted to keep his job and given continuing access to children after back-to-back arrests for sexually abusing children at the church.

"CHURCH EVANGELIZERS PREYED ON LOW-INCOME KIDS.

Men from a rural Baptist church known for its aggressive evangelizing of children are suspected of molesting as many as 22 boys & girls. The associate pastor, volunteer bus driver & a third church member are believed to have fondled some & raped others, ranging in age from 3 to 10, on church buses & property. Charges involving 10 victims were brought against Associate Pastor Timothy Lee Leonard, 32, of North Sharon Baptist Church near Grass Lake, & volunteer Sunday school bus driver, church deacon Mark Foeller. Three other church members are being investigated. The suspects went to low-income housing projects or trailer parks in 4 counties, telling parents they would "take the children to church & teach them about God", according to Det. Robert Fitzpatrick, Jackson Co. Men would walk up to children in their yards, coaxing them with treats to come to weekend services or summer Bible school. Leonard was relieved of church duties involving children in August, after police started investigating him when a doctor reported suspected abuse in a child with a sexual disease. He also worked as instructor & gym teacher in the North Sharon Christian School, enrolling about 65 students. "
We have to keep our kids _safe_ from Baptist pedophiles!
Buzz Kelly

* BRONSON MINISTER ARRAIGNED.

First Congregational Church minister David Covert Moore was charged with 5 counts of criminal sexual conduct of 4 children under the age of 15. In July he checked himself into Pine Rest Christian Counseling Services in Grand Rapids. Source: Jackson Citizen Patriot 8/29/92.
* AIR FORCE CHAPLAIN RAIDED. Deputies raided the home of Veterans Administration chaplain Rev. Donald G. Phillips, of Butler County, seizing 500 video tapes, movie equipment and restraints following a tip that he produced pornographic movies with young girls. The Baptist minister recently received the highest recognition awarded a VA chaplain, "the Award for Excellence in Chaplain Service". Source:
St. Louis Post-Dispatch 2/19/92.

* BAPTIST VOLUNTEER CONVICTED.

Granite State Baptist Church volunteer David Kirsch, 39, of Salem, was convicted of sexually assaulting 6 young girls through the church from the late 1970s to the mid-1980s.
Source: USA Today 9/25/92.

* MINISTER & GIRLFRIEND INDICTED.

Trenton pastor Franklin Tucker, 37, Final Call Ministry, was indicted for molesting his girlfriend's daughters, 9 & 15. His girlfriend was indicted for forcing her daughters to recant the allegations to police. The abuse came to light when the 9-year-old told a school official, who contacted police. Source: Trenton Times 9/15/92.

* CIVIL SUIT: 11-YEAR-OLD MOLESTED.

A family in Dare County, North Carouna is suing Methodist minister Carl M. Eller for abusing their daughter, 11, as well as the North Carolina Conference of the United Methodist Church, a bishop and a reverend for knowing of his history of sexual misconduct but doing nothing about it. The family says she was molested when her father, a carpenter, was installing cabinets in the parsonage. Eller pleaded no contest to a charge of criminal assault on a female. However, the family said that in 1987 Eller had molested or made lewd comments to 4 women at his church, and forcibly kissed and touched 2 girls age 13. Three women had lodged formal complaints with the church, but the only action was to transfer him from Aurora to Hamlet. Source: News & Observer 1/15/92.

* BAPTIST PASTOR RESIGNS AMID SCANDAL.

Asheville Baptist pastor Michael R. Stewart, 34, of Oakley, resigned following his arrest in a prostitution sting. Stewart's name was among 400 on a full-page ad that month promoting family & traditional biblical values. Source:
Citizen-Times 6/30/92.

* CHURCH SUED FOR NEGLIGENCE.

One of several girls who said Alva minister Rev. Robert Bruce Brigden molested her is suing the First Presbyterian Church for failing to check his background before hiring him. Allegations of sexual crimes were made at his former position in Kansas. Charges allege that he molested Alva church girls, ages 4 to 14. The church posted his bond. Source: _Tulsa Tribune

* PRESBYTERIAN MINISTER GETS 40 YEARS.

Rev. Robert Bruce Brigden was sentenced to 40 years in prison for molesting young girls in his congregation, convicted on 8 counts of lewd molestation & 1 count of rape by instrumentation involving a girl, 7. Bridgen, 57, was accused of molesting 11 girls, aged 4 to 14, during the 4 years he was at the Alva church. His congregation put the church up as bond, insisting he was innocent. He was placed in protected custody. Brigden blamed his arrest on a girl, 4, whose parents were the first to take the children's allegations seriously. "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned," Brigden wrote his wife about the 4-year-old, whom he described as "4 going on 400 years old", saying she invited him to spend the night in her bed, & was mad that he declined. Source: Tulsa Tribune 8/92, Tulsa World 9/3/92, _Daily Oklahoman_ 6/14/92.

* CHURCH VOLUNTEER CHARGED WITH CHILD PORNOGRAPHY.

Church volunteer Seven Jon Long, 41, was arrested for sodomy and taking pornographic pictures of young girls under 12 from Assembly of God Church in Rogue River, where he was a youth volunteer. He told detectives his pictures were art. Source: Daily Courier, Grants Pass, 4/17/92.

* CONVICTED PASTOR "RIGHT WITH LORD".

Rev. Virgil Carpenter, 48, pastor of Bible Missionary Church in Ontario, was convicted of sodomy & sexual abuse of a girl, 9, over a 1-1/2 year period. A jury convicted Carpenter of 2 felony counts of sodomy & 4 felony counts of sexual abuse. He faces 5 additional felony charges in 2 upcoming trials. "I'm really not worried," he told supporters who had gathered in the courtroom before the verdict. "I'm right with the Lord." Source: Corvallis Gazette-Times 10/11/92.

Troubled Newark reverend removed
Sex offender loses Shiloh Baptist post

Wednesday, May 07, 2003
BY WILLIAM KLEINKNECHT
Star-Ledger Staff

A convicted sex offender from Florida who was hired as pastor of Newark's Shiloh Baptist Church has been removed from the position, a state official said yesterday.
Joseph Delmar, spokesman for the state Division of Youth and Family Services, said the church informed the agency that its leaders voted Thursday to remove the Rev. Chavalis T. Williams as pastor.

DYFS was involved because Williams, as pastor, was a board member of Shiloh Rainbow Academy, the church's day care center. The agency had warned the academy that Williams could not be allowed on the day care's premises.
"We have been informed by Shiloh that the Rev. Williams is no longer employed by the church," Delmar said. "Our concerns for the safety of the children have been met."
A number of church members said John Sabb, chairman of the church's board of deacons, informed the congregation of Williams' removal at a special meeting Monday night.
Sabb declined to comment.

In 1999, Williams, then known as Chavalis Bonsell, pleaded guilty to arranging for two teenagers to have sex in front of him and others while working at a facility for troubled teens in Jacksonville, Fla. At the time of his arrest, he was on probation after pleading guilty to an earlier charge of beating his wife.

After pleading guilty to charges of child abuse and using children in a sexual performance, Williams was sentenced to six months in jail and 30 months of probation.
Shiloh's leadership knew he was a registered sex offender in Florida and hired him in mid-March, provoking outrage among some members of the congregation. Many members of the church pressed the leadership to rescind his $45,000 annual contract.

Since being hired, Williams commuted from Florida and had only been at the church on two or three occasions, relying on associate ministers for Sunday sermons. He told the congregation he was planning to relocate to New Jersey.
Williams previously declined repeated requests for a comment on his past and could not be reached yesterday.
The controversy over Williams' pastorship divided the once close-knit church, which is on Davenport Avenue in the city's North Ward and will soon be celebrating its 100th anniversary.

The church's leadership and many members of the congregation strongly supported Williams, a 27-year-old known for his inspiring sermons. Leaders of the church were irate that some members had leaked his past to the media.
But another group felt the church had been taken in by a con artist. They said Williams denied that he was a registered sex offender in Florida when he was confronted by church members and appeared to be trying to collect his pay as pastor without living in New Jersey.

Why weren't these stories given national press coverage? Why is there a coverup of Christian pedophile ministers' crimes against America's children???
193 posted on 06/16/2003 6:21:50 PM PDT by Coleus (God is Pro Life and Straight http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/notify?detach=1)
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To: Desdemona
"Yes, but why did someone have to die?"

I have thought about this for a long time, and what I came up with is this: God doesn't look at death the way we do. To us, every death is a loss. To God, it's a doorway. To the deceased, unless he died in mortal sin, it's also a doorway to a new life. I'm not saying that "God killed the pedestrian," but I am saying that he didn't HAVE to die. If the bishop had been behaving himself, the accident (?) wouldn't have happened, more than likely. The man was jaywalking, but if it hadn't been the bishop, it could very well have been somebody else. I've been on those Phoenix freeways. They are NOT for jaywalking. He didn't have to do that, either.

194 posted on 06/16/2003 6:23:19 PM PDT by redhead
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To: Coleus
So is it covered undered the two wrongs make a right defense?
195 posted on 06/16/2003 6:24:34 PM PDT by sabe@q.com
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To: Aloysius
Yeah, well I wish you would have made that smaller before pulling it in to this thread. It really slows things down.
196 posted on 06/16/2003 6:26:27 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: redhead
I knew someone who was killed on a highway trying to cross it. It's dangerous, I know.

I'm afraid of what the Lord has in mind for Los Angeles.
197 posted on 06/16/2003 6:27:21 PM PDT by Desdemona
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To: rmvh
That was kind of over the top even for cynical me.
198 posted on 06/16/2003 6:27:48 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: Desdemona
It wasn't a freeway... it was on surface streets...
199 posted on 06/16/2003 6:28:44 PM PDT by sabe@q.com
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To: sinkspur
This is a sad story indeed. Could this be a case of age being a problem rather than careless driving.
200 posted on 06/16/2003 6:29:27 PM PDT by devane617
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