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Italian Archaeologist: Anatolia - Home To First Civilization On Earth
Beku Today ^ | 6-20-2003

Posted on 06/22/2003 9:14:54 AM PDT by blam

Italian Archeologist: Anatolia - Home to First Civilization on Earth

Prof. Dr. Marcella Frangipane is trying to convince scientists that Anatolia is the source of civilization on earth, and not Mesopotamia, as historians have claimed.

20/06/2003 13:20

After 13 years of work in the Aslantepe Mound Orduzu, Malatya, Frangipane says the archefacts she uncovered prove that the first civilization was established in Anatolia. According to Frangipane, the swords he found in Aslantepe and the palace, are the oldest in the world. These findings contradict everything in history books. Frangipane held a seminar, accompanied by a slide show, entitled 'Anatolia and Birth of State' for academics at the Turkish Embassy in Rome. While finding her assertions 'striking', Italian experts said they wanted to discuss the subject in a larger scientific forum.

Frangipane's ideas rock Italian and Global scientific circles

With Turkey unable to promote Aslantepe, the first excavations were done by the French in the 1930's. Their research has been continued by Italian Rome La Sapienza University archeologists since 1961. The Italians have covered all the costs, including the hiring of a custodian to protect the artifacts. Frangipane works hard to publicise his findings, which will earn Anatolia a place in history. Turkey, however cannot sufficiently promote it. Aslantepe was a city from 5000BC to 712BC, until the Asyrian invasion, and was later abandoned for a long time. It then became a Roman village from 500 to 600AD, and later the Byzantine necropolis. The first palace in the world was built in Aslantepe in 3350BC. There are storage chambers, a corridor, a courtyard and a temple in the palace.

Zaman / TURKEY


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: anatolia; ancienthistory; anthropology; archaeologist; archaeology; armenia; aslantepe; blacksea; blackseaflood; catalhoyuk; catalhuyuk; civilization; earth; first; ggg; gobeklitepe; godsgravesglyphs; grandcanyon; greatflood; history; italian; noah; noahsflood; origins; prehistory; sanliurfa; turkey
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Some things I know about this region:

* Linguists claim to have traced the origins of all Indo-European languages to this region.

* The fresh water Black Sea was flooded with salt water in 5,600BC. Some speculate that this was Noah's Flood.

* Mount Ararat, where Noah's Ark is supposed to have 'landed' is in the region.

* IMO, this region was inhabited by proto-Celtics in this period.

1 posted on 06/22/2003 9:14:55 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam
You realize that even if he's right, the Islamophiles will never go for it. They've been cozying up the the Religion of Peace for a thousand years. Anti-Semitism is an integral part of EUropean culture. He's asking EUrope to give up it's most cherished notions about their favoritist almost-civilization, Islam.
2 posted on 06/22/2003 9:29:23 AM PDT by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions=Very Expensive, Very SCRATCHY Toilet Paper)
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To: cake_crumb
bump
3 posted on 06/22/2003 9:35:37 AM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: blam
This area is very close to what is now know as Turkish Occupied Kurdistan (TOK).
4 posted on 06/22/2003 9:37:59 AM PDT by Tacis
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To: blam
And what if the underwater city off Cuba turns out to be Mu?
5 posted on 06/22/2003 9:46:35 AM PDT by ASA Vet ("Those who know, don't talk. Those who talk, don't know." (I'm in the 2nd group.))
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To: cake_crumb
I wonder how this bit of information fits into 'their' scheme of things?:

Rainforest Researchers Hit Paydirt (Farming 11K Years Ago In South America)

6 posted on 06/22/2003 9:46:47 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam
* The fresh water Black Sea was flooded with salt water in 5,600BC. Some speculate that this was Noah's Flood.

Think of the civilizations or the ruins thereof that were covered with water when the ocean entered the Black Sea. The Black sea gained something like 300' in depth in a very short time.

7 posted on 06/22/2003 9:48:28 AM PDT by Mike Darancette (Soddom has left the bunker.)
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To: blam
...or this:

Lost Civilisation From 7,500BC Found Off Indian Coast

That's 9,500 years ago.

8 posted on 06/22/2003 9:49:42 AM PDT by blam
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To: Mike Darancette
"Think of the civilizations or the ruins thereof that were covered with water when the ocean entered the Black Sea. The Black sea gained something like 300' in depth in a very short time."

Yup. Ryan & Pittman, in their book, Noah's Flood, estimate that after the break-through, the water of the whole sea rose at the rate of one foot per day.
Most inhabitants would have been able to walk away with most of their animals and what-ever they could carry with them.
They think these hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of refugees streamed up the river valleys and spread farming and the Indo-European language all across Europe.

I've tried to connect these refugees to the 4,000 year old Caucasian mummies found in the Chinese desert. Some have even speculated that they are the same people who became the Ainu in ancient Japan (10K remain today) that replaced the previous Caucasian featured people there known as the Jomon.
BTW, the present day Ainu are the hairiest humans on earth.

9 posted on 06/22/2003 10:06:16 AM PDT by blam
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To: ASA Vet
"And what if the underwater city off Cuba turns out to be Mu?"

The last I've heard about the under water 'city' off Cuba, is that the US state department has convinced The National Geographic Society to pull their $2 million pledge to the search due to the affiliation of the commusnist Cuban government to the group doing the search.

10 posted on 06/22/2003 10:11:06 AM PDT by blam
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To: ASA Vet
"And what if the underwater city off Cuba turns out to be Mu?"

The last I've heard about the under water 'city' off Cuba, is that the US state department has convinced The National Geographic Society to pull their $2 million pledge to the search due to the affiliation of the commusnist Cuban government to the group doing the search.

11 posted on 06/22/2003 10:11:32 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam
It doesn't fit at all. It'll therefore be buried. I've followed the bits and pieces of ancient farming techniques in South America since the first, tantalizing evidence began coming to light around 20 years ago. What happens is the scientific community winds up burying it, because it's outside of the generally accepted theories of the settling of this hemisphere. Science has become so institutionalized that field archeologists have an extrememly hard time getting the scientific establishment to give ANY credence to their ideas. One excuse for this inability to open up to new concepts is the cost of changinf textbooks...no kiddin'.

A case in point is the dinosaurs to birds theory, which took about 25 years to catch on...and though now it's widly accepted there's still a vocal camp that insists it can't possibly be true and Archaeopteryx is a hoax.

Dating civilization in this hemisphere is even worse. We have to get past the EUrocentric notion first of all that nobody set foot in land in this hemisphere more than 10,000 years ago, and they only did THAT by crossing the land bridge in the Bering Straights. Even our plant life is not allowed to be our own, according to conventional wisdom. If you look through the various plant species of North America, it appears that 9 out of 10 are native to EUrope - logic dictates there could have been no functional ecosystem then. So what did the people here live on? Rocks and dirt?? The whole thing is irrational.

This resistance to new evidence and new discoveries is really irritating. It's one of my pet peeves, because the whole debate is just too deeply tied in with politics, and science and politics do NOT mix.

12 posted on 06/22/2003 10:18:59 AM PDT by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions=Very Expensive, Very SCRATCHY Toilet Paper)
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To: cake_crumb
Ancient man probably made it to the Americas by boat -- skirting the coast in search of seals and seafood -- not a trans-oceanic voyage. Just five miles a years would get people to Alaska and points south in practically no time. Such a feat would have been nothing to that the aboriginies, who made it to Australia by boat 60,000 years ago, when the narrowest gap betwen islands would have been 60 miles.
13 posted on 06/22/2003 10:24:40 AM PDT by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
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To: Grand Old Partisan
60,000 years ago?
14 posted on 06/22/2003 10:28:00 AM PDT by ruoflaw
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To: ruoflaw
That's what I've read.
15 posted on 06/22/2003 10:29:17 AM PDT by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
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To: cake_crumb
"This resistance to new evidence and new discoveries is really irritating. It's one of my pet peeves, because the whole debate is just too deeply tied in with politics, and science and politics do NOT mix."

Thanks, you have just summed up one of my biggest irritations too. I constantly challenge the old 'camp.' Leaky declared decades ago that the Calico Site in California is 200,000 years old. (human artifacts)

16 posted on 06/22/2003 10:34:09 AM PDT by blam
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To: Grand Old Partisan; ruoflaw
"Such a feat would have been nothing to that the aboriginies, who made it to Australia by boat 60,000 years ago, when the narrowest gap betwen islands would have been 60 miles."

How about Mungo Man, 68,000 years old modern human in Australia with DNA that does not relate to any humans alive today. Hmmmm

17 posted on 06/22/2003 10:38:20 AM PDT by blam
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To: Grand Old Partisan
Then there's 13,000 year old Arlington Springs Woman in California.
18 posted on 06/22/2003 10:41:28 AM PDT by blam
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To: Grand Old Partisan
"Ancient man probably made it to the Americas by boat -- skirting the coast in search of seals and seafood -- not a trans-oceanic voyage. Just five miles a years would get people to Alaska and points south in practically no time. Such a feat would have been nothing to that the aboriginies, who made it to Australia by boat 60,000 years ago, when the narrowest gap betwen islands would have been 60 miles"

That's the theory I've always subscribed to as the most likely. Of course, don't forget that the "10,000 year" limit was also vigorously applied to Aborigines until recently.

19 posted on 06/22/2003 10:44:07 AM PDT by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions=Very Expensive, Very SCRATCHY Toilet Paper)
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To: Grand Old Partisan; blam
That just boggles my mind....look at what little we know. We have only have a few pieces of a giant puzzle and there is so much more to be discovered.
20 posted on 06/22/2003 10:48:54 AM PDT by ruoflaw
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To: ruoflaw
Infinitely more. For example, just this year, after centuries of observation, scientists discovered that insects respire -- that is breathe in and out -- rather than just let air seep through the shell, as had been assumed.
21 posted on 06/22/2003 10:52:37 AM PDT by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
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To: blam
bump
22 posted on 06/22/2003 11:02:52 AM PDT by VOA
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To: blam
I've tried to connect these refugees to the 4,000 year old Caucasian mummies found in the Chinese desert. Some have even speculated that they are the same people who became the Ainu in ancient Japan (10K remain today) that replaced the previous Caucasian featured people there known as the Jomon.

BTW, the present day Ainu are the hairiest humans on earth.

I didn't know that about the Ainu! Due to my fascination with ancient migratory routes, I find this very interesting. I wonder if there's been any DNA tests and other research to see if there's a link between them and the following people?

"Hypertrichosis is the general name for a group of conditions characterised by either localised or generalised excess hair. Its most extreme form is 'congenital generalised hypertrichosis' or 'hypertrichosis universalis', which medical researchers have traced it to a genetic problem which affects only one extended family in rural Mexico. [snip] ... Many of them seem to come from China, for some unknown reason." [That certainly fits with YOUR theory, doesn't it!!]

[scroll down at the website to read the rest of this.]

http://www.bizarremag.com/ask/freaks.php
Although some might make a connection to Bigfoot in the following article, maybe not. It's about giant, cannabilistic, hairy man-beasts from Native American mythology (maybe THEY are the ones who ate those people that's causing such a controversy in Archaeological/NA circles - and since the scat at the digs is "human", perhaps the mythological creatures were actually hairy men and not beasts.):

http://www.n2.net/prey/bigfoot/sbs/foster.htm

Here's a real person, the Canadian "wolf boy":

http://jaronbs.com/coronation.htm

23 posted on 06/22/2003 11:07:49 AM PDT by JudyB1938 (It's a wild world. There's a lot of bad and beware.)
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To: blam
This omits the inter-glacial societies. The repeaated freeze out migrations into the "Turkic/Holy Land/Babylon" territory is what perfected the "war" gene in we the survivors.

Older findings will surely be discovered off the north coast of Turkey. Perhaps bodies and all.
24 posted on 06/22/2003 11:10:38 AM PDT by SevenDaysInMay (Federal judges and justices serve for periods of good behavior, not life. Article III sec. 1)
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To: JudyB1938
Modern humans have the same number of hair folicles as the present day monkeys/apes. Not all produce hair or at least 'big' hair.
25 posted on 06/22/2003 11:25:16 AM PDT by blam
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To: JudyB1938
cool picture.
26 posted on 06/22/2003 12:11:16 PM PDT by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: blam; JudyB1938
Not all produce hair or at least 'big' hair.

Don't you know that 'big' hair is a genetic trait of redneck Southern women, especially those who host programs on Christian broadcasting networks! Sheesh!! (LOL in case anyone thinks I'm serious).

The so-called "hairy" Ainu were given the name because they have abundant body hair like some Europeans and often have long, flowing beards in contrast to the Japanese people. If they're the "hairiest people on earth" I haven't been able to find a citation to that effect. Here's a comment from a site I just located:

"The Ainu are somewhat taller than the Japanese, stoutly built, well proportioned, with dark-brown eyes, high cheek-bones, short broad noses and faces lacking length. The hairiness of the Ainu has been much exaggerated. They are not more hairy than many Europeans. Never shaving after a certain age, the men have full beards and moustaches, but the stories of Ainu covered with hair like a bear are quite unjustified by facts. Men and women alike cut their hair level with the shoulders at the sides of the head, but trim it semicircularly behind."

Their origin is indeed mysterious but there's abundant evidence that shows they've been in the Japanese islands much longer than the Japanese themselves. Hokkaido and Honshu have many Ainu place names. Even the sacred volcano Fujiyama, is named for their fire goddess Fuji.

Ainu definitely have skins as light as Europeans and lack the Mongoloid epicanthic eyefold which gives Asians the appearance of slanted eyes. Yet to date no one knows where they came from originally. Their language is unlike any other and contains no clues so far as I can tell. DNA tests will probably tell the story some day. Some experts say they definitely have Mongoloid origins but it's unknown whether they may have Caucasoid genes.

27 posted on 06/22/2003 12:22:34 PM PDT by Bernard Marx
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To: Bernard Marx
" They are not more hairy than many Europeans. "

I've only read once and recently that they were the 'hariest humans' on earth. Maybe not, huh?

28 posted on 06/22/2003 12:52:23 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Maybe not, huh?<

The photos I've seen show them as normal-looking people but the men wear long, flowing beards. I think their religious practice of not shaving as adults has led to an exaggerated view of their "hairiness." The sites I visited seem to combine a lot of myth with actual observations.

It's interesting that anthropologist Christy G. Turner III (of Anasazi/Toltec cannibalism renown), an expert on tooth shapes, did a study comparing the teeth of the Ainu and Japanese. His conclusion (some years old now) was that the Ainu teeth are similar to prehistoric Japanese (Jomon?) but that modern Japanese teeth are similar to those of ancient Chinese. I haven't succeeded (so far) in finding any investigations of Ainu DNA. Possible connections with the Caucasion mummies of Tarum, China, are intriguing but so far as I can tell no definite connection has been established.

29 posted on 06/22/2003 2:00:43 PM PDT by Bernard Marx
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To: Bernard Marx
"It's interesting that anthropologist Christy G. Turner III (of Anasazi/Toltec cannibalism renown), an expert on tooth shapes, did a study comparing the teeth of the Ainu and Japanese. His conclusion (some years old now) was that the Ainu teeth are similar to prehistoric Japanese (Jomon?) but that modern Japanese teeth are similar to those of ancient Chinese."

I'm somewhat familiar with the dental work of Christy Turner as David Chatters covered some of it in his book, Ancient Encounters. (Kennewick Man.)

Turner also proved that some of the ancient American Indians practiced cannibalism when he found a mummified corpolite (a turd) that contained human protein.

An interesting aside, the Jomon pottery is called 'cord' pottery and 'cord' pottery has been found in some of the Olmec sites in Mexico.

I've not seen and DNA on the Ainu either. However, Kennewick Man was declared to have a 23% (the majority) Ainu 'element' to his DNA. That would imply that there is Ainu DNA somewhere.

30 posted on 06/22/2003 5:09:12 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

900AD paintings of Tocharians from the caves of the Buddhist Monestary at Bezeklik, Turfnan, central Asia. (Offering bags of money)

31 posted on 06/22/2003 5:35:49 PM PDT by blam
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To: Bernard Marx; blam
A google search revealed several cites with the same statement as blam's. For example:

"An interesting bundle of traits occurs among the Ainu of northern Japan, who have light skin and thick brow ddges [sic], and are the hairiest people in the world."

However, the source you cite sounds reasonable in its assertions.

http://www.msu.edu/course/iss/215/demers/howold.html

On the other hand, I also found this:

"On Murray River in South Australia, they were described as extremely hairy of chest and body, which puts them in a class with western white Europeans, who are probably the world's hairiest people."

http://www.creationism.org/symposium/symp5no1.htm

I also found this:

"Blonde people have the most hair per inch, with an average of 140,000 hairs a head. Brunettes are next in line with an average of 110,000 hairs a head, then come people with black hair with an average of 105,000 hairs a head, and finally redheads, with the least hair averaging 90,000 hairs a head."

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/

My redheaded daughter would certainly dispute that allegation. She has the thickest head of hair I've ever seen. When she was little, I used to thin it out and would get a large grocery bag FULL of hair!
32 posted on 06/22/2003 6:26:30 PM PDT by JudyB1938 (It's a wild world. There's a lot of bad and beware.)
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To: blam
Please be sure to ping me if you find anything about their DNA.
33 posted on 06/22/2003 6:29:58 PM PDT by JudyB1938 (It's a wild world. There's a lot of bad and beware.)
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To: JudyB1938; blam
I just have photographs to go on. From them the Ainu don't appear much hairier than the Hell's Angels who used to pass me on the freeway in Oakland on their way to Sonny Barger's house. In fact, many of the H-A's were hairier (and much scarier!) than any of my Ainu photos!

Maybe the Ainu are descended from Esau. I'll never forget the sketch from Beyond the Fringe, I think by Jonathan Miller, that began: "And Esau was a hairy man..." It was very funny stuff.

I did the same Google as you JudyB1938, but as I mentioned earlier there appeared (to me) to be lots of myth mixed with fact. All the first-person descriptions I can find support the view I posted. Credible anthropologists writing about them say: "The Ainus -- or Hairy Ainus, as they came to be called for their thick and often wavy beards and abundant body hair -- represent a major anthropological enigma." That's for sure! Much science needs to be done but they're rapidly becoming extinct.

BTW, what people were referred to as living on the Murray River in South Australia? Certainly Australian aborigines, not Ainu.

34 posted on 06/22/2003 7:06:33 PM PDT by Bernard Marx
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To: JudyB1938
Interesting site.

Marvin Harris (bless his soul, he died last year at age 74) is one of my favorites and I have a number of his books my favorite of his that I have is Cannibals And Kings. Here's a link to that site.

How Old Are The Races?

35 posted on 06/22/2003 7:10:44 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
you are correct!

i read one of his books in the early 1970s, subsequently re-named and re-issued.

he was making the point then that just as american black men were finally going to get their justice following the civil war, re-construction, and the bigotry of the south, american feminists took the jobs. he said american white men would rather have american white women in their offices than blacks.
36 posted on 06/22/2003 7:14:42 PM PDT by liberalnot (what democrats fear the most is real democracy. /s)
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To: Bernard Marx; JudyB1938

Count Hayahsi, Japanese Minister Of State For Foreign Affairs, 1908. (An Ainu)

37 posted on 06/22/2003 7:15:48 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Bump
38 posted on 06/22/2003 7:16:44 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (~~~ http://www.ourgangnet.net ~~~~~)
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To: Bernard Marx
"From them the Ainu don't appear much hairier than the Hell's Angels who used to pass me on the freeway in Oakland on their way to Sonny Barger's house. In fact, many of the H-A's were hairier (and much scarier!) than any of my Ainu photos! "

Yup. I lived in San Jose for years (I left in 1973). I remember those H.A. characters well.

39 posted on 06/22/2003 7:19:50 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
I lived in San Jose for years (I left in 1973). I remember those H.A. characters well.

I lived briefly in S.J. in 1971 but ended up in San Leandro where I found work a couple of months later. It was always interesting to drive to Oakland along the 580 at 70 mph or so and watch the little specks behind you become H-A's on their choppers. They must have been traveling at least 100 mph. They always got off on Golf Links Road where H-A president Sonny Barger reputedly kept a lion chained in his back yard. It was a colorful time to live in the Bay Area!

40 posted on 06/22/2003 7:31:08 PM PDT by Bernard Marx
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To: Bernard Marx
"It was a colorful time to live in the Bay Area!"

Boy O Boy, That it was.

I think 580 was hwy-17 in those days. I still tell people about a sign that was once at the hwy-17 and 101 interchange. The sign looked like a bowl of spaghetti and said 'MINGLE', no kidding.

My only child (Dr blam) was born in San Jose hospital in 1968. He presently lives in Glendora.

41 posted on 06/22/2003 7:43:50 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
I think 580 was hwy-17 in those days.

As I remember, Hwy 17 was the 'Bloody Nimitz.' The 580 a.k.a McArthur, runs to the east, roughly connecting Hayward and Oakland via pretty green rolling hills. The Angels on their bikes and in their 'colors' seemed jarringly out of place in that upscale environment. I guess their 'business' interests enabled them to buy real estate wherever they wanted to. As for the sign at the Nimitz and 101, I don't recall it specifically but I certainly came close to "mingling" on it any number of times. That was (and maybe still is) one scary freeway!

42 posted on 06/22/2003 8:38:46 PM PDT by Bernard Marx
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To: blam
Monday morning bump.
43 posted on 06/23/2003 6:46:52 AM PDT by blam
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To: Bernard Marx; blam
No, BM, I didn't mean the Aussies weren't Ainu. I merely cited that article as an example that there's other people who have also been called the "most hairiest". I also cited it as perhaps a common denominator in the "hairy people" dispersals.

I laughed at that picture, Blam. Going bald certainly doesn't qualify as hairy. LOL But I still can't get where they say those people don't have slanted eyes. They look like "Asian Eyes" to me.

I also became amused at the link you sent. It's the same one that I used to back up what you said. That's funny.

BTW, I was at the feed store today. TheY have a tail and mane shampoo for horses. I was thinking it'd be good for all that hair on my St Bernard. The guy told me that his WIFE won't use anything else on her own hair and has turned others onto the trick. It's said to be especially good for "hairy people". (grin)
44 posted on 06/23/2003 2:28:09 PM PDT by JudyB1938 (It's a wild world. There's a lot of bad and beware.)
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To: blam
PS National Geographic has a nice piece in July's issue about China.
45 posted on 06/23/2003 2:30:30 PM PDT by JudyB1938 (It's a wild world. There's a lot of bad and beware.)
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To: JudyB1938
"The guy told me that his WIFE won't use anything else on her own hair and has turned others onto the trick. "

I've heard that for years from women. In fact, I think the human usage drove up the price some.

46 posted on 06/23/2003 2:40:15 PM PDT by blam
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To: JudyB1938
"LOL But I still can't get where they say those people don't have slanted eyes."

I agree. That's the only picture I could find of someone that claims to be Ainu. I've seen others that don't look asian at all.

I've read some speculation that the original Samurai were these tall, hairy and light skinned people and that they were the original 'royals.' ...and, that the Japanese custom of 'white face' was the Asian types way of emulating the appearance of the royals. Also, there are supposedly ancient paintings of the Samurai that depict these people and the Japanese keep these paintings in hiding. Even so, I've seen pictures of Samurai with full beards and real hairy leggs.

47 posted on 06/23/2003 2:49:57 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
I think you posted that one time about the "white face". That sure makes sense to me. Stuff isn't done just for funsies. There's some kind of realty behind it.
48 posted on 06/23/2003 4:15:55 PM PDT by JudyB1938 (It's a wild world. There's a lot of bad and beware.)
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To: blam; JudyB1938
That's the only picture I could find of someone that claims to be Ainu. I've seen others that don't look asian at all.

Try this one. I can't post it because it's copyrighted:

http://phototravels.net/japan/pcd0733/ainu-full-93.html

Realize that there are very few full-blooded Ainu left. They are vanishing through interbreeding with Japanese. Consider how few full-blooded African blacks remain in the U.S. or South America, and how often they exhibit mixed-race physical features.

The web site where you found the images of the Count and the Tocharians is...um...interesting. Given its rather obvious bias I'm inclined to give its objectivity a lot of Kentucky windage. But even it agrees with my point that the Ainu are called "hairy" only in contrast to the rather hairless Japanese.

49 posted on 06/24/2003 10:52:44 PM PDT by Bernard Marx
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To: blam
bump for tomorrow
50 posted on 06/24/2003 11:00:46 PM PDT by Ditter
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