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Scalia: What a massive disruption of the social order this ruling entails.
US Supreme Court ^ | June 26, 2003 | nwrep

Posted on 06/26/2003 7:37:38 PM PDT by nwrep

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1 posted on 06/26/2003 7:37:38 PM PDT by nwrep
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To: *Reverse Racism; *SCOTUS_List; *SASU; *Homosexual Agenda; *Paleo_list
PING
2 posted on 06/26/2003 7:40:31 PM PDT by nwrep
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To: nwrep
Thank God for Justice Scalia. If Bush decides to play ethnic politics and appoints a liberal like Alberto Gonzales, he will have lost my vote and the votes of millions of others.
3 posted on 06/26/2003 7:41:36 PM PDT by Holden Magroin
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To: nwrep
Printing this out for a later read, thanks for the post, I am a Scalia groupie!
4 posted on 06/26/2003 7:41:44 PM PDT by apackof2 (Listen much, talk little, learn greatly)
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To: nwrep
Thanks for posting!

Really want more Republican Senators in 2004 so we can make Justice Scalia the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. That is one nomination that the Republicans in the Senate need to go to the matresses over.

We need to get rid of the activist Justices!

5 posted on 06/26/2003 7:41:59 PM PDT by PhiKapMom (Bush Cheney '04 - VICTORY IN '04 -- $4 for '04 - www.GeorgeWBush.com/donate/)
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To: Fzob
bump
6 posted on 06/26/2003 7:44:57 PM PDT by JZoback (Don't have such an open mind, your brain falls out)
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To: PhiKapMom
Uh, I just skimmed it and Scalia talks about anti-miscegenation laws.

He also seems to make the argument that if a bunch of politicans get together and make a law that deprives you of liberty(in this case sodomy) that this does not violate due process.

Antonin, buddy, pal, due process is applied to an individual for a discrete event(prison time for crime, eminent domain, etc) NOT for permanent deprivation of liberty for an entire class of persons until the law is repealed.

Man, this guy loves the State.
7 posted on 06/26/2003 7:45:13 PM PDT by Skywalk
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To: Skywalk
He loves the Constitution. He is a great man.
8 posted on 06/26/2003 7:47:50 PM PDT by tomahawk
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To: PhiKapMom
Scalia does not want to legitimize homosexual behavior..

They have succeeded .

9 posted on 06/26/2003 7:48:06 PM PDT by prognostigaator
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To: nwrep
Oh my God, this guy's a genius...
10 posted on 06/26/2003 7:49:16 PM PDT by SunStar (Democrats piss me off!)
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To: nwrep
Wasn't that tiff we had in 1861 about state's rights? Sounds like another one bit the dust!
11 posted on 06/26/2003 7:49:37 PM PDT by Steely eyed killer of the deep
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To: Skywalk
Buggery does not equal liberty. Libertine-ness maybe.
12 posted on 06/26/2003 7:49:54 PM PDT by tomahawk
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To: tomahawk
Actually, I think he is a great mind, in that we agree.

He loves the Constitution in a limited fashion. He loves "order" way too much to be considered a true constitutionalist. Many of his decisions would have been abhorrent to the Framers(though not all of them, I imagine.)
13 posted on 06/26/2003 7:50:46 PM PDT by Skywalk
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To: nwrep
Good for Scalia! This decision opens the door for pedophiles, beast lovers and other deviants that can now consider this precedent for their "private behaviors."

Is it just me, or do the hoards of liberals praising this decision ever consider that it is the very same court that they criticized for the 2000 election, and this decision is by the very margins that they decry in that same election? Does this mean that they must now accept President Bush as the legitimate winner of the 2000 election? They must, in order to embrace this decision. Somehow, I think liberal hypocrisy will rule the day.

14 posted on 06/26/2003 7:51:01 PM PDT by SpinyNorman
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To: nwrep; All
just FYI: Does anyone know what property is? Property can be the property of ones person, the property of ones opinion and thoughts, the property of ones rights, and so on. Property does not just mean "thing".

BTW Pursuit of happiness could easily have been written as Pursuit of property. In law school the vulgar varient was life, liberty, and the pursuit of shopping.
15 posted on 06/26/2003 7:51:59 PM PDT by longtermmemmory
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To: tomahawk
Strange that you determine what equals liberty.

How are you DIRECTLY negatively impacted by two men having sex? And is that act any less repugnant than say, a heterosexual orgy? Should we start arresting people for anything they do when agreeing to an act?

People are either sovereign over their bodies or they are not.
16 posted on 06/26/2003 7:52:14 PM PDT by Skywalk
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To: nwrep
He's almost as good as Walter Willians, but I could do without the latin. Talking about pandering to the legal culture.
17 posted on 06/26/2003 7:52:37 PM PDT by Rodsomnia
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To: Skywalk
He also seems to make the argument that if a bunch of politicans get together and make a law that deprives you of liberty(in this case sodomy) that this does not violate due process. Antonin, buddy, pal, due process is applied to an individual for a discrete event(prison time for crime, eminent domain, etc) NOT for permanent deprivation of liberty for an entire class of persons until the law is repealed. Man, this guy loves the State.

Skywalk, you got it. Thanks!

18 posted on 06/26/2003 7:52:37 PM PDT by RealEstateEntrepreneur
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To: SpinyNorman
its the gore principle. It just depends on the ox.
19 posted on 06/26/2003 7:52:48 PM PDT by longtermmemmory
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To: Skywalk
He is a slave to stare decisis, and supports everything which makes me despise the USSC as an atrociously lazy bunch of folks..

He could do a lot to support changing the methodology regarding cases accepted, and could advocate a shorter, clearer method of issuing opinions on cases they accept. The vast majority of cases that they reject, but which are clear injustices could be resolved with a single paragraph and citation.

Frankly, the USSC has become the legal writing venue where baby lawyers decide what gets accepted, then write 60 page opinions justifying their beliefs.

20 posted on 06/26/2003 7:54:34 PM PDT by Chancellor Palpatine (Winning flame wars on the net is like winning a medal at the Special Olympics)
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To: nwrep
I'm convince that the Supreme Court has lost its moral authority to interpret the Constitution of the United States, not just from this decision, but from many recently where it seems the justices decide what answer they wish to give then look to the law and the Constitution only as justification for the already-decided opinion, rather than what justices *should* do which is to look first at the Constitution and the law and see what it directs.

IOW, the Court appears to be ack-bassword in the decision-making process and it explains why so many of their decisions appear to be political compromises rather than judicial interpretation.

It's truly a shame that the Court seems to embrace the "living Constitution" concept liberals have championed whether they care to admit it or not.

21 posted on 06/26/2003 7:56:21 PM PDT by Tall_Texan (Why aren't we checking the DNC for WMDs?)
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To: RealEstateEntrepreneur
I don't know maybe I'm nutty, but THAT seems to be Scalia's argument.

People's property does not only include their car and house. It's also their own persons. They have a right to do what they will with them, with the exception of violating the same right of others.

Buggery does not violate my rights. Therefore it is not under the rightful jurisidiction of any government.

As for whether the state has infinite rights to make laws, just because it is partially sovereign...NOPE. Any law that does not conform to the supreme law of the land is invalid. Hello, if they made Jews wear the Star of David in Massachusetts, that doesn't make it a valid constitutional law.

If Scalia really is saying what it seems he is, he apparently has less understanding of the original intent of the Framers than I do. That's just sad.
22 posted on 06/26/2003 7:56:22 PM PDT by Skywalk
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To: tomahawk
He has never read the freakin constitution, or he would have said,"We have no authority to rule on this.."

Find legal evidence to the contrary. I dare you.

I am sick to G_D of these frikkin' hypocrites.

IT IS THE LAW, not a polite suggestion.

23 posted on 06/26/2003 7:58:46 PM PDT by patton (I wish we could all look at the evil of abortion with the pure, honest heart of a child.)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
Find out who the law clerks of these justices are. I will bet dollars to donuts the Justice's law clerks wrote the majority opinion(s). (would not be surprised if the writing clerk was a homosexual. Now THERE is a news scandal story. Does any news story have the fortitute to delve into that possiblity?)
24 posted on 06/26/2003 7:58:51 PM PDT by longtermmemmory
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To: nwrep
SCOTUS rulings are so far beyond our Constitution limits on federal power that 5 justices are no longer in "good behavior". These rulings are just that because our representative republic would never expand federal powers like a cancer, colon cancer.

Congress must reign in the jurisdiction of SCOTUS to only matters of Constitutional law within the limits of our Constitution.

Our Constitution means what it says, not what some blackrobes purport society should be.
25 posted on 06/26/2003 8:00:15 PM PDT by SevenDaysInMay (Federal judges and justices serve for periods of good behavior, not life. Article III sec. 1)
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To: longtermmemmory
The judiciary is rife with homosexuals. The judge in my divorce was gay, there is even a gay judges association. What about that Souter guy?
26 posted on 06/26/2003 8:03:09 PM PDT by Rodsomnia
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To: nwrep
I've been what you call a "lurker" for a long time. But today I'm angry. VERY ANGRY! So I signed up so I can vent.

In it's decision today, the supreme court has, emphatically and unequivocally, said that the the moral perspective of bible-believing Christians is illegitimate for the making of law in the United States. In other words, MY VOTE DOESN'T COUNT!!!

I've been disenfranchised!

27 posted on 06/26/2003 8:03:14 PM PDT by disenfranchised
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To: Skywalk
People are either sovereign over their bodies or they are not.

They're not! Never have been. The state passes all sort of laws to outlaw many things that we do with our bodies, prostitution, suicide, drug use, etc.

28 posted on 06/26/2003 8:05:23 PM PDT by Sci Fi Guy
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To: nwrep
Abortion on demand and sodomy is OK.

Things sure have changed since I grew up in the 1950s.
29 posted on 06/26/2003 8:07:43 PM PDT by buffyt (FREEPING IS SERIOUS FUN! BEWARE THE ADDICTION! (There is no known cure))
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To: Skywalk
If Scalia really is saying what it seems he is, he apparently has less understanding of the original intent of the Framers than I do. That's just sad.

Yeah, the Framers were real big on buggery. That's why they included it in the Bill of Rights.

30 posted on 06/26/2003 8:12:41 PM PDT by Patangeles
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To: Sci Fi Guy
organ selling....
31 posted on 06/26/2003 8:13:27 PM PDT by longtermmemmory
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To: Patangeles
A tangent: A lawyer was telling the woman who wanted to wear her 1 inch cross necklac to get a job someplace other than with the school system which prohibited non-pc jewelry. Why didn't these same liberals tell the homosexuals to move to a pro-soddomy state like vermont? hypocracy.
32 posted on 06/26/2003 8:15:53 PM PDT by longtermmemmory
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To: Skywalk
" Many of his decisions would have been abhorrent to the Framers"

If the Framers were in favor of allowing unnatural relations, how is it that none of them ever said anything against the anti-sodomy laws of their day? Obviously, it's today's SCOTUS majority decision that would have been abhorrent to the Framers.

33 posted on 06/26/2003 8:16:58 PM PDT by cookcounty
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To: Sci Fi Guy
So? That's my point isn't it?

Didn't it take a Constitutional AMENDMENT to bring about the Prohibition?

34 posted on 06/26/2003 8:24:51 PM PDT by Skywalk
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To: nwrep
State laws against bigamy,same-sex marriage,adult incest,prostitution,masturbation,adultery,fornication, bestiality,and obscenity are likewise sustainable only in light of Bowers ’ validation of laws based on moral choices.. Every single one of these laws is called into question by today ’s decision;the Court makes no effort to cabin the scope of its decision to exclude them from its holding.
No more watching COPS on Saturday night when they sting prostitutes, or drug deals. Claim "consenting adults" and maybe you can get away with any crime!! Imagine 2 guys masturbating each other outside the school! They are in their car & are consenting adults. You can't touch this. Don't call the police.
35 posted on 06/26/2003 8:27:00 PM PDT by jrushing
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To: cookcounty
That may or may not be true.

That does not mean that Scalia's OTHER decisions relating to law enforcement would not be abhorrent to them. I was very clear about what decisions I was talking about.

And yes, they would have found THOSE decisions abhorrent(at least most of them.)

36 posted on 06/26/2003 8:28:33 PM PDT by Skywalk
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To: Patangeles
Are you idiotic enough to think that the BoR is a "grant" of your rights?

They didn't include heterosexual oral sex in their either. Guess there's no right to eat white bread, because it's not in the BoR.

What a moronic argument.
37 posted on 06/26/2003 8:29:23 PM PDT by Skywalk
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To: Sci Fi Guy
The state passes all sort of laws to outlaw many things that we do with our bodies, prostitution, suicide, drug use, etc.
All of that has been done away with! All It takes is consenting adults so said the SCOTUS.
38 posted on 06/26/2003 8:30:13 PM PDT by jrushing
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To: Skywalk
He also seems to make the argument that if a bunch of politicans get together and make a law that deprives you of liberty(in this case sodomy) that this does not violate due process.

Constitutionally, his argument is sound. The determination about the sodomy law is, properly speaking, not for the federal government to make or to impose. As with abortion, it is one that is properly determined in the legislatures and courts of the respective states. That typically means that some states will decide one way and some the other. To date, Texas' legislature has stood by the existing law and its courts have upheld it. That is not so in some other states, as is their respective right to determine. But by ruling as the court did in this case, they assumed the power of determining that particular policy into the federal government. For that reason, if nothing else, the ruling is an atrocity.

Man, this guy loves the State.

For opposing the assumption of another power by the federal government? Your reasoning is bizarre.

39 posted on 06/26/2003 8:30:21 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist
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To: nwrep
To ALL of you who are pontificating that the state has NO RIGHT to control DEVIANT behavior....

Remember this: What is the MAIN means of AIDS transfer in the Western World? Homosexuality.

If anyone in this country had any guts back even before Reagan (including Reagan) the AIDS epidemic could have been halted in its tracks in the Western World (RACIST!!)

It could have been halted in Africa also by the same means. But there is someone (plural) who does NOT wish to see AIDS halted.

AIDS/SARS/etc. etc being the antibiotic resistant pneumonias and other virus that are prolific in the HOMOSEXUAL communities and parts of Africa and the Caribe.

This SC decision is onl the start of the deviancy epidemic that WILL include pedophilia, bestiality, and the rest of the ANTI-HUMAN practices of the (The only word that describes it accurately) EVIL!
40 posted on 06/26/2003 8:32:22 PM PDT by steplock ( http://www.spadata.com)
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To: Holden Magroin
BUSH WILL BE HELD TO THE FIRE BUT GOOD ON THIS ONE...

........

We must hold President George W. Bush to his pledge to appoint men like Antonin Scalia to the Supreme Court. And we must accept nothing less.


,,,,,,,,,
For them, the ends justify the means. Log Cabin Republican President Patrick Guerriero—a so-called Republican who claims to revere the U.S. Constitution—admitted as such in a memorable exchange with Pat Buchanan on MSNBC’s Buchanan & Press:

GUERRIERO: …We support an overturning of the remainder of sodomy laws across the country...

BUCHANAN: [Via] judicial fiat?

GUERRIERO: I don’t care how.

All of the gay activists thrilled over the Court’s action in Lawrence v. Texas have contributed to the erosion of this republic’s founding principles. The U.S. Supreme Court has disgraced itself by ignoring the Tenth Amendment and going along with the gay lobby. Justice Scalia, in his dissent, articulated this sentiment well:

“The court has largely signed on to the so-called homosexual agenda… The court has taken sides in the culture war.”

Indeed it has. And we conservatives must reverse this. How? We must hold President George W. Bush to his pledge to appoint men like Antonin Scalia to the Supreme Court. And we must accept nothing less.

BY Joseph J. Sabia


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/936264/posts?page=
41 posted on 06/26/2003 8:34:06 PM PDT by TLBSHOW (The Gift is to See the Truth)
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To: Skywalk
"Didn't it take a Constitutional AMENDMENT to bring about the Prohibition?"

Nope. It took a Constitiutiional amendment to make Prohibition the NATIONAL law of the land. There were plenty of dry towns and dry counties and even dry states BEFORE "Prohibition," and those "dry laws" were NOT found unconstitutional (nor are they now).

42 posted on 06/26/2003 8:34:22 PM PDT by cookcounty
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To: GOPcapitalist
In essence, the Constitution was to limit the power of not only the federal governments but ALL governments.

If a state oversteps its bounds, it is in the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court to rule that such a law is unconstitutional.

You know, lots of blacks have a great fear of "state's rights" because it became a euphemism for unlawful forced segregation even of state institutions(and unlawful forced segregation upon PRIVATE institutions, as well.)

If we defend a state's rights to oppress citizens or make ridiculous laws that would render the majority of its citizens criminals, then we will lose credibility on the real issues.
43 posted on 06/26/2003 8:36:32 PM PDT by Skywalk
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To: cookcounty
You're right.

ANd Dred SCott was nothing but property to, according to a Supreme Court of the 1800s.

What is SHOCKING is that this very Supreme Court issued a decision that was far more important but is getting far less attention.

Also shocking is the fact that this very Supreme Court has ruled time and time again in FAVOR of expanded police powers.

WHERES THE OUTCRY FOR THAT?

Just because someone decided at one point that something was "constitutional" does not make it correct. Heck, even the Founders were unconstitutional from time to time. The issue is to be CONSISTENT, not slavishly worship one man or group of men or one institution.

44 posted on 06/26/2003 8:39:14 PM PDT by Skywalk
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To: jrushing
Maybe watching people get arrested for consensual crimes arouses your fascist impulses, but some of us believe such laws to be ridiculous and against the very spirit of liberty.
45 posted on 06/26/2003 8:40:24 PM PDT by Skywalk
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To: Skywalk
How are you DIRECTLY negatively impacted by two men having sex?

Two men having sex (and hetrosexual anal sex) spreads disease. Since medical problems, and their costs have been socialized, it affects me directly in the pocketbook.

Prostitution should remain illegal for similar reasons - it causes societal and medical problems.

But this ruling can easily be used to cover "comercial" sex - why not?

46 posted on 06/26/2003 8:44:41 PM PDT by GregoryFul
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To: Skywalk
Maybe watching people get arrested for consensual crimes
Maybe you didn't read your words. "Consensual crimes" implies crime. Some people should be arrested for crime. Or Do you think that crime shouldn't be punished?
47 posted on 06/26/2003 8:47:50 PM PDT by jrushing
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To: TLBSHOW
I heard on the radio the fact that the US has always recognized Canadian marriage licences. So the question remains what
happens when two homosexual Candians get married and move to the US? At this time it would seem that the US would have
to treat them as married. This will create havoc and unless states add laws protecting from this(X50+) then it will just be a fact
of life. But then if the states do so then what will the SC say? It is a real mess comming very soon.
48 posted on 06/26/2003 8:54:22 PM PDT by Revel
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To: jrushing
Perhaps the crime of helping escaped slaves should be punished too?

And perhaps beating your slave or your child isn't a crime?

You are a legalist and not a defender of freedom. By your standards, anything that gets passed(except of course any law against owning guns..or maybe u're for those too) is law and moral.

Good thing brave men disagreed with you.

Remember the Stamp Act?
49 posted on 06/26/2003 8:56:10 PM PDT by Skywalk
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To: GregoryFul
I'm willing to bet that non-commercial sex between men and women spreads far more disease than prostitution or gay sex.

In fact, I'd guarantee it.
Also, in localities with legal prostitution(provided there are basic health checks) the disease rate is almost nil. Contrast that with runaway disease rates in places where prostitution is illegal.

Did you know that prostitution was even legal in Singapore, that authoritarian paradise?

BTW, what you are essentially doing is deciding that because a person MIGHT be involved in a societally detrimental result, they are essentially guilty of it prior to commission.

Guess you feel the same way about guns too eh?
50 posted on 06/26/2003 8:58:47 PM PDT by Skywalk
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