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What happened to the Tenth Amendment?
Sierra Times ^ | 01/23/03 | Robert Greenslade

Posted on 06/27/2003 5:29:27 PM PDT by Djarum

What happened to the Tenth Amendment?
By Robert Greenslade
Published 01. 23. 03 at 20:39 Sierra Time

As the federal government continues to unlawfully expand its powers beyond those granted by the Constitution and transform itself into the national form of government rejected by the Founders, many constitutionally astute Americans are asking "what happened to the Tenth Amendment?" Since its adoption in 1791, the Tenth Amendment has been viewed as a barrier to any attempt by the federal government to overstep its constitutional authority. The Amendment states:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

If the Amendment reserves every power not delegated to the federal government to the States or the people, then it follows that the Constitution established a federal government of limited enumerated powers. This system of government, coupled with the additional restraint enumerated in the Tenth Amendment, was designed as an impregnable shield to protect the States and the American people from any abuse of power by the federal government.

Federal politicians, driven by the acquisition and retention of power, discovered that the prohibition enumerated in the Tenth Amendment only applies when the federal government attempts to exercise a power not delegated by the Constitution. It cannot be invoked to prohibit Congress from exercising a lawful power granted by the Constitution. This gave the politicians an idea. If they could get their political appointees in the federal judiciary to redefine or expand the scope of existing provisions in the body of the Constitution, they could circumvent the additional limitations placed on their power by the Tenth Amendment. This is precisely what has happened.

During President Franklin Roosevelt's "New Deal" assault on the Constitution, his administration did not want to expose its power grab to the scrutiny of the States and the American people. He needed to find a way to acquire more power without resorting to the amendment process outlined in Article V of the Constitution. His administration, using the threat of a Court packing scheme, succeeded in getting the United States Supreme Court to judicially amend two key provisions in the body of the Constitution. The unconstitutional modification of one of these provisions has given the federal government virtually unlimited power over every aspect of human existence in the United States and all but nullified the Tenth Amendment.

Commonly known as, the Commerce Clause, this provision grants Congress the power to "regulate commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes…"

In his 1913 book, The Framing of the Constitution, Max Farrand explained, in part, why this provision was incorporated into the Constitution:

Pending a grant of power to congress over matters of commerce, the states acted individually. A uniform policy was necessary, and while a pretense was made of acting in unison to achieve a much desired end, it is evident that selfish motives frequently dictated what was done. Any state which enjoyed superior conditions to a neighboring state was only too apt to take advantage of that fact. Some of the states, as James Madison described it, 'having no convenient ports for foreign commerce, were subject to be taxed by their neighbors, through whose ports their commerce was carried on.'... The Americans were an agricultural and trading people. Interference with the arteries of commerce was cutting off the very life-blood of the nation and something had to be done.

During the debates in the Federal [Constitutional] Convention, Oliver Ellsworth stated:

The power of regulating trade between the States will protect them against each other.

James Madison reiterated this point in the Convention as follows:

[P]erhaps the best guard against an abuse of the power of the States on this subject, was the right in the General Government to regulate trade between State and State.

The purpose of the words "regulate commerce…among the several States" was to establish a free trade zone between the several States. This provision granted Congress the power to make regular, commerce between individual State and individual State. The power enumerated pertains to the several States. It did not grant Congress the general power to control individuals or private business engaged in commerce.

The emergence of the Commerce Clause as a "new" source of federal power was addressed in a speech by Alfred Clark before the Oregon Bar Association on September 2, 1943. Mr. Clark stated, in part:

Today, in a very real sense, law no longer governs the American people. They are governed by regulations, orders and directives issued by one or the other of our multiple Federal bureaus. I am not now referring to war regulation and the like, but to conditions existing before the war, and which, unless the trend is checked, are likely to continue and to intensify after the war is over.

This has been accomplished, to a very large extent, through a new and, in many aspects, a startling interpretation of the commerce clause of the Federal Constitution, which is now being used to obliterate the States and convert our system into a highly centralized form of government, exercising uncontrolled police power in every State, over all, or nearly all, local affairs and industries.

The commerce clause of the Constitution is now pressed into service as the basis for asserting the power of unlimited control and all regulation of all local and State affairs.

Mr. Clark stated that through a startling new interpretation of the Commerce Clause, the federal government was attempting to obliterate the system of limited government established by the Constitution and regulate every aspect of human existence throughout the United States. What was this new interpretation he was referring to?

In order to answer this question, it is necessary to return to Mr. Clark's speech. After discussing several decisions by the Supreme Court, Clark explained the chain of causation, as defined by the Court, to be followed in determining what is interstate commerce under the "new" interpretation. He used the following example to illustrate the danger of the decisions by the Court:

This may sound to you like a soporific nursery rhyme. Not so. On the contrary it is modern judicial logic…

Indeed, if Junior decides to emulate Popeye and insists upon a double portion of spinach at the dinner table, thus increasing the demand on the market, and lessening the supply to meet the demand, his act may so affect interstate commerce as to bring him within the ambit of Federal control.

The simple act of consuming food, according to decisions by the United States Supreme Court, can be used by the federal government as a pretense to bring an individual within the scope of federal control. Under this rewrite of the Constitution, the federal government can regulate, or criminalize, any activity that substantially affects, or has the potential to substantially affect, interstate commerce.

If this sounds like an outburst from a deranged mental patient, then consider the following statements by Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas in a concurring opinion in U. S. v. Lopez (1995):

We have said that Congress may regulate not only 'Commerce…among the several states,'…but also anything that has a 'substantial effect' on such commerce. This test, if taken to its logical extreme, would give Congress a 'police power' over all aspects of American life.

Under our jurisprudence, if Congress passed an omnibus 'substantially affects interstate commerce' statute, purporting to regulate every aspect of human existence, the Act apparently would be constitutional.

Justice Thomas went on to state that under the substantially affects interstate commerce test adopted by the Court, "[c]ongress can regulate whole categories of activities that are not themselves either 'interstate or commerce.'"

Since it is impossible to discuss all of the legislation that has been passed under the perversion of the Commerce Clause, the author decided to provide a brief example of how the federal government has used this clause to circumvent the Tenth Amendment.

The Constitution does not grant the federal government the power to regulate firearms or firearm owners within the several States. Under the Constitution, there are no general federal firearms crimes within the States. Thus, if the federal government attempted to enforce one of these statutes, the offended individual should be able to successfully invoke the prohibitions enumerated in the Tenth Amendment.

In the recent Emerson case, that was hailed by the firearms community as a victory for the Second Amendment, Mr. Emerson's attorney attempted to invoke a Tenth Amendment defense. He claimed the federal statute being applied against his client "unconstitutionally usurps powers reserved to the states by the Tenth Amendment." This assertion was constitutionally correct. However, the Court rejected this argument because the Commerce Clause is a delegated power and the Amendment cannot be invoked to prohibit Congress from exercising a power granted by the Constitution.

Contrary to the pronouncements from the firearms community, the Emerson case was actually a huge loss for firearm owners because the Court sustained the federal government's power to unconstitutionally impose criminal sanctions on firearm owners through the Commerce Clause.

Most firearm owners are unaware of the real issue in the Emerson case. Mr. Emerson was prosecuted because, while under a restraining order issued by the State of Texas, he "unlawfully possessed 'in and affecting interstate commerce' a firearm, a Beretta pistol, while subject to the above mentioned September 14, 1998 order, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(8). It appears that Emerson had purchased the pistol on October 10, 1997, in San Angelo, Texas, from a licensed firearms dealer." If you look at the statement by the Court, Emerson was prosecuted because he was in possession of private property that allegedly moved in interstate commerce years before his "so-called" crime.

This should be a wake-up call for the firearms community. If Congress wanted to ban or criminalize the possession of all firearms throughout the several States, it could simply adopt a statute that made it unlawful to possess a firearm that moved in, or affected, interstate commerce. The definition of interstate commerce is now so broad that such a law would affect every firearm and every firearm owner in the United States.

If this unconstitutional expansion of federal power through the Commerce Clause is not halted and reversed, the federal government will eventually obliterate the system of limited government established by the Constitution and seize total control of every aspect of life in the United States. And, since the Commerce Clause is a delegated power, the American people will not be able to invoke the Tenth Amendment to protect them.

Article Source



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial
KEYWORDS: billofrights; commerceclause; tenthamendment
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I couldn't find this posted.
1 posted on 06/27/2003 5:29:27 PM PDT by Djarum
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To: Djarum
What happened to the Tenth Amendment?

Activist judges on the USSC have used to the 14th Amendment to overturn the 10th. When you hear that some law will be the first to overturn one of the Bill of Rights, that's wrong. The 10th has already been overturned by stretching the 14th beyond its original meaning.

2 posted on 06/27/2003 5:35:12 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: Djarum
What happened to the Tenth Amendment?

It died at Appomatox, in 1865.

3 posted on 06/27/2003 5:39:36 PM PDT by LibKill (MOAB, the greatest advance in Foreign Relations since the cat-o'-nine-tails!)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: Djarum
Inquiring minds _do_ want to know: what happened to the Ten Amendment? On my visit to the local law library, I could see the case histories on all of the other (original Bill of Rights) amendments were very large. The Ten Amendment had only 3 cases! Obviously, not a very _popular_ amendment with local judicial systems or the Federal government in general. ;-}
5 posted on 06/27/2003 5:53:03 PM PDT by veracious
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To: Djarum
It's dead Jim.
6 posted on 06/27/2003 5:54:28 PM PDT by evad (Hitlary..lying..It's WHAT she does, it's ALL she does and she WON'T stop...EVER!!)
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To: Djarum
Je$uS H F'in ChR!$t We can't even agree on the meaning of "IS" how the hell could we agree on that Horse Hockey.

Excuse me while I go say my penance.

7 posted on 06/27/2003 6:04:47 PM PDT by Falcon4.0
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To: Djarum; All
For those unfamiliar with the work of Max Farrand, his monumental work, The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787 are the definitive scholarly work on the intent of the framers of the Constitution, superceding even The Federalist Papers.
8 posted on 06/27/2003 6:05:33 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
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To: Carry_Okie
superceding even The Federalist Papers.

The Federalist papers were just propaganda for a bait and switch.

9 posted on 06/27/2003 6:36:42 PM PDT by AdamSelene235 (Like all the jolly good fellows, I drink my whiskey clear....)
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To: Djarum
It has been replaced with the CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO PRIVACY or should I say the GOD given, constitutionally protected RIGHT TO PRIVACY! < /sarcasm >
10 posted on 06/27/2003 6:39:54 PM PDT by PISANO
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To: FreedomCalls
Just try to fight it. It's a foregone conclusion.
11 posted on 06/27/2003 6:40:47 PM PDT by Patangeles (If it ain't in the Constitution, it's up to the several states.)
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To: Sir Gawain
ping
12 posted on 06/27/2003 6:41:54 PM PDT by Djarum
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To: Djarum
"However, the Court rejected this argument because the Commerce Clause is a delegated power and the Amendment cannot be invoked to prohibit Congress from exercising a power granted by the Constitution."

If this statement is true, then Congress can use it's "delegated power," via the commerce clause, to regulate what is printed in newspapers across the country, in spite of what the 1st amendment states that "Congress shall make NO law...abridging the freedom...of the press."

It is the other way around. The Bill of Rights is the final brake and the check on Congress' "delegated power."

13 posted on 06/27/2003 6:43:05 PM PDT by tahiti
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To: FreedomCalls
"The 10th has already been overturned by stretching the 14th beyond its original meaning."

This is a correct statement.

But the good news is that we still have the 9th amendment.

That is the real forgotten amendment.

14 posted on 06/27/2003 6:44:28 PM PDT by tahiti
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To: Djarum; All
Folks, either the Constitution is powerless to prevent the kind of government we have today or it was deliberately designed to create a nearly unlimited government.

Which is it?

What do we do now?

15 posted on 06/27/2003 6:49:35 PM PDT by AdamSelene235 (Like all the jolly good fellows, I drink my whiskey clear....)
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To: Djarum
Commonly known as, the Commerce Clause, this provision grants Congress the power to "regulate commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes…"

This question is just for fun (ok- it's stupid): Suppose we accept that the commerce clause trumps the tenth amendment rendering States powerless to protect citizens; Now if all 50 States morphed into one big State, would the commerce clause cease to prevail and correspondingly would the10th amendment then limit the Federal Government?

We just need one State with an identical constitution as the federal constitution.

Please minimize any abusive responses - its Friday after a long week.
16 posted on 06/27/2003 6:50:16 PM PDT by reed_inthe_wind
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To: AdamSelene235
I don't disagree entirely, but like all cryptic documents that are the product of bipolar advocacy, the intents of its respective disparate interests are revealed between the lines of such boosterism, just as they are in the Anti-Federalist.
17 posted on 06/27/2003 6:51:42 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
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To: reed_inthe_wind
We just need one State with an identical constitution as the federal constitution.

States don't make treaties or coin money.

18 posted on 06/27/2003 6:53:04 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
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To: AdamSelene235
What do we do now?

Nothing but a neo revolutionary war will stem this TIDAL WAVE known as the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. We all know that will NEVER again happen because most of the country relies in one way or the other on the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

It's TOO LATE...... but to listen FOR WHOM THE BELL TOLLS!!

19 posted on 06/27/2003 6:57:12 PM PDT by PISANO
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To: Carry_Okie
The Founders hated the Bill of Rights. Newspapers that offered Anti-Federalist views were bought out and silenced. The majority of them opposed it. When the minority made a stink over the matter they grudgingly threw the people a carefully sabotaged document.

The Founding Lawyers were designing their future jobs and they wanted unlimited power.

The Constitution was created by the elite to secure power over a rowdy illiterate mob. The system was specifically designed to preserve government power even against the wishes of the people.

The real revolutionaries, like Patrick Henry, held the Constitutional Convention in utter contempt and refused to attend.

20 posted on 06/27/2003 6:57:31 PM PDT by AdamSelene235 (Like all the jolly good fellows, I drink my whiskey clear....)
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To: tahiti
The 9th Amendment is as dead as General Franco.

Other than one mention in a concurring opinion in Griswold v. Connecticut, nobody can find the 9th cited anywhere in a SCOTUS opinion.
21 posted on 06/27/2003 6:58:08 PM PDT by You Dirty Rats
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To: Bisesi
Nothing but a neo revolutionary war will stem this TIDAL WAVE known as the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

That's a losing game. Violence will only make the people cry out for a man on horseback who will "save" them.

Just look around you.

22 posted on 06/27/2003 6:59:05 PM PDT by AdamSelene235 (Like all the jolly good fellows, I drink my whiskey clear....)
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To: Djarum
What happened? This...
Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section. 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section. 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section. 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section. 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

-14th Amendment to the US Constitution

Section 1 largely gutted the 10th Amendment.
23 posted on 06/27/2003 6:59:50 PM PDT by Redcloak (All work and no FReep makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no FReep make s Jack a dul boy. Allwork an)
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To: Djarum
The other thing that the Feds do is "Matching funds". I'm not sure what the legal basis for this is. But they control state behavior a tremendous amount through the power of being able to tax the citizenry and then return the funds to the states on the condition that the state bows to the feds wishes.

In my opinion, matching funds that are conditional on the state doing something that is not one of the delegated powers should be unconstitutional.

24 posted on 06/27/2003 7:02:28 PM PDT by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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To: Bisesi
I didn't believe those who came before me at that time, but I can see it now.
25 posted on 06/27/2003 7:04:04 PM PDT by Patangeles (If it ain't in the Constitution, it's up to the several states.)
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To: Redcloak
But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Does anybody see anything different than I see? Does anyone see where a woman has a right to vote?

26 posted on 06/27/2003 7:10:48 PM PDT by Patangeles (If it ain't in the Constitution, it's up to the several states.)
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To: Patangeles
That's the 19th Amendment. Amendments amend the whole Constitution, not just the original sections. Thus the 19th amends the 14th just as the 14th amends the 10th.
27 posted on 06/27/2003 7:14:59 PM PDT by Redcloak (All work and no FReep makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no FReep make s Jack a dul boy. Allwork an)
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To: Patangeles
It's time to face the facts people, the US Constitution has been overhtrown. They are just getting us used to the fact that we are no longer governed by the constitution, when we sign on to Kyoto, it will be complete.
28 posted on 06/27/2003 7:16:31 PM PDT by John Lenin (Government does not solve problems, it subsidizes them)
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To: Djarum
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,...

The time is coming..


29 posted on 06/27/2003 7:27:34 PM PDT by texson66 ("Tyranny is yielding to the lust of the governing." - Lord Moulton)
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To: John Lenin
It's time to face the facts people, the US Constitution has been overhtrown.

The Founding Lawyers never wanted to protect liberty if they did they would have done so. Everything the government is doing to us today is perfectly Constitutional.

They are just getting us used to the fact that we are no longer governed by the constitution, when we sign on to Kyoto, it will be complete.

Did you know that it only takes two senators and the president to ratify a treaty and that a treaty has equal legal footing with the Constitution itself.

Thats where all the enviromental authority comes from. People have been prosecuted and convicted of duck hunting by the Feds for essentially violating a treaty we signed with Britian !! No consent of the governed required.

30 posted on 06/27/2003 7:28:10 PM PDT by AdamSelene235 (Like all the jolly good fellows, I drink my whiskey clear....)
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To: texson66
Man, what is about physicists seeing things as they are?
31 posted on 06/27/2003 7:30:21 PM PDT by AdamSelene235 (Like all the jolly good fellows, I drink my whiskey clear....)
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To: AdamSelene235
Your profile is tremendous. I find your posts somewhat at odds with it however, if I understand you correctly. Oh, well, that's worth what you paid for it--nothing.
32 posted on 06/27/2003 7:32:18 PM PDT by jammer
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To: jammer
I find your posts somewhat at odds with it however, if I understand you correctly.

Then you don't understand me correctly.

33 posted on 06/27/2003 7:33:11 PM PDT by AdamSelene235 (Like all the jolly good fellows, I drink my whiskey clear....)
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To: AdamSelene235
Think about whats going on right now, we just created the largest entitlement program since the Great Society and we are getting tax cuts to boot. Is W trying to bankrupt the US ?
34 posted on 06/27/2003 7:35:54 PM PDT by John Lenin (Government does not solve problems, it subsidizes them)
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To: Djarum
As my late uncle said, "You got what you wanted, but you lost what you had."

This applied to those who held and pointed to the X Amendment to cover nefarious and unconstitutional intentions. Had the Constitution been applied equally to all citizens after the passage of Amendments XIII-XV, I believe the Tenth would still be in play today.

Can we get it back? I'd like to think so, but I'm not overly optimistic about the chances.

35 posted on 06/27/2003 7:40:24 PM PDT by rdb3 (Nerve-racking since 0413hrs on XII-XXII-MCMLXXI)
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To: AdamSelene235
Did you know that it only takes two senators and the president to ratify a treaty and that a treaty has equal legal footing with the Constitution itself.

The "two-thirds of senators present" problem is why I am a big advocate of amending Article VI to say "two-thirds of all Senators." However, I cannot agree that treaties have equal footing with the Constitution, especially those multilateral treaties that allow signatories to change the treaty after the fact. There is case law to that effect.

36 posted on 06/27/2003 7:40:52 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
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To: John Lenin
It is extremely rare for a President to have even the foggiest understanding of economics. Reagan probably had the best understanding we've had in a while but the net result of his improvements was to prolong the patient's agony.

Clinton was also very economically savy, but he used his knowledge to serve his own interests not the nation's.

I don't think Bush knows a call from a put. Is he trying to bankrupt the nation? No. But he might as well be.

37 posted on 06/27/2003 7:42:37 PM PDT by AdamSelene235 (Like all the jolly good fellows, I drink my whiskey clear....)
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To: FreedomCalls
Activist judges on the USSC have used to the 14th Amendment to overturn the 10th. When you hear that some law will be the first to overturn one of the Bill of Rights, that's wrong. The 10th has already been overturned by stretching the 14th beyond its original meaning.

The expansive use of the Commerce Clause and general Welfare Clause is the main villain, IMO.

Commerce Clause corruption has given us a huge, expensive, and intrusive bureaucracy which exercises powers not delegated to it by the Constitution.

The gun grabbers are now advocating use of the CC to "regulate" gun sales.

38 posted on 06/27/2003 7:48:31 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: AdamSelene235
Has anyone mentioned how we are going to pay for the new drug program ? Maybe a new tax cut will pay for it.
39 posted on 06/27/2003 7:50:07 PM PDT by John Lenin (Government does not solve problems, it subsidizes them)
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To: veracious
The Third Amendment (quartering troops) had case history? IIRC, it has never been argued in an American Court.
40 posted on 06/27/2003 7:50:15 PM PDT by Teacher317
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To: Carry_Okie
However, I cannot agree that treaties have equal footing with the Constitution, There is case law to that effect.

Missouri v. Holland 1920

"No doubt the great body of private relations usually fall within the control of the State, but a treaty may override its power.

A careful reading of Reid v. Covert 1956 reveals that the only real limits on treaty power are the partitioning of States (without their consent) and a head-on contradiction of the Constitution. If you understand the Bill of Rights, you will know that very little protection is offered by them.

For instance, troops *can* be quartered in your home, in a time of war (thats now folks) if in a manner "prescribed by law" (wanna bet that a treaty with Liberia counts?).

You can be searched without a warrant so long as its not an "unreasonable" search. That includes much of your car under the Terry doctrine.

41 posted on 06/27/2003 7:56:36 PM PDT by AdamSelene235 (Like all the jolly good fellows, I drink my whiskey clear....)
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To: John Lenin
Has anyone mentioned how we are going to pay for the new drug program ? Maybe a new tax cut will pay for it

Stand by, a supply sider will be along shortly to flap his hands and talk about the Laffer curve.

42 posted on 06/27/2003 7:59:20 PM PDT by AdamSelene235 (Like all the jolly good fellows, I drink my whiskey clear....)
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To: AdamSelene235
A careful reading of Reid v. Covert 1956 reveals that the only real limits on treaty power are the partitioning of States (without their consent) and a head-on contradiction of the Constitution.

The Convention on Nature Protection and Wildlife Preservation in the Western Hemisphere is just such a treaty.

43 posted on 06/27/2003 8:00:11 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to be managed by politics.)
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To: Carry_Okie
Enlighten me.
44 posted on 06/27/2003 8:03:25 PM PDT by AdamSelene235 (Like all the jolly good fellows, I drink my whiskey clear....)
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To: Djarum; Skibane; jlogajan; AdamSelene235; coloradan; jimt; freeeee; Pahuanui; tdadams; ...
Ping for how we got to the mess we are in.
45 posted on 06/27/2003 8:05:07 PM PDT by gcruse (There is no such thing as society: there are individual men and women[.] --Margaret Thatcher)
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To: rdb3
Had the Constitution been applied equally to all citizens after the passage of Amendments XIII-XV, I believe the Tenth would still be in play today.

Perhaps, but we still would be in deep trouble.

The Constitution was a rigged deck from the get go.

The Founding Lawyers were smart and human, all too human.

Almost every "abuse" today is perfectly Constitutional just as the Founders intended.

46 posted on 06/27/2003 8:08:29 PM PDT by AdamSelene235 (Like all the jolly good fellows, I drink my whiskey clear....)
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To: AdamSelene235
Almost every "abuse" today is perfectly Constitutional just as the Founders intended.

They had a revolution to make way for another oppressive government?

47 posted on 06/27/2003 8:13:19 PM PDT by Djarum
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To: AdamSelene235
I will respond to this as if you are not being cynical. I have copies of the Congressional Record from 1941 showing that what I say in this excerpt is true:
The Convention on Nature Protection must be read to be believed. In his summary report to a distracted Senate, Executive Report No. 5, April 3 1941, Secretary of State Cordell Hull misrepresented its virtually unlimited scope. From the Preamble (bold emphasis added): “The Governments of the American Republics, wishing to protect and preserve in their natural habitat representatives of all species and genera of their native flora and fauna, including migratory birds, in sufficient numbers and over areas extensive enough to assure them from becoming extinct through any agency within man’s control;” After going on at considerable length about wilderness areas and national parks, they come back with this language in Article V Section 1: “The Contracting Governments agree to adopt, or to propose such adoption to their respective appropriate law-making bodies, suitable laws and regulations for the protection and preservation of flora and fauna within their national boundaries but not included in the national parks, national reserves, nature monuments, or strict wilderness reserves referred to in Article II hereof.” All species, all land, no limits to the commitment. Mr. Hull made no mention of the scope of Article V in his summary (that he submitted to the Senate -CO). It was he who, upon Roosevelt’s approval, convened the Planning Commission that created the United Nations soon after the adoption of this treaty. It is a document that exceeds the constitutional authority of the government of the United States.

It can’t work either. This treaty is contrary to natural law.

Nature is a dynamic, adaptive, and competitive system. Under changing conditions, some species go extinct, indeed, for natural selection to operate, they must. The problem arises when human influence grows so powerful that one can always attribute loss of a species to being “within man’s control.” When humans ask, “Which ones lose?” the treaty specifies, “None,” and demands no limit to the commitment to save them all. This of course destroys the ability to act as agent to save anything, much less objectively evaluate how best to expend our resources to do the best that can be done.

This treaty cannot be satisfied: It calls for a halt to natural selection, itself.

A government that derives power from an impossible genetic status quo is incapable of a solution. This is a system that assumes protection and preservation work. It gives agencies of government unlimited monopoly power to manage all land use as if that would help. It supposes that agencies are experts interested only in fulfilling their mandate. It dedicates unlimited tax resources for protection of an unlimited number of species and their genera. It invokes itself across the entire nation. It assumes that destroying an economy will benefit native species. How would we then fund the effort to do better?

Frankly, it is a treaty that exceeds the authority or power of any government. Its requirements cannot be met.
48 posted on 06/27/2003 8:16:24 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to be managed by politics.)
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To: AdamSelene235
Almost every "abuse" today is perfectly Constitutional just as the Founders intended.

Enlighten me. I've read Farrand, BTW, and am now working on Thomas Cooley's A Treatise on the Constitutional Limitations Which Rest Upon the Legislative Power of the United States of the American Union. Cooley would dispute your assertion.

49 posted on 06/27/2003 8:20:21 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to be managed by politics.)
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To: Teacher317
The Third Amendment (quartering troops) had case history? IIRC, it has never been argued in an American Court.

Ahhh, the Third Amendment. It means what it says and it says what it means. It leaves very little room for the left to maneuver it into meaning something else.

Engblom v. Carey, 677 F. 2d 957 (2d Cir. 1982), on remand, 572 F. Supp. 44 (S.D.N.Y.), aff'd. per curiam, 724 F.2d 28 (2d Cir. 1983).

It is probably the most successful amendment as it has totally prevented the action it so plainly prohibits.

50 posted on 06/27/2003 8:21:53 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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