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China-Cuba/US-Taiwan tit-for-tat
yahoo.comnews/ Asia Times ^ | June 22, 2001 | Dalia Acosta, Inter Press Service

Posted on 07/08/2003 1:28:48 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

July 7, 2003
Cuban President Fidel Castro (R) shakes hands with Li Changchun, member of the Chinese Politburo Standing Committee, prior to a meeting at the Cuban State Council in Havana, July 7, 2003. Cuba and China are holding meetings to strengthen political and commercial ties. REUTERS/Rafael Perez

______________________________________________________________

June 22, 2001 HAVANA - Military relations between Cuba and China that allegedly extend to arms sales to this Caribbean island nation as well as joint intelligence activity has heightened tension between the two socialist nations and the United States.

Reports refuted by Beijing and Havana have appeared in the US media since Chinese President Jiang Zemin's visit to Cuba in April. "For over 30 years, Cuba has not imported any weapon from China," Cuban President Fidel Castro said on Tuesday night on a special program broadcast by Cuba's state-monopolized TV. Sun Yuxi, spokesman for China's ministry of Foreign Relations, had already stated that reports claiming his country was selling arms to Cuba were totally unfounded.

Citing a US intelligence report, the Washington Times reported on June 12 that at least three boats carrying explosives and other weapons had been traced from China to the Cuban port of Mariel in the past few months. According to the newspaper, China was taking advantage of Cuba's proximity to the United States to carry out electronic espionage to intercept US communications.

The government of President George W Bush is "very much concerned with this PLA [People's Liberation Army] cooperation [with Cuba] and movement of military equipment into Cuba", James Kelly, Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs, said at a subcommittee hearing in the US House of Representatives.

However, US State Department spokesman Phil Reeker denied on June 12 that the government had reports confirming the allegations set forth by the Washington Times. Senate Republican leader Trent Lott said that if the allegations were confirmed, it would not be a good sign for China.

China, the United States' fourth biggest trading partner, with a bilateral trade flow that stands above US$110 billion, could be subjected to economic sanctions for selling weapons to Cuba, which Washington includes on its list of countries that engage in state-sponsored terrorism.

Chinese military assistance to Cuba is limited to logistical support like radars and anti-aircraft equipment, according to intelligence sources cited by the daily El Nuevo Herald, which is published in Spanish in Miami, a stronghold of the anti-Castro Cuban exile community.

Jason Feer, the publisher of CubaNews, a US-based on-line newsletter on Cuba, wrote in the June issue that it "seems unlikely that China would risk a major confrontation with the United States by supplying advanced weaponry that the United States would view as threatening". He added that China saw Cuba more as a "convenient bargaining chip in its ongoing rivalry with the United States". Furthermore, said Feer, China sees its relationship with Cuba as analogous to the United States' ties to Taiwan, which Beijing considers a renegade province.

In April, the Bush administration approved the sale to Taiwan of eight diesel submarines, 12 P-3C Orion anti-submarine aircraft, four Kidd destroyers and other weapons, along with the corresponding technical training. Meanwhile, three US missiles were tested Wednesday in Taiwan.

Beijing criticized Bush's decision to sell advanced weaponry to Taiwan as "meddling" in China's internal affairs, and said it reserved the right to take measures.

The row over US arms sales to Taiwan compounded the tension triggered by the April 1 emergency landing of a US spy plane in China, after it collided with a Chinese military plane.

The geopolitical differences between Beijing and Washington also arise from China's intention to counter, and if possible eliminate, the United States' predominant military presence in southeast Asia, especially in the South China Sea.

US analysts say military aid to Havana is a response to Washington by Beijing, which is also taking advantage of this island's geographic location for carrying out surveillance activities.

But Castro maintained on Tuesday that high-level officials from China and Cuba who met in December in Havana did not reach any agreement on weapons sales. The president also said a report was available which showed that the three Chinese ships that docked in Cuba were carrying food like rice and beans - "weapons to kill the appetite", he joked - building materials, and medical equipment.

He confirmed that the first shipment, which arrived May 10, 2000, was indeed destined for the armed forces, but consisted of donations of olive green drill, cotton and polyester cloth, white nylon material for mosquito screens, boots, buttons, thread and needles.

According to Castro, since the 1990 collapse of the east European socialist bloc which triggered Cuba's decade-long severe economic troubles, this country has not invested "a single cent" in weapons purchases. The years of military aid from the former Soviet Union had guaranteed an endless supply of firearms and "industrial-scale quantities of ammunition" to make sure any "invader" would have to pay "an unpayable price if they were unfortunately that stupid", said Castro.

Havana also maintains the capacity to set up a network of anti- tank and anti-personnel mines in case of a US military attack, the president added.

(Inter Press Service)


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Cuba; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: communism
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 07/08/2003 1:28:48 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Well, anyone up to deposing Castro?
2 posted on 07/08/2003 3:44:38 AM PDT by dr_who_2
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To: All

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3 posted on 07/08/2003 3:45:54 AM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; harpseal; archy; StriperSniper; hchutch; ppaul; Mudboy Slim; goldilucky; ...
bump
4 posted on 07/08/2003 4:35:01 AM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Military relations between Cuba and China that allegedly extend to arms sales to this Caribbean island nation as well as joint intelligence activity has heightened tension between the two socialist nations and the United States.

If China wants to throw money down that hole, I say go for it. The weapons then send will be second rate, even for China, and intel they gather will be unimpressive.

More likely, they are trying to work the psychological angle against us. I don't really think that will take. No one's taken Cuba seriously as a security threat for forty years. Most Americans think of Cuba as just another poor, backwards dictatorship. Barring any more nuclear weapons shipments, Cuba is a joke as a national security threat.

Taiwan, on the other hand...

5 posted on 07/08/2003 5:35:20 AM PDT by Steel Wolf (The slow blade penetrates the shield.)
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To: Steel Wolf
Time to see a fresh face in Cuba. A republic-minded one.
6 posted on 07/08/2003 6:01:57 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
no matter what the ChiComs may be, I'm sure they are not stupid (or suicidal) enough to arm the Cubans in order to give the US an excuse to attack them...

Confucius had said," he who bait fierce Tiger in front door of Tiger's house deserves to be torn to shreds..."

and the ChiComs do heed Confucius,.....
7 posted on 07/08/2003 6:11:51 AM PDT by The Pheonix
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
I agree, but there is nothing that China can do to stop that now. I say let them spend all the money they like on Castro, because he can't take it with him.
8 posted on 07/08/2003 6:15:05 AM PDT by Steel Wolf (The slow blade penetrates the shield.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; belmont_mark; HighRoadToChina; Travis McGee; Dukie; joanie-f; RonDog; ...
More shades of Dragon's Fury as the PRC continues to strengthen its influence in the Caribbean and the western hemisphere.
9 posted on 07/08/2003 8:26:39 AM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Thanks TGJ, this is just more shades of Dragon's Fury as the PRC continues to strengthen its influence in the western Hemisphere.

As they extend their influence further into the Caribbean from the canal zone and central America, it's something we should all be concerned about IMHO.

10 posted on 07/08/2003 8:28:33 AM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: Steel Wolf; Tailgunner Joe
Well, there are some interesting pieces coming together here - Veneuzelan dictator Hugo Chavez swaps oil with Cuba for "military advisors", Cuba can sell it elsewhere and buy weapons. So this might be a good time for the Chicoms to get in touch if they want to sell them.

I'm not sure what the point would be since Chicom weapons are not exactly state of the art -- especially the ones they'd be willing to send Cuba.

I'm wondering if this might really be in support of Hugo Chavez and the "advisors".

D
11 posted on 07/08/2003 8:55:23 AM PDT by daviddennis (Visit amazing.com for protest accounts, video & more!)
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To: Steel Wolf; Cincinatus' Wife
<< Most Americans think of Cuba as just another poor, backwards dictatorship. >>

Most Americans think of "china" as just another poor, backwards dictatorship.

And we're right on both counts.
12 posted on 07/08/2003 11:26:04 AM PDT by Brian Allen ( Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
And we're doing business with China? I say there should be an embargo against all Chinese goods shipped to the U.S. In our buying Chinese products, we're just supporting their military.
13 posted on 07/08/2003 11:44:31 AM PDT by goldilucky
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To: daviddennis; Poohbah
A lot depends. How bad is the PRC's liquidity? The problem with Marxist nations, and the PRC is fundamentally a Marxist nation, is that their economic statements tend to be about as reliable as Enron's balance sheet turned out to be.
14 posted on 07/08/2003 2:56:49 PM PDT by hchutch (The National League needs to adopt the designated hitter rule.)
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To: Brian Allen; maui_hawaii
A "poor backwards" country with the world's largest printed circuit fabrication plant, an increasingly world class laser industry, and, road mobile IRBMs and ICBMs. Where are our road mobile strategic missiles?
15 posted on 07/08/2003 3:16:20 PM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Un-PC even to "Conservatives!" - Right makes right)
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To: Steel Wolf
Wake up. Castro has been working Latin America for years. The threat is no longer just Cuba.
16 posted on 07/08/2003 3:19:16 PM PDT by Eva
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To: Eva
Ah, okay, I'm awake. What are you talking about?
17 posted on 07/08/2003 4:00:21 PM PDT by Steel Wolf (Sarcasm: Don't leave home without it.)
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To: Steel Wolf
Try this article for a starter.
18 posted on 07/08/2003 4:05:45 PM PDT by Eva
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To: Eva
Whether or not Venezuela, Cuba or French Guyana fall to military dictatorships or not, it won't affect our national security. Its depressing and frusterating that the people of central and south America are saddled with so much corruption and oppression, but they simply aren't a threat to us.

Taiwan, on the other hand, is a mortal threat to China. As long as Taiwan exists, rich, free and happy, the PRC government looks like a bunch of screwups. It is no secret in China how the Taiwanese live, and the younger generation doesn't have any of the communist baggage of the older folk. They're far more inclinded to say 'hey, it works in Taiwan, lets do it here'. Once that day comes, and the older generation has lost its grip on power, the Communists are done for.

19 posted on 07/08/2003 4:20:41 PM PDT by Steel Wolf (Sarcasm: Don't leave home without it.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe; aristeides
I found it odd that Ann Coulter neglected, in Treason: Liberal Treachery from the Cold War to the War on Terrorism, to mention the PLA's '96 support of Clinton.
20 posted on 07/08/2003 6:05:50 PM PDT by Wallaby
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To: dr_who_2; Cincinatus' Wife
Well, anyone up to deposing Castro?

Por seguro.


¿Puede usted ahora oírme?


Sí, puedo oírle.

SPLAT!

21 posted on 07/08/2003 6:37:04 PM PDT by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: belmont_mark; maui_hawaii; FreepForever; Enemy Of The State
<< A poor backwards country with the world's largest .... >>

.... population of medieval slaves and a per capita income of less than $500.00 per annum.

Get real.
22 posted on 07/09/2003 8:55:16 AM PDT by Brian Allen ( Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Brian Allen
I am real. These are facts. Do you dispute them? Come on, right now punk..
23 posted on 07/09/2003 10:15:40 AM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Un-PC even to "Conservatives!" - Right makes right)
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To: belmont_mark; HighRoadToChina; Paul Ross; Orion78; lavaroise; Noswad
Ping.
24 posted on 07/09/2003 10:19:13 AM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Un-PC even to "Conservatives!" - Right makes right)
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To: belmont_mark
I agree with your assessment of China's advancements in ICBMs, laser tech etc

They are producing 500,000 Hi-tech engineers and technicians every year.

and this Brian Allen calls them "medivael slaves"? Japanese engineers who cannot find employment in Japan, are willing to work in China at Chinese wages. Now, why would Japanese want to be "medivael slaves", we wonder?????????
25 posted on 07/09/2003 10:25:06 AM PDT by The Pheonix
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To: belmont_mark
<< These are "facts." >>

Bullshit. They are the exceptions that prove the rule. >>

<< Do you dispute them? >>

Yes.

Me and reality.

Dream on.
26 posted on 07/09/2003 10:32:46 AM PDT by Brian Allen ( Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: belmont_mark
Is the pheonix by any chance related to the phoenix?

Or is he a chi-comm lickspittle/shill too.



27 posted on 07/09/2003 10:35:38 AM PDT by Brian Allen ( Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Brian Allen
whatever

at least I am trying to be more objective, and trying to contribute towards the forum's discussion by bringing in real facts and data thru links,etc

At least I am NOT a hate-filled pcycho, just ranting away standard 1950s propaganda type slogans

Plse do something about those pathological hatred before the stomach explode or something
28 posted on 07/09/2003 10:45:23 AM PDT by The Pheonix
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To: belmont_mark
Paul Wolfowitz,"China almost certain to be a Superpower"

It is not just you and me and millions of other guys who says that China is developing very fast in the military, the Sciences, the industrial etc .

None other than the US Deputy Secy of Defense ,Paul Wolfowitz, had said in a 2002, Wash Times inetrview, that, "China will almost certain to become a SUPERPOWER, within the next quarter, to half Century, and that's fast, by Historical standards". And the Wash Times, said, "and the Secy of Defense, Don. Rumsfeld agreed with this assessment". These assessments were based on studies done by the US Dept of Defense, Pentagon, US War College, CIA, NSC, Dept of Commerce etc

Now, of cource, Brian Allen will call them all "Chicom's spittle-lickers" or something like that
29 posted on 07/09/2003 10:57:42 AM PDT by The Pheonix
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To: The Pheonix
Of course, it is possible that Mr. Allen is, himself, an ErBu man, sent here as an agent provacateur. On the other hand, he could simply be a poorly travelled guy who wouldn't know Bao An from Beijing. Look, I'm no friend of Red China, but, as Sun Tzu wrote, know your enemy.

Now here is an interesting article from a guy I know named Walt Custer and a few of his friends. Note, this was from 3 years ago, so figure accordingly:

Click here.

I view this as symbolic of what is happening overall in the Red Evil Empire - they are building the 21st century Ruhr there while we turn ourselves into a Wal Mart based economy feeding the maw of a mega NEP (Lenin would have been proud...). And like the 1930s Ruhr, while they bring in cash to enrich their key Citizens (forget about all the poor rural folks, they are nothing but cannon fodder, conscriptees and cheap labor for all the new plants) they also use the cash and the new R&D and industrial capability to build a war machine. Since the signing of the 7/16/2001 Axis Treaty with Moscow, it has formally become a joint venture (covertly, it had already been going on for some time.). The means of making war are being put in place. Now here is another interesting perspective:

Click here.

To cap things off, here are more facts of the Viasystems plant: Viasystems Kalex Printed Circuit Board Ltd. Guangzhou City, Guangdong Province, PRC 1.9 million square feet of current mfg space 750K sqaure feet of future expansion 6000 "employees" (how many PLA?), Capacity - 1.4 M square feet per month, Maximum fab: 32" x 48"x0.5" (8 plus layers; this thickness could accomodate many more than 8, e.g. 20 plus).

Similar new factories for every other type of commodity and military supply item are springing up left and right; much of it financed by Western dupes.

30 posted on 07/09/2003 12:43:52 PM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Un-PC even to "Conservatives!" - Right makes right)
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To: Brian Allen
The most dangerous thing is you appear to be no friend of the ChiCOMs and yet you grossly underestimate their capabilites and seem unaware of what they are up to. See my related post above. As for my comment about road mobile missiles, I will give you an answer; we've got none. Whereas, the PLAAF have an increasing number of TELs with cold launched DF21s (most recently, able to load MIRVs). By the way the DF21 also has a SLBM version. Increasingly, on the other hand, the US no longer has a triad and relies solely on Sub'd and siloed ICBMs for strategic missiles. We no longer maintain effective air launching, most of our cruise missiles have been converted to conventional and we no longer keep intercontinental bombers on standby. Between the PRC, the restive Russians and the arming Pakistanis, Iranians and others we face new arms race that we have not even recognized let alone started running in. Instead, we continue to disarm and naively believe we'll only face small regional contingencies, rogue states and terrorists. What we fail to realize is all of these are mere diversions.
31 posted on 07/09/2003 1:00:07 PM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Un-PC even to "Conservatives!" - Right makes right)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; tallhappy; Black Jade; Travis McGee; Jeff Head; belmont_mark
China sees its relationship with Cuba as analogous to the United States' ties to Taiwan, which Beijing considers a renegade province.

That analogy is so full of holes, it is beyond ridiculous. Oh, so to avoid 'interfering in our internal affairs' they are they going to give us a 'pass' on invading Cuba to restore it to the great motherland...if we just stand-aside as they blockade/bomb/invade Taiwan??? A quid pro quo? Seems rather implausible.

32 posted on 07/09/2003 1:31:47 PM PDT by Paul Ross (From the State Looking Forward to Global Warming! Let's Drown France!)
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To: Brian Allen
Actually most people earn about 300 to 400 RMB per month in the smaller provincial cities.
33 posted on 07/09/2003 3:22:57 PM PDT by Enemy Of The State (If we don't take action now, We settle for nothing later!)
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To: Paul Ross
you are absolutely correct to say that the logic put forward by the above news article is absurd

BTW, the NYT, in a few months ago, had said that , the Chinese Govt, is becoming more moderate on the US position on Taiwan, and is "prepared to accept the fact that the US do have a legitimate interest in Taiwan, and is willing to take into consideration, US sensitivity on Taiwan"
34 posted on 07/09/2003 8:05:16 PM PDT by The Pheonix
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To: belmont_mark
<< yet you ... seem unaware of what they are up to. >>


Thank you for even further illustration of the depth of your insight.

I live in Asia and have for most of the past 40 years and am at this moment sitting within a 30 minute flight of "china." I speak mandarin, Hokkien and Cantonese and have trained pla "pilots" [In "china" they're the ones in the pilot costumes at the pointy end of the aeroplane] in all aspects of advanced aviation -- and half of my family is of Chinese ethnicity.

I know what they're "up to."

And I know both "china's" capabilities and its limitations.

And as of today and into the forseeable future -- notwithstanding its evil and that [Outside of the State Department and hitlery cli'ton's office] we have no more determined enemy on Planet Earth -- "china's" limitations trump its "capabilities."

And we are on to it and are on the job.
35 posted on 07/09/2003 11:59:40 PM PDT by Brian Allen ( Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Enemy Of The State
From what I hear from some of them, that's what they are promised, but not neccessarily what they take home. There is so much corruption over there the main game in town seems to be "get them to work, then forget to pay them at the end of the month. String them along as long as possible without paying up. When they quit, hire someone else." (No weekly paycheck by the way. This wonderful system means that the population is in constant motion looking for an employer with a shred of integrity and a landlord that won't rob them blind.)
36 posted on 07/10/2003 12:17:17 AM PDT by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
However, US State Department spokesman Phil Reeker denied on June 12 that the government had reports confirming the allegations set forth by the Washington Times. Senate Republican leader Trent Lott said that if the allegations were confirmed, it would not be a good sign for China.

What? How old is this?

37 posted on 07/10/2003 12:19:01 AM PDT by stuck_in_new_orleans
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To: Enemy Of The State
<< .... people [Lucky enough to have jobs] earn about 300 to 400 RMB per month in the smaller provincial cities. >>

And what about the rural poor -- including those in the more than two and a half million square miles of other People's Sovereign states, territories, Nations and lands criminally occupied by Peking's psychopaths?
38 posted on 07/10/2003 5:22:18 AM PDT by Brian Allen ( Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: piasa
Well, of all the dirty rotten stuff that goes on there, that is not something that is very common. Actually one of the biggest scams that people fall for in China are pyramids and false investments.

It is very uncommon for an employer not to pay the employees as promised but one of the things that I have found to be the strangest is that when a person graduates from college, (and this is becoming less and less common) the government finds them a job and if they refuse the job, they are required to reimpburse the the government for the cost of their college tuition. Then later if they find a job and decided that they do not like it, they must pay a penalty fee to their employer in order to leave. Usually a sum of 5,000 yuan or more. Then they must pay another fee to the company which has agreed to hire them. This is more common in the more remote provinces though.

Strange system, very strange.
39 posted on 07/10/2003 5:25:27 AM PDT by Enemy Of The State (If we don't take action now, We settle for nothing later!)
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To: Brian Allen
"And what about the rural poor -- including those in the more than two and a half million square miles of other People's Sovereign states, territories"

Depending on their job, that is the wages for the rual poor. Most people in the larger cities are starting to make wages comparable to those in the US believe it or not. There is lots of money to be made in China and the people usually have no shortage of ideas about how to do it.

That is not to say that there are not poor "peasants" who make less than 300-400 yuan per month, but it is becoming less common.
40 posted on 07/10/2003 5:30:13 AM PDT by Enemy Of The State (If we don't take action now, We settle for nothing later!)
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To: Brian Allen
If you are on the job then tell me about the road mobile missile disparity between the US and its anti Western enemies. What's your assessment of that? You seem to not want to discuss this. Why?
41 posted on 07/10/2003 9:03:48 AM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Un-PC even to "Conservatives!" - Right makes right)
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To: Enemy Of The State
My own acquaintances in the PRC (both natives and expats) are certainly not hurting. And Mr. Allen, in spite of all his claims, can put this additional FACT in his pipe and smoke it.
42 posted on 07/10/2003 9:07:11 AM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Un-PC even to "Conservatives!" - Right makes right)
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To: belmont_mark
Where are our road mobile strategic missiles?

Sitting in ballistic missile submarines where they are not bound by roads, have 10 times the area of the US to hide in, and can shoot with a 4-6 minutes flight time.

SLBM's are truly the way to go.

43 posted on 07/10/2003 9:21:55 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (We are crushing our enemies, seeing him driven before us and hearing the lamentations of the liberal)
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To: belmont_mark
The US Dept of defense Official Report on the PLA says that the PLA is so SECRETIVE that the US DOD still knows very little of what actually goes on inside (the PLA)

and yet, isn't it wee bit far-fetched that an outsider (non-citizen of China)can say that he trains half of the PLA pilots.? now, why would the PLA allow non-Chinese citizens to train their pilots ? especially when they (PLA) is so ultra secretive ?

In China, one use the term Fu-jian instead of Hokkien, and GuangDong instead of Cantonese. Hokkien and Cantonese are used in Singapore and Malaysia.
44 posted on 07/10/2003 9:32:58 AM PDT by The Pheonix
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To: Brian Allen; ntrulock
And we are onto it, and on the job.

'Zat so? So where and when have the oppressed whistle-blowers on Chinese espionage been restored to their jobs?

45 posted on 07/10/2003 12:41:24 PM PDT by Paul Ross (From the State Looking Forward to Global Warming! Let's Drown France!)
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To: Centurion2000
Sure we need SLBMs. But we also need road mobile. We'll be sorry we ditched the MX as a road mobile ICBM and only siloed a few of them, and even sorrier for having no credible IRBMs. Mark my words.
46 posted on 07/10/2003 4:35:24 PM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Un-PC even to "Conservatives!" - Right makes right)
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To: belmont_mark
Sure we need SLBMs. But we also need road mobile. We'll be sorry we ditched the MX as a road mobile ICBM and only siloed a few of them, and even sorrier for having no credible IRBMs. Mark my words.

Why the problem with no road mobile ? Where is the advantage ?

IRBM's ? Who in the Western Hemisphere is going to launch a ballistic missile at us that we couldn't hit with a nuclear cruise missile ?

47 posted on 07/10/2003 4:56:40 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (We are crushing our enemies, seeing him driven before us and hearing the lamentations of the liberal)
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To: The Pheonix; belmont_mark
<< In China, one use the term Fu-jian instead of Hokkien, and GuangDong instead of Cantonese .... >>

Not "in china."

Only in peking where your psychopathological mass-murdering mandarin wannabe masters sit and foment the evil with which you delude your pathetic selves you will "restore the chinese race" to its "past grandure."

The "grandure" that in five thousand years has not seen a single marketable creation, innovation, production or industry? A major work of art -- or a government acceptable to its slaves?

To the "grandure" that is that not long ago saw "china" totally and abjectly defeated in war by a handful of Englishmen in a few wooden ships at the end of a ten thousand miles and six months long supply chain. And that sat by as the serial-child-rapist and predatory psychopath pedophile, Mao Tze Tung slaughtered ninety million unarmed innocents while serially-raping thousands of their girl and boy children.

And in realisty exists in your fevered and deluded, hesperophobic and much-vaunted-girly-man-pla pea brains.

Oh -- and this might help you in the future: You might better serve your masters -- and evil's -- interests if you read what I write -- rather than inventing it. You guys have a bad enough time handling my Truth -- or any Truth, come to that -- without further handicapping yourselves by putting in my mouth even more delusional fantasy than you have absorbed all of your lives in brainwashing. [AKA "school"]

And when you make up stuff, your already-transparent and very very poor Xerox copy of Western Intelligence [Similar to your psychopathologically-interpreted very very poor Xerox copy of Western free enterprise and of Judeo-Christian/Western Civilization -- "Human Civilization," that is)] gives you away every time!

You can put suits on the Jiang Gang and put the gangster Butcher of Occupied Tibet in charge of all y'all and even call him "president" -- but at the end of the day every last one of them will still be a lying, looting, thieving, mass-murdering gangster bastard. Ruthlessly ruling a billion squalid slaves.
48 posted on 07/11/2003 1:50:01 AM PDT by Brian Allen ( Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Brian Allen
Wait a minute there

The chinese invented paper, silk, the compass ,civil service, the ship's rudder etc etc

Anyway, time to cut the crap

We think we know who you are; and just for fun, let's play the game of esponage, OK? here's our guess

If we are not wrong, you could be a certain Mr. "CHANDRA", from an American-based semiconductors (listed on the NASDAQ), and you may be based somewhere in Arizona. You might have migrated from Malaysia a few years ago. You could be a Malaysian Indian.....

Plse excuse us if we are wrong. Don't take it too seriously


Who are we. ?

Would you believe, that we are all EX-CIA and EX-FBI

And our hobby is playing the game of P.I. MAGNUM
49 posted on 07/11/2003 2:35:35 AM PDT by The Pheonix
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To: Jeff Head
Communist China's goals are to tie the hands of America through proxy warfare. If they can get millions of Mexicans to pour through the border that would be just peachy.

Cuba is THE focal point of all Communist foment in Central and South America.

Cuba is the cancer eating away at our Freedom and Liberty through what it is doing in Mexico, Venezula, etc. As long as Cuba is not free, America is in danger.
50 posted on 07/11/2003 7:52:11 AM PDT by HighRoadToChina (Never Again!)
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