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The Trouble with Treason (David Horowitz regarding Ann Coulter)
Frontpagemagazine.com ^ | 7/8/03 | David Horowitz

Posted on 07/08/2003 2:45:10 AM PDT by DPB101

I have always admired Ann Coulter’s satiric skewering of liberal pieties and her bravery under fire. Not many conservatives can fight back with as much verve and venom as she can, and if politics is war conducted by other means, Ann is someone I definitely want on my side.

I began running Coulter columns on Frontpagemag.com shortly after she came up with her most infamous line, which urged America to put jihadists to the sword and convert them to Christianity. Liberals were horrified; I was not. I thought to myself,this is a perfect send-up of what our Islamo-fascist enemies believe – that as infidels we should be put to the sword and converted to Islam. I regarded Coulter’s phillipic as a Swiftian commentary on liberal illusions of multi-cultural outreach to people who want to rip out our hearts.

Another reason I have enjoyed Ann’s attacks on liberals is because they have been so richly deserved. No one wields the verbal knife more ruthlessly than so-called liberal pundits like Joe Conason, to cite but one example. I have been the subject of many below-the-belt Conason attacks. If people Joe Conason admired were the objects of acid Coulterisms, so much the better. If Conason was outraged, I was confident that justice had been done.

But now to my dismay, I find myself unable to find such satisfaction in Conason’s reaction to Ann’s new book Treason, or in the responses of other liberals like The Washington Post’s Richard Cohen (who has also attacked me in the past). In a review in the Post, Cohen dismisses Ann’s book as “Crackpot Conservatism,” reflecting the fact that their responses are not so much yelps of outrage as cackles over what they view as an argument so over the top that only true believers will take it seriously. It is distressing when someone you admire gives credibility to liberal attacks. But that, unfortunately, is what this book has done.

Here is the opening of Treason: “Liberals have a preternatural gift for striking a position on the side of treason. You could be talking about Scrabble and they would instantly leap to the anti-American position. Everyone says liberals love America, too. No they don’t. Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence.”

As polemical satire this passage may work. But what if is not satire? Is it the case that liberals like Harry Truman, Lyndon Johnson and John F. Kennedy sided with the enemy? Of course not. They were anti-Communists, hated by the left as “cold war liberals.” And they were not alone. There were many liberals – Scoop Jackson and Jeanne Kirkpatrick among them – who were just as worthy defenders of America and prosecutors of the anti-Communist cause.

Until 1963, Ronald Reagan was a pro-Kennedy, anti-Communist, cold war liberal. In Coulter’s book, Democrats (whom she inexplicably conflates with liberals) come under blistering attack for their perfidious role in the so-called “McCarthy Era.” A lot of what she says about Democrats is true, but nearly half the members of the House Committee on Un-American Activities and the Senate Internal Subcommittee (McCarthy’s vehicle) were Democrats.

Bobby Kennedy was a McCarthy staff lawyer. Not all Democrats were liberals and not all liberals sided with the enemy. In 1968, Tom Hayden – a radical supporter of the Communist cause in Vietnam -- organized a riot at the Democratic Party convention in order to destroy the presidential candidacy of Humbert Humphrey. The reason? Humphrey was an anti-Communist, pro-Vietnam War liberal.

By failing to draw a clear line between satirical exaggeration and historical analysis, by refusing to credit the laudable role played by patriotic, anti-Communist liberals like Truman, Kennedy and Humphrey, Coulter has compromised her case and undermined her attempt to correct a record that desperately needs correction. Liberals have – just as she charges – distorted postwar history to protect the guilty. Franklin Roosevelt did laugh off the information that Alger Hiss -- one of his top aides -- was a Soviet spy and did -- despite the warning -- elevate Hiss to be his one of his chief advisers both at Yalta and at the founding conference of the UN.

Democrats did allow the Communists to penetrate their party and their administrations in the 1930s and 1940s. The Truman Administration did dismiss Republican charges of Communist influence as partisan politics and was lackadaisical before 1947 in taking the internal Communist threat seriously. But in 1947 all that changed. Truman instituted a comprehensive loyalty program to ferret out Communist influence in government. It was the Truman Administration that prosecuted Alger Hiss and the Rosenbergs.

In fact the decisive battles of this era took place inside liberalism. It was Walter Reuther – a socialist – who purged the Communist from the CIO and it was Truman’s anti-Communist policies that provoked the Communists into leaving the Democratic Party and forming the Progressive Party to oppose his re-election in 1948.

By ignoring these complexities – or dismissing them -- Coulter makes her case seem indefensible, even when it is not. It is true as Coulter maintains, that the accusation of “McCarthyism” has been and still is used as a cover for treachery by the political Left. To pick a contemporary example she does not mention, leftwing groups like the ACLU, the American Association of University Professors and the National Lawyers Guild are currently defending the terrorist Sami al-Arian as a victim of “McCarthyism.” Al-Arian is one of three founders of the terrorist organization Palestine Islamic Jihad and responsible for the murders of 99 innocent people. No one familiar with the facts can doubt this. But the Left has chosen to defend al-Arian and put John Ashcroft and the Justice Department on trial instead. The anti-McCarthy left did provide aid and comfort to the Soviet enemy and its agents inside the United States and is still doing so.

It is a shame that Coulter mars her case with claims that cannot be sustained. In making McCarthy the center of her history, ironically, she has fallen into the very liberal trap she warns about. It is the Left that wants McCarthy to be the center of (and in effect to define) the postwar era so that it can use his recklessness to discredit the anti-Communist cause. In fact, as Coulter herself points out, McCarthy began his anti-Communist crusade after the decisive battles of 1947 and 1948, surfacing only in 1950, after the onset of the Korean War. By then, even Henry Wallace, the Progressive Party’s presidential candidate, knew he had been duped. This is why McCarthy did not unearth any Communists in government or out (all they had all been previously identified by the FBI), and why FBI officials engaged in counter-intelligence work despised McCarthy for damaging their efforts. Hopefully, Treason will not have a similar effect.

On the other hand, there are many apercus in this book that are memorable. It was only in reading Coulter’s text that I realized what a fraud Joseph Welch -- the hero of all anti-McCarthy histories – was, and how his moment of glory in “exposing” McCarthy was a hypocritical sham. Coulter reminds us that one of McCarthy’s great “sins” was to have identified Owen Lattimore as Stalin’s chief agent in America. In fact, Lattimore was a supporter of Stalin’s and Mao’s political agendas and a willing tool of their policies, and that having been identified as such, he was hired by Harvard.

It is indignantly reported that McCarthy exaggerated. His claim that Owen Lattimore was a Soviet agent – as opposed to behaved like a Soviet agent – is hyperbole deserving of a hundred-year condemnation. [But] liberals’ threshold for outrage dropped when it came to McCarthy. In fact, McCarthy’s rhetoric was mild by the standards of his time. In President Truman’s 1948 campaign, he railed, ‘If anybody in this country is friendly to the Communists it is the Republicans.’ [Coulter]

Yet even the fact that Lattimore behaved like a Soviet agent is somewhat different from McCarthy’s claim that he was the chief Soviet agent. How did McCarthy’s mis-identifying Lattimore this way serve the anti-Communist cause? In fact, it served to discredit the anti-Communist cause. But Coulter wants us to think of McCarthy as the anti-Communist hero of the era: “In his brief fiery ride across the landscape, Joe McCarthy bought America another thirty years.” Quite the opposite has been argued by many anti-Communists, whom Coulter brusquely dismisses:

Lost amid all the mandatory condemnations of Joe McCarthy’s name – he gave anti-Communism a bad name, did a disservice to the cause, was an unnecessary distraction – the little detail about his being right always seems to get lost. McCarthy’s fundamental thesis was absolutely correct: The Democratic Party had fallen to the allures of totalitaridanism.”

But, if this was true, why did the totalitarians abandon the Democratic Party en masse in 1948? The answer is that McCarthy’s thesis was incorrect, and Coulter is just wrong about his political impact. He exploited the anti-Communist sentiment that was already the popular wisdom of the time, and by giving flesh to the fears of open-ended witch-hunts allowed the Communist Left to regroup and ultimately – in 1972 to be precise – return to the Democratic Party fold.

Many of the inaccurate generalizations of Treason are indeed the hyperbole of Coulterian satire, but unfortunately the most crucial ones are not. I realized this when I saw Ann defending her claims on Chris Matthews’ Hardball:

Chris Matthews: What do you mean by the cover of this book?

Ann Coulter: What I mean is that the Democratic Party, as an entity, has become functionally treasonable, including what you’re talking about, turning over documents to the enemy….

Chris Matthews: Well, should they be prosecuted?…

Ann Coulter: I wish it were that easy a problem, but that trivializes the point of my book, which is not that there are just a few dozen traitors out there. It is that the entire party cannot root for America.

Chris Matthews: Well, let’s talk about the leaders of the Democratic Party over the years. Was Jack Kennedy a traitor? Was he guilty of treason?

Ann Coulter: He was not as strong a president as a Republican would have been. But I’m referring, as I say again, I’m referring to a party that is functionally treasonable….

Chris Matthews: Was Jack Kennedy a traitor?

Ann Coulter: No, he was not a traitor.

Chris Matthews: Was he guilty of treason?

Ann Coulter: His heart was in the right place but he was surrounded by bad policymakers and he harm[ed] the country and its national security.

This exchange made me extremely uncomfortable. When somebody as smart and as gutsy as Ann Coulter equivocates over so direct a question – Was Jack Kennedy a traitor? -- you know (and they know) – that something is very wrong with the position they are defending. Equally disturbing was Coulter’s use of the phrase, “functionally treasonable” – as in “[the Democratic Party] has become functionally treasonable.” This is a problematic phrase on several counts. In the first place, “treasonable” is not a word but seems to suggest “capable of treason,” which is different from being actually treasonous. The distinction is important.

But “functionally treasonable” is also disturbingly reminiscent of the old Stalinist term “objectively fascist.” This was how people who swore their loyalty to the cause were condemned (often to death) if they deviated from the party line. Stalinists defined all dissent as “objectively” treacherous. This is not a path that conservatives should follow. When intent and individuality are separated from actions in a political context, we are entering a totalitarian realm where Ann Coulter does not really want to be.

Why is she equivocating about Jack Kennedy anway? Kennedy was not only not a traitor, he was not even a weak anti-Communist, as she claims.

He was arguably stronger than Eisenhower or Nixon in prosecuting the Cold War. His politics were that of Ronald Reagan. He was a militant anti-Communist and a military hawk, authorizing the largest defense buildup in peacetime history.

What can she mean when she says that Kennedy was “surrounded by bad policymakers” – i.e., policymakers who were presumably liberals and therefore harmed the country and its national security? Kennedy was surrounded by Republican policymakers. His secretaries of State, Defense and Treasury – the three key foreign policy posts – were all Republicans. He launched his administration by declaring that America would pay any price to defend the cause of freedom. He tried to overthrow Castro by force. It’s true that he bungled the invasion but Dwight Eisenhower failed the Hungarians in 1956, while Nixon and Kissinger betrayed the Vietnamese in the infamous truce of 1973.

In 1961, Kennedy stood the Russians down in Berlin – risking nuclear war to do so – and a year later he again risked nuclear war to force the removal of Soviet missiles in Cuba. He put 16,000 troops into Vietnam rather than write that country off to the Communists. Why is Ann equivocating on the question of his loyalty and commitment to the anti-Communist cause?

It is important for conservatives to make distinctions between those on the Left who were (and are) traitors or self-conceived enemies of the United States, and those who were (and are) the fellow-travelers of enemies of the United States, and those who are neither traitors, nor enemies, nor friends and protectors of enemies, but are American patriots who disagree with conservatives over tactical and policy issues. It is important, first because it is just, but also because it is a condition of democracy. Citizens will disagree over many issues and matters. In order for the democratic process to survive, all parties must refrain from attempts to de-legitimize those who disagree with them, provided they have legitimate concerns and dissents. If every Democrat is a traitor, if “the entire party cannot root for America,” we are left with a one party system.

The final reason for making these distinctions is that this charge – that no Democrat, apparently including Jack Kennedy, can root for America -- is obviously absurd, and if conservatives do not recognize that it is absurd, nobody is going to listen to us. That is why Conason and Cohen are cackling rather than yelping. That is why Conason doesn’t even think he has to answer her claims, only list them:

“Whether they are defending the Soviet Union or bleating for Saddam Hussein, liberals are always against America,” according to [Coulter’s] demonology. “They are either traitors or idiots, and on the matter of America’s self-preservation, the difference is irrelevant. Fifty years of treason hasn’t slowed them down.” And: “Liberals relentlessly attack their country, but we can’t call them traitors, which they manifestly are, because that would be ‘McCarthyism,’ which never existed.” (Never existed? Her idol gave his 1952 book that very word as its title.)

Fortunately, Conason’s bad faith is also showing in this passage, which underscores why a defense of the anti-Communism of the “McCarthy Era” (but not McCarthy) is in order. Of course McCarthy titled his own book “McCarthyism.” Liberals had made the term an issue. Is Conason really suggesting that McCarthy’s book is a defense of the liberal caricature of himself? Does Conason really think that the tactics of guilt by association and prosecution by committee – the hallmarks of “McCarthyism” – are exclusively the vehicles of anti-Communists and not weapons of choice deployed by liberals themselves?

If liberals abhor “McCarthyism,” why are they such worshippers of Hillary Clinton who is the unrepentant author of the most famous McCarthyite smear since the Senator’s censure fifty years ago? In fact, liberals like Joe Conason were eager abettors of her lie that a “vast right-wing conspiracy” invented her husband’s affair with Monica Lewinsky in order to destroy his liberal good works. Liberals like Conason indulge in related “McCarthyite” tactics like “guilt-by-association,” gleefully linking political opponents (myself for example) to those they have demonized like Richard Mellon Scaife -- the alleged kingpin of the alleged conspiracy – with the express purpose of discrediting those they have so linked.

Where was the liberal opposition to prosecutions by congressional committee when Col. Oliver North and others were in the dock? Who on the Left objected when Senator Inouye, chair of the Iran-Contra investigating committee, in true McCarthy fashion condemned North as a “traitor” before a national television audience and without the protections of a court proceeding? The only difference between the Iran-Contra victims of Senators Kennedy and Inouye and the Communists who were pilloried by Joe McCarthy was that the Iran-Contra witnesses were patriots and the Communists called before McCarthy’s committee were not.

The fact is that if so many liberals and Democrats had not covered so assiduously for Communists and Soviet spies like Alger Hiss and Harry Dexter White, there would have been no “McCarthy Era” -- no wave of loyalty oaths and no congressional investigations. Derelictions like Roosevelt’s, the sense of insecurity created when the public realized that there was an enemy within who had thoroughly penetrated the Democratic Party and which was indeed controlled by the Kremlin, and the refusal of Democratic leaders to take the threat as seriously as they should have -- created the demand for investigations and made the exploits of demagogues like McCarthy inevitable.

The problem with Coulter’s book is that she is not willing to concede that McCarthy was, in fact, demagogic in any sense at all, or that that his recklessness injured the anti-Communist cause. Ron Radosh, Harvey Klehr and John Haynes have distinguished themselves as historians by documenting the Communist menace that many liberals discounted. But they have also documented the irresponsible antics of McCarthy, which undermined the anti-Communist cause. Coulter dismisses such conservative criticisms of McCarthy as caving in to the liberals. She is wrong.

But the fact that she is wrong should not obscure the way in which she is right in the larger argument about whether McCarthy and McCarthyism have been used by the Left to cover its own indefensible tracks. Here is a way to assess the merits of that argument: As a quick Google search will show, there are two periods in American history that have become known as the era of “The Red Scare” –the so-called McCarthy period and the period of the Palmer Raids, when anarchist radicals were rounded up in the 1920s as “subversives” and “terrorists.” This first “Red Scare” provides a good yardstick for judging the one under review because it is free of the presence of the controversial Senator and his antagonists, yet involves parallel claims by liberals that an anti-radical “hysteria” led to an assault on civil liberties and the persecution of individuals “for their political beliefs.”

In fact, the Palmer Raids were triggered by a massive domestic campaign of terror conducted by anarchist organizations. It involved a hundred mail bombs and an attempt to blow up the Attorney General of the United States (Mitchell Palmer) and J.P. Morgan among others. One anarchist bombing killed 40 people – the biggest terrorist atrocity in American history until then. Another plot -- to poison 200 members of the Archdiocese of Chicago who were attending a dinner party -- failed when the guests only became sick.

Given these facts it would more reasonable to designate this episode as the Era of the Red Threat than a red “scare.” It is not so designated because the institutions that make the cultural record – the academic history profession and the high brow media are dominated by the political left which is protecting its own. That is also why the New York Times – one of Coulter’s justly favorite targets – has spent so much newsprint promoting contemporary terrorists like Kathy Boudin, Billy Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn, and why it has fudged the guilt of Alger Hiss and played down the significance of the Venona decrypts.

The McCarthy Era has been written into college and high school curriculums and even government history standards as a time of “witch-hunts” instead of a time of fifth column treason for the same reason. Coulter is right to emphasize this point. The opening of the Soviet archives and the release of the Venona decrypts have established beyond any reasonable doubt that McCarthy’s so-called victims – with few exceptions (James Wechsler would be one) -- were people who either served the intelligence agencies of the biggest mass murderer in history or supported the despotic empire he built, or were fellow-travelers of the same. The remedy for preventing such injustices as occurred through the hearings of McCarthy’s subcommittee and the House Committee on Un-American Activities would be to close congressional hearings to the public. But no one to my knowledge – liberal or otherwise -- has ever proposed this.

Today the same “liberals” (I have in mind those liberals who are really leftists in sheep’s clothing) are busy whipping up hysteria about a government threat to civil liberties in regard to incarcerated terrorist suspects. Here is Coulter’s take: “[After 9/11 liberals] wailed about ‘McCarthyism’ and claimed to be ‘very very concerned’ -- not about terrorist attacks on America but about ‘civil liberties.’ Liberals’ idea for fighting domestic terrorism was to hold folk-song rallies with Muslims. When they aren’t complaining about alleged threats to civil liberties, they are complaining about us. Two days after the [9/11] attack, novelist Norman Mailer, whose last successful novel was written fifty-four years ago, said the crumpled World Trade Center was ‘more beautiful than the building was,’ and America was ‘the most hated nation on earth.’ As Mailer saw it, the terrorist attack was retaliation for the Happy Meal: ‘We come in and we insist on establishing enclaves of our food there, like McDonald’s.’”

Not all critics of Ashcroft should be put in this category however. There are many genuine patriots who are concerned about the balance between liberty and security. William Safire is one from the Republican side; Nat Hentoff is another from the Left. Making such discriminations is important, and to the extent that she hasn’t made them Ann Coulter opens herself to the criticisms that have been leveled against her. But in the long run, this will turn out to be a lesser fault than emphasizing the wrong problem or promoting America’s enemies as America’s victims – which is what her liberal antagonists have done.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: anncoulter; antiamericanism; blameamericafirst; communism; communists; coulter; culturewar; davidhorowitz; democrats; fifthcolumn; fifthcolumnists; joemccarthy; joestalin; josephmccarthy; liberals; mccarthy; mccarthyism; mccarthywasright; mediabias; prostalin; reddupes; redmenace; simpleminds; socialism; socialists; stalinsusefulidiots; theredmenace; traitors; treason; unamerican; unclejoe; usefulidiots
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Why is she equivocating about Jack Kennedy anway? Kennedy was not only not a traitor, he was not even a weak anti-Communist, as she claims.

Treason, page 11: "John F. Kennedy's pronouncements on Communism could have been spoken by Joe McCarthy. His brother Robert worked for McCarthy."

Treason, page 101: "John F. Kennedy fiercely defended McCarthy. . .in response to a speaker's lighthearted remarks that, unlike the law school, Harvard College could be proud of never having produced either an Alger Hiss or a Joe McCarthy, Kennedy erupted, "How dare you couple the name of a great American patriot with that of a traitor?"

1 posted on 07/08/2003 2:45:10 AM PDT by DPB101
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2 posted on 07/08/2003 2:46:50 AM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: DPB101; nopardons; dix; HISSKGB; Grampa Dave; NormsRevenge
Join the fun...Horowitz has distorted or ignored one fact after the next. For instance:

A lot of what she says about Democrats is true, but nearly half the members of the House Committee on Un-American Activities and the Senate Internal Subcommittee (McCarthy’s vehicle) were Democrats.

What good was that if they weren't there? From From July 10, 1953 to January 25, 1954 every Democrat on the Senate Internal Subcommittee boycotted every session of the Subcommittee. In the House Committee, little was done until Republicans became the majority party in 1947. HCUA itself was the creation of a Soviet agent--Samuel Dickstein (D-NY).

3 posted on 07/08/2003 2:58:27 AM PDT by DPB101
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To: DPB101
It seems as if as many people make the mistake of equating liberals and Democrats, as those who make the mistake of equating conservatives and Republicans.

Coulter's book is not a hundred percent defensible, which does not mean it's wrong, just not defensible. In many cases, she more than likely points the finger at those in the spotlight, the ones who ostensibly make the decisions. Weasels and moles shun the light.

If Truman was not guilty of treason he was guilty of terminal stupidity or ignorance and possibly just plain political blindness. (Truman Article - NewsMax, July 2nd) Links, I do not do yet.
4 posted on 07/08/2003 3:12:39 AM PDT by David Isaac
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To: DPB101
Horowitz makes the mistake of many: Democrats aren't necessarily liberals.
5 posted on 07/08/2003 3:12:58 AM PDT by gortklattu
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To: DPB101
But now to my dismay, I find myself unable to find such satisfaction in Conason’s reaction to Ann’s new book Treason, or in the responses of other liberals like The Washington Post’s Richard Cohen (who has also attacked me in the past). In a review in the Post, Cohen dismisses Ann’s book as “Crackpot Conservatism,” reflecting the fact that their responses are not so much yelps of outrage as cackles over what they view as an argument so over the top that only true believers will take it seriously. It is distressing when someone you admire gives credibility to liberal attacks. But that, unfortunately, is what this book has done.
.....
Not all critics of Ashcroft should be put in this category however. There are many genuine patriots who are concerned about the balance between liberty and security. William Safire is one from the Republican side; Nat Hentoff is another from the Left. Making such discriminations is important, and to the extent that she hasn’t made them Ann Coulter opens herself to the criticisms that have been leveled against her. But in the long run, this will turn out to be a lesser fault than emphasizing the wrong problem or promoting America’s enemies as America’s victims – which is what her liberal antagonists have done.

David, David, you just can't stay mad at her, can you? ;-) Have you heard the one about the distinction without a difference?

6 posted on 07/08/2003 3:14:46 AM PDT by SubMareener
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To: DPB101
One of John F. Kennedy's many sexual affairs was with a woman named Ellen Rometsch, who was later revealed to be an agent of the East German government. That itself may very well have been the most treasonous action ever taken by a U.S. president.

7 posted on 07/08/2003 3:16:45 AM PDT by Alberta's Child
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To: SubMareener
I wonder if he even read the book.

by refusing to credit the laudable role played by patriotic, anti-Communist liberals like Truman, Kennedy and Humphrey, Coulter has compromised her case . . .

Treason, page 11:

There were, admittedly, a few rare and striking exceptions to the left's overall obtuseness to Communist totalitarianism. The Democratic Party was certainly more patriotic then than it has become. Throughtout the sixties, the Democrats could still produce the occasional Scoop Jackson Democrat . (JFK's statments on communism ) could have been spoken by Joe McCarthy . . .for all his flaws, President Harry Truman was a completely different breed than today's Democrats: He unquestionably loved his country
Treason, page 68:
Walter Reuther and Hubert Humphrey. . .were far rougher with Communists than McCarthy ever was. . .in 1954 Senator Humphrey introduced a bill that would have outlawed the Communist Party. Outlawed it. That was the year the Senate voted to censure McCarthy. . .

8 posted on 07/08/2003 3:17:11 AM PDT by DPB101
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To: DPB101
When the actual facts of the book are disputed and shown to be false I will be swayed by these writings, however, her last book was demonized by the Left/Press and stood the test of documented history on Ann's side. To make the book seem less legimite, the author grabs a sound bite from and interview!
9 posted on 07/08/2003 3:24:34 AM PDT by Jumper
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To: DPB101
That's why Ann should hone her debating skills.She doesn't explain or justify her comments well verbally and someone like Matthews discombobulates her.I,too don't like the word treason used as a blanket condemnation of the Democratic party,though I believe the progressives are dangerous,socialists, and anti the America I want.There are those in office who play footsie with the World Workers groups in anti war protests which turns my stomach.The moving force behind anti war groups are communists.Not all anti war folks are communists,however.
10 posted on 07/08/2003 3:41:45 AM PDT by MEG33
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To: Jumper
You argue that Horowitz's goal is "to make the book seem less legitimate."

But as pointed out at the top of his column, Horowitz has been a big fan of Coulter, even running her column on his web page. He is a bold and courageous conservative.

So he certainly has no axe to grind, no reason to distort the facts in order to delegitamize Coulter.

I'd say this column was definitely written "more in sorrow than in anger."
11 posted on 07/08/2003 3:44:30 AM PDT by governsleastgovernsbest
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To: DPB101
It is strange that Horowitz has not either read or mentioned the Amerasia affair.

Owen Lattimore was up to his neck in espionage with the spies in that case. Communist Lattimore took a big hit during the MacCarran hearings over his complicity in engineering support for the communists in China.

It is misleading to continue to make a big distinction between CP party members and others who 'act like' communists because major spy Whitaker Chambers was ordered by his handler to drop his communist party membership when he began his spying. Communist traitors did not have to have CP membership cards and many did not.

I also should mention that Lattimore's supporters smeared and harassed those revealed his duplicity.
12 posted on 07/08/2003 3:47:28 AM PDT by HISSKGB
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To: governsleastgovernsbest
Why did Horowitz flat out distort or ignore what Ann said in the book? Why is he claiming she said things she did not?
13 posted on 07/08/2003 3:47:36 AM PDT by DPB101
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To: DPB101
The quotes make one wonder: did David Horowitz read all of Treason or did his critique stem from what he heard from media reviews and her liberal critics? Yes, there were Democrats and anti-Communist liberals who were loyal to America. Ann should have made a mention of this fact before going on to deal with those liberals who were either supporters or fellow travelers for the Communist cause. I don't think Ann's right about McCarthy's tactics, which were morally flawed and politically indefensible but she is right about the fact the American people were in agreement with the Wisconsin Senator about the larger menace that America faced at the time. I think Irving Kristol himself stated as much in a celebrated essay about the distinction Americans made between the enemy McCarthy said was a danger to the American way of life and the tactics he used to expose those in its service. Treason does tend at points to overgeneralize and fall into the trap of making too much of McCarthy. But its also right that with a handful of exceptions most of his famous victims were really malefactors working on behalf of the most aggressive and brutal tyranny known to human history. It may be for that alone that we owe Ann a debt of lasting gratitude.
14 posted on 07/08/2003 3:48:50 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: MEG33
... and someone like Matthews discombobulates her.I,too don't like the word treason used as a blanket condemnation of the Democratic party,...

Mathews, as a lifelong democrat, was offended by the broad brush use of the word treason and told Ann exactly that to her face. He took it personally and thus went after Ann especially agressively.

I like Ann, but completely understand Mathews irritation.
15 posted on 07/08/2003 3:53:40 AM PDT by mr.pink
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To: DPB101
I think it's the interviews that are the problem.She does stumble there and therefore I want her to get a coach!Write Horowitz.I think some columnists skim the book,read others reviews and comments and distort terribly.Even Dorothy Rabaniwitz comes off badly .I loathe Joe Conason.
16 posted on 07/08/2003 3:56:09 AM PDT by MEG33
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To: DPB101
>>I wonder if he even read the book.

I keep wondering that about all the columns criticizing Ann and Treason. All of them seem to have major points that are refuted by a few direct quotes from the text.
17 posted on 07/08/2003 3:56:41 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (this space intentionally blank)
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To: Jumper
Ann Coulter: He was not as strong a president as a Republican would have been. But I’m referring, as I say again, I’m referring to a party that is functionally treasonable….

What is with Horowitz, anyway? Ann draws fire because she is refreshingly blunt and direct. She doesn't play around with trying to be nice to those who are the enemies of freedom here at home. Her message, in my view, is to describe what the Democratic party has currently evolved to. Is it not wonderful that this very georgous, razor sharp, fearless, highly intelligent, richly successful mouthpiece is a conservative woman? She is only doing what David, himself, has so successfully done which is to shine a bright light on all that liberal sleaze which has been so injurious to our culture. Ann, YOU GO, GIRL!! Maybe you will be President someday.
18 posted on 07/08/2003 3:57:12 AM PDT by jazzlite (esat)
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To: MEG33
>>The moving force behind anti war groups are communists.Not all anti war folks are communists,however.

No, but when those non-communist anti-war folks attend anti-war protests organized by communists, they become useful idiots.

19 posted on 07/08/2003 3:58:44 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (this space intentionally blank)
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To: goldstategop
I've read the executive transcripts and for the life of me I can see nothing at all morally wrong with McCarthy's tactics. He bent over backwards to accommodate witnesses. No one was badgered. He and those who testified openly were the ones under attack. More than a few witnesses feared their lives would be wrecked by communists and their supporters if their testimony was made public. McCarthy sealed it for 50 years to protect them.

I don't see what is wrong with Congress calling Americans citizens before it and asking them if they belong to an organization funded by a foreign power which is trying to overthrow the government.

When the Democrats ruled, they set up the McCormack/Dickstein committee which went after those who opposed the New Deal. People were smeared as Nazi sympathizers and a few were alleged to be planning a putsch against FDR. That was done on the orders of Stalin by a man on the Soviet payroll--Dickstein of New York.

We hear over and over about McCarthy saying he had a list. Why don't we hear about Dickstein claiming, in 1941, that he had a list of 110 fascist organizations which had the keys to the back door of Congress?

20 posted on 07/08/2003 4:02:10 AM PDT by DPB101
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To: MEG33
That's why Ann should hone her debating skills.She doesn't explain or justify her comments well verbally and someone like Matthews discombobulates her.

I saw the interview with Matthews. Coulter was not discombobulated; Matthews was. :-)

21 posted on 07/08/2003 4:10:00 AM PDT by alnick (Kakkate Koi!)
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To: David Isaac
How was Truman guilty of "terminal stupidity"? Horowitz detailed Truman's fierce opposition to communism. Is Horowitz wrong?
22 posted on 07/08/2003 4:10:43 AM PDT by driftless ( For life-long happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
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To: Alberta's Child
With regard to your claim of Kennedy's affair with an "East GErman" agent.

Not East German. There was no East German government then. The affair was when JFK was quite young, and the woman was a NAZI agent.
23 posted on 07/08/2003 4:12:56 AM PDT by BohDaThone
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To: alnick
Someone on the forum here said he got the best of her..I suppose it depends!
24 posted on 07/08/2003 4:21:31 AM PDT by MEG33
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To: jazzlite
Oh, to see a live debate between Horowitz and Coulter.
I admire and respect both, and know they will get over it - like when Ann called Jonah Goldberg and Rich Lowry "Girly-men" because they were horrified at the same statement that drew Horowitz to her.
Hey, good conservatives aren't afraid to spar a little, because there is no "Party line" and we don't do "group-think".
25 posted on 07/08/2003 4:23:49 AM PDT by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is a war room".)
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To: DPB101
The essence of the issue: Were there Communist spies in positions at the highest levels of our government or not? If so, what did those in charge know, when did they know it, and what did they do about it?

Based on recent actions by leaders of the Dems, my hunch is they tried to sweep everything under the rug way back when. I believe that AC is, in essence, saying the same thing.
26 posted on 07/08/2003 4:23:56 AM PDT by Loyal Buckeye
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To: DPB101
In fact the decisive battles of this era took place inside liberalism.

What is called "liberalism" has morphed greatly over the years. The liberals of old, the classic liberals, the ones whose minds were open but not so open that their brains constantly fell out, now comprise a large chunk of today's conservatives. Why have so many former Democrats become Republicans? The typical comment you get from them is not some Damascus Road conversion experience, but rather "I didn't move; my party did." "Conservatism" is an empty term if not accompanied by a clear understanding about what is being conserved.

27 posted on 07/08/2003 4:31:50 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: FreedomPoster
They say they don't mind 'cause they don't have to deal with logistics.The speeches are dreadful and I would cringe in shame to associate myself with such even if I were liberal.Many conservatives are concerned about civil rights and the Patriot act.I promise the big sponsor of civil rights protests will be Communist/socialists.Hope conservatives know who they are dealing with and stay away from such association.
28 posted on 07/08/2003 4:33:04 AM PDT by MEG33
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To: HISSKGB
The question of support for Mao instead of Chang Kai Shek is one facet of history I need to explore from WW2.I know Lattimore had too many commie friends and the Soviets considered him a friend!I grew up with Dem parents passionately in favor of Chaing.
29 posted on 07/08/2003 4:43:53 AM PDT by MEG33
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To: DPB101
One cannot parse Ann's book by referencing individuals.

During every show that she has been on recently, the liberal talking head takes this individual reference method and attacks the premise of the book which only states the obvious.

As a whole, the democrat party is traitorous and defective.

Parsing the book down to the individual level creates a indefensible position and Ann has been unsuccessful in keeping them from doing it. They cannot win the argument otherwise.

30 posted on 07/08/2003 4:59:43 AM PDT by Cold Heat (Negotiate!! .............(((Blam!.)))........... "Now who else wants to negotiate?")
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To: DPB101
...Everyone says liberals love America, too. No they don’t. Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence.”...

I'm sorry, but this is the plain truth.
The only question is to define liberals.
31 posted on 07/08/2003 5:03:49 AM PDT by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud, hatch out!)
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To: DPB101
What David don't get, Ann gets...
In a nation that half of them that voted, voted for Al Gore, a certified half wit, IMO... And a part of the other half that voted believes America is a democracy.. Separating the nuances of colors of what stripe of Socialist their dealing with is beyond them, and is beyond me too.

The fear of McCarthism has been and is palpable. So much so that a discourse on the DSA was done only in whispers, or among the choir to themselves. Now that may change because of this book. Ann said what dummys like me would love to have said, in a best selling book for all to see(COVER) and read. David missed that in his screed. The democrats, all of them includeing Lieberman have no credibilty. So that is why it will depend on a "conservative" to discredit her or try to. Takeing the sting of her words away or try to.

Resurrecting McCarthy she did and inflamed and breathed life into the hearts of defeated and disgusted voters like myself. Maybe voting will work again. Powerful words that needed to be said. So guys like myself can invoke his name again. And maybe even in Wash D.C. cloakrooms too because obviously most of our reps. are as dumb as me. Us dummys can't no won't separate the Hiss's and Bonior's, or Howard Deans.

Ann writes with a (KISS)keep it simple stupid flair documented and referenced. A scholarly approach to writeing about a burning building bores me and I maybe not be alone. Powerful book that cuts McCarthy baiting off at the knees..

32 posted on 07/08/2003 5:16:27 AM PDT by hosepipe
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To: driftless
One small (?) stupid thing: Ho Chi Min wrote Truman on 8 occasions asking for help against the colonial aspirations of France. In the aftermath of the war, and in trying to help an ally, his lack of help may be understandable. But he didn't even acknowledge the letters. It might not have looked important then, but it became very important--disastrous in many ways for the U.S.--when Ho turned to Mao.
33 posted on 07/08/2003 5:31:24 AM PDT by jammer
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To: hosepipe
Your post made me think!Perhaps I get a bit"prissy" over Ann's flamethrowing!
34 posted on 07/08/2003 5:31:47 AM PDT by MEG33
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To: FreedomPoster
I keep wondering that about all the columns criticizing Ann and Treason. All of them seem to have major points that are refuted by a few direct quotes from the text.

Either that, or Ann isn't aware of the full text within her book, i.e.- someone helped her write it. How else would you explain the JFK references to Matthews? You'd assume she would have read and studies the whole book before appearing on the TV circuit.

35 posted on 07/08/2003 5:33:07 AM PDT by NYC Republican
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To: DPB101
bump for later...
36 posted on 07/08/2003 5:34:30 AM PDT by Constitutional Patriot
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To: jammer
Interesting point.France was then an ally so what could we do?
37 posted on 07/08/2003 5:34:58 AM PDT by MEG33
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To: DPB101
In fact, the Palmer Raids were triggered by a massive domestic campaign of terror conducted by anarchist organizations. It involved a hundred mail bombs and an attempt to blow up the Attorney General of the United States (Mitchell Palmer) and J.P. Morgan among others. One anarchist bombing killed 40 people – the biggest terrorist atrocity in American history until then. Another plot -- to poison 200 members of the Archdiocese of Chicago who were attending a dinner party -- failed when the guests only became sick.
Anarchists suck. And their violence started a few decades before 1920 if I recall...
38 posted on 07/08/2003 5:35:22 AM PDT by William McKinley (Free Kobe!)
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To: William McKinley
Emma Goldman is a famous anarchist,feminist who was at it in 1902.
39 posted on 07/08/2003 5:38:45 AM PDT by MEG33
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To: DPB101
That's Horowitz's point: she says nice things about JFK in the book, then attacks him in an interview with Chris Matthews--on the same points.

If that's not equivocating, pray tell what is?
40 posted on 07/08/2003 5:49:08 AM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.)
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To: driftless
Truman's fierce opposition to Communism? That's like saying McArthur was soft on Communism. China teetered and fell on his watch, an event that was clearly going to happen without our intervention. His track record in the Korean War was also less than stellar. I don't remember off the top of my head which other nations fell to Communism during his tenure, but I'd suspect that Cuba was one of them.

Many of the lingering security problems that we face today are directly the result of Truman's soft policies. He may have been the Democrat who was toughest on Communism, but he wasn't nearly tough enough.

41 posted on 07/08/2003 5:50:06 AM PDT by Steel Wolf (The slow blade penetrates the shield.)
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To: MEG33
Good question, especially given the ascendency of the de Gaulle sentiment in France. I don't have a good answer--other than to say that Truman could have at least given some sort of lip service, and perhaps some "covert" diplomatic aid with France, to Ho. I think those snubs became very important.

Disclaimer: I am one of the first to criticize others for making decisions about politicians' actions, safely esconced in different times and different circumstances from the politicians! So, I probably cannot go after Truman too hard, since he did have one or two other things on his mind.

I think the disclaimer points up some things that historians ignore about McCarthy, also. After all this was a time when people were SCARED--and rightfully so. Sputnik hadn't happened yet, but we HAD lost the nuclear secrets with Fuchs, the Rosenbergs, et al, and Stalin was seen as evil incarnate (which he was). So, to cast aspersions at McCarthy after the fact and divorced from the circumstances is ludicrous.

42 posted on 07/08/2003 5:51:06 AM PDT by jammer
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To: mr.pink
Her broad brush use of the word treason is by design a wake up call for those like Matthews who, unwittingly or not, supported the Clintons, who if not for the internet, Fox News, etc., may have succeeded in dismantling our military, may have succeeded in supplanting capitalism with socialism, which was and is their lifelong goal.

I was a lefty at one time and my wake-up call came when an economics professor, a defector from Cuba, enlightened me to the socialism he had seen first hand, and made me realize "the stupidos I was hanging out with" were not on the right side of the argument.

43 posted on 07/08/2003 5:52:31 AM PDT by wayoverontheright
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To: BohDaThone
I don't know which affair you are referring to, but the Ellen Rometsch affair took place in 1962 or 1963 while JFK was president.
44 posted on 07/08/2003 5:54:03 AM PDT by Alberta's Child
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To: Poohbah
One of Coulter's problems is that she often seems like two different people. The Coulter who appears on television is far less impressive than the one who writes books.
45 posted on 07/08/2003 5:56:16 AM PDT by Alberta's Child
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To: Alberta's Child
Hmm. Maybe the real author of her books is some guy named Casper.
46 posted on 07/08/2003 5:57:06 AM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.)
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To: jammer
Unlike Cheney,I think Truman was really out of the loop when Roosevelt died and was surrounded by a lot of people who at least were Soviet lovers .These were perilous times and I can't figure out all the things we might have done.
47 posted on 07/08/2003 5:59:12 AM PDT by MEG33
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To: MEG33
Leon Czolgosz is an anarchist who acheived infamy. And he was at it in 1901.
48 posted on 07/08/2003 5:59:51 AM PDT by William McKinley (Free Kobe!)
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To: jammer; MEG33
One of the greatest myths of modern American history is that the Vietnam War was an anti-Communist effort at its root. In fact, Ho Chi Minh was a nationalist first and foremost, and had been trying to include a resolution of "the Vietnam question" in almost every major treaty in Europe for decades leading up to the war.
49 posted on 07/08/2003 6:00:14 AM PDT by Alberta's Child
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To: Poohbah
Does she have a ghostwriter for her books?
50 posted on 07/08/2003 6:01:54 AM PDT by Alberta's Child
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