Jonah Goldberg: Democracy will be severely damaged if Californians recall Gray Davis

Union Leader ^ | 7/08/03 | JONAH GOLDBERG

[Lancey Howard]

....if Californians are allowed to recall Democratic Gov. Gray Davis.

Well, Californians are indeed "allowed".

Everyone should pay the price of mistakes made at the ballot box.

Why should the decent, traditional Americans who still remain in California pay for the stupidity and greed of the parasites who elect Democrats?

[sd-joe]

>> "If any thing, the recall effort may cause a turning away from the rifraff taking control"

Your statement displays an arrogance toward the people of California that is detestable.

You talk of the "masses" (not the people) just like the Communists talked of the "masses", with utter contempt. IMHO your thinking is straying in a very dangerous direction.

We citizens DO trust the elected representatives, BUT when a particular elected representative proves that HE is no longer worthy of trust, we have the Constitutional right to remove him.

Actually some of the referenda have been very wise - Prop 13 certainly was, and others as well.

The founders of this country believed in checks and balances in the government. The recall is one of those vital checks and balances.

[DB]

I live in California, you don't.

I have to live with consequences both now and in the future.

Voters did not elect Gore for President while Davis was elected Governor recently, that’s the difference.

The problem isn’t Gore or Davis.

The problem is the voters here in California.

Until the voters have a change of heart nothing will really change.

The voters won’t have a change of heart until they understand the consequences of their actions by actually suffering the results.

[DB]

Well if you can get a recall election for the Democrat controlled house and senate too I'd be all for it.

A new Republican governor gives all the other jerks in the legislator an out.

[DB]

The point is we are going to pay either way.

If we're going to pay dearly and we are, why not maximize the political return and have the public blame those actually responsible which goes way beyond Gray Davis.

[sd-joe]

>> "A recall effort allows voters to ignore the latter and focus entirely on the former."

No, a recall allows the people to fix a mistake that was made.

I find it incredible that so many people want to argue "whether there should be a recall process". There is really no argument possible on this point. The recall is part of the Constitution of the state. It is just as much a part of the governing procedures that were set up for this state as how elections are held, or anything else.

Remember that in the US, the States have the freedom to define their own governments, except for those explicitly enumerated powers that were given to the federal government.

[DB]

The cause of California’s woes is far beyond one guy, Gray Davis.

[DB]

I'm not arguing "whether there should be a recall process".

I'm arguing that the outcome of a recall in this particular situation could be worse in the long run than letting him stay. By letting him stay we may get some long term statewide change that is actually helpful.

[Alberta's Child]

Californians can do whatever they want, as far as I'm concerned. They can even replace their elected officials with a royal family, if that's what they want to do.

But if you think you're going to fix that state but dumping a moron like Davis, you're dreaming.

[kevkrom]

Who wants to volunteer to be Davis's replacement?

JimRob, ever think of going into politics?

[Alberta's Child]

The cause of California’s woes is far beyond one guy, Gray Davis.

You're absolutely right.

Three words come to mind . . .

White.
Bronco.
Chase.

[samuel_adams_us]

Shouldn't this read that democracy will be destroyed if gray isn't recalled?

[sd-joe]

"Well if you can get a recall election for the Democrat controlled house and senate too I'd be all for it.

A new Republican governor gives all the other jerks in the legislator an out."

Well recalling the governor is a start. It gives all of the other politicians a reality check.

Also there is no guarantee that the new governor will be Republican. IMHO it is the action of getting the bum out that is important, not who will replace him.

I think it might be interesting if "the terminator" was elected. Although he is a Republican, he is not a mainstream political Republican. He has so much individual character that he would take a lot of the heat both good and bad.

[Sloth]

But none of this is impeachable, which should be the only legitimate mechanism for removing a politician from office.

But I assume the recall law was passed by a legislature that was, in turn, selected through democratic elections. So why does girly-boy Goldberg think Californians deserve to experience only the consequences of their bad decisions (Davis) and not those of the good decisions (recall law)?

[sd-joe]

>> "But if you think you're going to fix that state but dumping a moron like Davis, you're dreaming."

It is a start. All movements start somewhere.

Showing politicians that there is a limit to what the population will swallow is a good thing.

[sd-joe]

"By letting him stay we may get some long term statewide change that is actually helpful."

This is where the difference of opinion is. IMHO:

By getting him out we may get some long term statewide change that is actually helpful.

[bert]

So it was in Athens, once the masses learned they could control the treasury they voted the wealth of others to their own pockets. The did away with uncomfortable restraints.

I understand there are many good folks in California and I count several as friends. The present debacle indicates the good guys have lost control of their own destiny. The masses have control and are not dealing kindly with the productive resources. It appears California was, something else is.

[headsonpikes]

I immediately saw the wisdom of your posted 'Disclaimer'. ;^)

He's being provocative, as is his wont, imo.

[eureka!]

Re#60 Generally, I would agree. But Grayout is a Rat in Rat country, unlike Whitman. Memories fade, Grayout is linked to big bucks and big vote machines. He could easily come back as a Senator.....

[Congressman Billybob]

Normally, Jonah is right on the money, but not this time. A recall is not just an "election in reverse." The fact that recalls against California governors have been attempted 31 times and failed, before this time, demonstrates the point.

Elections are regular as clockwork, every two (or four) years. Recalls are highly irregular. Only the worst of the worst are even threatened with recall. The merely bad politicians are subject to what Jonah praises -- the people have to tough it out, and learn their lesson.

Jonah's quarrel is not with the supporters of the Davis recall. It is with the people of California, who chose to but recall into their Constitution as a power separate from elections. Jonah is attacking the wrong people for the wrong reason on the subject of recall -- an error quite uncommon for him.

Congressman Billybob

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