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Gun safety teacher shot in accident
Syracuse Post-Standard ^ | July 10, 2003 | Pedro Ramirez III and John O'Brien

Posted on 07/10/2003 4:04:58 AM PDT by jalisco555

A student in a gun safety class accidentally shot his instructor in the leg Wednesday while unloading a Glock handgun at the instructor's home in Salina, Onondaga County sheriff's deputies said.

Patrick Sacco, 48, a former Liverpool police officer, suffered the wound to his right leg about 10:45 a.m. in the basement of his home at 110 Tempo Circle, where he was instructing three students on firearms safety.

Gary Kassel, 56, of Syracuse, was unloading the .40-caliber Glock and didn't realize there was still a round in the chamber when he pointed the gun at the cement floor and pulled the trigger "to render the gun safe," deputies said. A bullet ricocheted off the floor and struck Sacco.

Sacco, owner of Verdad Investigations and Protection Institute, refused treatment from medics and was planning to get medical help on his own, deputies said. No charges were filed. The investigation will continue, deputies said.

The students were licensed handgun owners taking a class that would certify them to be armed security guards, Sgt. John D'Eredita said.

At least two Onondaga County law enforcement agencies have had a history of accidental shootings with Glocks since 1992. The county probation department had three in the past eight years, and the sheriff's department had three in the past 11 years.

In the most recent case, a probation officer was unloading her Glock at home last year when it accidentally fired into the floor of her apartment and struck a downstairs neighbor.

The description of the shooting in Sacco's basement typifies Glock accidents, said Joseph Cominolli, a firearms expert and former Syracuse police officer.

Glocks are safe weapons if the handler knows what he or she is doing, Cominolli said. But a common problem is unloading the gun in the wrong order, resulting in a round of ammunition being left in the chamber without the user realizing it, he said.

"He screwed the procedure

up," said Cominolli, who designed and patented a manual safety device that can be added to Glocks. He based his opinion about Sacco's shooting on the description given by deputies. "It's a typical screw-up with the gun."

The correct unloading sequence is to take the magazine out, then pull the slide back to eject a round that might be in the chamber, then look in the chamber to make sure it's empty, Cominolli said. The trigger shouldn't be pulled at all when unloading, he said.

Cominolli questioned why Sacco was using live ammunition if he was teaching the students how to load and unload the gun.

Sacco hung up on a reporter seeking his comment. Kassel could not be reached for comment.

"If you're doing a malfunction drill or teaching someone how to load and unload, with a student you don't use live ammo," Cominolli said. "You don't even do that with cops."


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: New York
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; firearms; gunsafety; secondammendment
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To: George Smiley; glock rocks
Gary Kassel, 56, of Syracuse, was unloading the .40-caliber Glock and didn't realize there was still a round in the chamber when he pointed the gun at the cement floor and pulled the trigger "to render the gun safe," deputies said.

Anyone ever notice when incidents like this occur, or in criminal shootings, Glocks are the only guns mentioned by name?

The gun grabbers really have a hard-on when it comes to the lack of a manual safety, among other things.

21 posted on 07/10/2003 6:38:11 AM PDT by Euro-American Scum (Conservative babes with guns are so hot)
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To: Euro-American Scum
Sorry, but as soon as I read just the headline I thought, "Glock".
22 posted on 07/10/2003 6:45:09 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: jalisco555
The correct unloading sequence is to take the magazine out, then pull the slide back to eject a round that might be in the chamber, then look in the chamber to make sure it's empty...

That last part is the critical one. It doesn't matter how badly you screw up the order; if you look inside and you see a shiny brass thingee, it ain't unloaded!

Of course, that applies to any make. It's not just a Glock thing.

23 posted on 07/10/2003 6:45:44 AM PDT by Redcloak (All work and no FReep makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no FReep make s Jack a dul boy. Allwork an)
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To: jalisco555
note to self:

first, TALK.
THEN hang up.
(in that order...)

24 posted on 07/10/2003 6:48:32 AM PDT by dogbrain
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To: xsrdx
Cornholio?

Are you threatening me?

I NEED TP!

25 posted on 07/10/2003 6:50:37 AM PDT by Redcloak (All work and no FReep makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no FReep make s Jack a dul boy. Allwork an)
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To: jalisco555
I've never even touched a gun in my life and even I know that an semi-automatic handgun isn't unloaded until you take the round out of the chamber.
26 posted on 07/10/2003 7:02:25 AM PDT by Sofa King (-I am Sofa King- tired of liberal BS!)
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To: Euro-American Scum
The gun grabbers really have a hard-on when it comes to the lack of a manual safety, among other things.

It's not the lack of a manual safety in this case, it's just the nature of striker-fired guns in general. Since there is no hammer you can lower or decocker you can use, the only way to decock the pistol is by pulling the trigger. Perfectly safe as long as you always make sure the chamber is empty. Glocks are certainly exceptionally safe when used within the parameters of their design, but they are by nature not terribly "idiot friendly".

27 posted on 07/10/2003 7:03:35 AM PDT by RogueIsland
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To: AmericanMade1776
Not only what you mentioned, but pointing at a concrete floor and pulling the trigger. Are we talking Darwin candiates here or what? Do they think a bullet will magically stop the moment it hits concrete or steel, if there was a round in the chamber?
28 posted on 07/10/2003 7:03:50 AM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: robertpaulsen; Euro-American Scum
funny... the first thing I thought of was...

hmmm... must have some major gun legislation coming up.


that aside, I run a cold range. this darwin candidate was giving cherrys live ammo in his house. stupidity should hurt. he was lucky.

btw... I've seen kitchen windows shot out by an "empty" 1911, and a ceiling ventilated by a 12ga.

glocks don't have a monopoly on being handled carelessly.
29 posted on 07/10/2003 7:11:41 AM PDT by glock rocks (remember, only YOU can prevent fundraisers. become a monthly donor.)
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To: Eaker; Bacon Man
Bang - I mean ping!
30 posted on 07/10/2003 7:12:21 AM PDT by Xenalyte (I may not agree with your bumper sticker, but I'll defend to the death your right to stick it)
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To: joesnuffy
Guns dont wound idiot instructors, idiot instructors wound idiot instructors.
31 posted on 07/10/2003 7:17:01 AM PDT by SquirrelKing
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To: jalisco555
Perhaps this guy should have stuck with teaching students how to defend themselves against fresh fruit...and pointed sticks.
32 posted on 07/10/2003 7:19:39 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: jalisco555
bump
33 posted on 07/10/2003 7:20:54 AM PDT by Jason_b
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Uh, dunno about other folks, but I call self loading weapons "safe" when I've removed the clip, worked the slide or bolt and _visually_ inspected the chamber and carrier to make certain there is no ammo in the weapon.
Even if it is empty, you are not supposed to dry-fire a weapon anyway.
Conclusion: The instructor was stupid or his students were not listening (and he was stupid to trust 'em!).

Still, as they say in Cowboy Action Shooting: there are two types of Cowboys; ones who have been DQ'd and ones who WILL be DQ'd.
34 posted on 07/10/2003 7:29:04 AM PDT by Little Ray (Stupid, STUPID rat creature...)
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To: glock rocks
"hmmm... must have some major gun legislation coming up."

Oops! I didn't know that card-carrying NRA members (member #025870227) were not allowed to criticize (hushed breath) Glock. Cool it with the inference.

Maybe Glocks don't have a monopoly on being handled carelessly, but you wouldn't believe it by the news reports. That was my point.

35 posted on 07/10/2003 7:35:13 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: Richard Kimball
They didn't say he flunked. He just shot the teacher.

LOL. If at first you don't succeed, try again.

36 posted on 07/10/2003 7:45:53 AM PDT by Pearls Before Swine (South-south-west, south, south-east, east....)
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To: jalisco555
Violated Cooper's Rules #1, 2, AND 3.
37 posted on 07/10/2003 7:45:59 AM PDT by Ed Straker
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To: jalisco555
"He screwed the procedure up," said Cominolli, who designed and patented a manual safety device that can be added to Glocks. He based his opinion about Sacco's shooting on the description given by deputies. "It's a typical screw-up with the gun."

I don't like Glocks but this had nothing to do with the design of that specific design. The quote is also from an "inventor" who seems to be pushing his product.

I have seen IDPA members reverse the order of clearing a semi-suto which shocked the heck out of me. That's one of the reasons I don't believe in pulling the trigger as the last "test" whether it loaded or not.

38 posted on 07/10/2003 8:01:18 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: George Smiley
George...in my Gun class here in massachusetts...the instructor had all the guns, and all the students , no matter what their background, were considered to be novices. The Instructor made sure all of his guns were empty, before the class began and at all times. Only during the actually shooting test, were we allowed to have a loaded gun, by that time the instructor was assured we knew how to handle a gun. The Gun test was also a one on one with the instructor.
39 posted on 07/10/2003 8:17:18 AM PDT by AmericanMade1776
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To: dfwgator
he is probably thinking the same thing this morning
40 posted on 07/10/2003 8:18:39 AM PDT by AmericanMade1776
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