Senate: End Abortion Fund Limits Abroad (Mexico City policy)

yahoo News! ^ | Wed Jul 9 | KEN GUGGENHEIM

[John O]

and your argument doesn't hold water in that just because people had an abortion they are no longer a Catholic. Ridiculous!

Church law states that upon having an abortion (or performing one IIRC) the person is automatically excommunicated. Again, patent or someone from his catholic ping list will need to verify and provide the exact reference. But the law still stands. They may be a catholic at the start of the abortion but they are not one at the end of it. (I'll try to find it for you but they'll probably know exactly where to look)

Now you've not addressed the fact that birth control always leads to more sexual activity (most of which occurs outside of marriage) which leads to more pregnancies which leads to more abortions.

[John O]

Here's one page I found that discusses it. Many more exist. Canon Law and Abortion

"Can. 1398 -- A person who procures a successful abortion incurs an automatic (latae sententiae) excommunication. "

(this is the 1983 issuance of the canon law by Pope JPII.)

An article from the Natiuonal Catholic Reportor:
National Catholic Reporter article discussing same

From the vatican web site:
Declaration on Procured Abortion

(This article does not discuss the law but does discuss the reasoning behind it. Long read but worthwhile)

From the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church (on the vatican site):
ARTICLE 5 THE FIFTH COMMANDMENT
(excerpted)"2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,"77 "by the very commission of the offense,"78 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.79 The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society."

While the Catechism is on the web repeatedly I haven't been able to find the canon law listed in it's entirety yet and I'm out of time. (Perhaps someone on the catholic ping list has it bookmarked) So the above links will have to do for now.

[CyberAnt]

Sooooo ... what is your point!

Even if women know they will be excommunicted from their church - are you saying they won't have an abortion, or are you saying they won't let the clinic know they're Catholic, and therefore continue to attend church as though nothing happened.

Because the 2nd "or" is what I'm saying.

[John O]

My point is that the Catholic church relaxing it's ban on birth control will not lead to fewer abortions but to more.