Time bomb (North Korea is the absolute craziest place on earth – MUST READ article)

Sydney Morning Herald ^ | July 12 2003

[KC_Conspirator]

The lesseon is that you cannot fight a war with ambigous goals because then you get ambigous results.

[MattAMiller]

Yep, I looked it up and that's about the size of your average 8-year-old. Incredible.

[AmericanInTokyo]

Stepping into their odd mentality for a bit for strategy purposes, I really think they would not see that discrepancy. They would have lost incredible "face" in such an attack by pro-free forces on the Kim Il Sung Masoleum in P'yang.

[Focault's Pendulum]

Stepping into their odd mentality for a bit for strategy purposes, I really think they would not see that discrepancy. They would have lost incredible "face" in such an attack by pro-free forces on the Kim Il Sung Masoleum in P'yang.

I think I understand how you're reasoning this. Anything perceived by them as an agressive act, would give them their just to react.

[AmericanInTokyo]

North Koreans are easily offended. If any negative reference whatsoever is made to Kim Il-Sung or toward his image, there is all hell to pay by any and all 'offenders'.

Let alone, blow Kim Il Sung's body to bits in its mausoleum, would, shall we say, summon an unprecedented amount of wrath within the NK leadership and maybe even the people. Such an act would force them into a major conflict that would immediately result in their own national nuclear suicide. But the mentality is there, believe me there, it is there.

IMHO here, it is perhaps bound up 50% in Korean mentality and 50% in communist cult dictatorship mentality.

On the other hand, if we suddenly had the Lincoln Memorial, the Washington Memorial, JFK's gravesite, the Iwo Jima Memorial, the Vietnam Memorial and Ford's Theatre in D.C. all blown up at once, and we had an inkling of the adversarial 'culprit', what do you think the sentiment would be in this country? (Multiply that sentiment threefold and you know how the North Koreans and KWP would feel about such an attack on the symbolism of Kim Il Sung.

[Focault's Pendulum]

Such an act would force them into a major conflict that would immediately result in their own national nuclear suicide.

I understand the Oriental concept of "saving face". I always thought of it as the Medeival, "honor", extrapolated out exponentially 10X.

I had no idea, as you describe, that the Nk's,with full awareness of their consequential actions, would invite their own destruction. I'm beginning to understand. They will allow themselves to be destroyed in order to save their National Pride. Somewhat mind boggling to this Occidental.

[AmericanInTokyo]

i'll use japanese concepts here, but they apply to most other parts of Asia, imho....'honor' (meigen) is pertinent here. but more relevant, yet related is 'shame' (haji). 'face' (kao) is key. most Asian societies were built on very close knit, small rural communities where if you did not cooperate you were ostracized to the city limits and had to fend for yourself. this usually meant death by starvation or freezing to death, because no one would share their rice or shelter. combine this practice through thousands of years and an element of 'shame', or being 'embarrassed' in front of people serves as a potent factor in fostering pride and sensitivity (to being wronged) and self defense and survival. this is what the whole kamikaze spirit engenders, one's one survival against the cold outside world.

another important concept is, in Korean, of "you die, I die", which accounts for a lot of murder suicides in Korean culture, of 'taking down as many people with you as you can'. It is highly emotional and always irrational.

once you understand the basic underpinnings of a mass psychology, be it cultural or political, you can see it transcend into national policy and behavior of the country. the nation's behavior is a mere multiplication of it's smaller, deep cultural aspects. at the risk of generalizing here, that is why America as an entire nation often behaves overseas as individual Americans often behave (boisterous, good natured, loud, missionary zeal to convert to our ways, optimistic, altruistic, wanting to be friends with everyone, naive, confused when sensing no gratitude from those 'liberated'), and an entire nation of Korea often behaves overseas as individual Koreans often behave (emotional, aggressive, easily offended, short tempered, pessimistic/fatalistic, suspicious of others not like one's self, xenophobic, tactical, crafty).

[TigerLikesRooster]

N. Korea is a cult commune, which worships Kim Il-sung as the god. To N. Koreans, blowing up Kim's mausoleum is like blowing up Mecca to muslims. It will trigger an armageddon.

[Focault's Pendulum]

once you understand the basic underpinnings of a mass psychology, be it cultural or political, you can see it transcend into national policy and behavior of the country.

While my above highlight of your response can be applied to many cultures, your analysis on the whole, does begin to explain much of the Asian thought process.

What comes immediately to my mind, is the Japanese Emperor Man/God worship leading up to, and including WWII.

More importantly, if I might use Pre War and Wartime Japan as the comparison, it also explains much in the way of military response.

Because of the Age in which we live, any military under such a philosophy, without a doubt, poses a significant danger.

Query: How would one deal with this, short of total annialation.

[AmericanInTokyo]

I just dont have a good answer for that.

[Focault's Pendulum]

I wonder if there is an answer.