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French secret service 'kept CIA in the dark over Iraq and uranium'
The Telegraph (U.K.) ^ | 07/14/03 | Michael Smith

Posted on 07/13/2003 5:14:06 PM PDT by Pokey78

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To: Jim Robinson
And the anti-Republican/anti-Bush paleocon/paleolibertarian/buchananite/rockwellian/anarchist movement has combined with the Democrat/French/German/Iraq pro-terror axis.

Come on now Jim...you don't really believe this, do you? Please tell me you're being facetious.

301 posted on 07/14/2003 10:13:15 PM PDT by Cacophonous
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To: Cacophonous
Well, I'm not going to say that all Paleo's are antis or that it's necessarily a formal combination, however there sure are a lot of parallels:

The France/Germany/Iraqi/Democrat Party axis is opposed to the war on terror and are anti-America. The paleocon/paleolibertarian/buchananite/rockwellian/anarchist movement is equally opposed to the war and they willingly join with the communist led A.N.S.W.E.R International group to lobby/write/argue/protest against it, using the very same propaganda, disinformation, and democrat talking points and IMHO this makes them anti-America.

The France/Germany/Iraqi/Democrat Party axis generates endless streams of anti-American propaganda and uses it against us. The paleocon/paleolibertarian/buchananite/rockwellian/anarchist movement sucks up this propaganda and eagerly regurgitates it word for word to any and all who will listen.

The France/Germany/Iraqi/Democrat Party axis rabidly hates and attacks President Bush as their enemy number one. The paleocon/paleolibertarian/buchananite/rockwellian/anarchist movement rabidly hates and attacks President Bush as if he were enemy number one.

The France/Germany/Iraqi/Democrat Party axis rabidly hates and attacks the Republican Party at every opportunity. The paleocon/paleolibertarian/buchananite/rockwellian/anarchist movement rabidly and irrationally hates and attacks the Republican Party at every opportunity.

The France/Germany/Iraqi/Democrat Party axis defends, backs and or supports Islamist terrorists and the PLO over America and Israel. The paleocon/paleolibertarian/buchananite/rockwellian/anarchist movement defends, apologizes for, carries water for, sympathizes with, backs and or supports Islamist terrorists and the PLO over America and Israel.

302 posted on 07/14/2003 10:45:53 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Conservative by nature... Republican by spirit... Patriot by heart... AND... ANTI-Liberal by GOD!)
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To: Cacophonous
Now, perhaps I am being about half facetious here, but still, the end goals of these two sets of parallel groups are one and the same. They want President Bush out, they want the Republicans defeated, they want America out of the Middle East and they want FR DEAD!
303 posted on 07/14/2003 10:59:53 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Conservative by nature... Republican by spirit... Patriot by heart... AND... ANTI-Liberal by GOD!)
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To: Jim Robinson
The paleocon/paleolibertarian/buchananite/rockwellian/anarchist movement is equally opposed to the war and they willingly join with the communist led A.N.S.W.E.R International group to lobby/write/argue/protest against it, using the very same propaganda, disinformation, and democrat talking points and IMHO this makes them anti-America.
Not this libertarian. Read the following: Iraq: Lessons Of Terror Learned
304 posted on 07/14/2003 11:12:01 PM PDT by nunya bidness (It's not an assault weapon, it's a Homeland Defense Rifle.)
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To: Jim Robinson
Now, perhaps I am being about half facetious here, but still, the end goals of these two sets of parallel groups are one and the same.

No, the goals of the paleos--such as I consider myself--are certainly NOT the same as liberals. I'll limit myself to those groups and let someone else address the others you lumped together (a dangerous unfair thing in and of itself, but never mind). And the groups are not parellel, nor do they have remotely similar headings.

They want President Bush out, , they want the Republicans defeated

Undoubtedly true of the liberal democrats, because he is not a Republican; paleos don't so much want Bush out, as they want a President that will restore what is possible of the Constitutional Republic, including a sensible foreign policy, a trade policy that puts America first, etc., in. Doesn't matter if that person is Bush, some other Repuiblican, a Libertarian, or whomever. There is no PaleoConservative Party.

they want America out of the Middle East

Paleos want, to oversimplify, for America to avoid foreign entanglements and enchanting alliances. I don't think liberals would pull the US out of the Middle East; they object to President Bush's leading us the because he's a Republican and is taking the glory. If, God forbid, Al Gore had been President, I would wager we STILL would be in the Middle East, although with liberal spin, and all the trappings. The end result would be the same: American troops posted indefinitely in a hostile region; like the Balkans.

and they want FR DEAD

Probably true of liberals, as they think the 1st Amendment applies only to them, but I for one like FR and would not want to see it go away. I don't know how much of the rest of the paleo world pays much attention to FR.

305 posted on 07/15/2003 4:05:17 AM PDT by Cacophonous
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To: OWK
And most here would agree with him.

Of course. There are laws. They limit freedom.

Do you think I should have the freedom to look up any LF jihadist poster and follow my inclinations?

I didn't think so ;).

306 posted on 07/15/2003 5:17:55 AM PDT by Cachelot (~ In waters near you ~)
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To: Sabertooth; Amelia; OWK; Jolly Rodgers
Well, this whole thing has been bugging me, and I've been trying to justify my position to myself -- a sure sign that I'm avoiding the nub of the question.

Ironically, my original post wasn't even entirely serious. I got sucked into a finger-pointing match -- my mistake -- and said things I should not have said. However, it was foolish to insist that the sweeping statement was true, and I should not have done so. I therefore retract the sweeping statement I made.

However.

While I did overreach when I made the comment, there are those who make the connections -- for example, equating neo-cons and Jews; or (as Ron Paul recently did), neo-cons and communists. And of course those who make the full connection.

In that vein, it is instructive to look at a Google search on the keywords neo con Israel jew.

You'll note that there are indeed a lot of nasty anti-semetic hits. There are also sites that discuss the issue in a less rabid form, but nevertheless make the same connection. Which is to say, there is a significant segment for whom "neo-con" does indeed mean "Jew", "Communist," or both. So my comment was not without some truth.

There are also those who, like our friend Jolly, toss "neo-con" around as an insult, and even as a tactic for stopping debate (I seem to recall being accused of much the same thing). Given the size of the audience that is receptive to the less wholesome nuances of "neo-con", let me suggest that those who would use the term in polite conversation might do well to reconsider, lest they be once again lumped in with the nice folks at stormfront.org.

307 posted on 07/15/2003 7:03:38 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb
Thanks - a very reasoned post, and I admire someone with the guts to admit they are wrong. I also agree about the sometimes-negative connotations of the term "neo-con".
308 posted on 07/15/2003 10:16:56 AM PDT by Amelia (It's better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness)
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To: r9etb
Well, this whole thing has been bugging me, and I've been trying to justify my position to myself -- a sure sign that I'm avoiding the nub of the question.

Fair enough.

Ironically, my original post wasn't even entirely serious.

Oh, I see. The old, "I was just kidding" excuse.

I got sucked into a finger-pointing match...

You got suckered? There you were innocently minding your own business when someone came along and suckered you into making the anti-semitic outburst? Okey-dokey.

... -- my mistake -- and said things I should not have said.

Now I'm beginning to wonder which part of what you said you are regretting.

However, it was foolish to insist that the sweeping statement was true, and I should not have done so. I therefore retract the sweeping statement I made.

The sweeping statement... So, is it the fact that you appealed to anti-semitism that bothers you, or the fact that you used it overbroadly that bothers you?

However.

An apology with a "but" is no apology at all. It is a rationalization for having done something you know was wrong, but just can't shake.

While I did overreach when I made the comment, there are those who make the connections -- for example, equating neo-cons and Jews; or (as Ron Paul recently did), neo-cons and communists. And of course those who make the full connection.

So, it was the overreaching you regret, not that you resorted to the tactic in the first place.

In that vein, it is instructive to look at a Google search on the keywords neo con Israel jew.

And to confirm that point, you're going to go right back and occupy the same ground that you are feigning an apology for.

You'll note that there are indeed a lot of nasty anti-semetic hits. There are also sites that discuss the issue in a less rabid form, but nevertheless make the same connection. Which is to say, there is a significant segment for whom "neo-con" does indeed mean "Jew", "Communist," or both. So my comment was not without some truth.

Uh-huh. Let us know your true feelings. Don't hold back.

There are also those who, like our friend Jolly, toss "neo-con" around as an insult, and even as a tactic for stopping debate (I seem to recall being accused of much the same thing). Given the size of the audience that is receptive to the less wholesome nuances of "neo-con", let me suggest that those who would use the term in polite conversation might do well to reconsider, lest they be once again lumped in with the nice folks at stormfront.org.

Oh, yes. There it is. Your true self escapes again in all its perverted glory. Here's a tip: When apologizing for something, its usually best not to conclude by repeating that very same thing over again. ;-) Have a nice day.

309 posted on 07/15/2003 12:02:16 PM PDT by Jolly Rodgers
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To: Cachelot
Do you think I should have the freedom to look up any LF jihadist poster and follow my inclinations?

Is your inclination to use violence against those who speak words you don't like?

310 posted on 07/15/2003 12:03:39 PM PDT by Jolly Rodgers
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To: Jolly Rodgers
Is your inclination to use violence against those who speak words you don't like?

Who mentioned violence? Plenty of other protections under the law.

Be grateful that there is law. Without it, you'd be meat.

311 posted on 07/15/2003 12:08:10 PM PDT by Cachelot (~ In waters near you ~)
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To: Jolly Rodgers
Jolly, me boy, ye didn't even read fer comprehension. In the future ye might want to try it before shooting off your mouth.

Oh, I see. The old, "I was just kidding" excuse.

I'm telling the truth. Accept it or not, but that's your problem. FWIW, I originally thought of spelling it "joo-boy commonists," to give it the proper red-neck feel.

You got suckered?

No, I got "sucked into," that is drawn into a finger-pointing contest, with you, following the post in question.

As for the rest, you're just continuing the finger-pointing. That's your problem, and I'll leave you to it.

312 posted on 07/15/2003 12:13:22 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: Cachelot
Who mentioned violence? Plenty of other protections under the law.

So, what is it that you are inclined to do to LF jihadists that is against the law, but is not violent?

Be grateful that there is law. Without it, you'd be meat.

Meaning what, specifically?

313 posted on 07/15/2003 12:28:25 PM PDT by Jolly Rodgers
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To: Jolly Rodgers
So, what is it that you are inclined to do to LF jihadists that is against the law, but is not violent?

Hehehe. You'd just dream bad dreams. Now, would I do that to you? Anyway, the question is moot, since I'm a great fan of the law.

Meaning what, specifically?

Meaning that without the law you'd have anarchy - which is probably desirable for you, given your nick. However, it would mean that you'd be prey to whoever might want your property, whoever didn't like you, or whoever might just be crazy. Life in those conditions, according to historians, was "nasty, brutish and short". Kinda like in muslim societies, in fact.

314 posted on 07/15/2003 1:30:03 PM PDT by Cachelot (~ In waters near you ~)
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To: Jim Robinson
The France/Germany/Iraqi/Democrat Party axis rabidly hates and attacks the Republican Party at every opportunity.

The paleocon/paleolibertarian/buchananite/rockwellian/anarchist movement rabidly and irrationally hates and attacks the Republican Party at every opportunity.

Well said. Thank you.

315 posted on 07/15/2003 4:17:00 PM PDT by mac_truck
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To: Cachelot
Hehehe. You'd just dream bad dreams. Now, would I do that to you? Anyway, the question is moot, since I'm a great fan of the law.

You fancy yourself the master of the veiled and ambiguous threat. You like to lay it out there and the play dumb when called on it. The problem is, it is so transparent it only demonstrates your immaturity and the undercurrent of impotence that yearns for the ability to hurt people.

Meaning that without the law you'd have anarchy - which is probably desirable for you, given your nick. However, it would mean that you'd be prey to whoever might want your property, whoever didn't like you, or whoever might just be crazy. Life in those conditions, according to historians, was "nasty, brutish and short". Kinda like in muslim societies, in fact.

Attack anarchy all you like. Heck, attack my handle if you like, too. It just further confirms your lack of maturity. All that bravado and you can't even get it pointed in the right direction. Oh, and I like the shot at muslims. That's rich. Puts you right up there with the other racist. R9etb. Good going. Have you any more pre-pubescent gems to throw out?

316 posted on 07/15/2003 8:29:46 PM PDT by Jolly Rodgers
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To: Jolly Rodgers
You fancy yourself the master of the veiled and ambiguous threat

Do I now? Really??

Attack anarchy all you like

If I was to attack anarchy all it deserved, I couldn't do anything else for a week. Suffice to say that anarchists have traditionally been terrorists and bomb-throwers, and anarchy itself is a perpetual state of war.

Heck, attack my handle if you like, too

You really should do something about that paranoia. Have you considered medication? I was just commenting that your choice of handle makes it likely that you have, in fact, a soft spot for anarchy and anarchists. I'm really not suggesting that you're the author of the "cookbook" or the black-hooded guy with that "shoot their officers" banner.

Feel free to read your Bakunin and flap your little black flag all you want ;)).

Oh, and I like the shot at muslims. That's rich. Puts you right up there with the other racist.

You are a racist for making an observation about muslim societies? There's a muslim race??

Actually, that kind of delusion sounds almost racist to me....

317 posted on 07/16/2003 4:37:07 AM PDT by Cachelot (~ In waters near you ~)
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To: Cachelot
Keep it up hotrod and you're going to get FreeRepublic listed as a hate site. Is that what you want?
318 posted on 07/16/2003 9:05:36 AM PDT by Jolly Rodgers
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To: Jolly Rodgers
Keep it up hotrod and you're going to get FreeRepublic listed as a hate site

Actually, it won't be. Except maybe if your pals from LF manage to invade the place to an unprecedented degree without being noticed. Trust me on that ;). Now, feel free to educate us on how muslims are a "race".

Anyway, do you have anything rational to say at all? Like what we were discussing, the role (and rule) of law? Or do you have to air the pot out of your head first?

319 posted on 07/16/2003 9:25:32 AM PDT by Cachelot (~ In waters near you ~)
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To: Jolly Rodgers
Hey pirate boy -- if you're gonna call me names, at least ping me so I can laugh right in your face.
320 posted on 07/16/2003 9:30:34 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: Jim Robinson
I like the sound of a baseball bat making a solid connection. Its a line drive.
321 posted on 07/16/2003 12:38:06 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (RATS will use any means to denigrate George Bush's Victory.)
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To: r9etb; Cachelot; Jolly Rodgers
If they were laying bets on which of you wouldn't get a suspension, r9 might have been the longshot...

Hopefully, Jolly and Cachelot will be back with us shortly. I didn't really see anything "racist" in r9's posts though perhaps they could have been worded slightly differently.

322 posted on 08/28/2003 6:54:31 AM PDT by jjbrouwer (If this thread gets pulled, you can read an exact xerox in the "Tard Bar" at LP)
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To: Imal
Careful, Imal. You'll have to start wearing that tinfoil hat. Go to UN.org and start reading. The NWO is alive and well and trying desperately to take down this country.
323 posted on 08/28/2003 11:22:23 PM PDT by ETERNAL WARMING
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To: Calpernia; PhiKapMom; BOBTHENAILER
NIGER'S LOW SECURITY FOR URANIUM, RADIOACTIVE MATERIALS UNDER SCRUTINY
324 posted on 09/21/2003 9:47:55 PM PDT by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge.)
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To: Jim Robinson
ROFLMAO, Now that's an AXIS
325 posted on 10/13/2003 3:38:35 PM PDT by MJY1288 (This is your tagline "Bush/Cheney04", this is your tagline on drugs "AnyOtherChoice/04")
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