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Guantanamo Bay detainee suicide attempt
theage.com.au ^ | Thursday 17 July 2003, 6:05 AM | AP

Posted on 07/16/2003 10:45:37 PM PDT by Destro

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To: Destro
.....suicide.....

Whimp.

21 posted on 07/17/2003 6:30:05 PM PDT by DoctorMichael (>>>>>Liberals Suk. Liberalism Sukz.<<<<<)
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To: Destro
Guantanamo Bay detainee suicide attempt

For my part, let's just say I'm glad his suicide attempt occurred in an environment that made it impossible for him to involve 5,000 other people in his endeavor.

22 posted on 07/17/2003 6:54:09 PM PDT by He Rides A White Horse (For or against us.........)
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To: John_11_25
Just think what happened with this new world court for the Trial of War criminals. The US rejected it out of sight and will not sell arms to any of the countries that would send US militiary to this court.

Staying away from the International Criminal Court (ICC) was the right thing to do. The ICC is an independent court composed of international jurists with universal jurisdiction over war crimes, etc.

Not a bad idea in concept, but the problem is that its independence also makes it unaccountable, there are no checks or balances. It does not answer to the UN or the Security Council or any other body.

It is supposed to defer to nations that conduct their own investigations, trials, etc; but the ICC can claim jurisdiction at any point if they themselves determine that an investigation came to the wrong conclusion, the trial was unfair, or the sentence inappopriate.

That is the crux of the problem with this court for the USA. Obviously there are people on the international legal scene who harbor substantial anti-Americanism or whose ideology is hostile to American principles or who may disagree with an American foreign policy decision. Many of these people will be on the ICC and doubtless some would use the authority invested in the ICC to pursue their anti-American agenda.

23 posted on 07/17/2003 6:54:55 PM PDT by mark502inf
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To: Destro
Sort of casts a pall on the idea of AU as a 51st state http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/948165/posts (as discussed earlier), doesn't it?
24 posted on 07/17/2003 7:10:00 PM PDT by Kay Ludlow
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To: Destro
They screwed up down there. They should've gave him more rope.
25 posted on 07/17/2003 7:14:54 PM PDT by b4its2late (FOOTBALL REFEREES: Best seats in the house and we're paid for it!!!!!)
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26 posted on 07/17/2003 7:15:42 PM PDT by Bob J (Freerepublic.net...where it's always a happening....)
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To: John_11_25
Would there have been Evidence to tie Hitler to the holocaust? Terrorism is a military conspiracy. No nation to target, no evidence of criminal activity. Everything is covert, and inside sources turn up dead. One side fights by Marquis of Queensbury, the other stabs babies in the back and blows up mothers.
None of these rats deserves the privilege of a civilian trial.
27 posted on 07/18/2003 4:37:12 AM PDT by steve8714
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To: mark502inf
not POW's...illegal combatants. POW's wear the uniform of their Nation. IC's dress in dirty nightshirts and hide behind women and children.
28 posted on 07/18/2003 4:39:53 AM PDT by steve8714
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To: steve8714
not POW's...illegal combatants. POW's wear the uniform of their Nation. IC's dress in dirty nightshirts and hide behind women and children.

If someone is captured during a war and suspected of a crime, then they are charged and tried. That is what the process at Guantanamo is about--figuring out which of these guys were just combatants & need to be held as such and which ones committed some type of a crime and need to be tried and sentenced as criminals.

29 posted on 07/18/2003 6:09:16 AM PDT by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf
yes, by military court. They do not deserve civilian US justice.
30 posted on 07/18/2003 7:35:09 AM PDT by steve8714
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To: steve8714
A military tribunal is the way to go
31 posted on 07/18/2003 8:02:57 AM PDT by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf
The entire point is its independance, however the US is upset because it or the UN does not have leverage or a veto, and so it should not, a court of law is a court of law.

Verdicts should be based purley on the evidence at hand.

No evidence, no trial. Bad evidence, then equit. Good evidence, then confict and you pay the price, no matter what your position in live, government, military, civilian.

I am not saying that this is the best court, we will have to wait and see, but on the other hand, when the last days do come, and we are all judged individually, no one will have a veto, so we better get used to it.

32 posted on 07/18/2003 11:41:59 AM PDT by John_11_25
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To: mark502inf
If they are Prisoners of War, they are entitled to rites as in the geneva convention.

Article 110

The following shall be repatriated direct:

1. Incurably wounded and sick whose mental or physical fitness seems to have been gravely diminished.

3. Wounded and sick who have recovered, but whose mental or physical fitness seems to have been gravely and permanently diminished.

The conditions which prisoners of war accommodated in a neutral country must fulfil in order to permit their repatriation shall be fixed, as shall likewise their status, by agreement between the Powers concerned. In general, prisoners of war who have been accommodated in a neutral country, and who belong to the following categories, should be repatriated:

this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:

(a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

(b) Taking of hostages;

(c) Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment;

(d) The passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.

Article 4

A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:

1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:

(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

(c) That of carrying arms openly;

(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

1. Those whose state of health has deteriorated so as to fulfil the conditions laid down for direct repatriation;

2. Those whose mental or physical powers remain, even after treatment, considerably impaired.

33 posted on 07/18/2003 12:16:39 PM PDT by John_11_25
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To: steve8714
So with your logic or to the victors go the spoils of war and only the vanquished will be found guilty.

With this logic lets hope the allies win but when any of the allies are taken prisoner or murdered like Danial Perle, then do not complain, as they see the allies the way you see them.

There is only one Geneva Convention, so we should all follow it, those that do not should be tried as War Criminals.

34 posted on 07/18/2003 12:22:29 PM PDT by John_11_25
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To: steve8714
not POW's...illegal combatants. POW's wear the uniform of their Nation. IC's dress in dirty nightshirts and hide behind women and children. The above quote is not correct, read the Geneva Convention.

Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:

1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:

(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

(c) That of carrying arms openly;

(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

35 posted on 07/18/2003 12:28:22 PM PDT by John_11_25
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To: John_11_25
I am not saying that this is the best court, we will have to wait and see, but on the other hand, when the last days do come, and we are all judged individually, no one will have a veto, so we better get used to it.

When the last days come and we get judged, there will be no doubt about jurisdiction or fairness. Those are both problems under the ICC. Until some safeguards are installed to prevent politically motivated prosecutions, we need to stay out of it.

36 posted on 07/18/2003 3:52:53 PM PDT by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf
Until some safeguards are installed to prevent politically motivated prosecutions, we need to stay out of it. What you mean is "until we can excert unenough pressure to have the outcome of the trial we want, we should stay out". This is typical colonial style.

I do not expect the US government to admit this, but regardless, it is what it looks like to the rest of the world.

It's time the US had a paradigm shift on some of it's foreign policies and look at them from the international worlds view point.

37 posted on 07/19/2003 3:08:36 AM PDT by John_11_25
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To: John_11_25
What you mean is "until we can excert unenough pressure to have the outcome of the trial we want, we should stay out". This is typical colonial style. I do not expect the US government to admit this, but regardless, it is what it looks like to the rest of the world.

Colonial style? We want to prevent an unaccountable foreign court from trying our citizens and you accuse the USA of operating "colonial style"? You have this 100% backwards. It is an outside authority attempting to impose their rules & jurisdiction over Americans--not the other way around.

BTW, did you see what happened while Belgium was going through their little "universal jurisdiction" experiment? Every fruitcake lefty lawyer with an ax to grind was in there filing charges against everybody from both Bushes and Blair to Generals Franks & Schwarzkopf & Colin Powell.

The Belgies finally gave it up when people started filing charges against their own ministers. At least they had a government which was elected by the people and was a participant in international institutions and so had to demonstrate a reasonable amount of accountability.

The ICC will have all the universal jurisdiction and none of the accountability.

It's time the US had a paradigm shift on some of it's foreign policies and look at them from the international worlds view point.

We already do that. And we try to build agreements or come to compromises. But our foreign policy is based on the interests and values of the US--that is why it is called US foreign policy. No different than the way the UK, France, Germany, China, etc or any other country looks at it.

38 posted on 07/19/2003 5:54:04 AM PDT by mark502inf
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