SILENT DEATH LURKS FOR PLEASURE BOATERS

SF Chronicle ^ | 7/18/03 | Tom Abate, Chronicle Staff Writer

[randita]

Folsom, Sacramento County -- Mike Farr dived off a friend's ski boat into Lake Folsom moments after his 11-year-old son sank below the churning waters while bodysurfing in the vessel's wake.

"I swam as deep as I could and as far as I could," said Farr, his voice cracking. "I expected to catch an arm, but there was nothing."

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Damn - I knew that CO buildup was dangerous in the cabin, but this is a new one by me. It does make sense, though - CO being heavy and all.

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[tdadams]

Sounds like just another excuse for a liberal newspaper to put the kibosh on anything that's fun.

[alisasny]

Bottom line is the kid should have been wearing a vest. Really no excuse for that. The kid was only 11 and while perhaps a good swimmer could he swim all the way to shore with no vest? What if he hit his head and sunk?

[chris1]

This is another sick lawsuit. Everyone with a boat knows to stay far far away from the prop while it is running. Second, how old was this kid? If the father 27 y/o, the kid can't be more than 10 or 12, and he lets him do this without a life jacket??????

[x1stcav]

I've spent a big part of my life around boats, both power and sail, and I think this is another contrived product liability lawsuit. You're right, CO is heavier than air and most of the time boats are moving. Lastly, if you're on the ocean there is almost always wind blowing.

The only time I've felt dizzy in a marina was because of incipient AlCoHl poisoning.

[Piquaboy]

There is only one remedy. Confiscate all the boats.

[dennisw]

I find this hard to believe that CO can have any effect in the great outdoors. It has to be easier to be hit by a meteorite than to be killed by CO coming off a boat engine.

This is lawyer propelled OBVIOUSLY!

[pabianice]

BAN BOATS! If it saves just one child...

[clamper1797]

What an absolute pantload ...

[stainlessbanner]

45 deaths nationwide since 1990

How many wore life vests? How many were Coast Guard certified to operate a boat?

There's more to this story

[Space Wrangler]

It happens. And mostly to kids who want to body surf off the back of the swim paltform on the newer ski boats. I actually took part in an attempted rescue of a 13 y/o girl about 5 yrs ago who had succumbed to CO2 poisoning. Sadly, she wasn't recovered, and that one ended up being a fatality. It's not anywhere near as dangerous as this article lets on, but it is a problem none the less. The main thing to do is steer clear of the boats exhaust, which by the very nature of how boats discharge exhaust, menas to just stay away from the back of the boat while it's underway. If you do have to be at the back of the boat for some reason, wear a life jacket. It's not the CO2 that gets you, it just knocks you out. It's the falling in the water and unconsiously sucking in water while attepting to breathe that kills. I have heard of CO2 poisonings happen on houseboats and cruisers, but that is when there is a malfunction with the exhaust system. My houseboat has CO2 detectors throughout, but the way the boat is made renders it nearly inpossible for CO2 build-up to be a problem on my particular boat. The easy way to avoid 90-95% of these CO2 induced drownings, is to not allow any body surfing from the swim platform. And I'd rather see the boating community educate boaters about it instead of passing yet another law.

[N. Theknow]

Did this happen on a SUB?

Sport Utility Boat

[capt. norm]

"You're right, CO is heavier than air "

Sorry...it isn't heavier than air. It weighs slightly less (0.98) than air and although it is odorless, the combustion products that accompany it (tyical engine emission) can be easily detected by scent.

[FourPeas]

How tragic. It sounds more like a weird fluke than any sort of terrible danger for which anyone should be sued. I don't have a problem with the kid not wearing a life vest. At that age, I was a strong enough swimmer that I wouldn't have needed a vest to stay afloat for long, long periods of time -- as long as I wasn't poisoned with carbon monoxide.

[clamper1797]

carbon DI-oxide is heavier than air MON-oxide is not

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

The CO situation is dangerous, but I can't believe that any responsible, rational minded boat owner (let alone a parent!) would allow this activity, as described, to be performed behind his boat.

"Honestly, I thought it was the safest thing I've done in my boat," said Sean McKune, 29, Farr's neighbor and the owner of the ski boat.

To me, this statement proves that Sean McKune is a fool and needs to attend some Power Squadron training.

Without the traditional tether to the person in the wake, the possiblity is very good that the surfer could go under and be dragged along under the water and not be able to surface. Long enough to drown even without help from the CO. Very much like being caught in an undertow.

[gridlock]

If you're two feet from the exhaust while the boat putt-putts along at low speed through a dead calm, I could see this happening. These boats put out an awful lot of exhaust.

Of course, this problem could be solved if people stopped doing really stupid things like hanging out two feet from the exhaust while the boat putt-putts along at low speed through a dead calm...

I will bet you dollars to donuts that this boat had prominently placed warnings about staying off the swim platform while the boat is in operation. If it had an even bigger warning, going into the ins and outs of Carbon Monoxide toxicology, do you think it would have changed a thing?

People do stupid things on boats every day. Sometimes it ends in tragedy.

[chris1]

This whole thing seems rather bizarre to me. Suing in this case is typical if many freeloading attorneys. This coming from an attorney myself.

[Calvin Locke]

It does make sense, though - CO being heavy and all.

Absolutely.

Running an ICE In your bathroom skiing in your bathtub.

I'll even throw in the possibility of it happening in an indoor pool.

[Ole Okie]

There is only one remedy. Confiscate all the boats.

Absolutely!

Boats and motors are already registered. So obviously registration is ineffective at countering this towering CO menace, second only to global warming in magnitude.

Confistication is the only solution. And trial lawyers will help in this process so their exhorbitant fees can be paid from proceeds from the boat/motor sales.

On second thought, who they gonna sell all those evil, godless carbon monoxide-belching boats and motors to?

China?

[AD from SpringBay]

Sounds like another national crisis. Time for the Federal Boating and Water Safety Department.

[Space Wrangler]

It probably is fueled by the sharks..er.. I mean lawyers, but the way it usually happens is that the CO2 build up underneath the swim platform, and when the boat takes off, the CO2 gets pushed into the face of the young body surfer. This causes them to pass out and drown if they aren't wearing a lifejacket. It's not a faulty design, and every new boat that you buy, in addition to all the other warning stickers you have to peel off, there is one right on the back that warns of the CO2 problem.

This problem is easily prevented with the use of a lifejacket, just like most other boating related fatalities. I grew up around boats and we lived on the water from the time I was in 5th grade until I left for college. My mom made my sister and I wear a lifejacket anytime I was on the dock, in the boat, or in the water until I was 13 years old. I hated it, and cursed that #%$@ lifejacket and my mom for making me wear it. We now own a houseboat, and my daughter dons her lifejacket from the minute we arrive in the marina parking lot. I've been a witness to three drownings in my life, and ALL would still be walking around today had they had one on. I don't wear one when just tooling around in either my houseboat or my ski boat, but I always wear one while on the jetski or participating in any watersports. Anything high risk, where there is a chance of being knocked unconscious and going into the water should require (and most states do) the use of lifejackets.

I also liked how the writer alluded to the emissions on boats not being controlled like that of cars, and that this somehow has to do with the problem. As if cars don't put off CO2 because enviro-liberal types have legislated out of existence.

[Tax-chick]

but I can't believe that any responsible, rational minded boat owner (let alone a parent!) would allow this activity

Really! I thought this was "The Onion" at first. I can't believe anyone would drag their child hanging on to the back of a power boat - or even a rowboat.

Do they also let their kids ride their skateboards holding onto the back of trucks?

[spunkets]

CO is not heavy. It's lighter than both O₂ and N₂. The exhaust from boat engines also smells strong enough that you will always know you're in a cloud of it.

[Redbob]

CO poisoning to a lesser extent is also common when mowing the lawn.

No, I'm not making this up!
Following a CO-producing lawnmower around for an hour (or two, if you've got a really big lawn) can produce the headaches and nausea typical of the early stages of CO poisoning.

And here you thought it was just the smell of grass doing that!

(Based on research done by Southwest Research Institute, San Antonio, Texas, who - surprise, surprise! - are trying to sell the gummint on their lawnmower emissions testing expertise)

[mtbopfuyn]

This is ridiculous. The boy should have been wearing a life vest. This body surfing this has got to be the stupidist thing I've heard today. We ALWAYS tell everyone NOT to get close to anywhere near the back of the boat unless the propellor has stopped. Yes, there are gas fumes so could be CO or whatever but I wouldn't know. I do know that 1) anyone skiing or other water sport should have on a vest, 2) you do not come anywhere near near a running propeller.

[Mamzelle]

re: the combustion products that accompany it (tyical engine emission) can be easily detected by scent. )))

My first thought. This is yet another bodacious bonanza for the lawyer parasites.

Hope the defense has some guts. Dad's failure to protect his son, in a world where we all wear seat belts, is ridiculous. I wouldn't normally pick on him, but he's now trying to get rich off his own negligence. So pick on him big time, defense counsel.

"Class-action suit to force new warnings"--baloney. It's a suit to cash in.

[Mamzelle]

re: Do they also let their kids ride their skateboards holding onto the back of trucks?)))

Why, yes--so they can sue the skateboard mfger and the truck mfger...

[Redbob]

"Boats and motors are already registered."

I know what we need! Waiting periods! And, and... and a ban on imported boats! And a ban on "assault boats" - you know, those "ugly boats" that look really really fast!

[cinFLA]

Sounds like just another excuse for a liberal newspaper to put the kibosh on anything that's fun.

Dying is fun? I guess maybe for Libertarians ....

[clamper1797]

I live near Sac on the Sacramento Delta where I have been boating and waterskiing since about 1973. I proudly call myself a river rat. I have been boating since I was around seven years old and presently own 3 boats.

The boater in this story is an idiot.

# 1. It is illegal to pull ANYONE adult of child ... by a boat who does NOT have a life jacket on.

# 2 Teak skiing is illegal in Calif ... I don't have the exact law with me here at work but could look it up. I do know it is a $500 fine cause I have been stopped for a variation of it. I own a large offshore racing power boat and 2 of my guests were sitting on the top of my rear hatch while I was idling. The Sheriff let me go with a warning saying that though it is highly improbable that my guests would fall into my prop ... the CO could cause them to pass out and they could fall overboard.

This case is a classic example of an unethical lawyer trying to make an easy buck.

[spunkets]

The parent is also trying to shift blame to someone other than himself.

[thepainster]

I am so tired of these lawsuits where people can't take responsibility for thier own actions. The kid should have had a life jacket on....period. In Texas any person under 12 years of age has to have a coast guard approved PFD on at all times while in or being towed by a boat. I feel sorry for the parents, but I am sure part of the reason for their lawsuit is to deflect some of the guilt they themselves must be feeling. If they want to do something constructive why not start and organization that educates people about teak surfing, or help get some laws passed that make this activity illegal.

In regards to putting catalytic converters on boats, this will not totally eliminate CO exhaust. There will still be the possiblity of this happening anyway. If you don't believe me just go run your car in your garage with the garage doors shut and see what happens.

[steveo]

Bottom line is the kid should have been wearing a vest

No the bottom line is the kid was dead from Carbon Monoxide poisoning before he went under. A life vest would have only kept him from sinking.

[tdadams]

Figures you would support anything that smacks of fascism. There's no act of statism that you won't embrace, is there?

What part of Free Republic don't you understand?

[thepainster]

Great minds think alike!

[thepainster]

Wrong, the kid was passed out but still alive. Get him some fresh air and he would have revived. He would have had a bad headache however.

[US admirer]

Carbon Monoxide - An Introduction:



Physical Properties of Carbon Monoxide:
Names: coal gas, coal fumes, wood gas, mine damp, white damp, carbon oxide, carbon monoxide

Colorless, odorless, tasteless, non-corrosive, highly poisonous gas of about the same density as that of air.

Very flammable, burning in air with bright blue flame.

M.W. = 28.01; 42.88% C, 57.12% O

Formula = CO. Although each molecule of CO has one carbon atom and one oxygen atom, it has a shape similar to that of an oxygen molecule (two atoms of oxygen), which is important with regard to it's lethality. Indeed, it is similar to two other gases necessary for life as we know it.


Melting point = -205.0° C; Boiling point = -191.5° C

Density = 1.250 g/liter at 0° C, 1 atm; 1.145 g/liter at 25° C, 1 atm

Density (gas) = 0.968

Solubility in water at:

0° C, 1 atm .............................. 3.54 ml/100 ml

25° C, 1 atm ............................ 2.14 ml/100 ml

37° C, 1 atm ............................ 1.83 ml/100 ml

Soluble in some organic solvents such as ethyl acetate, methyl chloride, acetic acid; about 7 times more soluble in methanol and ethanol than in water.


Flammable limits in air - 12-75 vol. %

[budwiesest]

Thanks for posting this. I was under the impression that he was being pulled on one of those floats that are dragged behind a boat. This happened about fifteen minutes from where I live.

[Space Wrangler]

Farr admits his son might be alive today had he been wearing a vest, as required by California law in most circumstances. But he didn't think it necessary because his son was a good swimmer, and the gear would have interfered with the teak surfing.

No, the cause of death was drowning. It always is. The only cases I know of actual cause of death by CO2 poisoning, is on houseboats or cruisers where people are asleep and unaware of the CO2 presence. The lifejacket DEFINITELY would have saved his life.

[alisasny]

He passed out from the gas and THEN drowned. He would not have drowned with the vest and a chance to rescue him was missed.

[clamper1797]

It is illegal to pull ANYONE adult of child = It is illegal to pull ANYONE ... adult or child

[Teacher317]

45 deaths nationwide since 1990

3.4 deaths per year? And this is a "dirty little secret" crisis? More people die from hair dryer accidents than boating CO. Maybe we need to remove all wiring from every home!

[Wonder Warthog]

"You're right, CO is heavier than air and most of the time boats are moving. Lastly, if you're on the ocean there is almost always wind blowing."

Sorry, but not. The molecular weight of CO is 28 (C=12, O=16), as is N2 (N=14), while that of O2 is 32. If there is a concentration buildup, it is either because of an enclosed space, or because kinetic mixing hasn't dispersed the source cloud--not because "CO is heavier than air".

[spunkets]

Thanks.

I'm guessing you got that from the web...

"M.W. = 28.01; 42.88% C, 57.12% O "

They gave the MW for N₂. It should read:
M.W. = 22; 27.4% C, 72.7% O

[cinFLA]

At least the writer (unlike you) correctly identified CO, not CO2.

[Timmy]

Tragic. But the guy is a moron and is primarily responsible for letting his 11-year old do this without a vest. Lakes are dangerous. Period.

[cinFLA]

Figures you would support anything that smacks of fascism. There's no act of statism that you won't embrace, is there?

Sounds like your kids need some protection; from you.