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Unpatriotic Conservatives -- A war against America. MANDATORY READ -- DETAILS PALEOCONSERVATIVES
National Review On-Line ^ | March 19, 2003 | David Frum

Posted on 07/24/2003 11:10:24 AM PDT by PhiKapMom

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To: PhiKapMom
March 19, 2003 9:30 a.m.

A helluva lot has changed since then ... you might even say this is stale; how many of their positions have changed now?

21 posted on 07/24/2003 11:29:06 AM PDT by _Jim (First INDICT the ham sandwhich ... the next step is to CONVICT it ...)
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To: PhiKapMom
This article paints with too broad a brush and it lumps together people of some very different stripes.

Certainly, few of the people identified as being of the same mind by this article have been citing Noam Chomski's views or notions in an approving manner. Yet, the implication of this article is that these people all love and cite Chomski now.

Also, I do not believe that Robert Novak is paleo-critter. And, while Novak has been sceptical on the current war in Iraq, he is and remains a patriot. Using his scepticism on Iraq to lump him with loonies like Pat Buchanan is at best misleading.
22 posted on 07/24/2003 11:33:12 AM PDT by Oldie
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To: _Jim
None that I have seen. That's what makes the article such a good read.
23 posted on 07/24/2003 11:33:28 AM PDT by Cyber Liberty (© 2003, Ravin' Lunatic since 4/98)
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To: PhiKapMom
I can't believe it either - those anti-everything people! Especially those anti-Ashcroft types. There's a WAR going on, he's doing everything possible to make Americans safe, to protect their liberties and all they can do is howl about the Constitution. It's a question of our very existence, not some ancient abstract principles.
24 posted on 07/24/2003 11:33:54 AM PDT by Barry Goldwater (Give generously and often to the Bush campaign)
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To: _Jim
Have their positions changed? If so, please post the articles or provide links to same.
25 posted on 07/24/2003 11:34:44 AM PDT by onyx (Name an honest democrat? I can't either!)
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To: Oldie
I think the point that was being made is that it matters not why the "paleos" seem to hate the "neos" more than the liberals, but that the effect is the same for all the mentioned pundits.

A nice bash for a Bush, with a thinly veiled desire for his loss to a Democrat. Really, I don't see any daylight between that position and Howard Dean's. That's the part I find unacceptable.

26 posted on 07/24/2003 11:36:41 AM PDT by Cyber Liberty (© 2003, Ravin' Lunatic since 4/98)
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To: PhiKapMom
This is a sample of one of the responses he got personally (the same kind of material you can find over at the libertyforum.org site linked above):

“Mr. Frum,

“I have on my desk at work a copy of the very first issue of The National Review. The National Review that you write for today has as much in common with that original edition as a horse has with a horsefly.

“You are not a ‘conservative’ nor are you an ‘American’ as you describe yourself.

“You are a jew. First, last always.

“You have been identified and people are no longer afraid to name the jew and to point out the irrefutable pattern of obfuscation, denial, silence and attacks used in the past to keep Americans from identifying jews as the problem with America. The ability to contain that absolute truth of nature- not rhetoric- has slipped past you while you pontificated about what America is. You wouldn't know, because it was a creation of White men, not jews. A stranger can tell me nothing about my own child and so the jew has nothing to offer me in describing my own nation.

“Jew.

“Enemy of the White Western Man that created our culture and our civilization. The polio vaccine is not enough to undo the damage caused by the Jew and as a far brighter man than you once observed about you and yours-‘Quickly he turns the attacker's charges back on him, and the attacker becomes the liar, the troublemaker, the terrorist. Same exact enemy. How to respond? Nothing could be more mistaken than to defend oneself. That is just what the Jew wants. He can invent a new lie every day for the enemy to respond to, and the result is that the enemy spends so much time defending himself that he has no time to do what the Jew really fears: to attack.’

“It is time to step up to the plate and men, good men, intelligent and deeply patriotic men are doing just that.

“I served my country in combat and so did my father and his father before him, for our people, not for yours- I don't fear conflict like the Fleishers, Perles, Wolfowitzes, Kissingers, Feiths, Abrams and Frums- I relish it.What unit did you serve in, chickenhawk?

“No one cares about the labels anymore, no one cares about the smears.We want our nation back, and we will have it.It doesn't belong to you and it never has. So call me what you like, for I know what you are- Jew.”

And if you wonder where that kind of miindset comes from as well as the kind of people who harbor it, review the Buchanan quotes on my profile.

27 posted on 07/24/2003 11:36:42 AM PDT by Chancellor Palpatine (...ignorance can be fixed, but stupid is forever...)
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To: PhiKapMom
The Supreme Court is set to rule on the Texas sodomy case!

I hear the decision regarding the University of Michigan affirmative action case is coming down soon too!

I also heard Mel Gibson is making a movie about Jesus! Anybody heard anything about it?

Phi Beta WHAT?

28 posted on 07/24/2003 11:36:48 AM PDT by d-back
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To: Barry Goldwater
Not about "Ancient Abstract Princibles"?!

Hoo boy. That's a deadly attitude.

Without the hard-won wisdoms and guidance of prior generations we'd be pulling slugs out of rotting tree bark for our daily bread.

29 posted on 07/24/2003 11:37:12 AM PDT by bvw
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To: Poohbah
The Marxist/Buchananist economic crusade in full view....
30 posted on 07/24/2003 11:37:36 AM PDT by Chancellor Palpatine (...ignorance can be fixed, but stupid is forever...)
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To: PhiKapMom
Hafta read this later...
31 posted on 07/24/2003 11:38:09 AM PDT by Cacophonous
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To: PhiKapMom
I missed it. So thanks for the renewed post. (Some of us aren't on FreeRepublic 24/7/365. For some people, duplicate posts are a pet peeve. To me, being told that a post I've seen for the first time is a duplicate, with the implication that the duplicate shouldn't have been posted, is a pet peeve.)

It would be easy to label these "paleoconservative" lunatics. Some of them are. But their motives and opinions are more complex than that. All I can say is that many of these "paleos" tend to oppose Israel, favor the Arabs, think the Confederacy was a pretty good idea, correspondingly think Abraham Lincoln was a tyrant, and generally oppose a strong US because a strong military requires a strong central government.

I have little sympathy for any of their positions. When someone like Lew Rockwell calls Clarence Thomas a "liberal" in his views regarding segregation in the South, I think Rockwell discredits himself and has confined himself to a lunatic fringe. Unfortunately, we on FR have to contend with such knuckleheads every day.

32 posted on 07/24/2003 11:38:35 AM PDT by My2Cents ("Well....there you go again.")
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To: d-back; PhiKapMom
Took only 28 posts to hear from a 'comedian' ---
33 posted on 07/24/2003 11:40:02 AM PDT by onyx (Name an honest democrat? I can't either!)
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To: Cyber Liberty
None that I have seen

Rationality, logic and practicaility would say that actively sporting an antiwar position after the event is ... only for the myopic idealist.

It's one thing to assume a stance *prior* to an event, during it's debate, unless, of course, you're a strict policy wonk/practicing egghead and don't deal with the real world on any scale -

- WHICH a lot of these people simply don't ...

34 posted on 07/24/2003 11:40:07 AM PDT by _Jim (First INDICT the ham sandwhich ... the next step is to CONVICT it ...)
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To: _Jim
You're right about the rationality, but I just don't see it. Dig up a couple of columns dated today or yesterday, and you'll still see the same old irrational rant.

It's sad to see people we know are smarter than that, digging themselves into that hole.

35 posted on 07/24/2003 11:42:17 AM PDT by Cyber Liberty (© 2003, Ravin' Lunatic since 4/98)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
"over at the libertyforum.org site"

A mild, festering cesspool where right and wrong take on equal status; a site where the avowed Marxist can berate his consevative or liberal opponent as if the communist system had validity and could actully carry it's weight in the real world ...

36 posted on 07/24/2003 11:46:17 AM PDT by _Jim (First INDICT the ham sandwhich ... the next step is to CONVICT it ...)
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To: My2Cents
All I can say is that many of these "paleos" tend to oppose Israel

It has been my observation that desiring a neutral stance towards Israel has been purposely misconstrued by neocons as being anti-Israel.

Of course this leads to the inevitible charge of antisemitism (racism). This isn't a new tactic at all. The Rats have used it for years with affirmative action: If you're against it, surely you must be a racist. Thus the focus is changed from debating the legitimate points of the matter to namecalling and maligning one's opponent.

37 posted on 07/24/2003 11:46:51 AM PDT by freeeee
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To: Cyber Liberty
I don't usually waste my posts on 400+ threads. Nobody would see it.

To quote the Thomas More character in MAN FOR ALL SEASONS:

You would see it. God would see it. Not a bad audience, that.

38 posted on 07/24/2003 11:48:47 AM PDT by sinkspur
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To: onyx
Comedy is often a way to express what is not considered "proper" to discuss, or what may be politically dangerous to express. Yet what is needed to be discussed.

In that way, it is often a response of the oppressed, of the "untouchable", outcast or despised class.

39 posted on 07/24/2003 11:49:19 AM PDT by bvw
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To: sinkspur
That is a very good point, sinks.

Hey, how ya been? I've been absent from the trenches of late (my District party Chairman is a real Adam Clymer).

40 posted on 07/24/2003 11:50:00 AM PDT by Cyber Liberty (© 2003, Ravin' Lunatic since 4/98)
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