Total Recall - His advisers say Arnold Schwarzenegger WILL run for governor~ John Fund

The Wall Street Journal. Editorial Page ^ | July 25, 2003 | John Fund

[Elle Bee]

The recall of Gov. Gray Davis is heading for a fall election. "It'll be covered like a mini-presidential race," says GOP consultant Joe Shumate -- and watched like a thriller movie. Part of the reason will be Arnold Schwarzenegger, who, his campaign advisers believe, will be running -- or starring, to put it in Hollywood idiom, in a political sequel to his "Total Recall."

[Elle Bee]

		July 25, 2003

REVIEW & OUTLOOK

Governor Moonbeam

California Governor Gray Davis will now officially face a recall vote, but he's still in denial about the reason. The Democrat is blaming a "hostile takeover by the right" and "partisan mischief." Introspection is not his strong suit.

The world is supposed to believe that the 1.4 million voters -- 500,000 more than required -- who signed petitions were all manipulated by a few rowdy Republicans. And that his 26% approval rating has nothing to do with the energy crisis he helped create or the $12 billion surplus of five years ago that he's turned into today's $38 billion deficit. Voters also aren't supposed to care that in last year's campaign Mr. Davis misled them about both the magnitude of the state's fiscal problems and how he planned to raise taxes.

This is the same sort of buck-passing that got the Governor here in the first place. Far from a "coup," the recall is entirely constitutional, put in place in 1911 to remove "dishonest, incapable or unsatisfactory" public servants. Mr. Davis has earned this honor.

The election itself, slated for October 7, is bound to be messy. Voters will decide if Mr. Davis should go, and if so who should replace him. Potential candidates are still sorting themselves out, and the threshold for qualification is low. Which means a small number of voters could ultimately elect the next state governor. So be it. The fate of Gray Davis is a powerful lesson for unresponsive political elites in both parties.

	URL for this article: http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB105909324582940900,00.html

Updated July 25, 2003

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[dennisw]

To put it crudely, all the Mexicans are going to vote for Arnold. They love an action guy like him. So this kills the 'cRATS with the Hispanic vote. Matter of fact this is the reason why Arnold is the only GOP candidate who can win in such an overwhelmingly 'cRAT state

[familyop]

Yes, Arnold, the more-money-for-afterschool-programs dude.

But Michael Savage might run!

TOTAL RECALL
WorldNetDaily Exclusive
Michael Savage to run
for California governor?
Radio talk-show host, best-selling author
considering independent bid in October
--WND
http://www.worldnetdaily.com

And do the poll!
WND POLL
The Savage State
Tell us what you think of radio host as gubernatorial candidate
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/polls/

Get the word out before midnight, when the
poll ends!

...need to register for the poll, but it's only to
prevent double votes.

LOL! Yes!

[familyop]

Yes, Arnold, the more-money-for-afterschool-programs dude.

But Michael Savage might run!

TOTAL RECALL
WorldNetDaily Exclusive
Michael Savage to run
for California governor?
Radio talk-show host, best-selling author
considering independent bid in October
--WND
http://www.worldnetdaily.com

And do the poll!
WND POLL
The Savage State
Tell us what you think of radio host as gubernatorial candidate
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/polls/

Get the word out before midnight, when the
poll ends!

...need to register for the poll, but it's only to
prevent double votes.

LOL! Yes!

[familyop]

Yes, Arnold, the more-money-for-afterschool-programs dude.

But Michael Savage might run!

TOTAL RECALL
WorldNetDaily Exclusive
Michael Savage to run
for California governor?
Radio talk-show host, best-selling author
considering independent bid in October
--WND
http://www.worldnetdaily.com

And do the poll!
WND POLL
The Savage State
Tell us what you think of radio host as gubernatorial candidate
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/polls/

Get the word out before midnight, when the
poll ends!

...need to register for the poll, but it's only to
prevent double votes.

LOL! Yes!

[familyop]

Yes, Arnold, the more-money-for-afterschool-programs dude.

But Michael Savage might run!

TOTAL RECALL
WorldNetDaily Exclusive
Michael Savage to run
for California governor?
Radio talk-show host, best-selling author
considering independent bid in October
--WND
http://www.worldnetdaily.com

And do the poll!
WND POLL
The Savage State
Tell us what you think of radio host as gubernatorial candidate
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/polls/

Get the word out before midnight, when the
poll ends!

...need to register for the poll, but it's only to
prevent double votes.

LOL! Yes!

[Elle Bee]

And the rest of the GOP field is begining to look like another version of the dem's presidential cluster _ _ _ K

The fate of Gray Davis is a powerful lesson for unresponsive political elites in both parties.

... but I doubt they will notice

.

[familyop]

...sorry. My web browser malfunctioned, and I don't know
how to delete the duplicates.

[Elle Bee]

Yes, Arnold, the more-money-for-afterschool-programs dude.

I think that's too shallow a read on the proposal

I believe it is keyed to revenue increase ... it's not an entitlement with a life of it's own

.

[Caipirabob]

Does anyone have an confirmed details on Arnold's political leanings? I heard he was a SOCIAL Conservative, which is a code word for "Democrat who won't say he's a Democrat".

Do people think because he kills lots of people in his movies that he'll make a good conservative?

Anyone have any facts they can share on this man's thoughts on conservative policies? So far all I've seen convinces me that he's not the choice people need in CA.

I'll reread the above posts, but from what LITTLE I've heard, Arnold is NOT the man for the job.

[patriciaruth]

The State of California is a total mess. We are all going to share in the suffering before this is turned around.

But I finally decided to sign a recall petition because Arnold said some terrific funny things chiding Democrats. A spoonful of sugar to make the medicine go down. As long as we are going to suffer through this correction of our course, we might as well be entertained and have someone open the eyes of voters to the failings of Democrats and the good points of Republicans.

Arnold is a Republican. He is not a conservative as defined by Jim Robinson. But he can be a bridge to a more informed electorate, and a better run State.

I hope he is going to run.

[fieldmarshaldj]

Ah-nold is a textbook leftist RINO, Tricky Dick Riordan with muscles and an uncle-in-law named Ted Kennedy. He is a menace to the Republican Party.

Tom McClintock is the ONLY choice for Governor.

[fieldmarshaldj]

If you want a liberal Governor, then vote "no" on the recall. No more damned RINO liberal trojan horse 'Rats.

[goldstategop]

Both Rush Limbaugh and the Los Angeles Times Steve Lopez both think Arnold won't run. Call it a gut feeling. But since the liberal Lopez followed up, it looks like another example of cutting edge social evolution known as the Limbaugh Syndrome Echo at work here!

[Miss Marple]

Limbaugh didn't think Hillary would run, either.

[goldstategop]

True. Even a radio talk show host can be wrong.

[fieldmarshaldj]

I would think one reason why he wouldn't is the pay cut he'd have to take. Does anyone around here recall how dreadful his buddy "The Body" did as Minnesota Governor ? At least Ventura had the common courtesy to run 3rd party so he wouldn't leave the GOP saddled with his legacy (and as a bonus, we picked up his job when he quit). If Ah-nold ran 3rd party, I wouldn't be nearly as opposed to his candidacy (mind you, I would still oppose his being Governor).

[Miss Marple]

Do you honestly think people run for office for the pay? Do you think that even enters into the calculation, when you have millions of dollars in the bank?

One advantage to Arnold running (and I am trying to think of this dispassionately, as I am not a Californian) is that his election would give Republicans time to get their act together out there. If he can pull some Hispanics into the party and browbeat the Assembly into a reasonable budget, it would help the state's Republicans get a toe-hold and develop a wider base.

No, he isn't conservative, but the issues in which he is NOT conservative are also issues in which he has zero influence, since they are all addressed by federal legislation or court decisions.

Plus, he would get media coverage and he wouldn't have to get name recognition.

[fieldmarshaldj]

"Do you honestly think people run for office for the pay? Do you think that even enters into the calculation, when you have millions of dollars in the bank?"

Actually, for some, yes. Ever wonder why more Hollyweird types refuse to run for office ? They can't afford the loss of income which would seriously crimp their style. If Ah-nold doesn't run (and we're getting conflicting info), one reason he'd decline is over the salary issue. He may have millions in the bank, but most of these people need to have those millions keep coming. Win office and that stops.

"One advantage to Arnold running (and I am trying to think of this dispassionately, as I am not a Californian) is that his election would give Republicans time to get their act together out there. If he can pull some Hispanics into the party and browbeat the Assembly into a reasonable budget, it would help the state's Republicans get a toe-hold and develop a wider base."

And it's a reasonable conclusion, but it won't work. Why ? Because RINO Governors prove devastating and divisive to the primary and to the base. I just had 8 years of a RINO Governor and his parting gift to us was the loss of a Congressional seat and a brand new 'Rat Governor and a seriously fractured base. No RINO Governor in recent memory anywhere in the U.S. left their party in better shape leaving office then going in, and I can go over that state by state. Since you're in Indiana, and it's been almost 20 years since a Republican was last elected there (and hopefully we'll get in Mitch Daniels), do you think someone with the voting record of Baron Hill or Julia Carson running as a Republican would do much for the state GOP ? Even Frank O'Bannon would be better than Ah-nold.

"No, he isn't conservative, but the issues in which he is NOT conservative are also issues in which he has zero influence, since they are all addressed by federal legislation or court decisions."

Some, meaning he couldn't sign into a law an outright ban on abortion, but as for other issues, he could conceivably worsen the situation on other issues that are clearly wrong-headed and anathema to the party. I submit he is not a fiscal conservative in the least, which, at the moment, is an absolute necessity. We can't just elect an "R" for the sake of an "R", they have to stand for the principles we hold dear, otherwise they just enact the other party's agenda and destroy our integrity.

"Plus, he would get media coverage and he wouldn't have to get name recognition."

We could run a pig for Governor, dress it up real pretty and get tons of media coverage, but no matter how you slice it, it's still a pig. Tom McClintock is the only one who fits the bill.

[Miss Marple]

I think most Hollywood types don't run for office because it is actually hard work, they aren't guaranteed unlimited adulation, they have to deal with public criticism, and for most of them it is booooring.

I think Arnold is smarter than people think...if you will notice in the article it talks about his real estate holdings. Thus, I don't think that money is a prime motivator for him.

As I said, it is just my idle, uninvolved comment.

Indiana needs Mitch Daniels to be governor, and I wish McIntosh would drop out of the race. Instead I see he is going to start running ads now. He is not suitable for the governorship, as I consider him a poor administrator. He ran a poor campaign and had no way to connect to the swing voter.

I am certain he will lose in the primary, but I don't like to see the party go through any divisiveness, especially because the Rat running will no doubt be that poisonous little dweeb Joe Andrew, last seen heading the DNC during the Gore campaign. UGH.

[TenthAmendmentChampion]

I just had 8 years of a RINO Governor and his parting gift to us was the loss of a Congressional seat and a brand new 'Rat Governor and a seriously fractured base.

Similar story in Arizona. That said, the short timeframe of this election and Davis's unscrupulous tactics and his machine's political skills have me leaning to Arnold, too.

[BillyBoy]

>> No, he isn't conservative, but the issues in which he is NOT conservative are also issues in which he has zero influence

Since Ah-nuld Schwarzekennedy is liberal across-the-board (including "fiscal" policies), essentially you're saying he wouldn't have influence over ANYTHING.

[PatrioticAmerican]

Aid: "Sir, the liberals won't cooperate!"

Aahhhnold: "Bring me a phone book."

[PatrioticAmerican]

Aid: "Sir, the liberals won't cooperate!"

Aahhhnold: "Bring me a phone book."

[dead]

"I'll be back."

("I'll be back in another movie as soon as I milk all this free publicity for "T3" by pretending to run for governor.")

[Austin Willard Wright]

If Arnold endorsed a tax increase, he would get it in a heartbeat. Davis wouldn't. I haven't seen any reason to doubt that Arnold will raise taxes....hence, the "gridlock" status quo is preferable.

[BillyBoy]

>> I just had 8 years of a RINO Governor and his parting gift to us was the loss of a Congressional seat and a brand new 'Rat Governor and a seriously fractured base.
Similar story in Arizona. That said, the short timeframe of this election and Davis's unscrupulous tactics and his machine's political skills have me leaning to Arnold, too. <<

Isn't it amazing that all of from states with RINO governors had the same experience? Hell, even the same thing happens internationally (the PRI would be dead in Mexico today if not for the "conservative" President governing to the LEFT of them) Not that Kalifornians will pay attention. We're being "unreasonable" by telling them that RINO governors accomlish nothing. Oh well.

In 1998, our RINO governor pledged he would NOT raise taxes under ANY circumstance, that he believed in keeping a "tight lid" on spending, and "living within our means" ("fiscal conservative", right?) and that he was "personally" pro-life ("except in cases of rape or incest") even though he didn't like talking about it in public and picked an PROUD pro-abortion running mate.

Here's what Gov. George Ryan (R) got us in Illinois during his reign:

*State "fees" (alcahol taxes, driver's licenses) tripled
* Taxpayer funded abortion (he vetoed the bill that would have ended it)
*Lotsa fun new gun laws
*Health insurance coverage for those nice gay "partnerships"
*Taxpayer funded trip to Cuba so George could heap praise on Fidel Castro
* Free goodies for illegal alien drivers (including one who ran over some kids in Wisconsin because he couldn't read road signs in English) * A RAT-legislature gobbling up pork and fawning about how much he had "grown" in office
* All our murderers on death row getting blanket amnesty from our "compassionate Republican" governor * Plenty of nice endorsements for "moderate" Democrats who would beat those evil "hard right" Republicans who DARE critize King George
* A RAT sweep in 2002 thanks to blaming all the higher taxes on "corrupt Republican rule" (nevermind the fact that the 'RAT-controlled legislature passed George's "temporary fee increases" in the first place)
* A laughable 'RAT governor in 2002 ("Roderick Blagojevich, hair-sprayed galore Chicago congresscritter) who wouldn't have been elected dogcatcher, except he got to blame everything on George and run as the candidate of "change" (since then, he's continued everyone one of George's liberal programs)

Electing RINOs is really helpful, isn't it?

[kevao]

You can't delete the duplicates.

You can't delete the duplicates.

You can't delete the duplicates.

Go Savage!!!

Go Savage!!!

Go Savage!!!

[Austin Willard Wright]

Exactly the same thing is happening in Alabama....with Pryor's daily and enthusiastic support and complicity!

[kevao]

all the Mexicans are going to vote for Arnold.

So I take it he is not in favor of closing the border? Any ideas of his stance on this?

[CyberCowboy777]

If Arnold runs

Arnold wins.

The only question is how the conservative base response and behaves.

They can try to influence and keep hold of the 'other' elected Republicans or

they can piss and moan to the point the Arnold writes them off and panders even further left.

He will face a stronger democrat in two years - will he try for Conservative base votes or will he have written them off?

Also - he has the ability to increase voter turn out and shape certain voters, voter that will vote party line on most occasions from then on. Register them Republican and run Conservatives.

[RoughDobermann]

Mr. Schwarzenegger will also have to weather personal attacks. Back in 1988 he told Playboy he wouldn't enter politics because "you have to clean up your act." Jamie Lee Curtis, his co-star in "True Lies," says he would be "a complete natural in politics, although he'd have to curb his ribald and wicked sense of humor." But the attacks will go beyond any Hollywood hijinks. "We'll have the tabloids go after him," a top Democratic strategist confided to the LA Weekly, though a negative profile touted by the Davis campaign was largely discredited. A movie security guard told me the actor sometimes belittles people and can be overbearing in his demands for star treatment. "The only thing that makes me nervous is when I don't get my own way," he has admitted.

Arnold's sense of humor and propensity for playing mind games were well displayed in Pumpin' Iron

.

[fieldmarshaldj]

"If Arnold runs"

"Arnold wins."

California and the GOP loses.

[fieldmarshaldj]

"I think most Hollywood types don't run for office because it is actually hard work, they aren't guaranteed unlimited adulation, they have to deal with public criticism, and for most of them it is booooring."

I think more of the leftist 'Rat types ought to run, that way they get a taste of the medicine they give out.

"I think Arnold is smarter than people think...if you will notice in the article it talks about his real estate holdings. Thus, I don't think that money is a prime motivator for him."

It depends on one's definition of smart. Just because he has real estate ownings doesn't change the fact he's still a down-the-line liberal. I'm sure his Kennedy family in-laws own tons of real estate.

"Indiana needs Mitch Daniels to be governor, and I wish McIntosh would drop out of the race. Instead I see he is going to start running ads now. He is not suitable for the governorship, as I consider him a poor administrator. He ran a poor campaign and had no way to connect to the swing voter."

I agree that McIntosh should probably drop out. Daniels might either offer him or Murray Clark (Clark was the one I switched to, I believe after you mentioned him to me many months ago) the number #2 slot. McIntosh I think is still a good guy, but he had a tough race in '00 as it was. At the time, no one could come up with a truly compelling reason to toss O'Bannon (though it's clear they could now if he was eligible for a 3rd term).

"I am certain he will lose in the primary, but I don't like to see the party go through any divisiveness, especially because the Rat running will no doubt be that poisonous little dweeb Joe Andrew, last seen heading the DNC during the Gore campaign. UGH."

My one concern about Daniels initially was that he was too much an "inside-the-beltway" type of guy (since I believe he has never held office before). One big thing, as with our shared neighbor, Kentucky, is the one-party fatigue has set in. Since no Republican would've been elected in 20 years in IN, the people probably think it's time for a change. Unless Daniels proves a totally inept campaigner, I think he'll do OK against Andrew.

[VOA]

He earned an MBA from the University of Wisconsin

maybe not the top-level of MBA programs...but I never had heard that Arnold
had any sort of degree at all.
(maybe it's one of those "executive" MBA programs...still impressive)

[VOA]

...his work with inner-city youths gives him an appeal to minorities that Mr. Reagan
didn't have. "Arnold's popularity among Hispanics is off the charts,"
says one pollster.

A few years ago, I saw a TV news segment with Arnold (in a St. Nick suit sans beard
and cap, IIRC) handing out Christmas presents to kids in East Los Angeles.

I don't know who was getting more of charge out it, the kids or Arnold.

Arnold might not pass the conservative litmus tests for Texas or fly-over country...
but I think he probably has more than enough heart and brain to do the job.

It would be a hoot to see him pull more votes from Hispanic than Cruz Busatmonte
(if the Lt. Gov. runs).

[CyberCowboy777]

The GOP only loses if the put up RINO assembly men and senators.

Arnold can be controlled by a savvy GOP leader and the voter registration can be turned into a windfall for the Conservatives.

[Mike-o-Matic]

About Davis' recall, Arnold was recently overheard as saying...

"Consider that a divorce."

[fieldmarshaldj]

I would agree if I thought that correct, but the end results of RINO Governors prove that to not be the case. They never improve the state of the GOP - never - and are worse than a nuclear bomb drop on Conservatism and Conservative candidates within the party. State Sen. Tom McClintock is the anti-Ah-nold, a solid Conservative with a solid grasp of the issues who has been fighting in the trenches against the Davis-Marxist 'Rat "Axis of Evil", and he was the highest vote getter in the election in November of any of the GOP statewide candidates.

[Miss Marple]

Murray Clark has not only dropped out, but he took the job as Mitch Daniels' campaign manager. He said he would not accept the lt. gov. spot on the ticket.

That leaves Daniels, McIntosh, the mayor of Petersburg, and someone else who is a "conservative activist." There was another state senator running, but he also dropped out and threw his support to Daniels.

I believe that the mayor of Petersburg will be offered the lt. gov. spot (which would help in southern Indiana) and Daniels will win.

McIntosh is a very nice man, and is a true conservative. He needs to be in legislative-type work, for which he is more suitable. I wonder why he isn't running for the Senate?

[Miss Marple]

I just had a horrible thought. If Andrew is nominated, do you think Gore will campaign for him? The horror, the horror!

[fieldmarshaldj]

"Murray Clark has not only dropped out, but he took the job as Mitch Daniels' campaign manager. He said he would not accept the lt. gov. spot on the ticket."

That's too bad he won't.

"That leaves Daniels, McIntosh, the mayor of Petersburg, and someone else who is a "conservative activist." There was another state senator running, but he also dropped out and threw his support to Daniels. I believe that the mayor of Petersburg will be offered the lt. gov. spot (which would help in southern Indiana) and Daniels will win."

Is Petersburg in Baron Hill's district ? If it is, perhaps the guy is a future candidate for his seat. Hill is way too liberal for that seat.

"McIntosh is a very nice man, and is a true conservative. He needs to be in legislative-type work, for which he is more suitable. I wonder why he isn't running for the Senate?"

You're right, he should. I think this assumption that Bayh is some unbeatable juggernaut may be misplaced. Indiana is still a Republican state, if only we'd learn to act like winners.

"I just had a horrible thought. If Andrew is nominated, do you think Gore will campaign for him? The horror, the horror!"

Pray for it. If that guy so badly wants to lose, he should not only bring in my idiot ex-Senator, but both Clintons as well. So should Mr. Bayh.

[Miss Marple]

Actually, this should be funny, as Bayh is up in 2004 as well.

Bayh won't want any of them in the state, and Andrew will. Much entertainment should ensue.

[fieldmarshaldj]

Indeed. Maybe somebody could start a "whispering campaign" to undermine Bayh with his 'Rat base by saying "he's too good" to have Clinton 'n Gore campaign for him. The 'Rats all believe we engage in dirty tricks, which we really don't, but maybe we should... The "dirty" little secret is that when we really play hardball, we win. That's how we won the GA Senate seat last November despite clearly being behind. :-)

[pogo101]

Hasta la vista, GIRLY MAN! :)

[patriciaruth]

Vote for whomever you please and I shall do the same. Just be sure to vote yes on the recall and you can vote for Angeline for all I care.

I wasn't for this recall up until it seemed inevitable. I thought it was better that Davis take the heat when the chickens came home to roost, which they haven't yet as we don't have a budget yet.

I'm not a "conservative", I'm an American, and currently a Republican. I also know the insanity of my state, and don't intend to waste my vote on a nonstarter. Simon, and conservatives, had their chance in 2002, and you all blew it. I hope the smiling manikin doesn't try to screw it up again by running again, but then he isn't that inclined to look at the big picture.

[fieldmarshaldj]

"I'm not a "conservative", I'm an American, and currently a Republican."

You can't separate any of those three. As soon as the GOP rejects Conservatism, it dies. It's that simple. I'd be more than happy to give you examples of that.

"I also know the insanity of my state, and don't intend to waste my vote on a nonstarter."

Well, then I'm happy to hear you won't be voting for Ah-nold or Zsa Zsa.

"Simon, and conservatives, had their chance in 2002, and you all blew it."

Keep believing that, because you're wrong. You want to make this a referendum on conservative ideals being a loser, and you'll lose. It's RINO liberalism that is the clear loser, and a string of candidates throughout the '90s from John Seymour to Bruce McPherson in the last election that makes that perfectly clear. Simon lost because #1 he ran a piss-poor fall campaign, and #2 because he was sabotaged by RINOs (Gerry Parsky, Brooks Firestone, and Gerry Parsky, and did I mention Gerry Parsky ?), the hard-left CA media and the Davis minions. Even if he had run a spectacular campaign, as long as we have the Parsky creeps preferring Davis (and, yes, he DID prefer Davis rather than allow a REAL Republican win, and we've got cretins like that in almost every state, but most of them are rightly shown the door rather than given the keys to the house), it's still going to be nearly impossible to overcome in a general election. I'm not supporting Simon this time around, since I believe Tom McClintock to be the far superior candidate. McClintock, running an unapologetic conservative campaign, did better than ANY other Republican candidate last November, and he deserves a clear shot at the top job. Why ? Because he's been fighting to keep that sinking perverted mess known as California from becoming that much more so. If it wasn't for people like him, your taxes, your "fees" and your freedom would evaporate faster than spilled water in Death Valley. I suggest before you take to bashing conservatives as "losers" that you remember what they stand for and contrast that with what the RINOs want. RINOs do everything the Democrat party wants, they just do it with a phony "R" after their names. I've had enough of them to last a lifetime.

[pogo101]

"If Arnold runs" "Arnold wins." California and the GOP loses.

Are we going to have one of these silly arguments again? Look, it's simple: I and a lot of very conservative Republicans favor Arnold, notwithstanding his selection of liberal stances, because we believe that he can win AND that a more conservative candidate, like McClintock, cannot. If we believed McClintock could win if vigorously supported, we'd vigorously support him. If you stop insinuating that we are traitors, then we'll try to stop insinuating that you are throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[fieldmarshaldj]

"Are we going to have one of these silly arguments again?"

Well, it looks like we are. I would think that on a "Conservative" forum, some would "get it" by now.

"Look, it's simple: I and a lot of very conservative Republicans favor Arnold, notwithstanding his selection of liberal stances, because we believe that he can win AND that a more conservative candidate, like McClintock, cannot."

Then I submit that you and that "lot of very conservative Republicans" are neither conservative nor particularly Republican. What part of "Ah-nold's winning brings us NOTHING" do you guys continue to fail to comprehend ? Bill Clinton himself could probably win the Governorship of California, as he did handily carry the state twice. Since we're so "desperate" to win with a letter of the alphabet more pleasing-sounding to the ears, regardless of ANY principles, why don't we convince him to run as a Republican ? You'll get EXACTLY the same in the end.

"If we believed McClintock could win if vigorously supported, we'd vigorously support him."

And I, and others on here have told you guys repeatedly why the man is qualified to run, what his principles are, about his outstanding (in the face of being overwhelmingly outspent) run last November on unapologetic "Conservative" principles, and you keep clinging to this misguided (and repeatedly proven-wrong) claim that only a RINO can win California. With all due respect, sir, if that was the case, then show me all of those RINOs we've run over the past 11 years occupying the Senate seats, the statewide offices, and on and on. You'll note there are exactly none.

"If you stop insinuating that we are traitors, then we'll try to stop insinuating that you are throwing the baby out with the bathwater."

We'll stop with our "insinuations" when you stop with this advocating of non-Republican candidates that do nothing for conservatism, do nothing for the party, and do nothing for the state with which they get elected from. RINOs will always be a cancer on the party, and until they decide to either get with the program and learn what it means to be a real Republican instead of undermining it and seeking to enact the 'Rat party agenda or doing us all a favor and switching to the 'Rats, these "silly arguments" will continue for the forseeable future.

I'll add this, BTW, if you are so desperate to run Ah-nold, then have him run (as his good buddy Ventura did in Minnesota) as an Independent. That way when he proves as inept and destructive as every other liberal Governor, assuming he is elected, he doesn't take the Republican Party down with him. At least Ventura didn't try to be disingenuous and run as a Republican, since if he had, we'd have a 'Rat Governor there, a few more 'Rat Congressmen, a 'Rat legislature, and Sen. Wally Mondale today. Unless you consider that a positive...

[onyx]

If Arnold's in, then Gray's out, and Willie Brown won't win. Thank God, for that.

If Arnold is in, the realistic choices will be Arnold or Willie Brown, and WB will win, if GOP voters splinter, and we likely will.

Such a shame to waste this "golden" opportunity: the last chance for the "golden state" to survive.

Kalifornia bonds are now only one level above junk bonds.