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Charge: Father, Daughter Married (Is it Okay With Sandra Day O'Connor?)
Mobile Register ^ | 07/25/03 | KAREN TOLKKINEN

Posted on 07/25/2003 10:39:04 AM PDT by nickcarraway

Authorities accuse couple of illegal incestuous union

A Mobile County grand jury has said that a Theodore husband and wife may really be father and daughter and ought to be tried for incest.

Carrol Eugene Ferdinandsen, 53, and Alice Faye Ferdinandsen, 30, were arrested Thursday and charged with incest and fraud in connection with their May 2 marriage in a civil ceremony in Mobile County. They were indicted in June.

According to Mobile County court records, Alice was the third child of Carrol and Shirley Faye Ferdinandsen, and her mother filed for divorce when Alice was only 4 months old. Her mother said Thursday that she later met and married Charles Stewart, who Alice listed as her father on her marriage license application.

Up to that point, Alice had used "Ferdinandsen" as her last name, according to court records.

Incestuous marriages are forbidden in all states, in part due to fears about genetic mutation and child abuse. They still occur, though rarely, according to a survey of news articles from around the country.

The Ferdinandsens could not be reached for comment Thursday. They were still being held in the Mobile County Metro Jail, with bond set at $8,500 for each, officials said.

Family members said they had heard about the marriage and disapproved of the relationship.

"My father is completely convinced that she's not his daughter, no blood relation at all," David Ferdinandsen, who said he is Carrol's son and Alice's older brother. He's tried to discourage his father from the relationship, he said, but his father won't listen.

Alice's mother, whose last name is now Crayne, said Carrol is definitely Alice's father. She didn't meet Charles Stewart until Alice was 3 or 4 years old, she said.

"I told her she was stupid for marrying her own daddy," Shirley Crayne said. "I told him he was crazy and stupid. I told her I didn't ever want to hear from her again."

Crayne started crying during an interview Thursday. It hurts so bad, she said, because Alice is her youngest child and she worked hard taking care of the children when they were young.

After the divorce, the couple's three children were placed in foster care, David Ferdinandsen said. They were there for five years, he said. They went to live with their mother, and later moved in with their father, he said.

Crayne said Alice sometimes called Carrol "Daddy" and sometimes just "Carrol."

Crayne said she would scold her daughter when she used her father's first name.

During the 1980s, Carrol and Alice went to Illinois, staying for months, David Ferdinandsen said. When they returned, Alice went back to school, he said.

According to Mobile County Circuit Court records, Carrol pleaded guilty to second-degree rape in 1989. The records do not identify the victim and prosecutors could not be reached for comment Thursday. He spent a year in jail.

Alice moved to Texas, where she got a boyfriend and a job at a hamburger stand, her mother said. But in the mid-1990s, Carrol came looking for her and she ended up moving back with him to Theodore, according to her mother and brother. They've been together ever since, relatives said.

Crayne said she never heard that Carrol claimed that Alice wasn't his daughter until just a few years ago. Now Alice believes it, too, she said.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Alabama; US: Arkansas
KEYWORDS: constitution; incest; lawrencevtexas; mobilehome; mobility; oconnor; privacy; supremecourt
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1 posted on 07/25/2003 10:39:05 AM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway
Oh, come on. I mean, the right to privacy and all. <\sarcasm>
2 posted on 07/25/2003 10:40:40 AM PDT by Recovering_Democrat (I'm so glad to no longer be associated with the Party of Dependence on Government!)
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To: nickcarraway
sickening... I hate the death of virtue (not the book... the reality)
3 posted on 07/25/2003 10:41:46 AM PDT by bedolido (please let my post be on an even number... small even/odd phobia here)
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To: Recovering_Democrat
This should be a good test case if someon wants to pick it up.
4 posted on 07/25/2003 10:42:00 AM PDT by keithtoo (Tax Cuts - A robber who doesn't steal from you isn't GIVING you a VCR!!)
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To: nickcarraway
Buggery is legal, so what's the problem? I'm sure it's somewhere there in the constitution along with abortion, penumbra, privacy, diversity, and sodomy. The door's open, pal.
5 posted on 07/25/2003 10:43:00 AM PDT by laweeks
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To: nickcarraway
There ought to be some way to work in an Auburn joke here.
6 posted on 07/25/2003 10:43:14 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: nickcarraway
Alabama, huh? I'm shocked. Shocked, I am.
7 posted on 07/25/2003 10:43:19 AM PDT by Hank Rearden (Dick Gephardt. Before he dicks you.)
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To: nickcarraway
Today, repulsive degeneracy.

Tomorrow, a constitutionally protected right.

8 posted on 07/25/2003 10:43:44 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: nickcarraway
"I told her she was stupid for marrying her own daddy,"

Well that's the understatement of the DECADE!!

9 posted on 07/25/2003 10:44:45 AM PDT by Hillary's Lovely Legs (Your request is not unlike your lower intestine. Stinky and full of danger.)
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To: nickcarraway
Actually this one might not make it to the supreme court; not sure I want it to. A real blood-blood incest case would be better. Incest laws are meant to discourage weakening of the gene pool and deforming babies.

Since they are just legally father/daughter then this doesn't seem to meet those objections. Its still disgusting though given the emotional manipulation that most likely took place.

10 posted on 07/25/2003 10:44:49 AM PDT by Naspino
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To: wideawake
Today, repulsive degeneracy. Tomorrow, a constitutionally protected right.

So well said... that should be your tag-line.

11 posted on 07/25/2003 10:45:22 AM PDT by bedolido (please let my post be on an even number... small even/odd phobia here)
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To: nickcarraway
And further down the slippery slope we slide.

12 posted on 07/25/2003 10:45:30 AM PDT by Loyalist (The scalpel of the abortionist is the sword of Islam.)
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To: nickcarraway
Many, many years ago, when I was twenty three,
I got married to a widow who was pretty as could be
This widow had a grown- up daughter
Who had beautiful hair of red.
My father fell in love with her,
and soon the two were wed
This made my dad my son-in-law
and changed my very life.
My daughter was my mother
for she was my father's wife.
To complicate matters worse,
although it brought me joy,
I soon became the father
of a bouncing baby boy.
My little baby then became
a brother-in-law to dad.
And so became my uncle,
though it made me very sad.
For if he was my uncle, then
that also made him brother
To the widow's grown-up daughter
Who, of course, was my step-mother.
Father's wife then had a son,
who kept them on the run.
And he became my grandson,
for he was my daughter's son.
My wife is now my mother's mother
and it makes me all too blue,
Because, although, she is my wife,
she's my grandmother too.
If my wife is my grandmother,
Then I am her grandchild.
And, every time I try to think of it,
It simply drives me wild.
For, now I have become the strangest
case you ever saw.
As the husband of my grandmother,
I am also my own grandpa!
13 posted on 07/25/2003 10:46:52 AM PDT by JennysCool
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To: nickcarraway
Looks like Santorum was right.

I'd love to hear how the Supremes can uphold this (anti-incest)law in light of the reasoning in Lawrence v. Texas.

14 posted on 07/25/2003 10:48:01 AM PDT by NeoCaveman (This tagline has been deleted by the Moderators)
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To: nickcarraway
There was a book a while back (The Kiss?) The author wrote about her own willing incestous relationship with her father.

I cant even begin to imagine how messed up you have to be to marry your own father...yuck.
15 posted on 07/25/2003 10:48:03 AM PDT by FeliciaCat
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To: nickcarraway
A Theodore husband and wife may really be father and daughter…Alice sometimes called Carrol "Daddy" and sometimes just "Carrol."

Well, we’ve got Carrol and Alice from Ted.

Where's Bob?

16 posted on 07/25/2003 10:48:13 AM PDT by dead
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To: Naspino
I know the article was a little confusing but...

According to Mobile County court records, Alice was the third child of Carrol and Shirley Faye Ferdinandsen, and her mother filed for divorce when Alice was only 4 months old.

She IS his biological daughter.

17 posted on 07/25/2003 10:48:39 AM PDT by ravingnutter
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
I know a guy (Jewish from Noo Joisey - stereotype buster!) who's married to his first cousin. He loves to introduce her as "my wife, my cousin".

Needless to say, he's a tad bit on the kooky side.

18 posted on 07/25/2003 10:49:01 AM PDT by ErnBatavia (Bumperootus!)
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To: nickcarraway
"I told her she was stupid for marrying her own daddy," Shirley Crayne said. "I told him he was crazy and stupid. I told her I didn't ever want to hear from her again."

Now, just look what you've done, Gary. ROFL.

;-)

19 posted on 07/25/2003 10:49:23 AM PDT by Scenic Sounds (Summertime!)
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To: Hank Rearden
Ala-BAMA!


20 posted on 07/25/2003 10:49:34 AM PDT by mattdono
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To: Naspino
They are not just legally father and daughter. She is his biological daughter.
21 posted on 07/25/2003 10:49:40 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: ErnBatavia
I think marrying your first cousin is legal everywhere. I could be wrong though.
22 posted on 07/25/2003 10:50:13 AM PDT by dead
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To: nickcarraway
"I told her she was stupid for marrying her own daddy," Shirley Crayne said.

Only in Alabama could you read a line like that...

23 posted on 07/25/2003 10:50:15 AM PDT by Im Your Huckleberry
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To: gcruse
"I told her she was stupid for marrying her own daddy," Shirley Crayne said. "I told him he was crazy and stupid. I told her I didn't ever want to hear from her again."

Now, just look what you've done, Gary. ROFL.

;-)


24 posted on 07/25/2003 10:50:32 AM PDT by Scenic Sounds (Summertime!)
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To: keithtoo
You betcha.

The ruling was regarding the rights of adults to do what they wish in privacy. Now, whether the marriage, father/daughter is not considered private, but in the public sphere is another thing entirely. However, if the justices rule on civil marriage for homosexuals, the whole adult incest wall could come down to tradition not law.
25 posted on 07/25/2003 10:50:41 AM PDT by OpusatFR (Using pretentious arcane words to buttress your argument means you don't have one)
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To: ErnBatavia
FDR was married to his first cousin. Rudolph Giuliani first marriage was to his second cousin.
26 posted on 07/25/2003 10:50:43 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: nickcarraway
I think the criminal defense atty. hired or assigned to defend this case would have the obligation to raise a constitutional defense to his client's prosecution. This is sad, but it is the strange fruit of the Lawrence v. Texas ruling.
(Yes, I meant to say "strange fruit." The choice of words was no accident.) :-)
27 posted on 07/25/2003 10:52:04 AM PDT by bourbon
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To: Flurry
I would have expected this in Walker or Lowndes counties, not Mobile.
28 posted on 07/25/2003 10:52:06 AM PDT by CholeraJoe (White Devils for Sharpton. We're baaaaad. We're Nationwide)
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To: ravingnutter
Ah -- I got hung up on the line "She didn't meet Charles Stewart until Alice was 3 or 4 years old, she said". I guess I didn't understand the point of why Charles Stewart was necessary to the article.
29 posted on 07/25/2003 10:52:10 AM PDT by Naspino
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To: dead

30 posted on 07/25/2003 10:52:25 AM PDT by NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
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To: nickcarraway
Who are we to judge?
31 posted on 07/25/2003 10:52:38 AM PDT by johnb838 (A sucking chest wound is natures way of telling you to slow down.)
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To: JennysCool
if an Arkansas couple get a divorce, are they still brother and sister ?
32 posted on 07/25/2003 10:54:10 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: wideawake
FDR was married to Theodore Roosevelt's cousin, not his own. There are a lot of Roosevelts (and Hoods, too, the other name this much married, much interbred family travels under).
33 posted on 07/25/2003 10:54:11 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: wideawake
Not quite right.

Question: How was ER related to FDR?
Answer: Eleanor and Franklin were fifth cousins once removed. They are both descended from Claes Martenszen van Rosenvelt who arrived in New Amsterdam (Manhattan) from Holland in the 1640s. His two grandsons Johannes and Jacobus began the Oyster Bay and Hyde Park branches of the Roosevelt family. ER descended from the Johannes branch and FDR descended of the Jacobus branch.

34 posted on 07/25/2003 10:54:27 AM PDT by NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
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To: dead
I think marrying your first cousin is legal everywhere.

You can marry a first cousin in Wisconsin, but there are restrictions.

765.03 Who shall not marry; divorced persons. 
765.03(1)       pdf icon
(1) No marriage shall be contracted while either of the parties has a husband or wife living, nor between persons who are nearer of kin than 2nd cousins except that marriage may be contracted between first cousins where the  female has attained the age of 55 years or where either party, at the time of application for a marriage license, submits an affidavit signed by a physician stating that either party is permanently sterile.  Relationship under this section shall be computed by the rule of the civil law, whether the parties to the marriage are of the half or of the whole blood.  A marriage may not be contracted if either party has such want of understanding as renders him or her incapable of assenting to marriage.
 

35 posted on 07/25/2003 10:54:59 AM PDT by Catspaw
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To: ErnBatavia
First cousins are borderline ok to marry. I'm not sure if all states ban them or not. Second cousins it's perfectly all right, I'm pretty sure. Still a bit distasteful. Inbreeding, even when it doesn't cause overt birth defects, results in weaker, less intelligent, less attractive children. Outbreeding results in the opposite.
36 posted on 07/25/2003 10:55:38 AM PDT by johnb838 (A sucking chest wound is natures way of telling you to slow down.)
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To: Naspino
I guess I didn't understand the point of why Charles Stewart was necessary to the article

Maybe she's seeing him on the side. Actually, if she married Charles, she could become her mother's mother, and, hence, her own grandmother.

37 posted on 07/25/2003 10:55:52 AM PDT by johniegrad
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To: Naspino
No she married here real father. The mother or the daughter put the step-father as the father on her birth certificate.
38 posted on 07/25/2003 10:55:55 AM PDT by neb52
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To: wideawake
I am compelled to rule that because abortion is legal; it provides a legal means of rectifying the objectionable side-effects of incest. In the second point the right to sexual privacy has been establish by this court on several occassions. Therefore it is the ruling of this court that the legislative law criminalizing incest is unconstitutional.

-- Sandra Day O'Connor -- 2004

39 posted on 07/25/2003 10:56:21 AM PDT by Naspino
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To: nickcarraway
They should form a club with Woody and Soon-yi.
40 posted on 07/25/2003 10:56:44 AM PDT by ellery
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To: nickcarraway
Well ... the sodomy ... it happens.
Well ... the incest ... it happens.
Well ... the bigamy ... it happens.

But don't worry -- nobody's EVER going to try to marry their dog! Trust me!

41 posted on 07/25/2003 10:56:47 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (France delenda est)
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To: NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
My mistake.
42 posted on 07/25/2003 10:58:06 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: ClearCase_guy
I'm waiting for someone to marry a 12 year old and use it for a test case. After all, who are we to judge?
43 posted on 07/25/2003 10:58:13 AM PDT by johnb838 (A sucking chest wound is natures way of telling you to slow down.)
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To: dead
No, I don't think that's true. Second cousins maybe.
44 posted on 07/25/2003 10:58:32 AM PDT by tru_degenerate ('I have not always been right, but I have always been sincere.' - WEB Du Bois)
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To: Constitution Day
NC has dodged a bullet here. Now the eventual story from a trailer park in Clayton won't be the first.
45 posted on 07/25/2003 10:59:48 AM PDT by Phantom Lord (Distributor of Pain, Your Loss Becomes My Gain)
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To: johnb838
First cousins are borderline ok to marry. I'm not sure if all states ban them or not.

Yeah...this goofball said he checked out the legality of it all. He justified it by saying they'd never breed since "the factory is closed".

46 posted on 07/25/2003 11:00:39 AM PDT by ErnBatavia (Bumperootus!)
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To: johnb838
Still a bit distasteful. Inbreeding, even when it doesn't cause overt birth defects, results in weaker, less intelligent, less attractive children. Outbreeding results in the opposite.

I know many "outbreeding" people who are as ugly as they are dumb.

47 posted on 07/25/2003 11:00:44 AM PDT by Phantom Lord (Distributor of Pain, Your Loss Becomes My Gain)
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To: ClearCase_guy
Doing a google search for "man arrested sex" then insert animal of choice turned up quite a bit. I would post it but one in particular but its too disturbing. Needless to say it will one day be brought before the supreme court as soon as pedophelia is determined a privacy right.
48 posted on 07/25/2003 11:01:18 AM PDT by Naspino
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To: ClearCase_guy
But don't worry -- nobody's EVER going to try to marry their dog! Trust me!

That story will also come from Alabamastan. Headline will read... A man, his pickup, and his dog

49 posted on 07/25/2003 11:01:45 AM PDT by Phantom Lord (Distributor of Pain, Your Loss Becomes My Gain)
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To: tru_degenerate
Second cousins maybe.

So, you could start by marrying your second-counsin first. Then divorce them. Then you could marry your first-cousin. If anyone says "Hey, is that your first cousin?" well, you just say "Naw, this here's my second cousin."

50 posted on 07/25/2003 11:01:56 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (France delenda est)
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