Posted on 07/25/2003 7:16:17 PM PDT by HAL9000
Yes, I agree, which is mainly how our entire operation has migrated from UNIX/VMS to mostly M$ over the last 12 or so years. It's been much easier, and cheaper, to use their products is why. Except for the 'patching' requirement the internet has brought us, my job is easier than ever before.
Are you sure it is the clumsy interface that hasn't made it to desktops? Or is it the general lack of knowledge from end users?
That is certainly possible. But makes it a desirable feature nontheless.
And have you seen WalMarts latest rollout of Linux desktops?
I have heard about it, but they have not been available at any of the 5 WalMarts I have checked here in Florida. I was surprised to see a Sony PC there complete with flatscreen and DVD burner running Windows XP in one of the stores though, so maybe they are actually going more towards the "high" market instead of the low one.
Now if your info is correct (this is the FIRST time I've heard anything to this angle) about the stolen code...do you have any links I can research?
Yes, please check above when I responded to someone else asking for similar assistance.
What should I do as a host and designer? MS sites crunch code. They don't play nice with Netscape vs. AOL vs. IE. It doesn't interface.
Go with the number 1 standard and make it easy on your users, as well as yourself. Netscape is dead, just laid off most the whole programming staff I believe, and AOL just signed with M$ to put IE in their software instead I believe.
Yes, I agree, which is mainly how our entire operation has migrated from UNIX/VMS to mostly M$ over the last 12 or so years. It's been much easier, and cheaper, to use their products is why. Except for the 'patching' requirement the internet has brought us, my job is easier than ever before.
Are you sure it is the clumsy interface that hasn't made it to desktops? Or is it the general lack of knowledge from end users?
That is certainly possible. But makes it a desirable feature nontheless.
And have you seen WalMarts latest rollout of Linux desktops?
I have heard about it, but they have not been available at any of the 5 WalMarts I have checked here in Florida. I was surprised to see a Sony PC there complete with flatscreen and DVD burner running Windows XP in one of the stores though, so maybe they are actually going more towards the "high" market instead of the low one.
Now if your info is correct (this is the FIRST time I've heard anything to this angle) about the stolen code...do you have any links I can research?
Yes, please check above when I responded to someone else asking for similar assistance.
What should I do as a host and designer? MS sites crunch code. They don't play nice with Netscape vs. AOL vs. IE. It doesn't interface.
Go with the number 1 standard and make it easy on your users, as well as yourself. Netscape is dead, just laid off most the whole programming staff I believe, and AOL just signed with M$ to put IE in their software instead I believe.
That is their allegation, but contrary to your assertion, it has not been independently "confirmed".
I believe I read a very recent report that indicated much of the "duplicate code examples" might not even be from IBM. I believe that I read that more than once in the huge batch of information that has come out since SCO's threat on Monday, but without having time to map out that information yet, sorry I looked but can't currently provide a link.
SCO, Not IBM, May Have Put Unix Code Into Linux.
That is possible, but would only add to the myriad of places that UNIX code had been put into Linux. It wouldn't justify all other possible cases, a least not IMO.
SCO itself distributed Linux under the usual GPL licensing terms
Yes, but not knowingly, since they did not put the code in there, IBM and others did. Despite other faults, the GPL doesn't claim it "steals" code from the owner in those instances.
SCO is represented by David Boies, the lawyer who lost Al Gore's case in the 2000 presidential election, and is currenlty charged with ethical violations by the Florida Bar in the matter of a client whom he was having a "personal relationship" with.
Yes, I am certainly no fan of Mr. Boies, but unfortunately he is considered an expert in such matters and will be involved. I don't think any improper actions in Florida will effect his ability to practice law in Utah. If it does, there are hundreds of other lawyers who would love to take this case.
why not go all the way and paste Dubya's head on your Red Star Penguin? Send it to Tblshow, he'll love it. Perhaps you'd like to add a Hammer and Sickle to the Free Republic logo as well.
No thanks, I am very greatful for Free Republic being online although I would prefer if it was hosted on an operating system founded in the US. Perhaps one day that will change.
This is a false statement. Compiled code can be easily disassembled or traced with a debugger.
What relevance is that to the fact that GPL requires published distribution of its original source? I can download it directly from the web without having to lift a finger with debug tools...
I left the standard cause it didn't work. My Unix/Linux works.
And is available at Sam's Club
They have a 5 year migration plan to move all desktops off of NT to Linux. XP has a Major breaching problem.
WalMart setting the standard for other industries (interfacing with business to business) will move other major corps off of NT also.
Me going back to NT where I had problems would be moving backward except being ahead of competitive trends.
I should have said your original was based on a false premise, i.e. that compiled code is somehow more secure than open source. It's not.
Fairly hard to believe since *NIX is typically considered far more complicated and suited best for techies, while M$ products like Bob that attempt to make life easy are often scoffed at by that very crowd for their simplicity, the 'wizards' for example.
Me going back to NT where I had problems would be moving backward except being ahead of competitive trends.
I don't know your exact situation, but according to NetCraft (who monitor operating system use) they have some interesting data according to their automated pings 8,000 websites recently switched from Linux to Windows Server 2003.
http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2003/07/15/ windows_server_2003_approaching_100000_active_sites_8000_sites_switch_from_linux.html
But you didn't, and if you had, it still would have been an apples to oranges comparison. I can download the entirety of Linux source code, for almost every version that exists, in no time in comparison to efforts to backwardly engnineer just portions of any single proprietary code product.
SCO Group is the new name of Caldera, Inc., a Utah firm founded by Ray Noorda, the founder of Novell. Caldera was a linux distributor. It went public in 2000 with the idea of becoming "the next Red Hat."
It did not become the next Red Hat. It sort of fell on its butt. Caldera bought the UNIXware business of the Santa Cruz Operation (the company formerly known as SCO). That company changed its name to Tarantella; it is still in Santa Cruz. Caldera changed its name to SCO Group.
SCO's complaint against IBM alleges breach of contract, unfair competition, and misappropriation of trade secrets. You will hear this described in press accounts as a copyright infringment case, or even a patent infringement case. To date SCO's complaint contains no such cause of action. It is a 'contract' dispute.
The actual contract is an old one between IBM and AT&T. SCO inherited it as part of the properties it purchased with UNIXware.
Most of the SCO claims turn on the idea that IBM violated the AT&T contract by contributing certain code to linux. No one seriously disputes that the code in question was written by IBM, or by Sequent, which has since become a subsidiary of IBM. SCO does not claim authorship of this code, nor do they allege that it was part of the original AT&T UNIX code.
SCO's claim revolves around a rather expansive definition of the term "derivative work." For example, one of the SCO claims concerns a feature called "JFS." This is an IBM product originally written for OS/2, subsequently ported to AIX, and also contributed to linux. SCO alleges that by porting this code to AIX, IBM made it a "derivative work" of UNIX and hence SCO property. This is for the court to decide. Were the court to decide in SCO's favor, any product ported to UNIX would become an SCO property. This would include Oracle, PeopleSoft... lots of things. Similarly, all things ported to Windows (Photoshop, Dreamweaver, ad infinitum) would become derivative works of Windows and hence the property of Microsoft. Such a ruling would have the effect of shifting billions of dollars in shareholder assets instantly, bankrupting hundreds of companies. Will the courts do it? The Golden Beak insists there is a good chance of this. I say no.
SCO has also announced publicly that it has cancelled IBM's right to sell or use AIX, and that AIX users are running illegal software. IBM and the AIX users are taking the position that SCO has issued an interesting press release.
SCO has also announced that it will soon begin selling "protection" licenses to linux users. These licenses will offer protection from lawsuits by SCO. "Buy our product or we will sue you," is the apparent sales pitch. Many people in the trade press think this is a serious danger. No one else does. SCO has not demonstrated that it owns any part of linux; it merely screams loudly that this is so. Their first lawsuit against a linux user should be an interesting one. In the interim, SCO could potentially be charged with the fraud of "misrepresentation of need," which means taking money from someone under the (false) pretense that the product is "needed." There is currently no reason to believe that anyone running linux "needs" a license from SCO to do so. It is simply a loud claim that SCO makes in the press.
Many people suspect that SCO is a dying company that is attempting to sue its way to prosperity; or failing that, to at least run a satisfying "pump and dump" on its stock. The stock has in fact risen from 60 cents to 12 dollars with all of this hype, and the insiders are indeed dumping, including the CFO. The VP of Engineering recently sold all his stock and resigned. This is the guy who has seen all the secret files of copied code with which SCO will trounce IBM when they get to court. He inexplicably chose not to hang around for the $3 billion payday, choosing instead to get out now with the stock at $12. Perhaps he needed to spend more time with his family.
I'll end it here so as not to distract you from your mission.
Not surprisingly, that would be wrong. While not a full time programmer, I know enough to say that downloaded entire operating systems of freely published source is much easier than disassembling each individual file.
Two things came out of Berkeley in the '60s: BSD and LSD.
It was not a coincidence.
-Jay
Thank God you're wrong.
And on a related note:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/25/technology/25SOFT.html
Summary:
Mr. Gates acknowledged today that the company's error reporting service indicated that 5 percent of all Windows-based computers now crash more than twice each day.
Hmmmm...
sasumata# uptime
00:23:11 up 643 days, 5:36, 20 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
Nufsed.
-Jay
free for anyone on the internet to download and examine the source code text base for security flaws
Which is precisely why Linux is secure, for reasons similar to why the strongest cryptographic algorithms are freely available for review. "Black box" security is no kind of security, boxes are meant to be opened.
Why, and why? Or was that just a lead in for your M$ jab? Sure looks like it.
Sorry I can't get to your link (it says I have to register with the New York Times, thanks a lot) but I don't think you can post whole articles from NYT on FR because there was a lawsuit threatened once I believe.
In any event if 1 in 20 of our M$ systems was crashing every day, I would have a very tough job considering I manage thousands of them. Actually, since Windows 2000 is on most of our servers now and Windows XP on most of the desktops, things have never really been much easier. That rollout of XP went really good, using their latest upgrade tools made it a sinch.
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