Air Marshals Pulled From Key Flights

MSNBC News ^ | July 29, 2003 | Brock N. Meeks

[XHogPilot]

WASHINGTON, July 29 — Despite renewed warnings about possible airline hijackings, the Transportation Security Administration has alerted federal air marshals that as of Friday they will no longer be covering cross-country or international flights, MSNBC.com has learned. The decision to drop coverage on flights that many experts consider to be at the highest risk of attack...

[XHogPilot]

Stupidity in the TSA's Leadership knows no bounds...

Terrorists have just been told which flights have no FAMs onboard!

P.S. I'm still waiting for the TSA to acknowledge my application to join the Federal Flight Deck Officer (armed pilot) training program....

[Rodney King]

Perhaps they are lying.

[Buckwheats]

Nobody could be this stupid, not even a bureaucrat....must be a fake-out....something must be up this weekend.

[grania]

Stupidity in the TSA's Leadership knows no bounds...

Marshalls should be on every flight. If not, a new kind of flight attendant should be there...with military training and the ability to physically stop terrorists. Dressed for combat if necessary. (LaraCroft, Flight Attendent)

Since 911, the prime objective has been to keep people using the airlines. Charge airline passengers what a flight actually costs. Too expensive? Then they should explain why railroads have to make a profit, and they don't.

[dawn53]

disinformation

[sine_nomine]

Utterly inconsistent with what we have been doing since 9-11, but in harmony with faking out the enemy.

I know the flight crews are ready, willing, and able to combat terrorists. Their lives are on the line. Many passengers, including me, would gladly join the fracas if one started.

[OXENinFLA]

HUH?

[OXENinFLA]

WASHINGTON, July 29 —  Despite renewed warnings about possible airline hijackings, the Transportation Security Administration has alerted federal air marshals that as of Friday they will no longer be covering cross-country or international flights, MSNBC.com has learned. The decision to drop coverage on flights that many experts consider to be at the highest risk of attack apparently stems from a policy decision to rework schedules so that air marshals don’t have to incur the expense of staying overnight in hotels.

Oh you need the whole paragraph to fully enjoy the TSA's incompetence.

[eno_]

LaraCroft, Flight Attendent

Now we know for sure people have not been flying recently. In the real world, it's more like Hillary Clinton, Flight Attendant.

[szweig]

Two planes are leaving for the same place at the same time. One has air marshalls and full passenger searches as they now do. The other has searches but also has no problem with passengers who have a CCW permit carrying on the flight. Which plane will fill up first and which would you rather be aboard, hmmm?

[chainsaw]

Train and ARM the pilots - NOW

[Thane_Banquo]

Here's a possible solution:

1) Get rid of the air marshalls on these flights.
2) Deport all immigrants from Islamic nations like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Libya, etc.

[wita]

Precisely the reason I do not fly, having flown for 22 years as a military pilot.

[Poohbah]

The other has searches but also has no problem with passengers who have a CCW permit carrying on the flight. Which plane will fill up first and which would you rather be aboard, hmmm?

Depends. How many swathy-skinned folk with Vermont domiciles are boarding?

[KCmark]

Let's see:

There may be a gun on the plane, but we don't know who has it.
VS
We know there is (at least) a gun on the plane, carried by someone qualified for CCW.

I'll take knowing. One ticket please.

[eno_]

I fear we are about to pay for the joke the TSA is with more innocent lives. Homeland Security is the one issure that could sink the Republicans. We have to get serious about this.

[southland]

I also am a former Air Force pilot I do not like to fly AND HAVE NOT FLOWN SINCE 9/11. The inspectors should inspect all muslems and people from Islamic countries to make flying safer.

[nerdwithamachinegun]

Nobody could be this stupid, not even a bureaucrat....must be a fake-out....something must be up this weekend.
I'd like to be as optomistic about that as you are.
If the last two years of reporting on the Air Marshal program are at all credible then this fits right in line with them.

If not, then the whole Air Marshal organization is run by the smartest bunch of dissemblers in government.

[South Hawthorne]

I know the flight crews are ready, willing, and able to combat terrorists. Their lives are on the line. Many passengers, including me, would gladly join the fracas if one started.

 

Excellent point.  Does anyone really believe that a plane full of people will still sit idly by while 5 rag heads with box cutters try to commandeer the plane?  Look what happened in rural PA when Todd Beamer and his fellow passengers learned what had occurred in New York and Washington.  This isn't the soft target strike it once was.  Ask Richard Reid.

Owl_Eagle

”Guns Before Butter.”

[astounded]

I agree - in my opinion, there is no way a team of 5 muslims could take over a commercial jet in the US. Not only the flight crew, but all able-bodied passengers would join to stop it. Even if they had a firearm, passengers that know they will likely die anyway would be willing to fight. The muslims will certainly have to expend all their ammunition. As for the flight crews, last week I was on an ATA flight from Chicago to Florida and the cabin crew consisted of 3 very able-bodied males who certainly looked capable of resistance - I am noticing more males than before among the cabin crew and consider this to be a direct off-shoot of the terrorist threat.

[Fighting Irish]

Now I'm glad my appplication was rejected (Sky Marshal). Was informed I was too old (44 at time of application).

I then applied for a supervising screener for the TSA. The cattle call reject pool for that met in the lobby of the conference center trying to figure out what we did wrong. In the group were former pilots, law enforcement, retired military,..etc.

As the group grew from 2, 3, 10 to close to 20 it became all too clear that us white/anglo-looking men need not apply.

Stupidity in the TSA's Leadership knows no bounds...indeed!

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

You haven't met many pols or beauracrats then.

[theDentist]

"Nobody could be this stupid, not even a bureaucrat..."

Craig Livingstone could.

[Kozak]

I would love to see the Islamonazi's try this one again. No Air Marshall would be needed, it would be 200 wild beasts tearing the a## holes into tiny bits with their teeth nails and plastic knives. Even on The Day (911) it only took Americans hours to get it right. This trick will not work again.

[New Horizon]

But, but...that would be politically incorrect racial profiling.

[gitmogrunt]

Al Qaeda thanks the TSA for cooperating with their future projects division. Representatives will be contacting an airline near you shortly.

[Movemout]

The whole TSA approach is screwed up. I spent three out of the last four weeks traveling on airplanes to Cleveland, Las Vegas, LA, Seattle, and DC. The process cannot be described as uniform in any way.

I almost missed my LA to Seattle flight because I had to wait in a stunningly long line at Alaska Air to check my bag and get my boarding pass at an e-ticket console. I was then directed to exit the building and stand in another stunningly long line to go through the take off your shoes so we can smell your feet line. Three whole TSA agents to zap your carry-ons and check your belt buckle. It only took me two hours of waiting to be reasonably sure that anyone who wanted to circumvent this asinine approach to security could do so.

Flying has turned into a tale that not even Kafka would write because it can't be true.

[FreePaul]

In keeping with our open borders policy we wouldn't want to interfere with terrorists taking over aircraft. Just wouldn't be fair to let these people enter the country then restrict their activities.

[BlackbirdSST]

This trick will not work again.

I would tend to agree, but that won't get me flying again. These arabs have a tendancy to detonate themselves which certainly put's a dent in anyone's bravado! Until the TSA is shut down and the PC crowd accept's the profiling, my feet are firmly and permanently planted on the ground. Blackbird.

[The Magical Mischief Tour]

As a professional pilot, one who flies daily, I know many other pro pilots some of which fly for major airlines, it's no secret that the number of Federal Air Marshals is still painfully low.

It's still less than 5,000 total, we have just a tad over 65,000 commercial flights each day here in the US of A, you do the math...

[small_l_libertarian]

I can't tell y'all how terrified I am. My job requires me to fly a LOT between March and October. I just got back from SF on Monday and have to fly to Montreal tomorrow. Fly back Monday and then to Toronto in 2 weeks. When I get back from there, it's back to California (then Wisconsin, then Atlanta).

This purely sucks! I sincerely hope it's disinformation. I agree with the poster above who said that the security procedures from airport to airport are not very consistent.

I am seriously considering quitting a very cool job because it's just too dang dangerous!

[Buckwheats]

That's true, I avoid them like the plague. I even pretend not to notice when they try to shake my hand (I suddenly 'see' someone I know way behind them).

[ravingnutter]

Train and ARM the pilots - NOW

Try to keep up, will ya?...

May 02, 2003 - The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) has completed training the first class of commercial airline pilots who volunteered to carry handguns in the cockpit.

The first group of federal flight deck officer candidates received 48 hours of training that included firearms instruction, defensive tactics, instruction in the use of force, legal liability and information on how to safely transport their weapons. Those who graduated on April 19 were to be issued a .40 caliber semi-automatic pistol.

Pilots for the inaugural class were nominated by the Air Line Pilots Association and the Coalition of Airline Pilots Associations and selected by TSA based on the plan to have a diversified test group.

The TSA projected that it would spend about $2,100 to train each pilot volunteer, and an additional $4,100 to select and equip each trainee. Pilots who successfully complete the training will be sworn in as federal law enforcement officers, with jurisdiction limited to the flight deck, or cockpit. To maintain proficiency, pilots will complete re-certification training each year.

Security Solutions Release - May 2003

[Buckwheats]

OK, you're right.

[twigs]

Ann Coulter says in her book, Treason, that the Bush Administration's one weakness is Norman Mineta, transportation secretary left over from the Clinton years. He exhibits all the anti-Americanism inherit in the Dem party worldview. He wants to leave America defenseless. Pretty sobering stuff.

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

Once I was standing along a parade route, talking to some friends I just ran into, and a guy steps up to me and grabs my hand to shake.

I turn and see that I'm shaking hands with Joe Kennedy. Thinking fast, I yank my hand away and immediately proceed to wash it off in a mud puddle.

The crowd roars it's approval. The Kennedy slinks away, mortified.

Bwahahahahaha!

[Squantos]

And deer have been instructed to never look up for hunters in tree stands...........disinformatinal use of presstitutional resources IMHO. But if true, I will agree it's pretty stooooopid. But then I don't use commercial air anymore.

Stay Safe !

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

Yeah, what are they up to now, four, or five graduates?

[Buckwheats]

I agree that the same trick probably won't work again but, how about a new trick; say...a few females with very small pistols hidden where the sun don't shine...if you get my drift.

[Buckwheats]

LOL!

[GingisK]

Look what happened in rural PA when Todd Beamer and his fellow passengers learned what had occurred in New York and Washington.

The plane still made a large, smoking heroic hole in the ground. Only the Israilis seem to understand that security is the art of detecting terrorist people, not the weapons they carry.

[lawdude]

"I agree - in my opinion, there is no way a team of 5 muslims could take over a commercial jet in the US."

I heard of one pilot who said that if his plane was threatened by hijackers he would flip that puppy on its back in a heartbeat. Injuries, be damned. Good for him.

[DonQ]

The real stupidity was releasing this news to the general public. This news might tempt hijackers to make a try ... even if the feds plan to drygulch them, I'd hate to see any sort of shoot-out aboard a plane in flight. And if the public reacts appropriately to this news, the only people buying airplane tickets will be the hijackers.

[sarasota]

I saw lots of TSA folks in St. Louis this weekend, sitting and chatting with each other.

[Those_Crazy_Liberals]

"The other has searches but also has no problem with passengers who have a CCW permit carrying on the flight. Which plane will fill up first and which would you rather be aboard, hmmm?"

How the hell are you going to let a passenger on who is packing and insure security integrity?

[Those_Crazy_Liberals]

"I am noticing more males than before among the cabin crew and consider this to be a direct off-shoot of the terrorist threat."

Even the gay ones are bulking up.

[wazoo1031]

I wish they could search all Islam-types, but then that would "offend" them and then they would cry and sue for discrimination, with the ACLU appeasing them. Hence the reason 2-yr. olds get their shoes checked and 85-yr. old grandmas are subject to strip searches. All the while, we are all "offended" by these souless pieces of human excrement flying loaded jets into national landmarks and killing thousands.

[browardchad]

This is an interesting tidbit, relegated to the end of the story:

The air marshal program has been beset by a number of problems during its quick ramp-up from a few agents to thousands. MSNBC.com reported in June that more than 100 federal air marshals had been fired or stripped of their flight status for problems stemming from their security clearance background investigations. In addition, some air marshals were flying without having received their final security clearances, Transportation Security Administration sources said.

CYA to cover the cuts, or typical bureaucratic stupidity that's undergoing a correction? Is it possible that the new intel about attacks on airliners implicates an air marshall?

Whatever the answer is, it's not comforting.

[wasp69]

Why is it that I am having a sinking feeling about this announcement?