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Republican Breakup?
PhxNews ^ | Joe Duarte

Posted on 07/30/2003 11:25:27 AM PDT by hsmomx3

If you put your ear to the ground, you can hear the rumble. It is the rumble of political discontent, obsolete bipolarities, and looming realignment. What am I talking about? I’m talking about the coming split of the Republican Party.

Years ago, Jeff Foxworthy blessed America with his “…you might be a redneck” jokes. Drawing upon his comedic methodology:

If you fear the one true God, define America as a “Christian Nation”, seek to make God’s Law the law of the land, think of homosexuals as freaks and sinners, and want to jail women who have abortions…you might be a Republican.

If you think history has bequeathed a destiny upon America to serve as the world’s policeman, to liberate oppressed nations, and you love to stay up all night strategizing on how to isolate the Saudis or punish France…you might be a Republican.

If you think it is the proper role of a Jeffersonian state to steal money from citizens to build civic plazas and university labs…you might be a Republican.

If you don’t care about ballooning budget deficits, and want to jack up government spending as though the rising debt never needs to be paid...you might be a Republican.

If you can’t stand deficits, are firmly committed to balancing the budget, and want to dramatically cut taxes and spending…well, you might have been a Republican in 1980.

There are at least five categories above, and all of them consist of people who identify with the GOP. They are, in order: theocratic Christian conservatives (there are, thank God, non-theocratic ones as well), neoconservatives, Chamber of Commerce Republicans who practice crony capitalism, the Bushies, and finally the blessed fiscal conservatives.

So what’s the problem? These people cannot possibly coexist in the same party for much longer. This is especially true now that Republicans in power have abandoned fiscal responsibility. They now stand for nothing – certainly nothing that would meaningfully separate them from big-spending Democrats.

Republicans were supposed to be about freedom – freedom from that monster which takes freedom away – government. The GOP was supposed to “get the government off our backs.” This hasn’t happened, and government at all levels is violating our rights now more than ever.

The above five groups can really be reduced to two kinds of people. There are those people that want to be left alone, and there are those people that refuse to leave others alone. The former simply want to be left alone to pursue their happiness, and are happy to leave others alone to do the same. They understand government’s proper role is limited to securing this freedom from those (criminals and foreign threats) who would aggress upon their peaceful lives. The latter group are all basically civil thugs. They want to impose their vision of the good on others by force. They don’t care if you’re living a peaceful, happy life. In fact, they might hold it against you. They want to take your money, or arrest you for any number of reasons. Got weed? To jail you go. Got a gay lover? To jail you go. Got a cancer treatment they haven’t approved? To jail you go. Got a successful business? How’s 40% off the top sound?

Republicans used to be the leave-me-alone crowd, and Democrats the thugs. Things are messier now.

What we can expect to see in the coming decade or two is a realignment. There are lots and lots of fine leave-me-alone people in the GOP. They don’t hate gays or brown people. They are pro-abortion and anti-tax. They are basically libertarians, but see themselves as too pragmatic to join the Libertarian Party.

There are also some leave-me-aloners in the Democratic camp. I call them smart gay people: they are too gay to be Republican, but much too smart about self-responsibility and economics to be real Democrats. Smart gay people are really good for America.

The theocratic Christian conservatives are a strong wing of the GOP. They will either grow to dominate the GOP or they will get their asses kicked out by the leave-me-alone Republicans. In any case, what we will see is a realignment that unites all the pro-freedom Americans under a major party. The religious nuts might have their own party, like the Religious Nut Party or something similar. It seems structurally impossible to break the two-party system into three or more parties, but I wouldn’t dismiss the possibility altogether. In any case, two parties might be enough to represent the major threads.

There are lots of unhappy Republicans today, chafing at their party’s abandonment of fiscal restraint and occupation by anti-sodomists. There are some number of Democrats that have tired of the drug war, expanded police powers, and foreign adventurism. These people need to find each other, for they are the best Americans.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: 2004; 3rdpartyenemy; bigtent; compassionate; conservatives; democrats; dreamon; fiscal; gop; libertarians; mainstreet; religiousright; republicans; rinos; rnc; soleavealready; winwithoutyou
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1 posted on 07/30/2003 11:25:28 AM PDT by hsmomx3
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To: hsmomx3
Where was the obligatory "Barf" alert?
2 posted on 07/30/2003 11:27:33 AM PDT by DittoJed2
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To: hsmomx3
The only split in the GOP is those who think Bush will win in 2004, and those tho think he'll win by a *landslide* in 2004.

They're both right.

3 posted on 07/30/2003 11:29:32 AM PDT by ChadGore (Kakkate Koi!)
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To: DittoJed2

4 posted on 07/30/2003 11:31:05 AM PDT by Sloth ("I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!" -- Jacobim Mugatu, 'Zoolander')
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To: hsmomx3
This is the best analysis of the probable future trends that I have seen in a long long time. Excellent article!
5 posted on 07/30/2003 11:31:28 AM PDT by FreeLibertarian (You live and learn. Or you don't live long.)
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To: hsmomx3
If you fear the one true God, define America as a “Christian Nation”, seek to make God’s Law the law of the land, think of homosexuals as freaks and sinners, and want to jail women who have abortions…you might be a Republican.

This is a joke. Anyone who views the Christian right this way is either brain dead or has an agenda.

6 posted on 07/30/2003 11:35:14 AM PDT by CyberCowboy777 (They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.)
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To: FreeLibertarian
There may be a split in the GOP -- the 0.3% who are the naysayers will go off to a corner to sulk on their own.
7 posted on 07/30/2003 11:35:14 AM PDT by My2Cents ("Well....there you go again.")
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To: My2Cents
And, of course, there are no divides in the Libertarian so-called party!
8 posted on 07/30/2003 11:38:08 AM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: hsmomx3
Actually, a lot of people define themselves as Republicans simply because they are against the DemonRat "Party of Treason". If the DemonRats ever get safely trampled into the mud, where the US House is 2/3 Republican and the Senate is 60% Republican, and Republicans dominate in most state houses and governorships -- at that point those who have been hanging together to counter a common threat will have it out. What will happen then I don't know. I see 2 plausible scenarios.

1st, the DemonRats will become more and more marginalized and a successful 3rd party will arise. That's only happened twice, I think, and never in this century (emphasis on "successful" meaning they become stronger and stronger and overtake one of the primary parties). This can occur if the blue-collar (non-union) democrats, the fiscal conservatives, the "Goldwater" Republicans, and some others create a 3rd party that will absorb the non-leftists from the Democrat party as well as the fiscal conservative/Goldwater Republicans. I make no likelyhood guess as to how long this would take, but I would guess it would depend on how long it takes for a dominant Republican party to become corrupted.

Alternatively, I could see the Democrat party have a revolution and kick out the Leftist demon possessed gay/green/pediphile wing. If they did that successfully and became the party of fiscal conservatism, strong border control (anti-illegal immigration), and strong military defense they could then challenge a dominant Republican party. But the DemonRats would have to be absolutely trampled into the mud for many years before this could happen. Still -- 20 years -- maybe.

9 posted on 07/30/2003 11:40:41 AM PDT by dark_lord (The Statue of Liberty now holds a baseball bat and she's yelling 'You want a piece of me?')
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To: CyberCowboy777
Both. This kind of comment or "analysis" which relies upon stereotypes shows an inability to understand the true nature of an influential group in our society (or it simply shows the writer's laziness in not doing the research needed to fully understand this group), and dooms the writer and his ilk to perpetual political defeat.

"Know your enemy" is an essential principle of combat, and the author of this article shows no sincere desire to fully "know his enemy," other than to set up a comicbook characterization of people he doesn't like. His laziness and bias consign him to continued defeat and frustration.

10 posted on 07/30/2003 11:41:02 AM PDT by My2Cents ("Well....there you go again.")
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To: hsmomx3
A lot depends on what happens to the 'Rat Party. For example, if they nominate Dean and he loses 49 states, a net 10 Senators and 30 House seats, the 'Rats may alter their approach in some significant ways to pick up one or more of the groups above.

The Republican Party right now is a pretty big tent. Not for nothing does the term "RINO" exist.
11 posted on 07/30/2003 11:44:06 AM PDT by You Dirty Rats
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To: hsmomx3; xsmommy; VaBthang4
There are lots of unhappy Republicans today, chafing at their party’s abandonment of fiscal restraint and occupation by anti-sodomists. There are some number of Democrats that have tired of the drug war, expanded police powers, and foreign adventurism. These people need to find each other, for they are the best Americans.

OK Mr. Browne put your hands in the Air, and step away from the Bong.....

12 posted on 07/30/2003 11:44:41 AM PDT by hobbes1 ( Hobbes1TheOmniscient® "I know everything so you don't have to" ;)
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To: My2Cents

LOL! The DNC needs to come up with better articles if they expect to peel away any meaningful support among Republicans. On the other hand, the RINOS, the militia nutjobs, the racists, those who want to nuke Mecca, and moral-liberals who turn their blind eyes to evil should be encouraged to leave the Party.

13 posted on 07/30/2003 11:44:42 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: hobbes1
i love that pouty little look they have....
14 posted on 07/30/2003 11:45:38 AM PDT by xsmommy
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To: hsmomx3
The Republican Party is historically a coalition between Christians, capitalists, true-believers (he calls them neo-conservatives, but they have always been with us) and pragmatic libertarians. That is the alliance that is the Republican Party. There is always tension between the various currents within the party, but the mixture is more complex than he admits or recognizes, as most people fall into more than one category, and embody more than one current of thought simultaneously.

This makes for a very active philosophical debate, that continues over the generations, as the various currents hammer out a rolling consensus.

15 posted on 07/30/2003 11:45:56 AM PDT by marron
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To: FreeLibertarian
The religious nuts might have their own party, like the Religious Nut Party or something similar

There is already one major party that is the "Religious nut party", the uber secular Democratic party, and their miniscule cousin disguising themself as "right wing", the Libertarians.

16 posted on 07/30/2003 11:46:36 AM PDT by Dane
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To: dark_lord
I think your analysis is absolutely correct. It's the historical precedent that one party will not always dominate the political environment. If, and when, the Democrat Party sinks into permanent futility, something will by necessity rise to take its place and become competitive with the Republican Party. There is also the inevitability that once it becomes fat and happy in its success, the Republican Party will splinter over real ideological differences. But this won't happen until it reaches a perpetual supermajority status.

The bottomline: As long as the only issue that the Democrats have to offer is the right to kill one's unborn child, they are doomed to minority status. I'll cheer the day they sink into the abyss. That's objective #1. When that happens, we can then debate the future of the Republican Party.

17 posted on 07/30/2003 11:47:37 AM PDT by My2Cents ("Well....there you go again.")
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To: hsmomx3
The theocratic Christian conservatives are a strong wing of the GOP

nice touch

18 posted on 07/30/2003 11:47:47 AM PDT by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: hsmomx3

19 posted on 07/30/2003 11:47:53 AM PDT by theDentist (Liberals can sugarcoat sh** all they want. I'm not biting.)
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To: ChadGore
tooooooo right!!!! good riddance to the RATS!
20 posted on 07/30/2003 11:48:56 AM PDT by rrrod
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To: hsmomx3
The basic divide of politics is between the leave me aloners and the do what I sayers.

However, the democrats have NO leave me aloners. The pubs are more evenly split.

For me, the first rule is leave me and mine alone.
Everything else is secondary.

Guess that's why I can't officially become a republican.
21 posted on 07/30/2003 11:49:27 AM PDT by the gillman@blacklagoon.com
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To: CyberCowboy777
>>If you fear the one true God, define America as
>>a “Christian Nation”, seek to make God’s Law the law of
>>the land, think of homosexuals as freaks and sinners, and
>>want to jail women who have abortions…you might be a
>>Republican.
>
>This is a joke. Anyone who views the Christian right this
>way is either brain dead or has an agenda.

Speak for yourself, Cowboy. I believe those things, you gotta problem with that?

Redneck
- If you don't agree with us, you ain't no American!

22 posted on 07/30/2003 11:51:12 AM PDT by RedneckRampage
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com

So you do not drive on public roads, and you refuse to get a driver's license? Otherwise, you are not the little island you like to claim to be.

23 posted on 07/30/2003 11:51:33 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
>For me, the first rule is leave me and mine alone.

So if you're a homo I should leave you alone? In your dreams...

Redneck
- If you don't agree with us, you ain't no American!
24 posted on 07/30/2003 11:53:03 AM PDT by RedneckRampage
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To: hsmomx3
Where can I get "the Phoenix News"???

All I get to see on Newsstands are the RAg [sorry, Gazette flushed years ago] and the Tribune in its various regional flavours!

25 posted on 07/30/2003 11:53:03 AM PDT by Lael (Well, I Guess he DIDN'T go wobbly in the legs!! Now, "W", lets do the REST of the AXIS of EVIL!!)
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To: Dane

LOL! It's much more than a philosophy. It's a way of life! It's a religion!

26 posted on 07/30/2003 11:53:43 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: You Dirty Rats
Not for nothing does the term "RINO" exist.

This isn't an attack upon you, but I've come to despise this term "RINO." It's used by purists who wish to stigmatize Republicans they don't agree with, and it usually is followed by a statement that "I'd rather have a real liberal than a pretend Republican."

I was curious about this, so last week I went to the American Conservative Union website to look at the conservative ratings of a bonafide liberal, and a bonafide "RINO." According to the ratings of the ACU, Barbara Boxer rated a "5" with her voting record last year. Olympia Snowe, everyone's consensus "RINO," rated a "65." I'd take Snowe over Boxer, or just about any other Democrat, any day.

27 posted on 07/30/2003 11:55:18 AM PDT by My2Cents ("Well....there you go again.")
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To: hobbes1
LOL!
28 posted on 07/30/2003 11:56:31 AM PDT by Lady Heron
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To: hobbes1
I'd rather be in the Libertarian Party than the Repugnantcan party anyday.

Your buddies just voted to keep the U.S. in the UN and piss away more American tax dollars. Laugh at the Libertarians all you want with ad hominem and the obligatory doper label, but at least they'll get us out of the UN and abolish the welfare state.

29 posted on 07/30/2003 11:56:32 AM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (EEE)
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To: theDentist
So would one of you Bush kool-aid drinkers (I voted for him, but I'm not a kool-aid drinker for anybody) please tell me when they last heard the words "smaller government" from the mouth of any republican?
30 posted on 07/30/2003 11:56:35 AM PDT by axxmann
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
However, the democrats have NO leave me aloners. The pubs are more evenly split

Very true they(demos) are 100% in trying to stamp out Christian influences in the US.

JMO, they are the religious nuts, in a secualr/atheistic/fundelmenatalist Islam way.

And yet you come up with this quote,

Guess that's why I can't officially become a republican

Thus giving succor to your demo cousins, IMO.

Sheesh I thought you Libertarians were aghast about fence sitters, and here in your reply #21 you declare yourself as a fence sitter.

31 posted on 07/30/2003 11:57:15 AM PDT by Dane
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To: hobbes1
LOL...These are classics.
32 posted on 07/30/2003 11:57:38 AM PDT by My2Cents ("Well....there you go again.")
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To: marron
Very good analysis. Way better than the article, and in greater touch with reality.
33 posted on 07/30/2003 11:58:43 AM PDT by My2Cents ("Well....there you go again.")
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To: Lael

Don't they offer it in the birdcage stores? ;-)

34 posted on 07/30/2003 11:59:03 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: hobbes1
Why the cheap shot at the Libertarian Party?
35 posted on 07/30/2003 11:59:44 AM PDT by ServesURight (FReecerely Yours,)
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To: Cultural Jihad
LOL! It's much more than a philosophy. It's a way of life! It's a religion!

Exactly. The modern democrat party is basically a religion on par with fundemantalist Islam in their hatred of other views, and their miniscule cousins, the Libertarians parrot the demo religion on social issues, IMO.

36 posted on 07/30/2003 12:01:00 PM PDT by Dane
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To: hsmomx3
The author misses the two main difference between RATS and the GOP. First, the GOP believes in capitalism and a free market society, while the RATS subscribe to Karl Marx and a redistribution of wealth. Socialism has already failed everywhere else it's been tried, but that won't stop liberals from trying again.

Secondly, I can't ever recall seeing a group of people who opposed, and actually attempted to undermine, their own country's security like the left has done for the last 50 years. Howard Dean follows a long shameful line of useful idiots that stretches from Mondale, to McGovern, to Alger Hiss.

37 posted on 07/30/2003 12:03:28 PM PDT by ABG(anybody but Gore) (Dammit Jim, I'm a doctor, not a Tagline!)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
For you and yours, the first rule should be about not being blown into bite-sized pieces while you sleep.

Everything else should be secondary.

38 posted on 07/30/2003 12:07:36 PM PDT by Deb (My Tag Skies to Gotham & Con-Fabs With Net Prexies)
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Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
Your buddies just voted to keep the U.S. in the UN and piss away more American tax dollars. Laugh at the Libertarians all you want with ad hominem and the obligatory doper label, but at least they'll get us out of the UN and abolish the welfare state

Ok, let's look at the facts here. The one true and blue "Libertarian" in Congress, Ron Paul, put up for a vote to get the US out of the UN. Fine the Republic in action, but yet that same congressman, sided with the liberal democrats (who are big UN supporters)and the UN in saying that the US and the UK should have not removed saddam from power.

JMO, but can anybody say schizophrenia.

40 posted on 07/30/2003 12:14:50 PM PDT by Dane
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To: ABG(anybody but Gore)
First, the GOP believes in capitalism and a free market society

Not anymore they don't.

41 posted on 07/30/2003 12:16:41 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (EEE)
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To: RedneckRampage
I am certainly an American and a Christian and a Conservative.

I think Homosexuality is a sin. I also think one sexual orientation deserves no special rights, no changing of the structural foundation of the society. I think that ALL AIDS patience should be quarantined and I do not think schools should be teaching homosexuality.

I think this nation was founded on Christian morals and principles. G_d was the first and loudest proponent of Liberty, Freedom and Personal Responsibility.

I believe in the sanctity of life and the Abortion should be illegal. I think it is a detriment to society and erodes the concepts of personal responsibility. I do not think any woman who has an abortion should be jailed. Jail the Doctor once it is illegal.

I think Moral absolutes are the one and only way to establish the rule of law (another G_d invention) and those moral absolutes can only be established by a transcendent moral authority. Authority by creation.

I do think however that you cannot force all G_ds laws upon man - He certainly never forced anything. You must establish a baseline of absolutes, absolutes from that transcendent authority (Jefferson like to call it Natural law), for a civil society. It is the responsibility of the Christians to share and live the faith, then and only then will this nation be saved.

I would not therefore outlaw homosexuality or ban porn and alcohol. Set limits yes, but forcing man to be good will not save his soul.
42 posted on 07/30/2003 12:19:26 PM PDT by CyberCowboy777 (They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.)
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To: Cultural Jihad
Obviously there must be some government. However I advocate as little as possible, thereby having as little stolen from me as possible.

Undoing all the excesses of the past may never happen, but I'd like to stop the continued encroachment.

I have a license, for now, but I have almost no need to drive and little interest in traveling, for now.
43 posted on 07/30/2003 12:22:09 PM PDT by the gillman@blacklagoon.com
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To: RedneckRampage
I ain't a homo, but if I was, I wouldn't be pushing it into other's lives and yes, I would expect to be left alone.

Homos revolt and disgust me but I don't go around looking to bother them, I just don't want to be forced to have one as a scout leader or have their lifestyle shoved in the faces of my children.
44 posted on 07/30/2003 12:26:11 PM PDT by the gillman@blacklagoon.com
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To: RedneckRampage
When did Jesus force anyone to do anything?

The whole point of mankind was the free choice. Homosexuals are sinners (just like pot smokers and those that do not show compassion) and must turn from sin and accept Christ as their savior on their own or it has no legitimacy.

Civil Government must set a rule of law and limits, but the mere fact of being a homosexual does not warrant going to jail.

Jesus was not a politician and said little about civil government. BECAUSE if Christians are doing their job the nation as a majority will be saved and there is no need for a theocracy. Only when the faithful are weak will the nation flounder and then no law can stem the tide.
45 posted on 07/30/2003 12:27:45 PM PDT by CyberCowboy777 (They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.)
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To: CyberCowboy777
Hey! Homosexuals are not freaks! As for the rest of it...the problem is that Bubba's Reign has shown that Democrats don't believe in the existance of sin. Anything is permitted, they reason, if you lie big enough not to get caught.
46 posted on 07/30/2003 12:28:56 PM PDT by 50sDad ("Can't sleep...clowns will eat me!")
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To: My2Cents; hsmomx3
There is also the inevitability that once it becomes fat and happy in its success, the Republican Party will splinter over real ideological differences.

There are sufficient tensions within the Repubs to warrant at least two parties, in the absense of the Democrats. But while half the country is wedded to the left, the gulf that separates us from them keeps us wedded to each other. Its a Jackie Gleason kind of marriage, the arguing never stops, but it contrasts well with the left where dissent is spookily absent.

Among the Democrats, the only debate is whether the US is evil, or really really evil. Whether the responsibility of the government is to meet most of life's needs, or all of them.

For actual reality-based intellectual energy and exploration you have to look to the conservo-libertarian side of the street.

The Democrats are the Abortion Party, and they have done everything they can to drive believing Christians and Jews out of the party. Now they are doing what they can to drive out any remaining patriots, and anyone with a personal moral code. Since the Republican Party is a fairly big tent, where diversity of opinion actually exists, we have been the beneficiary of this shift. When better days come, our differences will be sufficient to split us into several competing parties, and I look forward to such a time. Meanwhile, we are stuck with each other, and we are a fortunate, if somewhat noisy and cranky, family.

47 posted on 07/30/2003 12:33:37 PM PDT by marron
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To: hsmomx3
Re: If you fear the one true God, define America as a “Christian Nation”, seek to make God’s Law the law of the land, think of homosexuals as freaks and sinners, and want to jail women who have abortions

Liberals have no tolerance for the morality that arises from religion having a positive influence on their society.

Note:

48 posted on 07/30/2003 12:34:10 PM PDT by ChadGore (Kakkate Koi!)
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To: 50sDad
Homosexuals are sinners, but until they hurt someone I am not going to jail them.

Quarantine those with AIDS - YES.

Protect marriage as the foundation of society that it is - YES.

Deny them special rights and considerations - YES.

Deny them the power to force employment or Church membership or leadership in the scouts - YES.

Homosexuals are just another group of sinners that want mankind to legitimize their sin and thumb their nose at G_d. Man is rebellious.
49 posted on 07/30/2003 12:35:00 PM PDT by CyberCowboy777 (They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.)
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To: Dane
I'm not a libertarian. Open borders is absurd.

I'm an individual.

I vote for the party which will harm me least.
Only democrat besides local officials I ever voted for was Paul Tsongas for senate.
He was a good person and a man. Somewhat misguided, but only somewhat. If he had gotten the nomination(and didn't die)against Bush the first, I might have voted for him for president. Might have.

I give a lot of money to pubs across the country.

Locally there is no hope for pubbies.
50 posted on 07/30/2003 12:35:04 PM PDT by the gillman@blacklagoon.com
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