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Republican Breakup?
PhxNews ^ | Joe Duarte

Posted on 07/30/2003 11:25:27 AM PDT by hsmomx3

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To: mrsmith
Yeah, using Jefferson to argue against taxes for public education is a sure sign of a whackjob. Jefferson was a strong proponent of publicly funded education

Exactly, Jefferson was the founder of the University Of Virginia in Charlottesville.

141 posted on 07/30/2003 4:54:39 PM PDT by Dane
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To: mrsmith
Jefferson wasn't infallible either...however...were he able to look at today's works he would quite certainly change his mind on how much the government should do.

The Anti-Federalists were freaking PROPHETIC!

Look them up sometime.
142 posted on 07/30/2003 5:05:49 PM PDT by Maelstrom (To prevent misinterpretation or abuse of the Constitution:The Bill of Rights limits government power)
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To: Dane
"...by the bill for a general education, [citizens] would be qualified to understand their rights, to maintain them, and to exercise with intelligence their parts in self-government: and all this would be effected without the violation of a single natural right of any one individual citizen." (Autobiography)

He was a great believer that public education was absolutely proper- and neccessary to maintain a republican form of government.

143 posted on 07/30/2003 5:08:13 PM PDT by mrsmith
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To: Maelstrom
"Look them up sometime."
You make me LOL newbie!

But seriously, Jefferson would be astonished at what the NEA and the feds have done to our schools.
The fact that a child is better prepared to be a citizen by parochial schools would especially horrify him I think.

144 posted on 07/30/2003 5:12:46 PM PDT by mrsmith
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To: mrsmith
But seriously...How long do I have to be here to stop being a newbie?

A year after you signed up? Six months?

I think that the fact a child is better prepared to be a citizen by parocial schools would change his mind about how much involvement the government should have in the lives' of our nation's citizenry...thus my comment.
145 posted on 07/30/2003 5:16:41 PM PDT by Maelstrom (To prevent misinterpretation or abuse of the Constitution:The Bill of Rights limits government power)
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To: mrsmith
"I have indeed two great measures at heart, without which no republic can maintain itself in strength: 1. That of general education, to enable every man to judge for himself what will secure or endanger his freedom. 2. To divide every county into hundreds, of such size that all the children of each will be within reach of a central school in it." --Thomas Jefferson to John Tyler, 1810. ME 12:393
146 posted on 07/30/2003 5:20:07 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07
Jefferson was wrong...and would freely admit it were he able to witness the destruction of education today.
147 posted on 07/30/2003 5:42:52 PM PDT by Maelstrom (To prevent misinterpretation or abuse of the Constitution:The Bill of Rights limits government power)
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To: Maelstrom
Jefferson was wrong...and would freely admit it were he able to witness the destruction of education today.

No, Jefferson was right in his goals for public education. That our current and former representation made and make crappy policy decisions is another matter.

I can't speak for Jefferson but something tells me he would be a big voucher guy.

148 posted on 07/30/2003 5:49:46 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Maelstrom
We, unlike the person quoted, know Jefferson strongly supported public education- and why he did.
Sure one can speculate, knowing why he supported it, that maybe he would change his mind and support some other general means of educating citizens today.
Why he should blame the taxation for the problems isn't very clear. The system worked pretty well until a few decades ago.
The federal influence would certainly draw his attention.
149 posted on 07/30/2003 5:51:00 PM PDT by mrsmith
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To: gcruse
Some people think it's a bad thing that Democrats have their hands in your pocket, tell you who you must associate with and all the other odious things Democrats stand for but at the same time think it's fine that Republicans want to have a say in your bedroom and in other private and personal issues that are none of their business.
150 posted on 07/30/2003 6:54:51 PM PDT by Courier (Bring joy to Jedda, re-elect Bush)
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To: jwalsh07
Public education is a mistake.

Education is a product, it *must* be done competetively or the current situtation *inevitably* arises.

INEVITABLY

It's one of the inherent problems with socialism.
151 posted on 07/30/2003 6:56:56 PM PDT by Maelstrom (To prevent misinterpretation or abuse of the Constitution:The Bill of Rights limits government power)
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To: mrsmith
The problem is that education is a product. It must be treated as a product in order to ensure that the best education is available for the dollar at any given economic niche.

This can only be done through competition. You guys know this inherently, but are afraid to challenge the Founders where they messed up.
152 posted on 07/30/2003 7:00:07 PM PDT by Maelstrom (To prevent misinterpretation or abuse of the Constitution:The Bill of Rights limits government power)
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To: Courier
Funny how that works, innit? But they'd be the last to see the truth of your comparison.
153 posted on 07/30/2003 7:03:05 PM PDT by gcruse (http://gcruse.blogspot.com/)
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To: marron
The Republican Party is historically a coalition between Christians, capitalists, true-believers (he calls them neo-conservatives, but they have always been with us) and pragmatic libertarians. ... the mixture is more complex than he admits or recognizes, as most people fall into more than one category ...

Exactly right. My political views are strongly influenced by my Christian beliefs, I am an unswerving Capitalist, I still don't understand what the heck a neo-conservative is, and I would describe myself as a pragmatic libertarian. Some folks claim these are incompatable, but I think that describes the Founding Fathers quite well.



154 posted on 07/30/2003 7:05:10 PM PDT by gitmo (We have left the slippery slope and we are now in free fall.)
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To: hsmomx3
The crackup of the GOP must be why Bush in poll after poll gets 90% plus support from self indentified Pubbies. Secular somewhat more economically oriented free market types with a relaxed view about social issues that are not particularly interested in waging a culture war, and more religious moralist types have been compromising with each other in the GOP since rocks cooled. This breakup stuff is so ersatz.
155 posted on 07/30/2003 7:14:37 PM PDT by Torie
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To: RedneckRampage
Ok, let's repeal all laws and let people do what they want because you don't want "big government". We are a Christian country, we need to pass laws that reflect that.

At the state level, I have absolutely no problem with passing laws based on morality. The Founders originally left enough room in the Constitution for just that, hence all the old, but good, morality laws at the state level. But at the national level? No power under the Constitution and not intended.

And no I'm not an 'American', I'm a North Carolinian

156 posted on 07/30/2003 7:22:50 PM PDT by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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To: tdadams
Bosh.
157 posted on 07/31/2003 6:52:53 AM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: RedneckRampage
So if you're a homo I should leave you alone? In your dreams...

You might want to clarify that a bit. People could take that the wrong way.

158 posted on 07/31/2003 8:51:47 AM PDT by jmc813 (Check out the FR Big Brother 4 thread! http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/943368/posts)
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To: My2Cents
week I went to the American Conservative Union website to look at the conservative ratings of a bonafide liberal, and a bonafide "RINO." According to the ratings of the ACU, Barbara Boxer rated a "5" with her voting record last year. Olympia Snowe, everyone's consensus "RINO," rated a "65." I'd take Snowe over Boxer, or just about any other Democrat, any day.

I've seen this citation a lot on here the last few wweeks. It really, really saddens me that FR is becoming a place to defend Olympia Snowe. BARF!

159 posted on 07/31/2003 8:53:23 AM PDT by jmc813 (Check out the FR Big Brother 4 thread! http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/943368/posts)
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To: Dane
Do you agree with Ron Paul that President Bush was mistaken in giving $15 billion in aid to Africa? If you answer this you'll have the distinction of being the first person not to ignore this question when I ask it.
160 posted on 07/31/2003 8:56:00 AM PDT by jmc813 (Check out the FR Big Brother 4 thread! http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/943368/posts)
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