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Job Loss Anger Should Fade
SAP Web site ^ | 7/30/2003 | Gartner Group

Posted on 07/30/2003 2:03:53 PM PDT by leadpencil1

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To: dfwgator
how do you stop Al-Qaeda agents from working as software programmers?

Is Alqaida outsourcing now, too? Well, tell them that while the bomb doesn't work, it is hard to beat the price.

41 posted on 07/30/2003 2:47:34 PM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: dfwgator; Cool Guy
The Indians that make it over to the US are generally much better than the ones back in Mumbai. There are definately some very brilliant Indian coders with good communication skills, but they are in the minority.

Ping to Exhibit Number One.

The dothead who's not a hothead! The host with the most! The one, the only, COOL GUY!

42 posted on 07/30/2003 2:50:26 PM PDT by Lazamataz (PROUDLY POSTING WITHOUT READING THE ARTICLE SINCE 1999!)
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To: leadpencil1
Job Loss Anger Should Fade

Obviously written by someone who's never lost a job. I myself am still pissed off over a layoff that happened 15 years ago.

Other Gartner predictions include:
1. Monkeys will soon learn to speak.
2. Peace will break out in the Middle East.
3. The next version of windows will have far fewer bugs.

43 posted on 07/30/2003 2:50:30 PM PDT by searchandrecovery (America will not exist in 25 years.)
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To: Lazamataz
One tariff could shut down offshoring in about 15 minutes.

Serious question: how do you effectively enforce it?

I'm not kidding. That guy visiting on a tourist visa with a CD player and a stack of CDs? He's just the courier, laundering the code by dropping it off at the "100% American programming" shop for final delivery to the customer.

Maybe he just sends it preloaded into one of those keychain fob USB RAM sticks.

Total time for me to conceptualize those two ways past the customs check: about sixty seconds.

44 posted on 07/30/2003 2:52:12 PM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.)
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To: harpseal
Lost a job last week. Found a new one within the week. This compares to my last bout of unemployment (in February), where it took me two months to find a part-time job. Here's hoping things really pick up when I get out of school in May.
45 posted on 07/30/2003 2:53:27 PM PDT by Clemenza (East side, West side, all around the town. Tripping the light fantastic on the sidewalks of New York)
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To: harpseal
It is far far worse than 1929, and The Blue Sky. We have fiat money, and bigger herds.

When I say far far worse, honestly, I have no idea what "worse" might mean, except that the bubble and the irresponsibility are grander, a few numbers up the Richter scale.

We have some protections, I think -- during the fall. We'll see, there's naught else to do now but wait for the storm to be on top of us, hold on and then, as possible, get out and clean up.

46 posted on 07/30/2003 2:54:31 PM PDT by bvw
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To: Utah Girl
"(I was laid off in June after 13 years there.) "

What's your embedded background like?

47 posted on 07/30/2003 2:55:10 PM PDT by Elric@Melnibone (If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.)
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To: Poohbah
Serious question: how do you effectively enforce it?

I'm not kidding. That guy visiting on a tourist visa with a CD player and a stack of CDs? He's just the courier, laundering the code by dropping it off at the "100% American programming" shop for final delivery to the customer.

Maybe he just sends it preloaded into one of those keychain fob USB RAM sticks.

Total time for me to conceptualize those two ways past the customs check: about sixty seconds.

No, it's a good question. You enforce it the same way you enforce tax laws, which business could also flout, if they elected to try. Tariffs are, after all, nothing more than a tax: Money must be wired offshore, and that leaves big red glowing money trails.

Besides, never underestimate the Disgruntled Ex-Employee. More tax-fraud and software piracy has been exposed by that vector than any other.

48 posted on 07/30/2003 2:55:23 PM PDT by Lazamataz (PROUDLY POSTING WITHOUT READING THE ARTICLE SINCE 1999!)
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To: Elric@Melnibone; Utah Girl
(singsong voice) UG's got a joo-oob, UG's got a joo-oob....
49 posted on 07/30/2003 2:56:25 PM PDT by Lazamataz (PROUDLY POSTING WITHOUT READING THE ARTICLE SINCE 1999!)
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To: Poohbah
As I said before, what is really the difference between buying an off the shelf product like Excel or Word and buying a customized application? You don't employ the coders who created Excel, so essentially it is the same thing with custom applications. Your are still buying a tangible product from a third-party source either way.
50 posted on 07/30/2003 2:57:43 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: leadpencil1
Except when it comes to businesses operating here in America who are taxed, regulated and brow beat into oblivion. The problem with business in America is the American Government. There's only one law that should apply to businesses who operate here.

If you sell here, you hire here.

End of Story.
51 posted on 07/30/2003 2:58:36 PM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (If you continue to do what you've always done, you will continue to get what you've always got.)
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To: Lazamataz
No, it's a good question. You enforce it the same way you enforce tax laws, which business could also flout, if they elected to try.

More of them do than you would believe.

Tariffs are, after all, nothing more than a tax: Money must be wired offshore, and that leaves big red glowing money trails.

A smart and ruthless operator will get past that issue in about ten seconds.

Besides, never underestimate the Disgruntled Ex-Employee. More tax-fraud and software piracy has been exposed by that vector than any other.

Never underestimate how ruthless someone can be when he deliberately starts a criminal enterprise, as the "100% 'Murrican" code shop would be. That tends to discourage people from getting disgruntled...as it may soon be followed by being deceased.

52 posted on 07/30/2003 3:00:04 PM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.)
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To: sarcasm
job losses have happened before, will happen again, and those complaining are ignoring economics and the unemployment rate. a high percentage of the unemployed are intentionally and happily unemployed; many others are low lifes. others simply don't know how to network or look for work.

this is not a problem for guvernmint.

53 posted on 07/30/2003 3:00:08 PM PDT by alrea
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To: searchandrecovery
Obviously written by someone who's never lost a job.

Probably penned by a new Gartner hire who is feeling great about his or her new job. Problem is, turnover at Gartner is very high as well, so chances are they will soon be leaving Gartner. Boo hoo for them.

54 posted on 07/30/2003 3:00:38 PM PDT by leadpencil1
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To: leadpencil1
The following looks like a caveat written by a dissenter in-house at Gartner:

Offshore Outsourcing Bodes Poorly for Some Careers – Part One

Diane Morello
V.P. and Research Director

Outsourcing deals lead to career opportunities for some employees, as Gartner analyst Lorrie Scardino pointed out earlier this week. But when it comes to offshore outsourcing, the opposite may be true. The movement of IT-related work from the United States, Western Europe, Australia and other developed countries to vendors and sites in emerging markets is an irreversible megatrend, and the workforce changes that accompany the movement are not fleeting or temporal.

Large vendors and service providers are aggressively pursuing offshore markets for IT delivery. If we consider changes in the United States to be harbingers of changes in other developed economies, then the technical workforce in developed economies is in tough shape. At the risk of being conservative, here's what we see unfolding in the United States alone in the next two years:

By year-end 2004, one out of every 10 jobs within U.S.-based IT vendors and service providers will move to emerging markets, as will one out of every 20 IT jobs within user enterprises (0.8 probability).

Although many CIOs and business leaders claim that offshore outsourcing permits them to reassign people to higher-value work, we've seen few instances of that. In general, the offshore movement of IT-related work displaces jobs. [Emphasis added]

Through 2005, fewer than 40 percent of people whose jobs are moved to emerging markets will be redeployed by their current employers (0.8 probability).

Without an investment boom, "white knight" industries, new IT-led innovation or new ways of competing globally, the scenario for the technical workforce in developed nations looks bleak. For example, if we apply the assumptions above to the IT Association of America's 2003 count of 10.3 million IT practitioners in the U.S., preliminary analysis indicates that another 500,000 IT jobs plausibly may disappear from the U.S. by year-end 2004. Developed countries take heed. Structural workforce changes are headed your way.

55 posted on 07/30/2003 3:00:40 PM PDT by Paul Ross (A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one!-A. Hamilton)
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To: Lazamataz

Or they'll just set the building on fire.

56 posted on 07/30/2003 3:01:36 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: leadpencil1
another SAP-py report
57 posted on 07/30/2003 3:01:46 PM PDT by y2k_free_radical (i)
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To: Paul Ross
Even if they do away with outsourcing, all that leaves now is age discrimination.
58 posted on 07/30/2003 3:03:23 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Poohbah
"No, it's a good question. You enforce it the same way you enforce tax laws, which business could also flout, if they elected to try."

More of them do than you would believe.

Well, the only thing you do with those businesses is what we presently do: Investigate them with the FBI and put the decision makers in prison. Flouting tax laws is not a healthy way to run a business.

Nor should our decision to invoke tariffs be in any way influenced by the minority of businesses who choose to be scofflaws. That would be like revoking fraud law because a minority of individuals commit fraud.

59 posted on 07/30/2003 3:03:52 PM PDT by Lazamataz (PROUDLY POSTING WITHOUT READING THE ARTICLE SINCE 1999!)
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To: dfwgator
Good L-rd, thats my co-worker.
60 posted on 07/30/2003 3:04:36 PM PDT by Lazamataz (PROUDLY POSTING WITHOUT READING THE ARTICLE SINCE 1999!)
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