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Martin's dog is moved for protection (Crooks have "contract" out on it)
The Telegraph - UK ^ | 31/07/2003 | David Sapsted

Posted on 07/31/2003 1:38:19 PM PDT by David Hunter

Tony Martin's most precious possession, his dog Otto, was moved to a secret location yesterday hours after it was claimed that travellers planned to kill it.

A newspaper reported that a £5,000 "contract" had been put out on Otto, the only one of Martin's three Rottweilers to survive since he was jailed.

The dog had been moved from Worcestershire to kennels in Lincolnshire shortly after Christmas. Yesterday morning, it was taken to another, secret address.

"Mr Martin was tremendously upset by the suggestion people were out to kill his dog," said Malcolm Starr, the farmer's closest friend. "They haven't been reunited but I expect they will be in the next couple of days."

Travellers were said to have put a price on the dog's head in revenge for the shooting by Martin, 58, of Fred Barras, 16, during a burglary at his farmhouse in Emneth Hungate, Norfolk.

*A report in early editions of yesterday's Telegraph stated that Tony Martin was being guarded by representatives of ITN and a national newspaper. ITN has asked us to point out that none of its news outlets is offering any payment for an interview with Martin. We apologise for the error.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: burglar; gun; homeowner; shooting; tonymartin; uk
Here's an interesting quote from here:

Ishmael Steele, Barras's cousin, who lives on the same road in Newark where Barras grew up, said Martin would be killed. "He will get it. Something will happen to him, it's got to..."

Another cousin of Barras, who gave his name as Georgi, said the travelling community had recently put a £60,000 bounty on Martin's head.

"He is a dead man. I don't know if it will be a traveller that will do it, but it will be a proper hitman, a professional job," he said.

I'm getting sick of these scumbag relatives and criminal associates ("travellers") of Fred Barras. Now I'm not a violent man by nature, but the more I hear about these people, the more I'd like to give them a taste of their own medicine. I think it would be poetic justice if someone out there did us a service by posting the addresses of these people on the internet, so that if something should happen to Tony then those behind it would find out what it feels like to need Police protection. I suspect that the threat of a little "rough justice" might be just what is required to deter these thieving bastards; since the UK "justice system" has succeeded in sending out all the wrong messages to the criminal fraternity.

1 posted on 07/31/2003 1:38:20 PM PDT by David Hunter
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To: David Hunter
What are "Travellers"?
2 posted on 07/31/2003 1:39:27 PM PDT by Elliott Jackalope (Formerly Billy_bob_bob)
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To: Elliott Gigantalope
Gypsies. They must be like that lowlife woman who was beating her kid senseless in the SUV a few months ago.
3 posted on 07/31/2003 1:41:52 PM PDT by Paul Atreides
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To: Paul Atreides
Oh, OK. I got it. The new "politically correct" name for Gypsies. Thanks for the info.
4 posted on 07/31/2003 1:43:44 PM PDT by Elliott Jackalope (Formerly Billy_bob_bob)
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To: Elliott Gigantalope
"Traveller" is a politically correct term for a gypsy, although it applies more broadly to include new age travellers too.
5 posted on 07/31/2003 1:44:22 PM PDT by David Hunter
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To: Elliott Gigantalope
Travellers or Pikeys are groups of bums who go from place to place in groups stealing things and scamming people out of money. They're called Irish Travelers in the US and Tinkers in Ireland.

One of them was caught on tape last year savagely beating her child in a parking lot.

They speak their own slang, are generally related to one another and are kind of like white gypsies. Brad Pitt played one in the movie Snatch and Bill Paxton and Mark Wahlberg starred in a movie about the group called Traveller.

They're the scum of the earth.

6 posted on 07/31/2003 1:45:25 PM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: Paul Atreides
Or as my friend, who’s a policeman in the North of England, refers to them "filthy thieving gypsy bastards".
7 posted on 07/31/2003 1:45:54 PM PDT by Flashman_at_the_charge
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To: Paul Atreides
Perhaps dear Giorgi and Ishmael should be taught the meaning of the term "pre-emptive strike".....
8 posted on 07/31/2003 1:45:54 PM PDT by tracer (/b>)
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To: David Hunter
They don't have addresses - the best you would be able to do is get the license plate of the stolen car they're using this week.
9 posted on 07/31/2003 1:46:24 PM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: wideawake
"They're the scum of the earth."

What? When did the Clinton's lose that ranking?

10 posted on 07/31/2003 1:48:28 PM PDT by theDentist (Liberals can sugarcoat sh** all they want. I'm not biting.)
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To: Elliott Gigantalope
I think these are Gypsies. Travellers, what the Brits sometimes call Pikies usually have Irish sounding names, these folks appear to have more exotic names!
11 posted on 07/31/2003 1:49:12 PM PDT by Murtyo
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To: David Hunter
travelers bump
12 posted on 07/31/2003 1:49:57 PM PDT by dennisw (G_d is at war with Amalek for all generations)
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To: theDentist
It wouldn't surprise me if the Clintons (not their real name) came from that strain.
13 posted on 07/31/2003 1:50:46 PM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: wideawake
I think you're wrong here. This group don't appear to me to be Irish Travellers. Not sure either that, whoever they are it's fair to call the whole lot of them "scum of the earth" though I wouldn't disagree that SOME of them are very scummy
14 posted on 07/31/2003 1:52:11 PM PDT by Murtyo
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To: David Hunter
"by posting the addresses of these people on the internet"

They probably don't have addresses. Isn't 'travelers' a politically correct name for gypsies?

15 posted on 07/31/2003 1:54:24 PM PDT by MEGoody
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To: David Hunter
Their messin' with the dog: NOW we'll see some pissed-of libs.
16 posted on 07/31/2003 1:55:04 PM PDT by dasboot (Celebrate UNITY!)
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To: wideawake
They don't have addresses - the best you would be able to do is get the license plate of the stolen car they're using this week.

Yes, due to their accommodation arrangements the travellers aren't good targets for the threat of public retaliation. However, the cousins of Barras and their close relations are probably in on the death threats against Martin, so fingering them might deter the people who plan to do the deed.

17 posted on 07/31/2003 1:55:39 PM PDT by David Hunter
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To: Elliott Gigantalope
What are "Travellers"?

They are not gypsies, nor are they a politically correct name for gypsies. They are a seperate group. The Travelers are decended from British immigrants. They are divided into three main groups the Irish Travelers, the Scotish Travelers, and the English Travelers.

Like the gypsies they move about the country committing scams for money. Their favorite trick is home repair scams. They claim you need an expensive repair then don't do the work or do some slipshod work with inferior materials (i.e. they say they are going to repave your drive way and then just pour old motor oil all over it.)Of course they disappear quickly with your money.
18 posted on 07/31/2003 1:56:25 PM PDT by redheadtoo
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To: MEGoody
They probably don't have addresses. Isn't 'travelers' a politically correct name for gypsies?

Actually they live in very nice house in their own communities. The trouble with posting addresses is that the Travelers often have the exact same names. In a traveler town half of the men will be officially named John Murphy. They have private names that they use among themselves to differenciate between several hundred men named Murphy.
19 posted on 07/31/2003 2:02:12 PM PDT by redheadtoo
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To: dasboot
You're probably right the lefties are likely to have more compassion for Martin's dog than they have for him. In their eyes he is just a horrible old vigilante who took the law into his own hands and ought to have moved out to live in a less secluded place.
20 posted on 07/31/2003 2:06:27 PM PDT by David Hunter
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To: MEGoody
Gypsies is an un-PC term for Romani people. Romani people are believed to have moved to Europe from India about 1000 years ago. Travellers is the standard name for nomadic irish groups. They share no common history with Gypsies. Words like "Tinkers" and "Knackers" have connotations like the N-word does in the United States. Both are used widely in Ireland. Travellers are a sizable chunk of Ireland's Population - maybe 3% or 4%. They have a reputation - mostly fairly earned - for fighting and thievery - however there are good and bad amoung the travellers too.
21 posted on 07/31/2003 2:07:27 PM PDT by Murtyo
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To: David Hunter
Martin should let them kill his dog. This would turn the population against the criminal animal killers and bring PETA into the mix to denounce them.

Isn't it a bigger crime in England to kill a pet than to kill a human?
22 posted on 07/31/2003 2:19:23 PM PDT by Chewbacca (No State shall make anything but gold and silver COIN a payment of debt. - Article 1, Section 10)
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To: Paleo Conservative; Sparta; MadIvan; Blood of Tyrants; DBrow; WorkingClassFilth; ...
PING!
23 posted on 07/31/2003 2:21:39 PM PDT by David Hunter
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To: Chewbacca
You might be right. There was some public anger, but not enough, when the other burglar (a heroin dealer with over 30 criminal convictions) who was injured by Martin, threatened to sue for damages using free legal aid. Killing a defenceless animal would show people just how despicable these criminals are.
24 posted on 07/31/2003 2:30:57 PM PDT by David Hunter
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To: UnklGene; wafflehouse; TexasRepublic; Billthedrill; Rifleman; jjm2111; MissNomer; steve8714; ...
PING!
25 posted on 07/31/2003 2:37:36 PM PDT by David Hunter
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To: David Hunter
There is no constitution in Britain stopping Parliment from "Outlawing" the Travelers in the old meaning of the word, that is they would be outside the protection of any law and subject to death or enslavement at the hands of anyone who caught them.

The only thing stopping it is political cowardice.

So9

26 posted on 07/31/2003 2:49:45 PM PDT by Servant of the Nine (Goldwater Republican)
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To: David Hunter
Circumstances similar to this existed in the bad old days in San Francisco. People raised on western movies tend to think Committees of Vigiliance to be a bad thing. It isn't necessarily so.

This community may well end up with such a committee if the authorities fail to respond to this situation. It's all very well to fantasize about catching the fellow killing the dog and thrashing him as an example to the others (Hollywood movies are full of this sort of thing), but it won't be an example, it will merely be an incentive for them to set their own example on the guy who did it, and they'll always have the advantage because (1) they have no fixed addresses, (2) they're used to criminal activity, and (3) they have more violent people available to them than the average citizen. In the U.S. a firearm is only a partial equalizer, as they learned in San Francisco. It's a breakdown and a failure of society that allows this situation, and it must be addressed on a collective level.

The reason that you always run into trouble with the authorities taking this approach is that one part of being an "authority" is possessing a monopoly on "legitimate" violence. Mr. Martin found that out the hard way.

27 posted on 07/31/2003 2:51:48 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Paul Atreides
Gypsies. They must be like that lowlife woman who was beating her kid senseless in the SUV a few months ago.

They have a society like Gypsies, but they are Irish.
They are a clan of con men and thugs. They literaly own several small towns in the United States, and use them for bases in their wandering and plundering.

So9

28 posted on 07/31/2003 2:52:32 PM PDT by Servant of the Nine (Goldwater Republican)
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To: David Hunter
Welcome back my friend.
29 posted on 07/31/2003 3:00:31 PM PDT by Sparta (A liberal is a conservative minus logic and morals.)
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To: wideawake
Is the child ok?
30 posted on 07/31/2003 3:02:56 PM PDT by diamond6 ("Everyone who is for abortion HAS been born." Ronald Reagan)
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To: Servant of the Nine
The lack of a constitution in Britain and the political cowardice of the left/liberal politicians is the reason Martin found himself in this predicament in the first place.

The British government will never "outlaw" any group, other than self-confessed terrorists, because that wouldn't be cricket in this day and age. Instead, they will just pass another set of useless gun laws and probably more limits on a citizen's already fragile right to self defence.

I heard a whiney liberal politician on the radio the other day saying how the Martin case showed the need for more restrictions on gun ownership. These liberal morons need a few violent thugs to break into their houses a few times, then we'll see how they feel about a citizen's right to defend themselves and their property with force.

31 posted on 07/31/2003 3:06:55 PM PDT by David Hunter
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To: Billthedrill
I agree with what you have written about professional criminals having the advantage over the law abiding citizenry, even when the citizenry get organised and turn nasty. However, there would be a political advantage to a vigilante like organisation getting involved in this case.

The formation of an pseudo-vigilante organisation, even one that doesn't actually take any action other than "talking the talk" and being highly vocal in the media, together with support from middle class respectable British people is likely to cause the arrogant British government to reverse its tradition of ignoring the victims of robbery and burglary and with any luck to rethink its policy on self defence.

Nothing will happen if another householder, or a hundred, are convicted for defending themselves against burglars under similar circumstances, they will just be prosecuted by the same worthless idiots that Martin was. What's needed is someone to start rocking the boat, to frighten the government into enacting more right wing/libertarian style policies.

32 posted on 07/31/2003 3:36:27 PM PDT by David Hunter
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To: David Hunter
I agree. Throwing the bums out of office is the normal recourse in a democratic society. Perhaps a vigorous, grass-roots publicity campaign on the line of "we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it any more" might bear fruit? It will have to be local, though - the ones pushing the criminal coddling policies are, by and large, safe in their offices in a city far away.
33 posted on 07/31/2003 3:42:59 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: David Hunter
England is the home of the long bow, isn't it? Are crossbows legal there? In any case, both should be fairly easy to fabricate with a modest supply of hand tools and skill. Here's some help to get things started:

http://www.cambiumbooks.com/books/sporting_goods/0-946323-14-3/

Good luck, Mr. Martin. If you have any inkling to leave your socialist paradise, come to the USA for the last stand of civilization.
34 posted on 07/31/2003 8:03:14 PM PDT by WorkingClassFilth (Defund NPR, PBS and the LSC.)
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To: David Hunter
Little bastards.
35 posted on 08/01/2003 7:28:30 AM PDT by jjm2111
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To: David Hunter
If it required cobbling up a raft to escape England, I would. Any reason there has been turned upside-down and inside-out. OK, what are legal implications there if the travellers beat Mr. Martin to death with a stunned cat?
36 posted on 08/01/2003 8:36:48 AM PDT by TexasRepublic
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To: Billthedrill
Perhaps a vigorous, grass-roots publicity campaign on the line of "we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it any more" might bear fruit?

The problem is the current Labour government has a history of ignoring even the largest and best planned campaigns and marches. Look how much notice they took of the countryside alliance march last year and the "stop the war" march, which incidentally was the largest march in British history, (not that I agree with the latter of course).

Even the British Conservative party are soft on criminals and hostile to empowering the public to use realistic force (and certainly not armed force) to stop criminals. The establishment of a high profile vigilante like organisation would send a message to the government, and the Torys, that either the state must solve this problem or victims will band together in groups and take the law into their own hands. Such an organisation would have the added benefit of keeping this issue in the public eye and stopping it from just disappearing once the Martin fiasco stops making headlines.

37 posted on 08/01/2003 12:26:26 PM PDT by David Hunter
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