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Boy Scouts' use of Balboa Park land ruled unconstitutional
San Diego Union-Tribune ^ | 7/31/03 | Ray Huard

Posted on 07/31/2003 11:22:36 PM PDT by lowbridge

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To: Jeff Chandler
Let me get this straight ,theBoy Scouts are getting kicked out of the park because they are considered religious and are violating the nonexistent constitutional separation of church and state ,well since they are now considered a religious institution I guess they can sue for being discriminated against and having their right to practice their religion as guaranteed by the constitution .
51 posted on 08/01/2003 4:03:14 AM PDT by ballplayer
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To: lowbridge
"Welcome to Amerika, Christian bastards not welcome."
52 posted on 08/01/2003 4:14:40 AM PDT by PatrioticAmerican (Helping Mexicans invade America is TREASON!)
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To: lowbridge
Since when does a religious association be grounds to deny public leases? This should go to the USSC.
53 posted on 08/01/2003 4:15:23 AM PDT by PatrioticAmerican (Helping Mexicans invade America is TREASON!)
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To: newzjunkey
"Under terms of the lease, the Scouts must spend $1.7 million over the next seven years to upgrade Camp Balboa.
The Scouts also are required to pay the city an annual administrative fee initially set at $2,500.
The council used its own money to construct and maintain Camp Balboa, according to the release,
building nine camp sites, bringing water and power to the property, and building a swimming pool,
parking lot, restroom and showers, meeting rooms, and a residence and office for a camp ranger."

How do you equate this with a "sweetheart deal"???

I was a boy scout, and there was never a pledge to any religion.
We had scouts that were Christian, we had scouts that were Jewish, and we probably had scouts that were nothing.
Thats not what I would call "Christian right"

The scout oath has nothing more then the words that are printed on every dollar bill,
"In God we trust"

Do you REALLY have such a problem with this??






54 posted on 08/01/2003 4:54:19 AM PDT by AlexW
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To: pram
What if a S&M leather transsexual atheist group wanted to use the park?

Have you wigged out?

Of course this diversity group would be permitted use of the park forever. Judge Twinky Jones must be allowed to participate in the activities, however.

The local ACLU chapter are already members.

55 posted on 08/01/2003 5:02:05 AM PDT by JesseHousman
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To: lowbridge
Is this right ? The state cannot lease property to someone who professes a belief in God ?
56 posted on 08/01/2003 5:06:55 AM PDT by VRWC_minion (Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and most are right)
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To: lowbridge
One more thing, if its truly a religious organization the scout masters should now be able to have a tax free housing allowance and the dues payments by individual scouts should be a charitable deduction.
57 posted on 08/01/2003 5:09:42 AM PDT by VRWC_minion (Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and most are right)
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To: Southack
How much longer before people within religious organizations are disbarred use of all other public lands?

...like public roads?
58 posted on 08/01/2003 5:11:26 AM PDT by Maelstrom (To prevent misinterpretation or abuse of the Constitution:The Bill of Rights limits government power)
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To: newzjunkey
The Scouts aren't paying fair market value

Making 1.7 million in improvments, plus the intangibles that Scouts provide like stewardship of the premises etc ? Would another tenant have a constant supply of eagle scouts doing improvements ? Would another tenant have on site scout masters and rangers policing the premises ? Have you factored in the costs of these into your calculation of arms length lease value ?

59 posted on 08/01/2003 5:14:33 AM PDT by VRWC_minion (Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and most are right)
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To: lowbridge
Let's see what is really happening.

1) According to our current government leaders islam is a religion of peace. Simply because they murdered 3000 Americans on 9/11 is not relevant.

2) The Boy Scouts are wrong because they believe in God and don't believe that queers should be Scout Masters.

We conservatives elected these people????

Get a gun. You are going to need it sooner than later.


Eaker

60 posted on 08/01/2003 5:19:55 AM PDT by Eaker (This is OUR country; let's take it back!!!!!)
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To: newzjunkey
You obviously have little understanding of the Scout Program.....The Scout program has Muslim, Hindu, Jewish Catholic, Baptist, Protetstant groups for chartered suppport organizations...Churches, synagoges, mosques etc.

Scouts are of all religions backgrounds, beliefs and enthnicity....

The sweetheart deal you referenced is not for the Scouts, but for the city....The Scouts took raw uniproved city land and built a fully functioning camp...The Scouts were to improve the campsite at their material cost of $1.7 Million of the next couple of years which does not take into account the thousands of volunteer hours poured in by parents and scouts toward the projects goal....

The Scout organization DOES NOT require adherence to a specific God just that each Scout/Leader have a general belief system.

It will not allow homosexuals into an all-boy/male organization. This is freedom of association.... a basic tenet of our constitution....There is no discrimination based on race, religion, color or creed.....

NeverGore
61 posted on 08/01/2003 5:23:25 AM PDT by nevergore (Please return your seat trays and seat backs to their full and upright position....)
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To: geros
His parents, who migrated from the south looking for a better life for their children, were God fearing people.

Was the way they raised their son the reason why they feared God?

I don't fear God. He and I talk. (mostly me)


Eaker

62 posted on 08/01/2003 5:24:26 AM PDT by Eaker (This is OUR country; let's take it back!!!!!)
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To: lowbridge
By this judges reasoning...

Then all religious Parades should be banned because of separation of religion.
63 posted on 08/01/2003 5:28:06 AM PDT by vannrox (The Preamble to the Bill of Rights - without it, our Bill of Rights is meaningless!)
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To: friendly
I thought Napoleon Jones was the head pig in George Orwell's Animal House

Some fraternities are more equal than others.

64 posted on 08/01/2003 5:30:21 AM PDT by Sloth ("I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!" -- Jacobim Mugatu, 'Zoolander')
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To: newzjunkey
pet organizations

So the Boy Scouts are a pet organization? Nothing more?

You still have time to ask the Admin Mod to pull your post. If you don't then you have lost all credibility and will be known as a Clinton supporting fag sympathizer.

Everything that you do to support Queer Nation, puts a little boy closer to a campout / sleepfest with a sodomite.

I am not trying to be harsh, but if it walks like a duck............


Eaker

65 posted on 08/01/2003 5:36:25 AM PDT by Eaker (This is OUR country; let's take it back!!!!!)
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To: lowbridge
Jones said the Boy Scouts are a religious organization because the Scouts require members to profess a belief in God.

Is it time yet to have all candidates for judges to pass an IQ test?
I suppose that goes for legislators too.

Does no one wonder any more why some positions have minimum requirements?

Everyone who says the Pledge of Allegiance professes a belief in God.
I suspect many many more are saying it with feeling now than 2 years ago.
Where is this going?

I know I know... the perverts thing again in a different crossdress...

66 posted on 08/01/2003 5:42:25 AM PDT by Publius6961 (Californians are as dumm as a sack of rocks)
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To: jwalsh07
Justice Jones also violates the doctrine of separation of head and asshole.

Dear admin,
Please consider allowing this statement to remain.

There are some circumstances where forbidden words are the perfect way to verbalize a deep felt outrage. And the circumstances scream for it in this case.

67 posted on 08/01/2003 5:46:10 AM PDT by Publius6961 (Californians are as dumm as a sack of rocks)
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To: newzjunkey
It should've been put up for a *fair* bidding competion and wasn't.

Let's see if I have this right. Following your brainless version of "fairness", if NAMBLA had outbid the Scouts, it serves the "greater good" to give them the lease?

I can't believe that enough tax-paying adults can't figure out that this "gift" of public facilities serves a real, long-standing and universal good, as many other forms do.
"Bidding" under those circumstances is really confounding the means with the ends.

68 posted on 08/01/2003 5:53:40 AM PDT by Publius6961 (Californians are as dumm as a sack of rocks)
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To: newzjunkey
Government is of *ALL* the People, not just the Christian Right and their pet organizations. Sorry.

I'm sorry too, Bruce, but subject to clear limitations anyone can read, the majority get to decide the rules.

Imaginary "hurt feelings" is not one of the protections in the Constitution.

69 posted on 08/01/2003 5:57:43 AM PDT by Publius6961 (Californians are as dumm as a sack of rocks)
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To: Glenn
That will fizzle in no time, I think.

Dream on (I think).
You sure sound confused.

70 posted on 08/01/2003 6:00:02 AM PDT by Publius6961 (Californians are as dumm as a sack of rocks)
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To: lowbridge
To see if your UW is on the "Watch List," check: www.defendscouting.com

Local Council addresses can be gotten at: http://www.scouting.org/councils/index.html - HERE.

71 posted on 08/01/2003 6:02:08 AM PDT by Ed_in_NJ
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To: ppaul; GrandMoM; backhoe; Yehuda; Clint N. Suhks; saradippity; stage left; Yakboy; ...
Thanks for the ping.

Homosexual Agenda Index
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72 posted on 08/01/2003 6:29:50 AM PDT by scripter (Thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle.)
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To: newzjunkey
Yeah! You tell them! God forbid (oops... did I say 'God'? My apologies for offending your delicate sensibilities) that they choose to lease the land to an organization that will actually develop it, provide facilities, and manage it all with their own money for the greater good of *ALL*, including those who don't believe in a 'god'...


I mean, that has to be right up there on the list of all-time boneheaded moves that a governmental entity could make. I doubt we will ever recover from the societal damage caused by such a grave injustice. Just what in the Hel;l were those city officials thinking? We should burn them at the stake. Who's with me?

(That was sarcasm, in case you hadn't guessed)
73 posted on 08/01/2003 6:33:03 AM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (So, I'm in the park wondering why frisbees get larger as they get closer when suddenly, it hits me..)
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To: Consort
Time for a new revolution.
74 posted on 08/01/2003 6:35:04 AM PDT by DEPUTYMAYTAG (o)
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To: newzjunkey
Well, coming from a butt pirate such as yourself, it is no surprise you are against the Scouts. Your posts always display weakness.
75 posted on 08/01/2003 6:41:08 AM PDT by ohioman
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To: lowbridge
The Caliban strikes agaon!
76 posted on 08/01/2003 6:47:55 AM PDT by sheik yerbouty
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To: Lancey Howard
From now on, should there ever again be a Democrat President and a Democrat Senate, liberal mice like Jones will simply be filibustered.

Never happen. The Republicans don't have the balls to pull off something like this when they are the majority, and certainly not if they revert to a minority status. Factor in the howls of indignation that would be raised in the press and anyone with an (R) following his name would slink away from a filibuster while offering up tearful apologies to every Dem within earshot.

77 posted on 08/01/2003 7:16:11 AM PDT by Denver Ditdat
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To: lowbridge

From his Bio:

(Judge Jones) advises those aspiring to be lawyers or judges to be prepared "to work for it." In particular, Judge Jones emphasizes the importance of developing reading, writing and comprehension skills.

Such sage advice. If you want to be a Judge you need to learn to read and write. Who would have thunk it?

78 posted on 08/01/2003 7:22:48 AM PDT by Michael.SF. ("Bush is not like Clinton. I think this may be the end" - Q. Hussein)
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To: yankeedame
Napoleon Jones?? Why does that immediately conjure up an image of an ante bellum house slave? You know, long time family retainer, touch of grey,... "Now, Napoleon, when the guests arrive be sure and announce them formal like." "Yes,'um. I knowed my duties." Napoleon Jones. No wonder he's got that chip on his shoulder.

Hilarious!

79 posted on 08/01/2003 7:23:14 AM PDT by O.C. - Old Cracker
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To: Southflanknorthpawsis; onyx
FYI
80 posted on 08/01/2003 7:25:01 AM PDT by Scenic Sounds (Next year, the President will be re-elected but good!)
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To: jagrmeister
{The left-wing assault on the Boy Scouts should be used as a political issue to damage the Democrat party. It's a case where Democrats are taking direction from extreme elements of their party against common sense and against a group, the Boy Scouts...Is there anything crueler than a band of hate-mongering left-wing lawyers trying to make life difficult for some well-meaning kids?}

Well stated. Last year, Sen. Saxby Chambliss beat Max Cleland over the head with this issue. Cleland the so-called "war hero", rightfully lost. If the RATS attempt to brand the Pubbies as "homophobic" for opposing gay marriage, we should highlight how the RATS hate the Boy Scouts.
81 posted on 08/01/2003 7:25:33 AM PDT by Kuksool
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To: lowbridge
With all of the scumbags that hang out in Balboa park, maybe the scouts are better off moving. Let them relocate at MCRD.
82 posted on 08/01/2003 7:27:25 AM PDT by TankerKC (If corn oil comes from corn, where does baby oil come from?)
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To: yankeedame
Thank you for that post. It just laughed out loud here in my cubicle. Glad I didn't have a mouthful of coffee.
83 posted on 08/01/2003 7:27:45 AM PDT by Skooz (Tagline removed by moderator)
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To: lowbridge
Wait just a cotton-pickin minute here. Here in Iowa we have the Corps of Engineers leasing a camp to a bunch of Muslims.

The ICLU has been begged to get involved but they don't see a problem.

Liars and hypocrits!!!

84 posted on 08/01/2003 7:27:48 AM PDT by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: newzjunkey
I have no problem with this slap down. I don't particularly care for the BSOA program nor this sort of gov't welfare or wink-wink endorsement of a particular set of faith-based values which are imposed upon the membership and the staff: must believe in God, must not be homosexual, etc.

Sounds like someone with a heavy burden and an axe to grind against his/her Creator.

85 posted on 08/01/2003 7:29:00 AM PDT by O.C. - Old Cracker
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To: lowbridge
You can't have boy scouts on public land, but you can fund a school for 100 gay students. Hmm.
86 posted on 08/01/2003 7:30:24 AM PDT by Hildy
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To: geros
Judge Jones...was inspired to become a lawyer after observing and experiencing many injustices. Based on those experiences, he was motivated to seek out a profession where he could help others and pursue justice. Judge Jones believes that the greatest benefit of being a judge is creating an atmosphere where justice can be pursued.

His motivations aren't in question, they are boldly stated in his bio and in his ruling. He wants to use his power to seek his kind of justice. The retroactive, payback kind of justice.
87 posted on 08/01/2003 7:31:46 AM PDT by just mimi (just spouting off, I could be wrong...)
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To: VRWC_minion
One more thing, if its truly a religious organization the scout masters should now be able to have a tax free housing allowance and the dues payments by individual scouts should be a charitable deduction.

A most excellent point.

Now, Napoleon, the Congress has a chaplain and opens with a prayer do they not? Bill Clinton was quick to rush to the local 'hood black church whenever he got caught with his hand in the till, so to speak.

So, by your logic, are the Congress and Bill Clinton unconstitutional?

I am sorry, but Nappy Jones is a damn fool, and is not looking like a role model for black judicial candidates.

88 posted on 08/01/2003 7:38:34 AM PDT by SpinyNorman
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma
The ACLU believes in a separation of Church & State, but not in a separation of Mosque and State.
89 posted on 08/01/2003 7:42:02 AM PDT by Kuksool
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To: Kuksool
we should highlight how the RATS hate the Boy Scouts.

What are you talking about? They didn't boo them at the Democratic convention or anything like that.

90 posted on 08/01/2003 7:42:02 AM PDT by Skooz (Tagline removed by moderator)
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To: pram
If the Teamsters were involved, they'd be driving tractor-trailers around the Judge's block 24/7 until he changed his opinion.
91 posted on 08/01/2003 7:47:07 AM PDT by Iconoclast2
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To: Michael.SF.
Welllllll, he said it was important, not mandatory. Still an out for the affirmative-action folk.
92 posted on 08/01/2003 7:52:25 AM PDT by CounterCounterCulture (IRRESPONSIBILITY: No single raindrop believes it is to blame for the flood)
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To: Skooz
{They didn't boo them at the Democratic convention or anything like that.}

LOL! At the 2000 Democratic Convention, the CA delegates booed the Boy Scouts with great glee. Now a CA Judge rules against the BSA. CA liberals have declared a Jihad against the BSA.
93 posted on 08/01/2003 7:53:38 AM PDT by Kuksool
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To: friendly
No law degree?
94 posted on 08/01/2003 7:57:28 AM PDT by Rummyfan
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To: friendly
In 1994, he was appointed by President Clinton to the United States District Court for the Southern District of California.

...An Cl*nton s%*t...no wonder.

95 posted on 08/01/2003 8:08:02 AM PDT by skinkinthegrass (Just because you're paranoid,doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. :)
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To: newzjunkey
your prime DU material...think,slap,think,slap,slap,think.
96 posted on 08/01/2003 8:18:04 AM PDT by skinkinthegrass (Just because you're paranoid,doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. :)
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To: swilhelm73
The war is about to start.
97 posted on 08/01/2003 8:24:48 AM PDT by Jimbaugh (They will not get away with this. Developing . . . . .)
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To: Publius6961
Aren't members of NAMBLA "boy scouts?"
98 posted on 08/01/2003 8:58:41 AM PDT by arasina (click here ---no, wait a minute---DON'T!)
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To: lowbridge
The California highway system is a benefit paid for by the citizens of California and managed by the state. Based on this decision shouldn't they have to keep any one with a religious belief off the highways?

Taken to it's natural conclusion I would think that people of any faith would need to be evicted from the state of California or at least put in to concentration camps where they can been reeducated.

No, I'm not being facetious. That must be the result of these types of rulings. Either members of a religion can use public resources or they can’t. There is no middle ground.

It seems to me that California has decided to delineate between accepted and disapproved groups as far as whether or not they can use public resources. Which in it’s self is reasonable. The state should be able to discourage those activities that are widely believed to be profane. Spatula manufacture conventions and Frisbee golf patrons are allowed to use public land but NAMBLA is not, for instance.

But the state, in this ruling, is clearly asserting that the belief in a religion is to be publicly discouraged.

If I lived in California I would be outraged. horse-pucky - I’m outraged anyway.

(I’m not saying that Frisbee golf isn’t profane)

99 posted on 08/01/2003 9:01:09 AM PDT by avg_freeper (Gunga galunga. Gunga, gunga galunga)
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To: lowbridge
Judge NAPOLEAN Jones??? Judge NAPOLEAN Jones????


HAAAHAAAAHAAAAA!!!

Once again, liberal local courts are exercising judicial nullification of statutes and Federal Court decisions with which they disagee. I guess Judge NAPOLEAN Jones disapproves of weeding ceromonies in Balboa Park, performed by a Clergyman.

My guess is NAPOLEAN Jones is part of the Lavender Mafia, or one of their sympathizers. The overwhelming majority of normal Americans have really degenerated into a mass of gutless wimps to allow this kind of outrage and take this kind of bull sitting down.
100 posted on 08/01/2003 9:03:24 AM PDT by ZULU
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